[Suggestion] - Posting restriction for users wearing signature below Member rank

[Alone055]

Let me know if this has already been suggested or discussed and I will lock the thread immediately.

We all know that a very large number of spam in every section of the forum comes from users below Member rank, and the reason for that is mainly because they are participating in Signature Campaigns and they need to reach the threshold offered by the campaign to get their payment.
To reduce that, I suggest that any user, below Member rank, should be restricted from posting outsite the Bounties (Altcoins) sections if they are wearing a signature. They can still post freely in any section they want if they are not wearing a signature on them.
This would not bother any user with a low rank but constructive thoughts as they can still share their opinions with the community without any problem, and if they want to join a signature campaign, they will have to earn at least 10 Merits to reach Member rank and then they can wear a signature and post constructively to get paid for it.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

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[hilariousandco]

Restricting signatures to certain ranks has been requested before in various formats, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Juniors should require a minimum merit achievement of at least one merit and I think signatures should only be available to Members and above. Ten merit and being here two months isn't much to ask. Legions of bot armies are managing to get themself onto campaigns which are all too happy to pay them and this will never stop as long as all you need is 30 activity to become a Junior which bots can easily get.

[Alone055]

Restricting signatures to certain ranks has been requested before in various formats, but I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Thank You.

Juniors should require a minimum merit achievement of at least one merit and I think signatures should only be available to Members and above. Ten merit and being here two months isn't much to ask.

Exactly. If you wear a signature and you are not a Member yet, you will not be able to post anything outside the Bounties (Altcoins) section. Now, no signature campaign would pay anyone for just posting in that section, even better, campaigns don't pay for posts in Bounty threads. So that can also be the end of a very large signature spamming army.

Legions of bot armies are managing to get themself onto campaigns which are all too happy to pay them and this will never stop as long as all you need is 30 activity to become a Junior which bots can easily get.

That is the point. These bots that are posting off-topic replies in every section these days only to get activity points and reach Jr. member would not be able to do it anymore. Even if they manage to reach Jr. member by posting in Bounties (Altcoins) section, that won't be of use as they would not be able to post outside if they join a Signature Campaign.

[The Cryptovator]

It was discussed many time on the forum. Still admin not respons. It's better read some post before make new thread on any section. Or use search button. Few list are below, lock the thread and let's discuss on existing thread.

1) 1 Merit to become junior member and access to bounties sub

2) Disable signatures/bounties til a user reaches full member status.

3) Disable sign. camp. officially to prevent spam & know true value of merit system

4) Theymos help us fight against scam ICO's

5) Require a small amount of merit to become a Junior Member

[Alone055]

It was discussed many time on the forum. Still admin not respons. It's better read some post before make new thread on any section. Or use search button. Few list are below, lock the thread and let's discuss on existing thread.

1) 1 Merit to become junior member and access to bounties sub

2) Disable signatures/bounties til a user reaches full member status.

3) Disable sign. camp. officially to prevent spam & know true value of merit system

The topic you posted discusses something totally different than what I've suggested here. And I do check the most recent posts all the time before I post something, and I have been doing that for quite a lot of time, and that is why I said If I have missed it, then please refer me to it, but what you are referring me to is not relevant to this.

My suggestion is to restrict users below Member rank from posting outside the Bounties sub-board if they are wearing signatures.

And what that topic suggests to is to restrict newbies from accessing Bounties sub-board if they don't earn at least one Merit, or only users above Jr. members could access Bounties sub-board and it should require at least 1 Merit to reach Jr. member.

How on earth do these two points seem similar to you?

Edit: None of the threads you referred have discussed the exact same point that I'm suggesting here.

[hilariousetc]

It was discussed many time on the forum. Still admin not respons. It's better read some post before make new thread on any section. Or use search button. Few list are below, lock the thread and let's discuss on existing thread.

1) 1 Merit to become junior member and access to bounties sub

2) Disable signatures/bounties til a user reaches full member status.

3) Disable sign. camp. officially to prevent spam & know true value of merit system

Don't forget my one as well:

Require a small amount of merit to become a Junior Member

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4654923.msg42027113#msg42027113

It's very difficult to search for these threads anyway because typing in 'junior' will just bring up loads of random things.

The topic you posted discusses something totally different than what I've suggested here. And I do check the most recent posts all the time before I post something, and I have been doing that for quite a lot of time, and that is why I said If I have missed it, then please refer me to it, but what you are referring me to is not relevant to this.

My suggestion is to restrict users below Member rank from posting outside the Bounties sub-board if they are wearing signatures.

And what that topic suggests to is to restrict newbies from accessing Bounties sub-board if they don't earn at least one Merit, or only users above Jr. members could access Bounties sub-board and it should require at least 1 Merit to reach Jr. member.

How on earth do these two points seem similar to you?

Edit: None of the threads you referred have discussed the exact same point that I'm suggesting here.

Semantics, but I don't think allowing Juniors to have a signature only outside certain boards will solve anything. They either need to be there or not. Campaigns will still pay for them if so or just tell them to post in boards where they show. They need to have their hand forced not to accept them and this will only happen if the signatures are removed completely from lower ranks. They can still purchase a Copper Membership or a higher donator rank if implemented so it isn't that restrictive either.  

[pugman]

My suggestion is to restrict users below Member rank from posting outside the Bounties sub-board if they are wearing signatures.

How will they wear signatures if they can't access the bounties board.

We have a little bigger issue here, bots spreading malware, bots getting paid 1000$ for bumping ANN threads,  and other things.

What you're suggesting here, has been suggested before, but with little tweaks to it. What they have said is, just remove the ability to wear signature for users under Member rank. But theymos wouldn't implement it, there are legitimate reasons to wear a signature:

I'm using the maximum length for a Newbie signature, and I wouldn't want to lose it.
As much as I hate spam, restricting legit users isn't the right solution. I'd like to see spam banned faster, especially the army of useless "great project" posters in the altcoin section.

[morvillz7z]

We have a little bigger issue here, bots spreading malware, bots getting paid 1000$ for bumping ANN threads,  and other things.

I was wondering whether or not bots can bypass custom CAPTCHA like:

Code:

10*3-17+4=?

or

Code:

h2o = ?

[r1s2g3]

Let me know if this has already been suggested or discussed and I will lock the thread immediately.

To reduce that, I suggest that any user, below Member rank, should be restricted from posting outsite the Bounties (Altcoins) sections if they are wearing a signature. They can still post freely in any section they want if they are not wearing a signature on them.

I do not think you brainstormed your idea properly. If Jr. Member is wearing signature is not able to post outside signature then what happen to Jr. Member post that is posted without signature and afterward user start using signature.  Would you delete those post then ?

Actually I feel correct solution is to increase Merit requirement to 10 merits for Jr. and 50 for the member.

It is really annoying to see such kind of topics
Need Help! Jr. Member
change to JR member
Activity 30 Rank newbie

They are  literally farming activities to become Jr. Member without taking part in any sensible discussion. Only motto to join this forum is to promote spam (bounties) and so impatient to become Jr. Member that they do not wait for couple of hours more for forum software to update their rank from newbie to Jr. Member.

On a contrary , I will like to suggest to disable signature of all users, who farmed 30 activity without getting a single Merit.
I believe , spam should be discouraged from all ranks, though percentage of people in other ranks are less but why should we read anybody's spam post?

[TryNinja]

I was wondering whether or not bots can bypass custom CAPTCHA like:

Code:

10*3-17+4=?

or

Code:

h2o = ?

Much more easily than the currently used reCAPTCHA. Maybe it could help if we start using this kind of simple captchas to post while keeping the Google one to log in... But still, it's easily bypassed.

[Makkara]

A part the fact that was proposed before, or at least in a similar way. Let's be serious for a moment and let's just stop talking about specific rank, because a legendary which didn't get any merit so far is not any better than the new people coming in staying at 0 merit. So any restrictions should apply to everyone.

[mobilazy]

Since Jr. Member doesn't need any merit it's obvious that someone will exploit it. Bots are one of the examples. We either need to restrict signatures or/and add merit requirement for Jr. Members. I can see the most of the bounty participants are Jr. Members.

[Alone055]

How will they wear signatures if they can't access the bounties board.

"should be restricted from posting outside the Bounties (Altcoins) section" is what I said. That means they can access the bounties board, but they cannot access any boards other than that if they wear a signature until they earn 10 Merits and reach Member rank.

We have a little bigger issue here, bots spreading malware, bots getting paid 1000$ for bumping ANN threads,  and other things.

I know, and I never said anything about ignoring them, but that doesn't mean we should put aside another noticeable issue only because there are other issues. We can think of solving them all, one by one. And I have just suggested something that can be implemented for a change.

What you're suggesting here, has been suggested before, but with little tweaks to it. What they have said is, just remove the ability to wear signature for users under Member rank.

Either remove their ability to wear signature, or restrict them from posting if they wear them before a certain rank, both of these will probably reduce the spam to a very large extent.

But theymos wouldn't implement it, there are legitimate reasons to wear a signature:

I'm using the maximum length for a Newbie signature, and I wouldn't want to lose it.
As much as I hate spam, restricting legit users isn't the right solution. I'd like to see spam banned faster, especially the army of useless "great project" posters in the altcoin section.

We cannot leave 96% of the accounts to do whatever they want only because 4% of them are legitimate and doesn't deserve that. Besides, such legitimate users should not have any problems earning 10 Merits to get their restrictions lifted. It is not that difficult if you are actually legitimate and not here only for bounty hunting and you know the basic rules of the forum and posting.

I do not think you brainstormed your idea properly. If Jr. Member is wearing signature is not able to post outside signature then what happen to Jr. Member post that is posted without signature and afterward user start using signature.  Would you delete those post then ?

No deletion is required. The posts in history of an account are not counted for a signature campaign. So a signature campaign would not pay a user for first posting and then wearing the signature later on. The posts he made would most likely disappear and no one would see them, and the primary purpose of running a signature campaign is to promote the project, not just to make it visible on an account for a while.

Actually I feel correct solution is to increase Merit requirement to 10 merits for Jr. and 50 for the member.

Whether they earn 10 Merits and become Jr. member and then join signature campaigns, or earn 10 Merits to become Member and do that, it is all the same. And I think 50 Merits to reach Member rank is a lot to ask.

I believe , spam should be discouraged from all ranks, though percentage of people in other ranks are less but why should we read anybody's spam post?

....a legendary which didn't get any merit so far is not any better than the new people coming in staying at 0 merit. So any restrictions should apply to everyone.

Restricting all ranks from wearing signature is also a good suggestion. If a user does not get at least 1 Merit from the last 30-50 posts he made, he should not be able to wear a signature. His signature should only be enabled again if he manages to earn 1 Merit, and then again if he doesn't earn 1 within that range, it should get disabled again.

[pugman]

"should be restricted from posting outside the Bounties (Altcoins) section" is what I said. That means they can access the bounties board, but they cannot access any boards other than that if they wear a signature until they earn 10 Merits and reach Member rank.

Then you're rephrasing(unintentionally) what theymos already plans on doing or has just envisioned it:

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

Either remove their ability to wear signature, or restrict them from posting if they wear them before a certain rank, both of these will probably reduce the spam to a very large extent.

It would reduce spam, people will come up with something else to make things here ,a virtual nightmare.

We cannot leave 96% of the accounts to do whatever they want only because 4% of them are legitimate and doesn't deserve that. Besides, such legitimate users should not have any problems earning 10 Merits to get their restrictions lifted. It is not that difficult if you are actually legitimate and not here only for bounty hunting and you know the basic rules of the forum and posting.

And I wish you all the best luck for convincing theymos. Its not going to be easy, I can tell you that.

[Alone055]

Then you're rephrasing(unintentionally) what theymos already plans on doing or has just envisioned it:

What do the people who operate these bounties think of the newbie invasion? Also, people should not be required to post in order to get paid; that's already against the rules.

An idea I had in this vein was that upon registration you'd have to pick one of two paths:
 - "I want to discuss things"
     = Banned from all money-making/spam-hotbed sections until Jr Member
 - "I want to make money"
     = Banned from the more serious sections until Jr Member
     = You have to pass a quiz before posting which tries to inform you about basic forum rules, how not to get banned, maybe some basic English knowledge, etc. (Quizzes are pointless to stop dedicated spammers, since an answer key will quickly be compiled, but it may help in cases where clueless people are ending up here.)

I have missed that post of theymos, obviously. That is exactly what I want to be implemented, except that I want the restriction to be applied for Jr. members as well while theymos in that post have mentioned that their ban would be lifted once they reach Jr. member. I believe there are hundreds of Jr. members spamming the forum like hell these days, and that is what made me suggest this change.

people will come up with something else to make things here ,a virtual nightmare.

We'll tackle that too, but let us tackle this one first, and then we will see what they come up with, and hopefully there will be a solution for that as well.

I wish you all the best luck for convincing theymos. Its not going to be easy, I can tell you that.

God, I know it isn't. But I just couldn't help it. He should not leave the forum to bleed only because a few positive users might get a negative effect from this. Those legitimate users would probably find their way to the other side, but this whole lot of spammers would die inside that circle, and that would probably bring some positive energy to the forum.

[TheUltraElite]

God, I know it isn't. But I just couldn't help it. He should not leave the forum to bleed only because a few positive users might get a negative effect from this. Those legitimate users would probably find their way to the other side, but this whole lot of spammers would die inside that circle, and that would probably bring some positive energy to the forum.

Many legitimate users have "left" this forum in terms of hacked accounts, by scamming someone or simply went AWOL. What is left must be preserved and I believe continuous scrutiny of post quality of such members is necessary to reduce spam and increase quality discussions.

But what is the role of the campaign manager then? If they accept such users in campaigns then nothing can be done to stop them from shitposting. Hence both the manager and the mods of the forum need to monitor them for such shitposting spree.

Literally speaking once they spam - they will eventually get banned and then make another account - by whatever method and start a new journey on bitcointalk. That is where merit stops them from ranking up and the same thing repeats. Ultimately they will get tired and frustrated and then leave the forum.

[Alone055]

Ultimately they will get tired and frustrated and then leave the forum.

That ultimate process would take a very long time and would cost a lot of damage to the forum. Besides, I don't think they would get tired as long as they are free to farm enough activities to reach Jr. member and then start spitting garbage out of their mouths to earn a few bucks. That is what they are here for, and that is what they will keep doing for years unless they are restricted from the very beginning from this until they behave themselves.

[pugman]

I have missed that post of theymos, obviously. That is exactly what I want to be implemented, except that I want the restriction to be applied for Jr. members as well while theymos in that post have mentioned that their ban would be lifted once they reach Jr. member. I believe there are hundreds of Jr. members spamming the forum like hell these days, and that is what made me suggest this change.

theymos doesn't like restrictions, he had them implemented before(newbie jail), and it was a fail(?). This is his saying on what he thinks on implementing restrictions:

The things on the forum which encourage spam are allowed mainly because it's part of the forum's mission to be as free as possible. Eg. banning bounties would undoubtedly reduce spam, but that'd be destroying an entire economy/population/culture which has been able to develop due to the forum's freedom. I am willing to take this sort of action, but only as an absolute last resort. It's always preferable to handle these problems by reshaping the environment to make them non-problems, rather than removing some freedom.

It's wonderful when someone is able to constructively do something on the forum instead of continuing with whatever they were expected to do under the status quo. Enabling that sort of thing is exactly why Bitcoin and this forum were created. Though bitcointalk.org is not a worldwide welfare organization, and people are not entitled to make money.

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

The low signal-to-noise is a real issue which seriously annoys me and is often on my mind. But as you mention, fixing it non-destructively is difficult.

We'll tackle that too, but let us tackle this one first, and then we will see what they come up with, and hopefully there will be a solution for that as well.

I love this spirit of yours, but theymos literally has no time to solve all this issues. Apparently, a single account recovery takes a lot of time, in investigation and what you're talking about are much bigger issues.

Thing is, this is the internet, spam rules over everything else. Only way to combat spam is to have very strict moderation, have mods patrolling through 24/7 and that also doesn't guarantee that there'd be no spam. People are selling services like ANN bumping, hacked accounts, autoreply bots off-forum, and it makes it much harder for the forum to know who uses these. When cloudfare was integrated, the bots that mods used to use became obsolete, so we thought that might be the end of bots, but we were wrong. Cloudfare doesn't block the bots that only spams.

God, I know it isn't. But I just couldn't help it. He should not leave the forum to bleed only because a few positive users might get a negative effect from this. Those legitimate users would probably find their way to the other side, but this whole lot of spammers would die inside that circle, and that would probably bring some positive energy to the forum.

I get your frustration, but you'll get used to it, like it or not. hilariousandco knows the pain on this, more than anyone else, he's trying so hard, even after knowing that he gets ignored every single time.

Many legitimate users have "left" this forum in terms of hacked accounts, by scamming someone or simply went AWOL. What is left must be preserved and I believe continuous scrutiny of post quality of such members is necessary to reduce spam and increase quality discussions.

But what is the role of the campaign manager then? If they accept such users in campaigns then nothing can be done to stop them from shitposting. Hence both the manager and the mods of the forum need to monitor them for such shitposting spree.

Literally speaking once they spam - they will eventually get banned and then make another account - by whatever method and start a new journey on bitcointalk. That is where merit stops them from ranking up and the same thing repeats. Ultimately they will get tired and frustrated and then leave the forum.

Legit users left only because of the spam or because of their big con attempt, along side, the lack of responsiveness from the administration. Even BadBear left. 

And spammers never get frustrated. They come up with something , always. One or two might give up, but there are hundreds of thousands of them that are still left.

About campaign managers allowing shitposters, they aren't campaign mangers. They don't deserve that title. Its about time, that theymos gives a guideline on how to manage campaigns/bounties.