[CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers

[letuslook]

So basically by say, Feb if not sooner, pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

Pools will not become obsolete as there are some many small miners who have a few miners running in their basements and they want to make a few bitcoins. These small miners cannot solo mine and depend on mining pools for their income. However I expect that the trend for 2014/2015 is that small miners will stop mining as the cost of energy will rise and only large (private) farms will be able to make a little profit. The increase in power consumption moves the miners from basements to professional datacenters and increase the complexity of mining bitcoins, thus resulting in less smaller miners.

I still have hope that the small miners remain and bitcoin become available for everyone to mine!

~ Luc

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[MoreBloodWine]

So basically by say, Feb if not sooner, pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

Pools will not become obsolete as there are some many small miners who have a few miners running in their basements and they want to make a few bitcoins. These small miners cannot solo mine and depend on mining pools for their income. However I expect that the trend for 2014/2015 is that small miners will stop mining as the cost of energy will rise and only large (private) farms will be able to make a little profit. The increase in power consumption moves the miners from basements to professional datacenters and increase the complexity of mining bitcoins, thus resulting in less smaller miners.

I still have hope that the small miners remain and bitcoin become available for everyone to mine!

~ Luc

This is what I'm saying, if large farms are the only ones able to eventually turn a profit then small miners connected to pools eventually lose. Shutting their stuff off, draining pool power to the point that most pools eventually close their doors. That said, with large farms being the only ones to eventually turn a profit, it wont exactly be good for the network / your average user such as us.

[eleuthria]

pools will be obsolete and only private farms will turn a profit thus bringing the doom and gloom end to bitcoin.

I don't follow your logic?!?

Pools will be obsolete because of private farms which will destroy Bitcoin??

That's kind of like the movie "Soylent Green" where global warming caused all food sources to be destroyed which in turn caused a population boom and over populated the Earth.

Obviously I'm missing something, please explain it too me.

It's a bit of a stretch.  Mining centralization has been here since 2011 in the form of pools.  It made miners feel a little better because they knew that if a pool did something, they could just leave, and in aggregate that would be enough.  GHash.io is the next step in that, where you have a "pool" that is attached to a giant private farm.  BTC Guild sort of had this in early 2013, since ASICMINER used BTC Guild exclusively for most of its early launch, and most Avalons also pointed to BTC Guild, but these were separate entities and not within my control.

There's not a huge difference in effect between having 4-6 major pools and having 4-6 private mining corporations, except for the way miners feel about the two.  In one, miners have some control, though how much is up for debate.  In the other, it is entirely out of their control.  I've been in this game for almost 4 years now, and from early on I've known this was going to happen, although I didn't expect to see it in 2014/2015.  Most of us didn't even expect to see ASICs for over a decade, but we underestimated the gullibility of people to pre-order hardware that didn't exist yet in order to fund the development of said hardware.  Then again, even without pre-order madness we would have had ASICs, since ASICMINER did the correct approach by raising investment capital honestly and openly, and they were the first ones to have wide deployment.

These days, I'm not so sure if the mining scene is even a factor in Bitcoin adoption/price/viability.  The technology itself works great even with fewer entities involved in the mining process.  The only concern comes from consolidation/cooperation of those entities to enforce new soft rules on the network.  While mining can never execute a hard fork without the market following it, they can enforce a soft fork which lies within the rules defined in the protocol.  Things like enforcing higher fees by not including transactions, or even forcing higher fees by orphaning blocks that include transactions without fees.

[MoreBloodWine]

Ouch, lil over 1Ph loss over 2 days.

[eleuthria]

Ouch, lil over 1Ph loss over 2 days.

More like over the last 11 days : https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=pool_stats

[MoreBloodWine]

Ouch, lil over 1Ph loss over 2 days.

More like over the last 11 days : https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=pool_stats

Ahh lol, my bad then but still... ouch.

[navigator]

Actually, home miners with low electric cost will outlast the large mining farms as long as we have access to the same tech.

It was stated in another thread that someone with a data center mining farm was paying 10c/kwh. Home miners can run without any overhead. No extra fans or a/c cooling needed. I only pay 8c/kwh on average and down to 4-6c/kwh during the winter months. That rivals some data center cost and I know I'm not the only one with these rates. Currently, a home user could easily run 1-5th and break even much faster than a small to large mining farm.

[eleuthria]

Actually, home miners with low electric cost will outlast the large mining farms as long as we have access to the same tech.

It was stated in another thread that someone with a data center mining farm was paying 10c/kwh. Home miners can run without any overhead. No extra fans or a/c cooling needed. I only pay 8c/kwh on average and down to 4-6c/kwh during the winter months. That rivals some data center cost and I know I'm not the only one with these rates. Currently, a home user could easily run 1-5th and break even much faster than a small to large mining farm.

Good luck making more than what you paid for them.  The sunk cost for you is at minimum 3-4 times what they pay for the same hash rate.  That's the difference, you can never obtain hash rate at even close to the cost the manufacturers can.

[sconklin321]

Actually, home miners with low electric cost will outlast the large mining farms as long as we have access to the same tech.

It was stated in another thread that someone with a data center mining farm was paying 10c/kwh. Home miners can run without any overhead. No extra fans or a/c cooling needed. I only pay 8c/kwh on average and down to 4-6c/kwh during the winter months. That rivals some data center cost and I know I'm not the only one with these rates. Currently, a home user could easily run 1-5th and break even much faster than a small to large mining farm.

Good luck making more than what you paid for them.  The sunk cost for you is at minimum 3-4 times what they pay for the same hash rate.  That's the difference, you can never obtain hash rate at even close to the cost the manufacturers can.

This could not be more true.  Yes you might be able to mine with cheap electric if it is available, but they are still the ones who manufacture the miners.  This means that they don't have the extra cost to you that they build in for their profit.  It also means that they start making BTC while they are test your rig, then they mail it to you.  Then they keep the next rig off the line and set it up for themselves and start mining a week to week and a half before you get your machine.  They they sell your neighbor a machine, at the same price they sold you yours, and charge him a ridiculous hosting fee.  Definitely a win, win, win situation for any manufacturer of mining hardware, with no way a private person can compete against when it comes to a profit model.

[xstr8guy]

I'm about to join the BTCGuild 10 Billion club! 10 billion shares submitted and now in the top 200 for Most Shares (all time).

Do I get a trophy? 

[MoreBloodWine]

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

[eleuthria]

I'm about to join the BTCGuild 10 Billion club! 10 billion shares submitted and now in the top 200 for Most Shares (all time).

Do I get a trophy? 

Hmm...I can only provide the following trophy:

[psahx]

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

Do you mind me asking who you refer, when you say WE. It is more than obvious, that you mine at ghash (I've figured it out from your sig). So, why do you care at all?

[DrG]

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

Well hopefully some of those S3s, Neptunes and AM3 chips come this way.  There was a reason those original ASICs chose to mine here.  I don't think any other pool has had better uptime or as close supervision.

[MoreBloodWine]

If this keeps up, were gonna drop another PH by Tuesday if not sooner.

Do you mind me asking who you refer, when you say WE. It is more than obvious, that you mine at ghash (I've figured it out from your sig). So, why do you care at all?

This answer your question ?

What looks so obvious to you just got blown out of the water, so you didn't really figure out anything but mis judge a situation bfore doing your homework on me.



Namecoin investment...


Edit: Ok, so the Cex image isn't showing but the hash there amounts to like 2.36Gh/s or something... all bought with the NMC mined here.

[organofcorti]

I'm about to join the BTCGuild 10 Billion club! 10 billion shares submitted and now in the top 200 for Most Shares (all time).

Do I get a trophy?  

Hmm...I can only provide the following trophy:

eleuthria, how about rescaling shares for your hall of fame by network difficulty when they were submitted - I wonder how the top 200 would look then? Oh, sorry xstr8guy

[psahx]

Ok, so the Cex image isn't showing but the hash there amounts to like 2.36Gh/s or something... all bought with the NMC mined here.

In that case, please accept my apologies. A bit nervous past days... Diff jump, bad luck, high ambient in datacenter and 8 SP10s running below my expectations. Sorry.

[MoreBloodWine]

Ok, so the Cex image isn't showing but the hash there amounts to like 2.36Gh/s or something... all bought with the NMC mined here.

In that case, please accept my apologies. A bit nervous past days... Diff jump, bad luck, high ambient in datacenter and 8 SP10s running below my expectations. Sorry.

Shit happens, I just don't have a use for namecoins, they don't really convert for much so I figured F'it, may as well just invest it at Cex and see what happens.

[psahx]

Shit happens, I just don't have a use for namecoins, they don't really convert for much so I figured F'it, may as well just invest it at Cex and see what happens.

Actually, you just gave me a good idea, about using NMC

Thanks!

[xstr8guy]

I'm about to join the BTCGuild 10 Billion club! 10 billion shares submitted and now in the top 200 for Most Shares (all time).

Do I get a trophy?  

Hmm...I can only provide the following trophy:

eleuthria, how about rescaling shares for your hall of fame by network difficulty when they were submitted - I wonder how the top 200 would look then? Oh, sorry xstr8guy

No offense taken. I've been submitting shares since I had several GPUs pointed at BTCGuild. I've aggressively scaled up and am currently at ~8.7THs. It seems like eons ago but probably wasn't until mid 2013. Btw, I've still found more blocks (4) than I've been paid for (91.63 BTC).