Bitcoin Forum
May 07, 2024, 08:28:34 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Capital gains tax on online gambling transactions (USA)  (Read 183 times)
jetfuel (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1
Merit: 0


View Profile
September 22, 2018, 01:41:56 AM
 #1

I currently have logged over 8000 bets with an online casino in the past week and am looking for the best way to log my data going forward. I've looked all around for guidance on how to do taxes for online gambling capital gains, but haven't found anything. I know that I have to pay taxes on the actual winnings themselves, but what about on the capital gains?

Two different approaches I've been considering/wondering if they're accepted by the IRS:
1. If I make 20 quick bets, one per second, losing half and winning half am I required to calculate cap gains for each of them? or
2. Is it possible for me to log my winnings/losings in a particular session and find the capital gain/loss using an average daily price?

I'm really at a loss and all my Google-fu has yielded nothing that's extremely helpful.
1715070514
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715070514

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715070514
Reply with quote  #2

1715070514
Report to moderator
1715070514
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715070514

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715070514
Reply with quote  #2

1715070514
Report to moderator
1715070514
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715070514

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715070514
Reply with quote  #2

1715070514
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1715070514
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715070514

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715070514
Reply with quote  #2

1715070514
Report to moderator
1715070514
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715070514

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715070514
Reply with quote  #2

1715070514
Report to moderator
1715070514
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1715070514

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1715070514
Reply with quote  #2

1715070514
Report to moderator
figmentofmyass
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1483



View Profile
September 23, 2018, 04:09:36 AM
Merited by pawel7777 (1)
 #2

I currently have logged over 8000 bets with an online casino in the past week and am looking for the best way to log my data going forward. I've looked all around for guidance on how to do taxes for online gambling capital gains, but haven't found anything. I know that I have to pay taxes on the actual winnings themselves, but what about on the capital gains?

Two different approaches I've been considering/wondering if they're accepted by the IRS:
1. If I make 20 quick bets, one per second, losing half and winning half am I required to calculate cap gains for each of them? or
2. Is it possible for me to log my winnings/losings in a particular session and find the capital gain/loss using an average daily price?

I'm really at a loss and all my Google-fu has yielded nothing that's extremely helpful.

i know from my online poker days that you can calculate you gambling income in terms of sessions. that was confirmed in a 2008 IRS memo:

Quote
A key question in interpreting § 165(d) is the significance of the term “transactions.”  The statute refers to gains and losses in terms of wagering transactions.  Some would contend that transaction means every single play in a game of chance or every wager made.  Under that reading, a taxpayer would have to calculate the gain or loss on every transaction separately and treat every play or wager as a taxable event.  The gambler would also have to trace and recompute the basis through all transactions to calculate the result of each play or wager. Courts considering that reading have found it unduly burdensome and unreasonable. Moreover, the statute uses the plural term “transactions” implying that gain or loss may be calculated over a series of separate plays or wagers. The better view is that a casual gambler, such as the taxpayer who plays the slot machines, recognizes a wagering gain or loss at the time she redeems her tokens. We think that the fluctuating wins and losses left in play are not accessions to wealth until the taxpayer redeems her tokens and can definitively calculate the amount above or below basis (the wager) realized. For example, a casual gambler who enters a casino with $100 and redeems his or her tokens for $300 after playing the slot machines has a wagering gain of $200 ($300 -$100).

bolding mine for emphasis. given their rationale for allowing calculation of gambling income by session, i think capital gains could be calculated by session as well. if there are no rates provided from the treasury department (there aren't), then you need to use a verifiable source for the bitcoin price and to be consistent about it. personally, i would use something like the daily closing price at coinbase. that should make it simple.

don't quote me on that though. you should probably talk to an actual tax professional.

buwaytress
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2800
Merit: 3443


Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!


View Profile
September 23, 2018, 04:09:42 PM
 #3

Also don't have personal experience but the one or two cases I know of for people I do know of who've attempted (successfull so far anyway) to report IRS taxes, it's as figmentofmyass says: reported in gambling sessions - for the case of online gambling, it would be at the time you withdraw. So each withdrawal, you would have to see whether you're in net losses or winnings (calculated by simple deposit minus withdrawal). For as long as your balance is still in the casino, there's a session not concluded.

In effect, you could actually get tax relief from nett losses.

██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
... LIVECASINO.io    Play Live Games with up to 20% cashback!...██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
Harlot
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806
Merit: 671


View Profile
September 23, 2018, 05:28:41 PM
 #4

Why would you need capital gains for? From what I know gambling winnings is only taxable via income tax and it will only be taxable via capital gains if you hold it while it is increasing in terms of value. Keep in mind by doing so you are subjecting yourself for two kinds of tax because if the value of your cryptocurrency rise not only will you be subject to income tax but also capital gains tax which I don't think is good for you as it doesn't matter if BTC's price will rise as you will still be paying more out of your gambling winnings.
audaciousbeing
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330
Merit: 569



View Profile
September 24, 2018, 06:44:55 AM
 #5

I currently have logged over 8000 bets with an online casino in the past week and am looking for the best way to log my data going forward. I've looked all around for guidance on how to do taxes for online gambling capital gains, but haven't found anything. I know that I have to pay taxes on the actual winnings themselves, but what about on the capital gains?

Two different approaches I've been considering/wondering if they're accepted by the IRS:
1. If I make 20 quick bets, one per second, losing half and winning half am I required to calculate cap gains for each of them? or
2. Is it possible for me to log my winnings/losings in a particular session and find the capital gain/loss using an average daily price?

I'm really at a loss and all my Google-fu has yielded nothing that's extremely helpful.


Based on what you have said here, you are looking at two types of taxes that will be paid here based on the nature of the transactions

1. On the winnings itself and

2. On the conversion of your bitcoin to fiat which is the capital gain counterpart.

Just like someone has explained above, it all depends on the interpretation of the law and only the law enforcement agents or legal adviser can tell you what this really means. The law is not absolute though because even me with my knowledge of the tax law, this is coming as another angle that should be looked at as it might amount to double taxation and punishment for making money in the right way. I feel, the tax would be computed and the higher of the two would be picked because its the same fund that is being multiplied just like Sales Tax that would only arise on the source no matter the number of people on the food chain.
pawel7777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2436
Merit: 1561



View Profile WWW
September 26, 2018, 09:10:19 PM
 #6

... For as long as your balance is still in the casino, there's a session not concluded.

Seriously doubt that. That makes sense for poker sessions and maybe brick-and-mortar casinos (where you convert to chips), but I'm having a hard time believing that you can avoid paying tax for as long as you keep your money parked on your online-casino account. That would make few-years long sessions possible.

In effect, you could actually get tax relief from nett losses

Quick google search tells me that:

You can deduct your losses only up to the amount of your total gambling winnings
https://www.efile.com/taxable-gambling-winnings-income-taxes/

.freebitcoin.       ▄▄▄█▀▀██▄▄▄
   ▄▄██████▄▄█  █▀▀█▄▄
  ███  █▀▀███████▄▄██▀
   ▀▀▀██▄▄█  ████▀▀  ▄██
▄███▄▄  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▄▄██████
██▀▀█████▄     ▄██▀█ ▀▀██
██▄▄███▀▀██   ███▀ ▄▄  ▀█
███████▄▄███ ███▄▄ ▀▀▄  █
██▀▀████████ █████  █▀▄██
 █▄▄████████ █████   ███
  ▀████  ███ ████▄▄███▀
     ▀▀████   ████▀▀
BITCOIN
DICE
EVENT
BETTING
WIN A LAMBO !

.
            ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████████▄▄▄▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄██████████████████████████████████▄▄▄▄
▀██████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄
▄▄████▄█████▄████████████████████████████▄█████▄████▄▄
▀████████▀▀▀████████████████████████████████▀▀▀██████████▄
  ▀▀▀████▄▄▄███████████████████████████████▄▄▄██████████
       ▀█████▀  ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ▀█████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.PLAY NOW.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!