[NEM] Public auditing of stakeholder list

[owon]

Hello everybody,

i have a short question regarding the following NXT address:

10715382765594435905

Is this ^ an address from an exchange or any other common service? I am just asking because i have seen several accounts paying for a stake with only one "hop" away from the address above. If it is a common (exchange) address then it would be clear why this is the case.

Thanks!

[1713998643]

1713998643

[1713998643]

1713998643

[johnsson93]

Hey everyone!

I have a question concerning sockpuppet accounts, i quickly explain my situation:
during the fund raising, a friend of mine talked to me about the NEM project and showed me the threads about NEM here on the forum, he told me that he reserved a stake spot for himself and that i should check out this project... i created my account here on bitcointalk and followed the NEM project for a few days and then i decided to reserve a stake spot for myself too because i really liked the idea of NEM and it's development plans. i paid for my stake in BTC and posted  it in the fundraising thread and after that i was set on the stakeholder list, so everything is fine. but after that i did not post anything else with my account and i only login sometimes to read some threads on the forum and to follow the NEM development but my account (johnsson93) is the only account i own and i am only interested in 1 NEM stake! so my question is: how can i be sure that i won't be identified as a sockpuppet account? i thought of it when i read the public auditing here. maybe i don't get everything concerning the technical possibilities to filter fake accounts but i thought that i could maybe be misidentified because of my low activity and creation time of my account... so i thought i'll just ask to prevent a misidentification of my account because this would be last thing i would like to happen...

Thank you!

If you have only bought that one stake than there will be no further transactions associated to you. If that's the case then you have nothing to worry about.

Okay thank you! yes i bought only one stake.

[martismartis]

Hello everybody,

i have a short question regarding the following NXT address:

10715382765594435905

Is this ^ an address from an exchange or any other common service? I am just asking because i have seen several accounts paying for a stake with only one "hop" away from the address above. If it is a common (exchange) address then it would be clear why this is the case.

Thanks!

Seems to me it is bter.com account.

[sfinder]

for your mom? your mom must be fifty years old and know very well about crypto.  
but sorry, it's against NEM's spirit.
if you get a 2nd stake. ok, fine. i have to tell you my mom and dad also know about crypto and they both said NEM will be a nice coin!
BTW, i also have ten brothers and sisters. forgive my big family, we all knows about NEM!  

not sure where you are from? you just bias like a asian. my mom is a senior accountant for a import and export company and she has been following digital currency for some years. 

as the rule below, I can buy a stake to my loved ones

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

[ashapasa]

for your mom? your mom must be fifty years old and know very well about crypto.  
but sorry, it's against NEM's spirit.
if you get a 2nd stake. ok, fine. i have to tell you my mom and dad also know about crypto and they both said NEM will be a nice coin!
BTW, i also have ten brothers and sisters. forgive my big family, we all knows about NEM!  

not sure where you are from? you just bias like a asian. my mom is a senior accountant for a import and export company and she has been following digital currency for some years. 

as the rule below, I can buy a stake to my loved ones

4. How could you prevent multiple buy-ins ?

In short - We can't. Multiple buy-in will be possible with multiple accounts. We also want you to have the ability to buy a NEM stake for your loved ones so they could all join the movement. However accumulating many NEM stakes goes against NEM's principles of fairness and equality, therefore the development team reserves the right to refund you the money if an effort to unfairly accumulate NEM stakes is discovered.

I am asian too, I think people dont like the fact u called NEM a scam. Actually made a thread about it and later quietly bought not one but two stakes for yourself. U could have later publicly apologized for your mistake, that would have been decent, but you did not.

I am not saying u should not get your stakes, u have every right but  those people u warned probably missed out on a great opportunity due to your hasty accusation.

[ashapasa]

Could u please go to that tread and post NEM is not a Scam please. I think its still doing damage to NEM.

[owon]

Hello everybody,

i have a short question regarding the following NXT address:

10715382765594435905

Is this ^ an address from an exchange or any other common service? I am just asking because i have seen several accounts paying for a stake with only one "hop" away from the address above. If it is a common (exchange) address then it would be clear why this is the case.

Thanks!

Seems to me it is bter.com account.

Ok, that makes sense, thanks!

[anhonestman]

Support!

[dzarmush]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

Totally disagree.  You can't outright steal someone's money.  Send it back to where it came from.

Did someone already find your sockpuppets?  

Totally uncalled for.  Maybe someone should check the auditors accounts.  I have no sockpuppets.  

Anyway, do you really think it's fine to steal someone's money?

As far as I remember Utopian stated that all fraudsters' money will be considered as donation. Maybe I'm wrong.

[dzarmush]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

Totally disagree.  You can't outright steal someone's money.  Send it back to where it came from.

Did someone already find your sockpuppets? 

Totally uncalled for.  Maybe someone should check the auditors accounts.  I have no sockpuppets.   

Anyway, do you really think it's fine to steal someone's money?

yes, refunding is the best way.

The rule is very clear. They waste our time to audit. They should be punished. I agree their money should be spent for NEM promotion, and some of their money should be rewarded to the  audit people.

It looks like lots of stakes are going to be free. How about giving 1 stake for every 3 found fraudsters?

[ashapasa]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

I have a short memory. Please remind me what EXACTLY that I said or more accurately what I wrote. My history of posts are available for your checking. Thanks.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4592223#msg4592223

Quote from UtopianFuture on: January 19, 2014, 03:09:00 AM:

How to join after page 80. Two ways

1. Pay a fee to join in
    
    Send 300 NXT to the address      14343293611098709683
    Send 0.03 BTC to the address    1Lk5Paws9T1YpoSeLeZT7ZeSQKW7UNq4TJ

    Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding.  
 
    After you send the fee, include the transaction hash in your reply post in this thread, to confirm your stake reservation.
    Donation is welcome but not necessary

2. Promote NEM to receive a stake pot without fee

how many sockpockets do u have anyway? You must understand the only way your stake would be of any value is not my hoarding 20-30 stakes but allowing others to claim a stake as well. Only a strong community of active supporters will ensure NEMS success.

Can a person with 20 stakes do more for NEM than a person with 1. I dont think u will get a lot of support here. You are no different than any other stakeholders,  2 stakes maximum and if you have more your money should be refunded.

[abofj]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

Totally disagree.  You can't outright steal someone's money.  Send it back to where it came from.

Did someone already find your sockpuppets? 

Totally uncalled for.  Maybe someone should check the auditors accounts.  I have no sockpuppets.   

Anyway, do you really think it's fine to steal someone's money?

yes, refunding is the best way.

The rule is very clear. They waste our time to audit. They should be punished. I agree their money should be spent for NEM promotion, and some of their money should be rewarded to the  audit people.

It looks like lots of stakes are going to be free. How about giving 1 stake for every 3 found fraudsters?

what do you mean?   
give to fraudster or give to member who finds 3 fraudsters?


Those who have 10+ accounts have taken a risk. In the rule was written about donation - not refund. If someone took the risk, he pays it, because it is not cheap to find the puppets.

[Kooream]

Hi

I added a new column to my list (Profile) now everybody can check easily these accounts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgHJzpkvTvCxdG40TDJrT1VkWXRKeHBCZGhRUXdPanc#gid=6

Accounts in the same group have connection, pay attention and you can also find it by yourself. As I said it is possible I made some mistake so I would like to ask the community to help me improve this list.

Thanks
Kooream

[DaFockBro]

Everthing is within your rights its your coin. However I know what you told about multiple stack holder at the beginning and I am sure not the only one that remembers.
 

I have a short memory. Please remind me what EXACTLY that I said or more accurately what I wrote. My history of posts are available for your checking. Thanks.

January 22 quote from Utopianfuture encouraging multiple buy-ins:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4661493#msg4661493

1.) Are you going to PM the account passwords to all initial stakeholders? I think it'd be a good idea to compile a list (google docs) of everybody who is interested and paid the fee.

2.) How are you going to prevent multiple buyins?

3.) Make the color of the NEM logo silver/grey to emphasize the silver to gold idea.

1. I have worked out a plan. It should work well. List of stakeholders are coming soon.

2. I won't prevent multiple buy-in. It is impossible to prevent people making two- three accounts and register for them. But it won't matter much as our user bases would

be huge. Furthermore, it takes time to make multiple accounts. It takes time to manage multiple accounts. Later on you would need to provide me passwords on these

accounts. That's a lot of work already and if someone can go through all of that they have shown a lot of interest in NEM and probably deserve their stakes. And at this point,

more accounts means more development fund to NEM. So I don't see the need to prevent multiple buy-in. It is very different from someone putting 10.000 NXT in and buy 10%

stake of NEM. I very much doubt anyone can have more than 5-6 buy-ins. I hope this explanation clears the worry about double buy-in.

3. in progress.

January 28 quote from Utopianfuture stating that address checking would not be applied retroactively:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg4806705#msg4806705

Also let's hear other opinions from the community.

It is on page 76 now so we better be quick. My proposition :

• Keep fee as is, or add a fixed amount for every x pages to ensure growth of project

but

• Add rule that promotion elsewhere (FB, Twiter, G+) must be made by an account that has been registered & active since Jan 01 at least

Fee should not change in a radical way, people will be upset
but promoting with original (and older than the project) social media accounts can hinder sockpuppets

I believe, you have to allow new account to ask for a spot, new user is good! but what we need to do is make it harder for sockpuppet to get more share. That will increase fairness, it is impossible to be 100% fair anyway.

We should welcome new users. Just try to figure out how to reduce sochpuppet accounts. I think we should implement sending address check.

Do we still want memes ? any suggestions for "promote NEM" condition changes ? I think we still need some promotional efforts, most people sent in money.

At the least, for now, if you do not want to affect the job you have already done in the past and do want not frustrate people that already paid. Maybe imposing promotion only for new accounts would reduce the futur non desirable account. For now it would be a good way to promote NEM. I believe. Acting reoactively might be difficult to administrate.

There will be no new rule applied retroactively.

January 29 edit of terms in signup thread stating address checking would not be applied retroactively to page 81:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4592223#msg4592223

"How to join after page 80. Two ways

1. Pay a fee to join in
    
    Send 300 NXT to the address      14343293611098709683
    Send 0.03 BTC to the address    1Lk5Paws9T1YpoSeLeZT7ZeSQKW7UNq4TJ

Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered a donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding. "


January 29 Quote from Utopian future establishing the cutoff for address checking as page 80:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422129.msg4809186#msg4809186

Thanks for all who support NEM. This post is page 80 cut-off. Please check the front page because a counter- sockpuppet measure has been introduced.

" Counter sockpuppet measure: Sending address could be checked and if there were already two payments made to NEM's addresses before, then the third payment would be considered donation. This measure comes into effect at page 81 and does not apply retroactively. So DO NOT SEND the fee to NEM from an exchange, you would need to withdraw to your account first. Thanks for your understanding. "

In addition, meme promotion for stake spot is temporarily stopped. But remember that NEM still love memes.

[Xpedite]

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[dzarmush]

HERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS AFTER 5 HOURS OF AUDITION

1. I don't think that fraudsters should be refunded. Their money should be spent for NEM promotion.

2. I found two more big fraudsters and I need about 3 hours more to match txids with names. We need more people doing audition, or bigger reward for auditors.

3. I checked about about 50 random transactions and found 5 fraudsters and 4 of them are big which means there are roughly 10% of fraudsters.

Totally disagree.  You can't outright steal someone's money.  Send it back to where it came from.

Did someone already find your sockpuppets? 

Totally uncalled for.  Maybe someone should check the auditors accounts.  I have no sockpuppets.   

Anyway, do you really think it's fine to steal someone's money?

yes, refunding is the best way.

The rule is very clear. They waste our time to audit. They should be punished. I agree their money should be spent for NEM promotion, and some of their money should be rewarded to the  audit people.

It looks like lots of stakes are going to be free. How about giving 1 stake for every 3 found fraudsters?

what do you mean?   
give to fraudster or give to member who finds 3 fraudsters?


Those who have 10+ accounts have taken a risk. In the rule was written about donation - not refund. If someone took the risk, he pays it, because it is not cheap to find the puppets.

I meant that auditor receives 1 stake as a reward for every 3 (or 5) fraudsters he finds.

[mercenar1e]

why don't you take the funds found from any fraudsters share any divide them between the finder and the legit share holders?

[tfyt]

great job! Thanks for putting all info together.

[huangxuan]

keep watching.

[DaFockBro]

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