[GOX] Crime Scene Investigation, Case #MG744

[ifritsultan]

Today I have written two letters to both of the defending attorneys of Mt.Gox and i would really like you to do the same.
They must nur neglect their duty to answer you general questions about the Mt.Gox-case, i.e. whether there was already some offcial claim at Japanese authorities or not.

I totally admit, that we have to make sure, that some offcials are already involved, since concerning the lies Karpeles is only amenable to law not to us (the community) and he can simply proceed lying to people as long as they are no official persons of Japanese law.

Have you written these letter in Japanese? Are you a native speaker?

Nope, I am not. My aunt and my uncle are. They both are living in Tokyo, but I doubt, that they have ever heard about BTC, despite maybe in the recent newspaper-history.
I wrote these letters to the Mt.Gox-lawyers, which have an English impressum and contact information on their website. So I must believe, that they are familiar to this language...

What is the difference between communities conspiracies and yours?

[1714021170]

1714021170

[Loozik]

What is the difference between communities conspiracies and yours?

1. Community conspiracy theories and non-conspiracy theories are all built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = TRUE


2. My conspiracy theory is built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = FALSE


__________________________________________________

People who create conspiracy theories are often described as fruitcakes. I think in most cases they are fruitcakes.

When you steal USD 5,000 you probably do not have to conspire. When you steal USD 5,000,000 you probably have to conspire with someone. When you steal USD 500,000,000 there is no way you can do it without conspiring with many people.

Mark Karpeles owning a gold egg laying goose, not willing to accept help from TBF-circle guys who wanted to make his exchange safer? Hackers stealing USD 500,000,000? Come on ...

[ifritsultan]

Well, it would make sence, if there were only few members in the TBF. But there is a whole pile of members and you really believe, none of them would get cold feet now and would bail out by now?

[Loozik]

Please remember, this is only a conspiracy theory. As most conspiracy theories this one is possibly incorrect.

This theory was created because:
- the official MtGox story is plain false in view of facts gathered so far
- the non-official story (Karpeles stole himself or allowed the hack to happen) repeated by some of TBF-circle guys is supported by an orgy of evidence (please see ''Minority report'' to know what I mean by an orgy of evidence) planted by TBF-circle guys themselves, created by them (irc chats between them and Mark -knowingly or unknowingly they themselves had created ''evidence'' that supports their present story) or planted by people they know.

Come one, someone had to sooner or later come up with a conspiracy story in which there are actors from TBF circles.

[ifritsultan]

True, but I doubt that would be able to plan such an amount of subtle details in the first place.
However, if this was really true and so many ppl were involved, there should be at least some coward, who ist fearfully observing the situation and who will bail out. Dont you think?

[Loozik]

True, but I doubt that would be able to plan such an amount of subtle details in the first place.

First of all, this is just a conspiracy theory (therefore I used no names). This theory is probably completely wrong.

You know what, if I were to steal 0.5 billion I would make sure there were many details and that they were subtle   although I wouldn't have been so stupid to have a recovery plan written by a five year old.

[ifritsultan]

Yap, but it was no 0.5billion one year before. This means, they must have started it with so much effort long before, where BTC were not worth so much USD.
On the other hand, if they prepared it only in the last year, why did we not recognize the sudden "dissappearing" of BTC in the blockchain?

[Loozik]

Yap, but it was no 0.5billion one year before. This means, they must have started it with so much effort long before.

Whether my conspiracy theory (with some of the TBF-circle guys being actors in it) is correct or incorrect, the collapse of Gox must have been planned long before.

How can this plan unfold? With ''there is a conflict of interest between TBF guys'' switched from TRUE to FALSE, you can expect that there will be attempt to help Mark Karpeles.

E.g. a story will be created that he was kidnapped or forced to give up private keys (he is French after all, you should expect a French to give up). A proof will be found to support this story (a number of prominent TBF-circle guys had already posted on dangers of being kidnapped and that they were working on a solution, etc.)

It will be fun to watch all this 

[ifritsultan]

(he is French after all, you should expect a French to give up)

Hahahaha, this at least has been proven several times 

However, with the recent new making such big rounds, it would be pretty unlikely but also frustrating, if no further revelations would follow.
At this point we can at least already say, that Mt.Gox was lying several times, as you already pointed out.

May I ask you a different question?
Have there been any news about the report of "cold wallets" after the DB-leak was published?
I mean, it is still unclear and maybe already forgotten, how    purportedly all bitcoins could simply "disappear" (as MtGox state that day) with the most of them laying on cold wallets... Are there any news, which I maybe missed at some point?

[renfr]

What is the difference between communities conspiracies and yours?

1. Community conspiracy theories and non-conspiracy theories are all built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = TRUE


2. My conspiracy theory is built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = FALSE


__________________________________________________

People who create conspiracy theories are often described as fruitcakes. I think in most cases they are fruitcakes.

When you steal USD 5,000 you probably do not have to conspire. When you steal USD 5,000,000 you probably have to conspire with someone. When you steal USD 500,000,000 there is no way you can do it without conspiring with many people.

Mark Karpeles owning a gold egg laying goose, not willing to accept help from TBF-circle guys who wanted to make his exchange safer? Hackers stealing USD 500,000,000? Come on ...

If you had 200 000 BTC on your own and had a successful growing business that makes around 50 000 BTC a year, why would you bother stealing 650 000 BTC from your own customers?
Is that really worth being hated by hundreds of thousands of creditors, pursued by many juridictions and probably chased down by some very angry customers? Don't think so.

This is why this theory isn't plausible, you'd have to be completely retarded to make such a heist.

[Loozik]

At this point we can at least already say, that Mt.Gox was lying several times, as you already pointed out.

That's why Karpeles should be questioned by the criminal police.

May I ask you a different question?
Have there been any news about the report of "cold wallets" after the DB-leak was published?
I mean, it is still unclear and maybe already forgotten, how    purportedly all bitcoins could simply "disappear" (as MtGox state that day) with the most of them laying on cold wallets... Are there any news, which I maybe missed at some point?

I know nothing about it.

[Loozik]

If you had 200 000 BTC on your own and had a successful growing business that makes around 50 000 BTC a year, why would you bother stealing 650 000 BTC from your own customers?
Is that really worth being hated by hundreds of thousands of creditors, pursued by many juridictions and probably chased down by some very angry customers? Don't think so.

If I had 200 000 BTC I wouldn't steal. Did Karpeles have 200 000 BTC?

This is why this theory isn't plausible, you'd have to be completely retarded to make such a heist.

My story is a fruitcake-type of conspiracy story. You would need to be retarded to believe it. The story was created simply by switching one parameter from true to false. You can create a number of such stories simply by switching values of certain parameters. You can easily come up with a fruitcake-type of story that the pope is satosi nakamoto himself.

But you would also need be retarded to believe MtGox story and the story told by other guys who support their stories by evidence either produced by themselves or released by themselves or released by their friends.

[V4Vendettas]

Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.

[darkmule]

This is why this theory isn't plausible, you'd have to be completely retarded to make such a heist.

You'd have to be completely retarded to run a "business" the way Gox was run even given their own story.  It's well established that Karpeles is completely retarded.  So the issue here isn't whether Mark Karpeles is the biggest fucking idiot in the history of fucking and of idiots, but whether he's also a crook.

[Armis]

Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.

hahahahaa  ...


dude, where have you been?  I thought for sure you would be one of the main investigators

[V4Vendettas]

Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.

hahahahaa  ...


dude, where have you been?  I thought for sure you would be one of the main investigators

Lol I have been trying to buy some mining hardware. Honestly have you been over there? Its like every company is manned by and army of cloned Marks its horrible.

I have been dropping in and out of threads and keeping any eye on some wallet movements, posting what they are doing but honestly feel a bit out of my depth. I'm still learning the basics of block-chain forensics.  In short seems like where ever you look if it had been near gox its just splitting all over the place into fresh wallets stopping then splitting again into more fresh wallets.

Also been looking into lawyers etc but what I think is really important for all of us right now while we can do nothing but watch the chain is finding ways to protect ourselves from Identity theft.

Lets face it gox is a mess and somewhere 0.5 mil of us have KYC docs and if mark cant set up cold storage for btc what kind of protection did he have in place for our docs?

Also trying to find a bridge to the right department out in Japan. I mean our boys here are great in number and picking apart any info they can get their hands on.. how do we get this data to them?  As yet not heard of anyone that's got a bridge up...anyone know of one ?

[Armis]

Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.

hahahahaa  ...


dude, where have you been?  I thought for sure you would be one of the main investigators

Lol I have been trying to buy some mining hardware. Honestly have you been over there? Its like every company is manned by and army of cloned Marks its horrible.

I have been dropping in and out of threads and keeping any eye on some wallet movements, posting what they are doing but honestly feel a bit out of my depth. I'm still learning the basics of block-chain forensics.  In short seems like where ever you look if it had been near gox its just splitting all over the place into fresh wallets stopping then splitting again into more fresh wallets.

Also been looking into lawyers etc but what I think is really important for all of us right now while we can do nothing but watch the chain is finding ways to protect ourselves from Identity theft.

Lets face it gox is a mess and somewhere 0.5 mil of us have KYC docs and if mark cant set up cold storage for btc what kind of protection did he have in place for our docs?

Also trying to find a bridge to the right department out in Japan. I mean our boys here are great in number and picking apart any info they can get their hands on.. how do we get this data to them?  As yet not heard of anyone that's got a bridge up...anyone know of one ?

every little bit counts, whatever you can do, in whatever capacity, some are looking at this or that, some are taking to him, her, or them, just the analysis of info is also a contribution.






Here is some good news for ya:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-bitcoin-karpeles-idUSBREA2A1VM20140311?feedType=RSS


(Reuters) - A U.S. federal judge on Tuesday temporarily froze the U.S. assets of Mt. Gox chief Mark Karpeles and allowed alleged victims of the shuttered bitcoin exchange to demand evidence of what they claim is a massive fraud.

The market for the digital currency was rocked last month when Mt. Gox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, ceased operations, and soon after filed for bankruptcy. Mt. Gox said it may have lost 750,000 bitcoins, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, in a hacking attack.

The freeze on Karpeles' assets, issued by Judge Gary Feinerman in Chicago, also applies to Mt. Gox's U.S. affiliate and the Japanese parent company, Tibanne, according to Christopher Dore, an Edelson attorney who represents U.S. customers of the bitcoin exchange.

The judge's order did not apply to the Tokyo-based Mt. Gox KK, which was shielded from litigation after it filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and the United States.

Mt. Gox suspended withdrawals on February 7, leaving customers unable to recover their funds.

In a bankruptcy hearing on Monday, parties suing Mt. Gox said there are growing concerns that Karpeles moved millions of dollars of bitcoins in recent days based on information gleaned from the Internet.

Dore represents Gregory Greene, an Illinois resident, who brought a proposed class action over what he claims is a massive fraud. Mt. Gox blamed the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in bitcoins on a flaw in the software algorithm that underlies the digital currency.

"The main thing we hope to achieve is to finally see what the web of things that Karpeles has put together over the last few years and to start unwinding it as to where things are and what happened," said Dore.

Bitcoin is bought and sold on a peer-to-peer network independent of central control. Its value soared last year, and the total worth of bitcoins minted is now about $7 billion.

Investors were warned on Tuesday that the lure of a quick profit trading the volatile currency should not blind them to bitcoin's risk of theft, fraud and significant losses, according to an alert by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.

Dore said the judge's order freezing Karpeles' assets will expire in 14 days, when the parties return to court to decide if it should be extended.

John Murphy, a Baker McKenzie attorney for Mt. Gox KK, the bankrupt company, declined to comment. Dore said the U.S. affiliate, Karpeles and Tibanne were not represented at the hearing.

The case is Gregory Greene v Mt. Gox Inc et al, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 14-01437

(Reporting by Tom Hals in Wilmington, Delaware; editing by Andrew Hay)

[Loozik]

Here is some good news for ya:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-bitcoin-karpeles-idUSBREA2A1VM20140311?feedType=RSS

The same should be done in Japan + Mark Karpeles arrested.

[bananas]

Anyone can verify the bankruptcy protection laws in USA and Japan?

In many parts of the world the owner of the company can't have a criminal past to apply for brakrupt protection. It seems Mark has a charge for fraud in France.

[Armis]

Anyone can verify the bankruptcy protection laws in USA and Japan?

In many parts of the world the owner of the company can't have a criminal past to apply for brakrupt protection. It seems Mark has a charge for fraud in France.

That is very interesting on multiple fronts.  Could you elaborate further, perhaps indicate the charge, story, accusation, include dates, amounts, etc ...

thanks