[Alternate cryptocurrencies]Litecoin

[Raoul Duke]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Just ignore it and eventully it will die out, like others before it died already.

Go Solidcoin!

uh??

I don't give a fuck about solidcoin.
And the guy with the scammer tag, the one hosting litecoin sites is you, so, just STFU.

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[terrytibbs]

uh??

"Go" as in "Yaay, I love". "Solidcoin", as in... uh.. Solidcoin!

Yaay, I love Solidcoin!

I don't give a fuck about solidcoin.

I never implied you did, nor do I give a shit.

And the guy with the scammer tag, the one hosting litecoin sites is you, so, just STFU.

Are you trying to compare bearing this beautiful tag to hosting a website, condemn me from offering a free service to a project which I believe in, condemn me in some other way, or just be the usual dumbass that you usually are?

[Raoul Duke]

uh??

"Go" as in "Yaay, I love". "Solidcoin", as in... uh.. Solidcoin!

Yaay, I love Solidcoin!

So what was my quote doing in your post and why were you talking about solidcoin when this thread is about another scamcoin, in this case, litecoin?

I don't give a fuck about solidcoin.

I never implied you did, nor do I give a shit.

But you just said above you loved it... Confused much?

And the guy with the scammer tag, the one hosting litecoin sites is you, so, just STFU.

Are you trying to compare bearing this beautiful tag to hosting a website, condemn me from offering a free service to a project which I believe in, condemn me in some other way, or just be the usual dumbass that you usually are?

Yup, scammers tend to believe in scams very much!

[terrytibbs]

So what was my quote doing in your post and why were you talking about solidcoin when this thread is about another scamcoin, in this case, litecoin?

Because Solidcoins' centralization beats Litecoin or any other cryptocurrency hands down, in my opinion. The input we as a community get on changes such as subsidy is also amazing. Free advertisement!

But you just said above you loved it... Confused much?

I care very much about Solidcoin and my passion for it; it is merely your opinion which I couldn't care less about.

Yup, scammers tend to believe in scams very much!

Rocket scientist alert!

[Gabi]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Just ignore it and eventully it will die out, like others before it died already.

Namecoin was the first fork and still hasn't died.

I suggest you take your own advice and think outside the box (rather than with your wallet.dat) before dismissing all alt. currencies as scams.

But namecoin is not a bitcoin clone.

It can be used as a dns alternative.

[Raoul Duke]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Just ignore it and eventully it will die out, like others before it died already.

Namecoin was the first fork and still hasn't died.

I suggest you take your own advice and think outside the box (rather than with your wallet.dat) before dismissing all alt. currencies as scams.

But namecoin is not a bitcoin clone.

It can be used as a dns alternative.

No point on reasoning with scammers... They all will try to push their agendas and scam you out of your Bitcoin with their scamcoins.

@JohnDoe I don't see Namecoin an as alternative cryptocurrency, but as another type of thing. Sure, it can be traded, but it uses the Bitcoin protocol for a something that has nothing to do with currency, so your point is invalid.

[CAMOPEJB]

Lite means ANYONE can mine Litecoins - you don't need powerful GPU, don't need AMD GPU
You can use any CPU you have and mine coins efficiently!

Lite means system will have less hashpower than Bitcoin (because of CPU mining) - not an issue
Lite means faster confirmations of transactions what is really important for any market or shop
Lite means nobody premined coins for himself so we have fairly distributed coins

About supercomputer hostility: just give Litecoin time to grow. Neither Bitcoin was supercomputer hostile at the beginning.

About botnet: botnet issue is solved pretty easy - identify botnet and block IPs. Forever.

Why people keep spamming idiocies about ip? Wake up, do you know dynamic ip?

Now you are going to reply with ip idiocy 2: ban ip range.

Yeah, let's ban a whole nation.


As for "anyone mining", it's bullshit. Try mining with a Atom or with a i7 2600 quadcore... you still need high end hardware.

Ummm... I have dynamic IP from my ISP but IP DIDN'T CHANGED FOR 3 MONTHS!
Also, I'm mining with my AMD Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2 khash/sec in a pool and I'm satisfied with results.
I don't want to earn millions and I will not sell LTC now - I'm patient ;-)

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Can you explain me what you saying?
Are you telling me that I should mine BTC with my NVIDIA GPU, dump $$$ in new rig or something else?

[Raoul Duke]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Can you explain me what you saying?
Are you telling me that I should mine BTC with my NVIDIA GPU, dump $$$ in new rig or something else?

I'm saying that dudes like you only want BTC in exchange for the scamcoin they mine, and eventually the scamcoin you are mining will die, and the persons to whom you sold those scamcoin will be out of their BTC.

But by all means, keep at it. Mine scamcoins and dump them, I'm not the one who's going to lose my Bitcoin anyway.

[bulanula]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Can you explain me what you saying?
Are you telling me that I should mine BTC with my NVIDIA GPU, dump $$$ in new rig or something else?

I'm saying that dudes like you only want BTC in exchange for the scamcoin they mine, and eventually the scamcoin you are mining will die, and the persons to whom you sold those scamcoin will be out of their BTC.

But by all means, keep at it. Mine scamcoins and dump them, I'm not the one who's going to lose my Bitcoin anyway.

How dare you call our solid coins a scam The dear glorious leader will have you arrested as a political prisoner !

Some lose and some win. Alt chains are nice and fresh at the start but they all eventually die. NMC is on its way to nothing. Prices are 0.014 due to MM. I wonder if there will be something to take Bitcoin's silver place.

[Raoul Duke]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Can you explain me what you saying?
Are you telling me that I should mine BTC with my NVIDIA GPU, dump $$$ in new rig or something else?

I'm saying that dudes like you only want BTC in exchange for the scamcoin they mine, and eventually the scamcoin you are mining will die, and the persons to whom you sold those scamcoin will be out of their BTC.

But by all means, keep at it. Mine scamcoins and dump them, I'm not the one who's going to lose my Bitcoin anyway.

How dare you call our solid coins a scam The dear glorious leader will have you arrested as a political prisoner !

Some lose and some win. Alt chains are nice and fresh at the start but they all eventually die. NMC is on its way to nothing. Prices are 0.014 due to MM. I wonder if there will be something to take Bitcoin's silver place.

I was talking about litecoin, but yeah, you can say the same about solidcoin. and about tenebrix, and about fairbrix, and about geistgeld and about any other *coin.
Altho I believe you are not right about Namecoin as it really is different. Having low value doesn't mean much as there isn't really a demand for the service that it will be useful to, but hopefully that will change in the future. Just wait for ACTA to be approved on Europe and they atrt making arrests and closing warez sites and shit like that. Or they move to Tor, which is slow as hell, or they'll need namecoin.

[CAMOPEJB]

I'm saying that dudes like you only want BTC in exchange for the scamcoin they mine, and eventually the scamcoin you are mining will die, and the persons to whom you sold those scamcoin will be out of their BTC.

But by all means, keep at it. Mine scamcoins and dump them, I'm not the one who's going to lose my Bitcoin anyway.

Take a look at this link: https://btc-e.com/exchange/ltc_usd

BTC is safe with me

[odysseus654]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Just ignore it and eventully it will die out, like others before it died already.

Just a quick observation, Bitcoin is an experimental alternative "currency".  The "experimental" part of it means that people can tinker around with it or (since the whole point of BitCoin is that all the rules are baked in at the start, of course with exceptions) branch off different alt chains to see if there could be an incremental improvements that can be made.  The fact that the alternatives appear to be inferior to BitCoin (so far) speaks incredibly highly to how well the original design was thought out.

I recognize that as soon as Real Money is involved that "experimental" tag tries to get removed rather quickly (after which people start getting jealous of any alternatives, remember that fiat currencies behave the same manner) but as long as things don't get out of hand I welcome experimentation on incremental improvements to what was a surprisingly strong design.

[DeathAndTaxes]

About botnet: botnet issue is solved pretty easy - identify botnet and block IPs. Forever.

Good thing you solved the botnet problem.  You are aware that some of the largest botnets have 250,000 computers each with dynamically changing IP addresses.  Plus each node is constantly looking for new nodes to infect.  Some nodes go "dark" (botnet lost control, computer taken offline) everyday and new nodes are added.

They aren't a single entity which is easily blocked.  If they were we would have no global issues from botnets (DDOS, spam, password hashing, etc).  The law enforcement division from half civilized countries in the world have cyber crime divisions and they haven't been able to make a dent in the problem.

If litecoin was every commercially viable it would be instantly destroyed at will or double, triple, qudruple spent into oblivion by a botnet operator.  Being GPU hostile it will never have the hashing power to withstand an attack from 10K, 50K, 250K+ computers hashing the block chain for malicious purposes.  

[robocop]

Litecoin is, like any other alternate cryptocurrency, just a scheme to steal the BTC from clueless newbies.

Just ignore it and eventully it will die out, like others before it died already.

There is something true.

And i read about the Solidcoin on the solidcoin-webpage and i mean it is the "dirty bitch" of bitcoin and the concept don´t make any sense.
I believe that the Solidcoin is the answer of the people who want to see the bitcoin dead because they are afraid to there influence and authority.

The real one is only the bitcoin self ;-)

[CAMOPEJB]

About botnet: botnet issue is solved pretty easy - identify botnet and block IPs. Forever.

Good thing you solved the botnet problem.  You are aware that some of the largest botnets have 250,000 computers each with dynamically changing IP addresses.  Plus each node is constantly looking for new nodes to infect.  Some nodes go "dark" (botnet lost control, computer taken offline) everyday and new nodes are added.

They aren't a single entity which is easily blocked.  If they were we would have no global issues from botnets (DDOS, spam, password hashing, etc).  The law enforcement division from half civilized countries in the world have cyber crime divisions and they haven't been able to make a dent in the problem.

If litecoin was every commercially viable it would be instantly destroyed at will or double, triple, qudruple spent into oblivion by a botnet operator.  Being GPU hostile it will never have the hashing power to withstand an attack from 10K, 50K, 250K+ computers hashing the block chain for malicious purposes.  

How Bitcoin solved problem of botnets then?
I know that they were on Bitcoin network.

[DeathAndTaxes]

How Bitcoin solved problem of botnets then?
I know that they were on Bitcoin network.

I wouldn't say Bitcoin has "solved" botnets but Bitcoin is botnet resistant due to its massive hasing power.  Average CPU has say 10MH/s on Bitcoin algorithm (probably less than that when you consider some botnet nodes are entry level and older systems).  Thus 8TH/s is at least 800,000 CPU.  The low performance of the average botnet node (due to specialized hardware like high end GPU) and massive size of Bitcoin network makes a botnet attack improbable but I wouldn't go as far as to say Bitcoin "solved it".

GPU-hostile blockchains make the playing field between average "good node" and average "bad node" much closer.  Achieving parity with an enemy that outnumbers you is likely a bad decision.   Simply put it is far easier for bad guys to amass large amounts of CPU power for "cheap".  Not just botnets, but rogue system admins, EC2 instances, etc.

[CAMOPEJB]

Are you aware of block locking at every difficulty change (every 3.5 days)

Rogue system admins can loose their job, EC2 instances are not so cheap (even now you need about $200/hr)

And tell me, how much hashing power did BTC network have on the first month of its live?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Are you aware of block locking at every difficulty change (every 3.5 days)

Rogue system admins can loose their job, EC2 instances are not so cheap (even now you need about $200/hr)

And tell me, how much hashing power did BTC network have on the first month of its live?

I think you miss the point it isn't the nominal value it is the relative value.

Say average botnet computer is 10MH/s (generous) on Bitcoin network.
The average "good node" based on btc-pool watch is 500MH/s.

Thus it takes 50 computers to overpower one good node.  Even if Bitcoin was 10% of its current size that would be a challenge for a botnet.

Not if average high end CPU LTC node gets ~15KH/s lets say average Botnet computers are 1/3 as powerful, 5KH/s.  It only takes 3 computers to overpower one average good node on LTC network.  Even if LTC network was 10x, even 100x as large it would still be vulnerable to botnets.

It will always be vulnerable to botnets because the playing field is level and botnets can amasse huge amounts of computing power very cheaply.  The decision to make a chain GPU-hostile is dubious as best.  That vulnerability will become more practical if/when LTC ever begins significant transaction volume.  More volume, more value = more potential gain in any attack.

Block locking won't stop a double spend attack.  3.5 days is an eternity to double spend which only involves spending large amount of coins, performing 51% attack, spending coins again and sustaining 51% attack for 6 confirmations.  Completing double spend on an exchange (tranfering LTC -> BTC and then withdraw) would take only hours not days.

Specialized hardware HELPS blockchains by making it harder for attackers to acquire efficient attack nodes.
Commodity hardware HELP attackers by making it easier to achieve 51% of network power cheaply.

[CAMOPEJB]

Youre right but:

You said that now it takes 50 computers to overpower one good BTC node.
For LTC is now 3:1 but if LTC network was 100x as large it would be 300 computers to overpower one good LTC node.

I expecting more miners on LTC in future than on BTC because everyone has CPU but not AMD rigs.

And, you can stop any transactions in time of 51% attack. How much will attackers have patience after 2-3 fails?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Youre right but:

You said that now it takes 50 computers to overpower one good BTC node.
For LTC is now 3:1 but if LTC network was 100x as large it would be 300 computers to overpower one good LTC node.

I expecting more miners on LTC in future than on BTC because everyone has CPU but not AMD rigs.

You think LTC will be not bigger than BTC or double the size of BTC but 100x the size of BTC (and even then it woulnd't be as resistent to botnets)?  

Your right if someday LTC has 160x as many miners as BTC then it would have equivelent resistence to botnets and other commodity malicious CPU power.

Of course with that many miners the block rewards get split to almost nothing per miner.  Transaction volume would need to be hundreds of millions of dollars per day in order for fees to be sufficient to support the hundreds of thousands of miners that would require.

You are technically right.  If LTC had hundreds of millions of dollars in transaction volume it would support a mining/hashing network of hundreds of thousands of miners and that would be sufficient to be resistent today's botnets.

And, you can stop any transactions in time of 51% attack. How much will attackers have patience after 2-3 fails?

No you can't. That is a fallacy.  After difficulty change an attacker can work on "bad chain" in private.  This applies to any block chain.  You would have no knwledge it is happening until the "bad chain" is 2 to 3 blocks longer than good chain and is published to the network.  It would invalidate the good chain instantly and overwrite any transactions since bad chain began.