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Author Topic: Crimea  (Read 156495 times)
niothor
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April 18, 2014, 04:55:24 PM
 #501

So , that should be applied to few thousands moscowits and new yorkers also?
Are any Ukrainians or Russians thrown out of the county for those reasons alone ?
I haven't seen any federal lands in the new york which were seized by moscovites. The same is incorrect for crimean tatars who stole a lot of public land in 1990s. I have to remind that seizure of state property is a crime.

If you wish to stay in any country, you will need a citizenship or residence permit. The residence permit is impossible to obtain while being a criminal. Sometimes citizenship could be obtained much easier, but obtaining a citizenship means that you went into the jurisdiction of this country.

So, possible options are:

1) If you wish to get a residence permit then you have to free public lands.
2) If you wish to get a citizenship then you have to free public land too. If you won't do this then you will receive a subpoena immediately after obtaining citizenship.

What would you do?


Lols, I was talking about new yorkers living illegally on abandoned properties in NY, just like moscovites live in some abandoned building in Moscow.

Poor people living ... if you call that living like that are everywhere.

The same thing that applies to Tatars can be applied to around 700 000 gypsies in Romania. Should we send them to the only neighbor that will accept them? The black Sea?

Your idea might sound just like that now the people living there need a new citizenship because of this change and that they need to re-apply for it,  and is a dangerous one.

One sick mind can twist it just a bit and we'll have a situation far worse than you can imagine







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April 18, 2014, 05:01:23 PM
 #502

The same thing that applies to Tatars can be applied to around 700 000 gypsies in Romania. Should we send them to the only neighbor that will accept them? The black Sea?

There is a significant difference. Tatars are not loyal to Crimea, Russia or Ukraine. They are loyal to Turkey. If Turkey invades Crimea sometime in the future, then 99% of the Tatars will fight on the side of the Turks. (If I am not wrong, there are more than 25,000 Crimean Tatars in Romania, esp. Constanța County. You can check their loyalty  Grin).

On the other hand, the Gypsies are loyal to Romania. They speak Romanian (in most cases, Romany is dying). They also believe in the same religion (Romanian Orthodox)... So there will be less problems.


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April 18, 2014, 05:30:32 PM
 #503

niothor, read again, please. Smiley There is nothing wrong with crimean tatars, it's not about nationality/citizenship/whatever. Some of them have seized a significant part of public lands and won't free it without using law enforcement agencies. It's only about law and only about a some part of tatar population.

Can I get Romanian citizenship while breaking a romanian law? Can I seize 100-200 km2 of romanian land and request a citizenship? Answer is quite obvious, isn't it? Smiley

There are significant differences between living on abandoned properties and seizing the thousands of km2 of a public land. Roll Eyes Nowhere in the world you can see anything like this, even in Somalia. It's necessary to say thank you to the Ukrainian government, they fucked up instead of resolving this issue 23 years ago. They simply didn't care about this for almost 1/4 of century, and now they are trying to say something about human rights... Isn't it ridiculous? Roll Eyes

It's obvious that public lands should be freed, so... If the Ukrainian "government" has "remembered" about an existence of this public property seizers and wants to provide them with a land, let them do it at their own expense. Just don't allow the criminals to get a citizenship and they'll move to Ukraine.

Unfortunately, the same isn't applicable to Romania and gypsies... Because their migration wasn't a result of stupid political decisions. They can't move anythere, it's their home already. Sad

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April 18, 2014, 05:40:07 PM
 #504

niothor, read again, please. Smiley There is nothing wrong with crimean tatars, it's not about nationality/citizenship/whatever. Some of them have seized a significant part of public lands and won't free it without using law enforcement agencies. It's only about law and only about a some part of tatar population.

Can I get Romanian citizenship while breaking a romanian law? Can I seize 100-200 km2 of romanian land and request a citizenship? Answer is quite obvious, isn't it? Smiley

There are significant differences between living on abandoned properties and seizing the thousands of km2 of a public land. Roll Eyes Nowhere in the world you can see anything like this, even in Somalia. It's necessary to say thank you to the Ukrainian government, they fucked up instead of resolving this issue 23 years ago. They simply didn't care about this for almost 1/4 of century, and now they are trying to say something about human rights... Isn't it ridiculous? Roll Eyes

It's obvious that public lands should be freed, so... If the Ukrainian "government" has "remembered" about an existence of this public property seizers and wants to provide them with a land, let them do it at their own expense. Just don't allow the criminals to get a citizenship and they'll move to Ukraine.

Unfortunately, the same isn't applicable to Romania and gypsies... Because their migration wasn't a result of stupid political decisions. They can't move anythere, it's their home already. Sad

I understand what you are saying.
The problem is that you haven't really given the most appropriate example.

To all those question I can say without a moment of doubt.
YES!

And actually their migration of gypsies were the result of political decisions.
Both their massive coming to Romania as slaves and when they gained their freedom and .. during the Ceausescu regime when all started to be a problem.


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April 18, 2014, 05:46:05 PM
 #505

To all those question I can say without a moment of doubt.
YES!
If that's true then your government has a BIG problem. It's only a matter of time when gypsies-empowered maidan movement will be established, so you have to run away from the Romania as fast as possible.

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April 18, 2014, 05:50:32 PM
 #506

The same thing that applies to Tatars can be applied to around 700 000 gypsies in Romania. Should we send them to the only neighbor that will accept them? The black Sea?

There is a significant difference. Tatars are not loyal to Crimea, Russia or Ukraine. They are loyal to Turkey. If Turkey invades Crimea sometime in the future, then 99% of the Tatars will fight on the side of the Turks. (If I am not wrong, there are more than 25,000 Crimean Tatars in Romania, esp. Constanța County. You can check their loyalty  Grin).

On the other hand, the Gypsies are loyal to Romania. They speak Romanian (in most cases, Romany is dying). They also believe in the same religion (Romanian Orthodox)... So there will be less problems.

Less than 20 000 on the last census. Far less than lipovans (russians) and Ukrainians.

Gypsies are not orthodox. They are also catolics also protestants , their former "king" was actually penticostal Huh (not sure this is the right word in english). It depends where they have grown and at which church they can beg with greater success and reward.

And no , most of them are not loyal . They speak their language whenever they can and they are actually against the word "rrom" , they want to be called "tigani".

And they don't welcome Romanians in their ....community.
Actually they try everything to drive them out , and buy the land as cheaper as they can because that property is in a gipsy neighborhood.

This is how they managed to buy the entire city center of Timisoara , with pennies. Not paying anything until electricity was cut , water was down , gas also... making their... you know what on the stairs of the buildings .. fires on the sidewalk loud music robberies.

And soon nobody but them wanted to live there.



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April 18, 2014, 05:51:48 PM
 #507

To all those question I can say without a moment of doubt.
YES!
If that's true then your government has a BIG problem. It's only a matter of time when gypsies-empowered maidan movement will be established, so you have to run away from the Romania as fast as possible.

Why do you think almost two millions Romanians with high education have fled the country...
Not just wages...this is also one of the reasons.


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April 19, 2014, 02:45:53 AM
 #508

Why do you think almost two millions Romanians with high education have fled the country...
Not just wages...this is also one of the reasons.

Sad to hear this.

Meanwhile the Japanese weirdness has hit a new high:

http://rt.com/news/poklonskaya-nyash-myash-youtube-492/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBKN7_vx2xo



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April 20, 2014, 02:31:26 PM
 #509

meanwhile in Crimea  Grin

http://censor.net.ua/h5886
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April 20, 2014, 02:41:28 PM
 #510

Things are getting interesting.

Russians Briefly Detain Crimean Tatar Leaders

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-dzhemilev-held/25355470.html

Quote
The veteran leader of Crimean Tatars, Mustafa Dzhemilev, has been briefly detained by Russian border guards while entering Crimea from mainland Ukraine. Dzhemilev was accompanied by Refat Chubarov, the leader of the Crimean Tatars' self-governing body, the Mejlis.


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April 22, 2014, 08:56:30 AM
 #511

They were only detained for 1 hour during border control. Lots of people are detained for much longer periods of time while awaiting border clearance when entering US.

In related balancing news:

Stalin victims, incl Crimean Tatars, rehabilitated by Putin decree
http://rt.com/news/crimea-tatars-rehabilitation-putin-856/

Quote
“We must make sure that as part of Crimea’s integration into Russia, Crimean Tatars are rehabilitated and their historic rights restored,” the Russian leader said during an official meeting in Moscow.


And in relation to the above brief detention:

Quote
Mustafa Dzhemilev, a leader of the Mejlis until last year and a Ukrainian parliament deputy who is still considered one of the public faces of Crimean Tatars, said Russia was “trying to ingratiate itself” with the decree, adding that he did not recognize its authority.

Over the weekend, Crimea Governor Sergey Aksyonov accused Dzhemilev of being on the payroll of Western secret service, and said that his “provocations” were hampering the “peaceful integration” of Russians and Tatars.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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April 22, 2014, 10:29:16 AM
 #512

And an expected outcome after his statements, where he is dissatisfied with peaceful solutions from Russia with regard to Crimean Tatars, and tries to instigate unrest:

Dzhemilev, who is a citizen of Ukraine, is prohibited entry into Russian Federation, Crimea included, for the duration of the next 5 years.
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/04/22/n_6101389.shtml

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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April 22, 2014, 10:30:26 AM
 #513

Only 60% of the Crimean population is Russian. The vast majority of Norway's population was actually Norwegian at the time.

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April 22, 2014, 10:53:22 AM
 #514

Stalin victims, incl Crimean Tatars, rehabilitated by Putin decree

Those ethnic groups which suffered the maximum persecution (Such as the Crimean Goths and the Crimean Greeks) should be rehabilitated first. They have almost become extinct. The Crimean Tatars can migrate to Turkey, and the Russian government should help them financially to do so.


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April 23, 2014, 07:31:20 AM
 #515

And an expected outcome after his statements, where he is dissatisfied with peaceful solutions from Russia with regard to Crimean Tatars, and tries to instigate unrest:

Dzhemilev, who is a citizen of Ukraine, is prohibited entry into Russian Federation, Crimea included, for the duration of the next 5 years.
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/04/22/n_6101389.shtml

Turns out to be a bit of black PR spread by Dzhemilev himself:
http://rt.com/news/154152-travel-ban-paper-crimea/

Quote
Russian authorities have denied reports that Ukrainian MP and former Crimean Tatar leader Mustafa Dzhemilev had been slapped with a 5-year entrance ban to Crimea. Dzhemilev claims he was given a travel restriction order on the Russia-Ukraine border.

...

“We do not have such information. Therefore, why do you think that we have banned him from entering the Russian Federation? I can send you the same document, you can also send it to me. I've seen it, and there is really nothing to comment on here.”

...

 “It's just a piece of paper that someone wrote to someone without attaching an official seal or a signature,” said the spokesman, as cited by Ukrinform. “We do not comment on such papers.”

The Crimean parliament has also denied allegations of issuing such a ban on Dzhemilev, saying that his name is not included in the officially compiled travel restriction list which now has over 340 names.

It is also quite possible a US-lead media war, on part with "Soviet toy-bombs" from Afghan war, that US was screaming about.

Quote
This is not the first time over the last few weeks the US has backed its rhetorical comments for the Western media with questionable documents presented as hard evidence.

Last week a letter urging the Jews of Donetsk to get registered or have their citizenships revoked, was presented as factual evidence of chaos and widespread human rights abuses by the US Secretary of State in Geneva. The letter turned out to be a fake according to a man whose name was typed on the communication.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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April 23, 2014, 07:34:03 AM
 #516

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521469.msg6350417#msg6350417

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April 23, 2014, 07:37:18 AM
 #517

Turns out to be a bit of black PR spread by Dzhemilev himself:
http://rt.com/news/154152-travel-ban-paper-crimea/
LOL @ some constructions in this "document". "He paзpeшeнии" seems like a robot speech. Any alive person won't use such constructions ever.

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April 23, 2014, 07:40:20 AM
 #518

Russia bars Tatar leader Kırımoğlu from Crimea

Quote
Russia yesterday banned Mustafa Abdülcemil Kırımoğlu, a prominent Crimean Tatar political leader and Ukrainian legislator, from entering Crimea for five years, according to the region's Tatar community assembly. In an online statement, the Mejlis (Congress) of the Crimean Tatar People said Kırımoğlu, a member of the Ukrainian parliament and former chairman of the Mejlis, was handed a notice banning him from Russia for five years after he crossed back to mainland Ukraine after a weekend in Crimea.

http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2014/04/23/russia-bars-tatar-leader-kirimoglu-from-crimea


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April 24, 2014, 10:21:41 PM
 #519

New Constitution has been published at wikisource:

http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%83%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%9A%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%BC

PDF:

http://www.rada.crimea.ua/content/uploads/files/Constituciya.pdf

Maybe it will be helpful for somebody. Smiley

95 articles made me a little crazy but it seems much more democratic than Constitution of ARC.

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April 25, 2014, 12:14:17 AM
 #520

http://queerussia.info/2014/04/09/4918/

Unfortunately, a final version of Constitution doesn't include family values article. I said "unfortunately" because an old constitution had this article.

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