all finished

[waldohoover]

all finished

[effektz]

Alrighty guys, I said I would revisit this option come March 1st so let's see where we all stand.

We're 2/3 of the way through Q1, meaning KnCMiner still has 4 months, technically, to ship a Neptune until they are considered late.

With BTC/USD rates this low.. and if they stay around this price you guys should recover about ~90/95% of your initial BTC.

Now, I'm good with either way, you guys are the share holders. You want to go the refund round, I will inquire with KnCMiner. You guys want to wait it out, let's do it.

Vote above!  

* Estimated Earnings Calculator

* Please only vote if you own shares , thanks!

WH

I only got a few shares, but I say we wait it out.

[Undef]

14 shares:
Stay the Course.  I want a miner working for me, not a few coins to sit in my wallet.

Waldo, have you considered moving people around among the miner orders so the few who want to bail can get out (refunding the last miner(s) ordered), while the rest of us just move up in the "order queue?"

[KyrosKrane]

6 shares: Stay the course (for now).

KNC has proven themselves reliable in the past.  They've increased the hashing power of units without charging extra, they've delivered when they said they would, and they've generally been an upstanding player.  Even with the pessimistic growth rate of the calculator at mining.thegenesisblock.com, I think we could still make a profit if we take delivery as late as end of March.  Adjusting the growth rate on the calculator to something a little more sane, we could easily profit with delivery as late as end of April, and with luck as late as May. It won't be an instant profit, sure, but we knew that going in. I'm in this for the long haul, not the quick profit.

That said, I'm also a realist.    My suggestion is that we hold for now, and reevaluate the hold/sell decision in a month's time, around end of March or early April.

[Koops]

I voted wait  for now also (20 shares).

I agree with the above in regards to knc. If we get delivery pre April we can still make a profit.

[zerodegree79]

6 shares: Stay the course (for now).

KNC has proven themselves reliable in the past.  They've increased the hashing power of units without charging extra, they've delivered when they said they would, and they've generally been an upstanding player.  Even with the pessimistic growth rate of the calculator at mining.thegenesisblock.com, I think we could still make a profit if we take delivery as late as end of March.  Adjusting the growth rate on the calculator to something a little more sane, we could easily profit with delivery as late as end of April, and with luck as late as May. It won't be an instant profit, sure, but we knew that going in. I'm in this for the long haul, not the quick profit.

That said, I'm also a realist.    My suggestion is that we hold for now, and reevaluate the hold/sell decision in a month's time, around end of March or early April.

well said, same for me

[Xeon]

Refund, i will not lose again my BTC!

[Chef Ramsay]

I could go either way on this, though I'd prefer to have my 8 shares working for me sooner rather than later. It's been a while and I'm not really sure whether I'm in Batch 1 or 2 but didn't KNC offer to have our rigs set up at their facility in the advent of late delivery? I was just assuming this would be up and running sometime in March or latest in April. It would seem that anything beyond that would be refund territory.

[spazzcat]

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

[KyrosKrane]

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

[Undef]

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

Not to mention that nothing has changed since we ordered.  They promised, "Shipment begins in Q1/Q2 of 2014" and it is still Q1 of 2014.  It's not even Q2 yet.  Nothing has changed, except a few vocal people getting a case of buyers' remorse.

If KNC ends up missing the Q2 promise, with no offer to make it up to us, then we'll talk.  Until then, we're getting exactly what we expected--and paid for.  It is the height of unreasonability to say, "We haven't heard anything, so that must mean the worst has happened."  Take a deep breath, folks.

[tmu]

Only 1 share, but stay and wait. I trust KnC to deliver.
I still have "high" hopes on this one. ROI on BTC if not in $, anyway with current $/BTC even refund would be loosing.

[spazzcat]

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

PETA right now is going for 1/3 or more of what it is worth IMHO. It should be round .25 -.3 and you can pick up for less then .1.

[KyrosKrane]

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

PETA right now is going for 1/3 or more of what it is worth IMHO. It should be round .25 -.3 and you can pick up for less then .1.

Sorry, what's a PETA? (Serious question, not being snarky - I've been looking around for new mining hardware, and nothing seems to be in stock or available in the near future, other than Antminers and Gridseed/DualMiner variants.)

[RATM69]

Stay the course

Bitcoin can go back up in price just like it fell.

[Winnopeg]

4 shares and I'm totally okay continuing to wait. 95% back isn't terrible, but I'd much rather let them mine and see where it goes.

[spazzcat]

I say refund, there are other things better to invest in now.

Really? Because I've been looking around for something new, and all I see are Antminers and Gridseeds.

PETA right now is going for 1/3 or more of what it is worth IMHO. It should be round .25 -.3 and you can pick up for less then .1.

Sorry, what's a PETA? (Serious question, not being snarky - I've been looking around for new mining hardware, and nothing seems to be in stock or available in the near future, other than Antminers and Gridseed/DualMiner variants.)

A mining stock, it's over on havelock, https://www.havelockinvestments.com.

[spazzcat]

Is there enough people wanting a refund to cancel one of the miners and consolidate the others?

[HadToLookTwice]

I have 7 shares and would like to wait.

[CommanderVenus]

I have two shares in Neptune #3. If KnC / waldohoover will allow one miner to be refunded, thats 2/60 shares needed.

[Chef Ramsay]

Anybody catch the latest here? I think this is for the Neptunes tho I could be wrong. https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

KnC Announce ‘Tape out’ of the World’s first 20nm ASIC for Bitcoin Mining
 
STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN — March 5, 2014 –– KnC, the most trusted brand in Bitcoin Mining is announcing they
have completed ‘tape out’ of their new ASIC. This is the world’s first Bitcoin Mining Application Specific
Integrated Circuit (ASIC) designed using ground breaking 20 nanometer engineering. This important
milestone was achieved only 3 months after starting the project, during February 2014.
 
KnC partnered with Alchip and its representative, Advanced Semiconductors Technology (AST), to deliver
this advanced 20nm technology ASIC. This tapeout is the 2nd generation of the bitcoin mining ASIC following
the success of the 1st, which was delivered in a record time of 3.5 months.
 
This new KnC20nm chip will reduce power consumption of Bitcoin Mining by 43% when compared with the
previous generation. In addition, innovations in the design of the communications circuitry allow for 1440
cores, in a 55x55mm package.
 
Marcus Erlandson, KnC CTO, is immensely proud of the teams performance, “The combined efforts of KnC
and our partners Alchip means that once again we are bringing to market a world first silicon design and in
record time.”
 
Johnny Shen, President of Alchip. “KnC and Alchip have been working together on Bitcoin ASIC design for
less than 12 months and in that time we’ve already delivered 2 world-first projects. Collaboration is the key
here and the close working relationship between our teams is the secret to our success”

That's like ~4-5 TH each

[Koops]

Anybody catch the latest here? I think this is for the Neptunes tho I could be wrong. https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

KnC Announce ‘Tape out’ of the World’s first 20nm ASIC for Bitcoin Mining
 
STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN — March 5, 2014 –– KnC, the most trusted brand in Bitcoin Mining is announcing they
have completed ‘tape out’ of their new ASIC. This is the world’s first Bitcoin Mining Application Specific
Integrated Circuit (ASIC) designed using ground breaking 20 nanometer engineering. This important
milestone was achieved only 3 months after starting the project, during February 2014.
 

Yeah neptunes.

So the question is how long before shipping actual miners now. Another user posted that tape out to shipping time was about 2 months for the jupiters. So would it be fair, even optimistic to estimate early May ?

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1zn0n3/knc_neptune_20nm_miners_completes_tape_out/cfvup77

[vleroybrown]

So no word about the hosted miner deal, to cover investors in the Neptunes?

[Ramhound]

I vote to stay the course.

I have a single share.

[di0nysus]

2 shares - stay the course

[vleroybrown]

Thanks for everyones input again.

Well, now the polls are showing a 50/50 (instead of 70% stay, 30% refund).

Emails and PMs on other communications are about 60% refund, 40% stay..

Still very close.

I will run another (and most likely last) poll on April 1st (First day of Q2) and revisit both options again. If refund option passes the ~75% majority mark, I will most likely consider that option in the future.

Thanks everyone!

Is there anyway to directly notify all shareholders on the next vote?  I missed the start of this one and would like to voice my 8 shares worth.

[HambreDave]

Is there a way to make the vote a little more "official"? Anyone on the bitcointalk forum can vote on the poll and the poll doesn't represent number of shares. I only have two but I know others with more who might deserve a bigger input.

[Undef]

Well, now the polls are showing a 50/50 (instead of 70% stay, 30% refund).

Emails and PMs on other communications are about 60% refund, 40% stay..

And yet the posts in this very thread, counting the number of shares, are 77% stay the course. 

34 shares plus "a few" and one unknown said "Stay," while 10 shares and two unknowns said "refund."

Waldo, you seem pretty biased toward a refund.  What's going on?

So, two questions:

1) Are you, in fact, trying to convince us to ask for a refund?

2) Why must this be all-or-nothing?  You ordered these in separate orders, so you can ask for refunds on separate orders, yes?  When you have enough "refund" shares to equal the last order you placed, get it refunded.  Move everyone else into the vacated shares and move on.

If you want out, electricity costs me about 40% of the rate you've posted.  If you want out, I'm confident we can find someone else to collect the management fee and continue to support the bitcoin network...  Let's work together on this.  I'm willing to help, and I don't want to reduce my bitcoin earning potential to zero just because the USD/Bitcoin price has fallen and a few people are impatient.

Undef

P.S. The original statement, "we haven't heard anything from KNC," is no longer true.  We now know exactly where they are in the process, and they are exactly on schedule.  What is the motivation for refunds now?

[spazzcat]

Well, now the polls are showing a 50/50 (instead of 70% stay, 30% refund).

...

P.S. The original statement, "we haven't heard anything from KNC," is no longer true.  We now know exactly where they are in the process, and they are exactly on schedule.  What is the motivation for refunds now?

I don't believe we can come close to getting ROI now that the units are so late. March was supposed to be the latest we get these, now we are thinking May...

[KyrosKrane]

Well, now the polls are showing a 50/50 (instead of 70% stay, 30% refund).

...

P.S. The original statement, "we haven't heard anything from KNC," is no longer true.  We now know exactly where they are in the process, and they are exactly on schedule.  What is the motivation for refunds now?

I don't believe we can come close to getting ROI now that the units are so late. March was supposed to be the latest we get these, now we are thinking May...

The Neptune was originally advertised (and is still advertised, I believe, though I haven't checked) as Q1/Q2, which means it's still on schedule as late as end of June.  (In fact, that huge date range was precisely what stopped me from buying one myself.) Everyone hoped it would be in Q1, but that was never promised; and anyone who absolutely relied on end of March as a target date was fooling themselves.

[Undef]

Perfectly fair.  Thanks for the thoughtful response.

[CommanderVenus]

If there was an effective way of voting by amount of shares, that might be helpful in determining if one or more units could be refunded if that is indeed a possibility.

I would like to repeat my stance as refund. The way things are looking is that we wont get them Q1 and the shares i bought were for a Q1 shipped miner.

[murt9000]

Undef, Waldo is right. There is absolutely no chance of ROI on the Neptunes now, even if they arrived a month from today, and they won't. I'm really surprised at the amount of shareholders who still prefer to wait it out. If you take the time to assess the rate of increase of difficulty and the price of Bitcoin over the past 6 months, you will not be able to forecast exactly what the ROI will be but you can reasonable assume that the Neptunes will be unprofitable somewhere between 2 weeks to 2 months from the start of mining.

It doesn't matter how many shares you have, you will not mine the same amount of Bitcoin that you originally paid for your shares within that window of profitability.

It doesn't matter if mining is a speculative endeavor for you, not based on todays Bitcoin price but on the future price. The speculation would be more profitable if you got your original funding back in Bitcoin, or as close as possible to it.

I can't see what the motivation is to stay the course. I would love for this to be a profitable venture but as I stated around a month ago on this thread, that ship sailed long ago unfortunately.

Murt9000

[ejinte]

Undef, Waldo is right. There is absolutely no chance of ROI on the Neptunes now, even if they arrived a month from today, and they won't. I'm really surprised at the amount of shareholders who still prefer to wait it out. If you take the time to assess the rate of increase of difficulty and the price of Bitcoin over the past 6 months, you will not be able to forecast exactly what the ROI will be but you can reasonable assume that the Neptunes will be unprofitable somewhere between 2 weeks to 2 months from the start of mining.

It doesn't matter how many shares you have, you will not mine the same amount of Bitcoin that you originally paid for your shares within that window of profitability.

It doesn't matter if mining is a speculative endeavor for you, not based on todays Bitcoin price but on the future price. The speculation would be more profitable if you got your original funding back in Bitcoin, or as close as possible to it.

I can't see what the motivation is to stay the course. I would love for this to be a profitable venture but as I stated around a month ago on this thread, that ship sailed long ago unfortunately.

Murt9000

Ok after reading this I also wanna go for a refund. Holding 8 shares. However didn't we buy the miner when BTC was around $1000? So if we get the refund in USD it would leave us with extra BTC? Or not?

[Chef Ramsay]

I, too, was thinking along the lines of getting the miner during Q1 and was for waiting it out. After looking at the big picture here, it does seem more realistic to cash out now and move on. Got 8 shares fwiw.

[HambreDave]

I only have two shares but I vote that we get ou while we can still get most of our btc back.

[ejinte]

Isn't it possible to refund some miners and keep some?

[Undef]

It doesn't matter if mining is a speculative endeavor for you, not based on todays Bitcoin price but on the future price. The speculation would be more profitable if you got your original funding back in Bitcoin, or as close as possible to it.

Murt,

You may be missing my entire point.  I am not a speculator.  My goal is not to have some coins sitting in my wallet.  My goal is to participate in the bitcoin network, and have a powerful miner working on my behalf, 24/7 for a long time.  If all I wanted was some coin to hold, I would never have bought into an ASIC group buy at all.

Please don't speculate with my coin.  And that's what you (you all asking to bail out of these miners) are doing.  Had the BTC price risen, this thread would not even exist.  So, the only reason you want this is because of price speculation.  "Let's buy some coin now, with a refund, and hope the price goes back up."

And when you say "absolutely no chance of ROI," let's talk about that.  Are you familiar with the BFL Singles?  Do you think there is any ROI on those now?

In fact, I have one (technically, two Little Singles) sitting here right now, mining away (and I was a late purchaser).  They netted me over $150 in the last 30 days.  You know what it costs me to run them?  A few bucks in electricity.  They will give me "ROI" for quite a long time to come.

I understand the speculator mindset.  You put X number of coins into the group buy, and now that the USD/BTC price has fallen, you might get back almost that many coins immediately.  But you would then be out of the bitcoin mining industry altogether.  You'd have some coins in your wallet, but no way to get any more, except through an outlay of fiat.

I don't want to be out of the bitcoin mining industry.  Frankly, I don't believe the whole "no chance of ROI," unless Waldo decides to shut the miners off long before the electricity costs more than the coin.

P.S.
Would you do me, and those of us who want to stay, a favor?  Please encourage Waldo to let those who want to stay, stay.  I, and others, have asked if he would refund some of the machines, and let the rest go into production.  But he won't even answer that request.  This is so stressful for me, because people I don't know, and with whom I politely disagree, are trying to make an adverse decision that doesn't even need to affect me.  I want you to get what you want; but I don't want to get f****d out of my participation in the network by the speculators.

Please help Waldo do the right thing for all of his shareholders, not just those who want out.

[Undef]

Isn't it possible to refund some miners and keep some?

Waldo?

Please?

[murt9000]

It doesn't matter if mining is a speculative endeavor for you, not based on todays Bitcoin price but on the future price. The speculation would be more profitable if you got your original funding back in Bitcoin, or as close as possible to it.

Murt,

You may be missing my entire point.  I am not a speculator.  My goal is not to have some coins sitting in my wallet.  My goal is to participate in the bitcoin network, and have a powerful miner working on my behalf, 24/7 for a long time.  If all I wanted was some coin to hold, I would never have bought into an ASIC group buy at all.

Please don't speculate with my coin.  And that's what you (you all asking to bail out of these miners) are doing.  Had the BTC price risen, this thread would not even exist.  So, the only reason you want this is because of price speculation.  "Let's buy some coin now, with a refund, and hope the price goes back up."

And when you say "absolutely no chance of ROI," let's talk about that.  Are you familiar with the BFL Singles?  Do you think there is any ROI on those now?

In fact, I have one (technically, two Little Singles) sitting here right now, mining away (and I was a late purchaser).  They netted me over $150 in the last 30 days.  You know what it costs me to run them?  A few bucks in electricity.  They will give me "ROI" for quite a long time to come.

I understand the speculator mindset.  You put X number of coins into the group buy, and now that the USD/BTC price has fallen, you might get back almost that many coins immediately.  But you would then be out of the bitcoin mining industry altogether.  You'd have some coins in your wallet, but no way to get any more, except through an outlay of fiat.

I don't want to be out of the bitcoin mining industry.  Frankly, I don't believe the whole "no chance of ROI," unless Waldo decides to shut the miners off long before the electricity costs more than the coin.

P.S.
Would you do me, and those of us who want to stay, a favor?  Please encourage Waldo to let those who want to stay, stay.  I, and others, have asked if he would refund some of the machines, and let the rest go into production.  But he won't even answer that request.  This is so stressful for me, because people I don't know, and with whom I politely disagree, are trying to make an adverse decision that doesn't even need to affect me.  I want you to get what you want; but I don't want to get f****d out of my participation in the network by the speculators.

Please help Waldo do the right thing for all of his shareholders, not just those who want out.

Hi Undef, I'm not speculating with your coin. I'm speculating with my investment. The Neptunes do not belong to you. You just own shares like me and we are both equally entitled to voice our opinion.

I did not ask anyone to do anything. If you review my comment you will be man enough to admit that your accusation is groundless. I said that I don't understand the motivation of those that wish to stay the course but I didn't ask anyone to take any course of action.

I do share one element of your motivation, as I think most of us do here. We all want to see Bitcoin prosper. We all want to support the protocol. Where we diverge is that I don't want to do it at my personal expense. If I make a financial loss in the process then for me the investment has not been successful whereas for you it's still a successful investment because of your love of mining. I respect your perspective, commend you for it and wish you luck with it but to be honest I don't really get it. I would hazard a guess that most investors are mining for profit rather than love but maybe I'm in the minority.

Previous mining success or failure on hardware that is already operational with known specifications and efficiency on past prices and network difficulty is all utterly irrelevant. I have had several successful mining ventures since Q2 2012 but none  of that is relevant to this thread. Replace all those known factors with mostly unknown variables and you will be returning to point. I never claimed that none of us have made profitable investments in the past.

I may not have asked anyone to do anything in my comment but you have rather presumptuously and inappropriately asked me to lobby Waldo's customers on your behalf. Consider your request noted and summarily rejected.

If I was to encourage readers of this thread to take any action it would be to disregard our conversation and do their own homework. Don't listen to individual opinions about whether this might be a successful venture or not. Find a good mining profitability calculator that handles exponential network difficulty and price changes and run your own simulations taking into account what you believe to be the most optimistic, most pessimistic and most realistic sets of variables. Then calculate your own forecast by applying the results of those 3 simulations to the PERT formula (O + 4M + P) ÷ 6.

If you do this you will have your own forecast based on variables that you know and understand and you will have a much better understanding of the probability of ROI on this investment.

[Undef]

This could be an option, unfortunately a good chunk of the people who invest never seem to follow any of the news/announcements I make.

Some just send me their investment- log off forums/emails etc for months and then ask me later "so whats the word?" - which makes it difficult to make decisions for them.

Please understand I am saying this respectfully, with a smile on my face...  Why are you trying to make a decision for them at all?

The people who bought into the group buy already made their decision.  That decision should stand unless they specifically change it.  I respectfully suggest: you should not think you need to make a decision for them at all.  They made their decision; respect it.  

Your safest option is to accept "refund requests" by shares owned.  As soon as you have enough "refund shares," get a refund of the last miner ordered and "slide" everyone else who remains in the group buy "up" to fill those emptied slots.  

You don't need to make a decision for anyone.  Let those who have decided to get a refund, get a refund.  The rest of your members' decisions should be left alone.

Thanks for being so thoughtful and concerned for your group buy members.  It does you credit.  But I think you are making this an all-or-nothing proposition when it doesn't need to be.  Based on your numbers earlier in the thread, you already have enough refund-ready shareholders to get a refund for them.  I'm making an assumption here, but if my assumption is right, why wait?  Refund one or more of the miners in the second buy (so no one can be moved from buy #1 to #2) and send them their coin.    

P.S. This method will make the refunders happy, and it will also cause some of the people in buy #2 to be very happy.  They will "magically" find themselves "moved up" into buy #1, and not have to wait as long to begin receiving a return.  Everyone gets to be happy this way.  Just something for you to consider...

[daynomate]

I only have a handful so I'm not that concerned either way - If I was to pick I'd prefer to stay. I do have more shares in another scheme so it would be nice to refund this one so that I only had to worry about one scheme however, so if refunds were an option that would also be good for me.

[OneSixtiethOfASecond]

It's nearly April 1st. I think it is time to request a refund. I have four shares.

[vleroybrown]

It's nearly April 1st. I think it is time to request a refund. I have four shares.

This ^, 8 Shares, infrastructure investments await me outside of mining..

[HambreDave]

Only two shares here. Let's refund.

[HadToLookTwice]

If everybody wants a refund, my 7 shares will also vote for a refund.

[DanZaph]

Was payment sent for the KnCMiner Miner #11 - Neptune BATCH 2?

[Ramhound]

I vote to stay the course.

I have a single share.

I would like to change my vote.

I vote for a refund given its been 30+ days without any change in status.

[chopsbit]

I have 4 shares in Neptune #5, I vote to keep and it would be great if I can move up onto Neptune #1 if people on there want a refund.

Am I missing something or weren't these scheduled for a Q2 release? I assumed this would be delivered by June 30th and any earlier would be great, it's only April now.

[ejinte]

Dear all,

In this newsletter we have some updates for you all about our product range. The newsletter will contain the following sections:
 
20nm statement
Neptune progress update
Hash while you wait
Convert your Neptune order
 
20nm statement.

This is an important statement which we would like to make clear. As always there is a lot of information available on the internet and a lot of speculation about the technology we are using some of it true and some of it completely wrong. What we can say is that the technology we have chosen is cutting edge and this means a lot of companies are careful about adopting such technologies.
We at KnCMiner pride ourselves in bringing the latest technologies to our customers. We over engineer our chips and don’t promise anywhere near the actual 100% performance they could possibly achieve. This enables us to use the latest and greatest chips safely. So when you read about much longer timelines for this technology it’s important to note they are not our timelines. We have a very different approach. We over engineer our chips and only use world class partners in our chip designs. These important factors allow us to have the technology in our customer’s hands faster than other companies.
 
Neptune progress update.

Our Neptune product is currently in fabrication stage at the TSMC Foundry in Asia. We are actively pushing to get the chips as fast as possible to our assembly factories in Sweden. We have of course taken all steps to make sure that the process is done as fast as possible. We know as well as everyone in this business that time is a critical part of the process.  Which we think is why we have come up with a few alternatives to anyone who doesn't want to wait for their product.
 
Hash while you wait.

First it’s important to note that we don’t expect to be late at all everything is on track. It’s just always good to have a backup plan. Second our mega-data center in the north of Sweden is nearing completion so we can give out some more details. All customers of Neptune’s will be able to use completely free of charge our data center to hash for them at 3TH either on our pool or a pool of their choice while they wait for their product to be shipped. The first customers (batch 1) are expected to be hashing in our data center in early June and the last customer will hash in our data center around the last week of June. All the customers will be able to hash in that data center for as long as we are late in shipping your Neptune product, this service will be provided on a best effort basis. We have a 24/7 operations teams in place with multiple redundant internet and power connections and we will aim to have as close to 0 down time as possible.
 
Convert your Neptune order to a 3TH Jupiter.
 
For those customers who no longer want to wait for their Neptune we have another new option for you. We are releasing for shipment a new 3TH product. We have a total of 400 of these setups available which are based on our existing and proven 28nm chips. Each setup contains
18 of our own 28nm 8 DC/DC module ASIC boards with coolers,
3 controller cards,
all cables needed,
Power supplies not included.
The boards are in aluminum boxes, each box contains 3 chips side by side with front and rear cooling vents. Each controller card runs two boxes. This option will be offered free of charge for anyone wanting to convert their Neptune to a 3TH Jupiter. If more than 400 people want to have the conversion we will ship in order of payment for the original Neptune order. This offer will be open for 7 days for people to contact us. After 7 days from today the exchange will be frozen and people will be contacted who made it onto the queue. The products will then be shipped from stock as soon as possible. This will be offered at no cost to the customers wanting to take 3TH of Jupiter’s instead of waiting for their Neptune’s. There is a 90 day warranty on this product. Anyone wanting to take this option should contact customer service via email with their order number who will then take care of the conversion.
 

The last option seems to be the best if we get 3ghz and it will be shipped soon?

[Gwagonbaby]

Yep I would like to go for the refund route too please. As it was only 3 shares, makes sense. Thanks for your updates.

[tommyl]

What about the option of switching to 3TH in Jupiters?

Right now the only option for anything even near ROI is to get the hashrate asap.

[tommyl]

What about the option of switching to 3TH in Jupiters?

Right now the only option for anything even near ROI is to get the hashrate asap.

Nah, that's moving a step backwards. On top of that that means I have to buy even more PSUs to run all of the extra boards on the controllers.

Either way, we wont be hashing until the last week of Q2 it seems with the most recent news regarding the Neptunes.

Ok, I see. That sucks...

I haven't voted (haven't used the forum in a long time and forgot my pw), but I'd vote for a refund with my single share, unless that is too late now.

[Koops]

What happened to CoiningSolutions.com? 

[Koops]

yeah I now agree with waldohoover that this is the best way forward.

I'd been doing my own estimates and it was getting close (if not past) the point of ever breaking even.

[zerodegree79]

Alright guys, looks like we're going to go with Neptune refunds since KnCminer will do a US bank transfer. This will probably take a couple of weeks to get processed  and like I stated before this will be somewhat of a timely process for me to purchase the amount of coins to do refunds. I am considering pulling out cold storage coins to just get your guys your BTC sooner than later (only because KnCMiner has agreed to a refund if requested).. but still debating that. We don't have enough to keep a full miner and the clear decision, vocally, is refunds.

Like stated in my OP, you will receive all your BTC minus 5% fee.

That comes out to:

Neptunes 1-4: ฿0.2375/share

Neptune 5: ฿0.2565/share

Neptune 6: ฿0.3135/share

I honestly feel this is the best move for share holders at this time. Still no chips in hand, power requirements are still MIA and a rising difficulty- I think the refund is going to get you more BTC back in hand in the long run. Even with the most hopeful outcome of us being super early in June, that's still a 10B+ dif , looking at the earnings calculator (which doesn't include electric fees yet for obv reasons) almost proves the refund is the best choice. I'll let this sit for this week while I try to move some coins around and hopefully can start refunding soon (once I confirm again with KnC).

Cheers all.  

Perfect choice, thanks waldo!

[DanZaph]

Alright guys, looks like we're going to go with Neptune refunds since KnCminer will do a US bank transfer.

What will KnCminer miner be refunding? The exact number of BTC paid or UD$? If US$ is that be based on the exchange rate at the time of purchase or the time of refund, there is a considerable difference.

[ejinte]

Jupiter 3TH
The window for conversions has now closed we have had over 400 conversions which means we are actively trying to fill all of the orders we have but we will contact customers individually if they are too far back in the queue to be converted. The good news is that the shipment for these orders will begin Tuesday next week after the Easter holidays and we expect it to take only a few days to have all boxes shipped out to customers.
 
Neptune Power Requirements
While we will not release the maximum performance of the Neptune miner we can now release the required power supply to give people time to purchase them. The maximum power draw will be 2100w of power and we recommend this to be either two 1200w power supplies or three 850watt power supplies. This does include a bit of a safety margin on our side and of course underclocking will be possible to reduce the power requirements even more.

I don't see why the Jupiter would have been a bad chose since it's the same amount of mining power. Anyhow that's to late now so let's do the refund then...

Will the first one who payed be the first one to get the BTC back?

[ejinte]

Will the first one who payed be the first one to get the BTC back?

Once I get the guarantee from KnC that they have indeed cancelled/began refund process (awaiting reply for official refund) I may refund everyone out of my own personal cold storage coins at the same time (same day). There's no need to drag out refunds for a month(s) as long as I know KnC is refunding me down the line.. on top of that it gets everyone their coins MUCH sooner.. and maybe gives them some coin to invest into something else with.    

That's great. You rock man!

[HambreDave]

Just to throw this out there, the original post on Reddit where I first heard about this opportunity contains the following text about refunds:

• I (DidHeJust) take no responsibility for the possibility that KNC Miner does not deliver the Neptune miner(s). I (DidHeJust) have done what I consider a thorough due diligence but as we all know, you can never 100% guarantee anything when it comes to pre-orders.
• Refunds will be given in case of non-delivery less 5% for management of the Group Buy.
• This group buy will be refunded (Once refunded from KnCMiner) after Mar 1, 2014 if KNC Neptune is not delivered- share holders can elect to wait further.

At the current exchange rate, Waldo stands to make quite a bit from this failed deal from the KnC refunds. The original text does not specify what amount of our investment we'd get back minus 5%. If I bought two shares, I'd expect to get back two *shares* of the amount refunded from KnC (minus the 5% for Waldo). I'm interested in what's going to happen with all the extra BTC after the USD conversion if we just get our original amount back minus the 5%.

I do appreciate the opportunity to participate in this venture and I thank Waldo for organizing it.

[ejinte]

Got my BTC, thanks!

[flyswatta]

Thanks for the refund!

[zerodegree79]

Got my BTC, thanks!

Thanks for the refund!

No problem! Everyone else should see their refunds coming in very soon!

got it. thanks a lot!

[HadToLookTwice]

I got mine too! Thanks Waldo!

[Collider]

@
waldohoover, I appreciated all the effort you put into this groupbuy, however please see my calculation below:


Refunded share price e.g. round 4 on 19th April 2014: 0,2565 @ 500$  1 share 128,25$

Amount YOU received from KnC for order cancellation: at least 10000$ per miner or 10000$/60 -->  1 share 166,66$

This is the calculation which is the most in favour of you, e.g. the one where your lack of refund was the lowest.
According to this data, the amount you retained for your services is ~ 25 % not 5% as you claimed.

Please explain to the community how you forgot to pay ~30$ back for every share.

(For the example of round 4 miner, you have profited from the community 60*30$=1800$)

This seems like a scam to me...


Anyone who does the math can figure out, that you just pocketed ~ 10k from the people that trusted you. (Averaged over all Neptunes)

[lubah]

5% fee - what a joke?   

it's bad enough that bitcoin prices were >$1000 USD back in late-nov'13 when I purchased these shares but you need to rob us a little more by refunding our original purchase price with bitcoin prices cut in half minus the 5 percent 'fee' for your shit management effort...

talk about a pig.

[chopsbit]

I've got my refund, although I'm a little confused as to the calculation. Bitcoins are now around the $480 mark, so if the refund from KNC is coming back in dollars and being used to purchase bitcoins for the refund shouldn't this be more like:

Neptune 5:
$10000 - 5% management fee = $9500
$9500 / 60 shares = $158 a share
$158 = 0.329 BTC

Based on the previous post, each Neptune 5 share has been refunded as 0.2565 BTC?


I've no issue over the 5% fee as I think this was displayed upfront and is fair, I just would have expected more BTC back as the refund was in $

[zerodegree79]

I've got my refund, although I'm a little confused as to the calculation. Bitcoins are now around the $480 mark, so if the refund from KNC is coming back in dollars and being used to purchase bitcoins for the refund shouldn't this be more like:

Neptune 5:
$10000 - 5% management fee = $9500
$9500 / 60 shares = $158 a share
$158 = 0.329 BTC

Based on the previous post, each Neptune 5 share has been refunded as 0.2565 BTC?


I've no issue over the 5% fee as I think this was displayed upfront and is fair, I just would have expected more BTC back as the refund was in $

+1

[chopsbit]

I understand no refund has yet been received, I used todays BTC price as an example but I would have expected the conversion to take place on the time the refund was received whenever that happened in the future. If the price of BTC suddenly shot up to say $3000 then obviously there would be less BTC returned, but that's the assumption I was working from

My point is, the refund option in this poll that people voted for was titled "Get a refund from KnCMiner in USD, convert to BTC and send refunds to share holders.". That isn't what's happened.

[spazzcat]

From what I understand waldo hasn't even received any funds from KnCMiner yet, I think he paid from his personal wallet, so whatever the price is now is irrelevant. On top of that I agreed to a refund of my BTC minus his 5% fee. I received 12 shares minus this fee exactly how he stated it in his terms from when I purchased my shares months ago. I don't understand what you're complaining about. If waldo makes more coins later when he buys good for him, he took a chance and gave me my BTC back in full how I expected it. Are you guys mad that you won't get more coins than expected because waldo might make more coins if the timing is right?  

He is trying to start a business here, after getting ripped off on this deal I will never do business with CS again and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way...

[speth]

In https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347907.msg4668563#msg4668563 he clearly stated the terms of the refund:

If we back out and go the refund route, that means they would have to wire 10K USD into my bank.

Since I would not be sending everyone USD- I would take everyones share (10K - 5% fee / 60 shares) and purchase BTC at the current rate and send it over to each shareholder.

Waldo, I think you have to honor your words and recalculate the refunds.

[Collider]

In https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347907.msg4668563#msg4668563 he clearly stated the terms of the refund:

If we back out and go the refund route, that means they would have to wire 10K USD into my bank.

Since I would not be sending everyone USD- I would take everyones share (10K - 5% fee / 60 shares) and purchase BTC at the current rate and send it over to each shareholder.

Waldo, I think you have to honor your words and recalculate the refunds.

I support this, everything else would be fraud.

I hope he adjusts it once he received his refund. Otherwise i don´t see how this could go down well for him....

[Xeon]

waldohoover, can you refund my BTC.

Thank you.

[HambreDave]

Does anyone have an idea of when KnC was scheduled to send the refunds out? My only hope is that he's waiting to have some solid numbers before getting back to us. 

[CommanderVenus]

Just to throw this out there, the original post on Reddit where I first heard about this opportunity contains the following text about refunds:

• I (DidHeJust) take no responsibility for the possibility that KNC Miner does not deliver the Neptune miner(s). I (DidHeJust) have done what I consider a thorough due diligence but as we all know, you can never 100% guarantee anything when it comes to pre-orders.
• Refunds will be given in case of non-delivery less 5% for management of the Group Buy.
• This group buy will be refunded (Once refunded from KnCMiner) after Mar 1, 2014 if KNC Neptune is not delivered- share holders can elect to wait further.

At the current exchange rate, Waldo stands to make quite a bit from this failed deal from the KnC refunds. The original text does not specify what amount of our investment we'd get back minus 5%. If I bought two shares, I'd expect to get back two *shares* of the amount refunded from KnC (minus the 5% for Waldo). I'm interested in what's going to happen with all the extra BTC after the USD conversion if we just get our original amount back minus the 5%.

I do appreciate the opportunity to participate in this venture and I thank Waldo for organizing it.

Does anyone have an idea of when KnC was scheduled to send the refunds out? My only hope is that he's waiting to have some solid numbers before getting back to us. 

I like you. You seem to be very calm and have a level head about this. Id like to hear your thoughts on recent conversation going on in the last page of the group buy thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=347907.200