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Author Topic: Three ways to save Bitcoin  (Read 3579 times)
SgtSpike
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October 26, 2011, 06:03:19 PM
 #41

I don't think it would be that catastrophic. What happens when there is a major find of some commodity? Suppose Oak Island had 5% of the world's gold buried. Would it destroy gold if that were to be dug up? It would certain tank the price, but things would just balance out again like ripples in a pond.
Value changes in a commodity don't matter.

Value changes in something that is trying to be used as a currency DO matter, because it affects whether people will want to use the currency or not.  If there is a risk of the value of a currency dropping significantly in the future, without warning and at the whim of a random, unknown person, no one (except those who enjoy risk) will want to use it on a regular basis.

Kind of like printed money, and nobody uses that.
They don't print an additional 7% of the entire money supply in a day.  Otherwise, yes, that would cause havoc too.

In some situations it has happened at much faster rates than that. But a day, a year, two years. Either way the value of your currency is fluxuating. What does the time scale matter? There is someone with an infinite reserve of cash that is slowly dumping it into the market. Basically if the money supply is controlled, it's like we are all playing with a tiny fraction of the total money and at any given time it COULD be flooded with as much new money as can be desired.. 
True, it has happened.  And look at what happened to those currencies in which it did happen?  People didn't want or trust those currencies anymore.  They devalued to nothing, and then a new currency had to be created in order to take the old, worthless currency's place.

People are much more likely to trust a government with regards to handling a money supply than they are likely to trust a random, anonymous person.  And even if the person was known, most would still rather trust the government.
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cypherdoc
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October 26, 2011, 09:40:54 PM
 #42

"The biggest individual holders of gold—central banks, international entities and governments—are believed to account for approximately 16.5 percent of the world's gold, holding about 30,700 tons."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=1

and these are the entities most interested in NOT seeing the price of gold rise.  and yet you are seeing record levels of investment from individuals, funds, etf's, speculators, etc. all risking a huge selloff from the CB's/gov'ts.

why then should you fear the large holders of Bitcoin all of whom probably want to see the price rise?
SgtSpike
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October 26, 2011, 09:48:29 PM
 #43

"The biggest individual holders of gold—central banks, international entities and governments—are believed to account for approximately 16.5 percent of the world's gold, holding about 30,700 tons."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=1

and these are the entities most interested in NOT seeing the price of gold rise.  and yet you are seeing record levels of investment from individuals, funds, etf's, speculators, etc. all risking a huge selloff from the CB's/gov'ts.

why then should you fear the large holders of Bitcoin all of whom probably want to see the price rise?
You're not getting it.

GOLD is a COMMODITY.
USD is a CURRENCY.
BITCOIN is meant to be a CURRENCY, but is currently seen as a COMMODITY because of the risk associated with it.

What I have been saying all along is that if Bitcoin is to be seen as a stable currency, there can't be any risk factors, and it must be trustable.  Risk factors can be mitigated by increased usage and adoption, but the trust issue will always be there as long as a single person or small group of people owns a significant portion of it.  People who want to see Bitcoin as an investment don't mind the risk of someone selling out (just like the gold example you mention above), but people who want to see Bitcoin as a currency will be pushed away by the looming possibility of someone manipulating the currency value with their large holdings of it.
Etlase2
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October 26, 2011, 09:52:47 PM
 #44

Stop wasting your breath, Spike. He can't see the forest for the trees because there's a pile of bitcoins in front of him that he has a vested interest to protect. Pyramids don't work if you can't trap more suckers, and bitcoin wasn't all that discerning about who was allowed to be in level 2.

SgtSpike
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October 26, 2011, 09:54:09 PM
 #45

Stop wasting your breath, Spike. He can't see the forest for the trees because there's a pile of bitcoins in front of him that he has a vested interest to protect. Pyramids don't work if you can't trap more suckers, and bitcoin wasn't all that discerning about who was allowed to be in level 2.
It's my last attempt.  If this doesn't get through to him, I'm done with that conversation.
cypherdoc
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October 27, 2011, 01:35:04 AM
 #46

"The biggest individual holders of gold—central banks, international entities and governments—are believed to account for approximately 16.5 percent of the world's gold, holding about 30,700 tons."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=1

and these are the entities most interested in NOT seeing the price of gold rise.  and yet you are seeing record levels of investment from individuals, funds, etf's, speculators, etc. all risking a huge selloff from the CB's/gov'ts.

why then should you fear the large holders of Bitcoin all of whom probably want to see the price rise?
You're not getting it.

GOLD is a COMMODITY.

thats funny.  there are alot of gold bugs out there who would call it real money which would encompass currency.
Quote
USD is a CURRENCY.
BITCOIN is meant to be a CURRENCY, but is currently seen as a COMMODITY because of the risk associated with it.

What I have been saying all along is that if Bitcoin is to be seen as a stable currency, there can't be any risk factors, and it must be trustable.  Risk factors can be mitigated by increased usage and adoption, but the trust issue will always be there as long as a single person or small group of people owns a significant portion of it.  People who want to see Bitcoin as an investment don't mind the risk of someone selling out (just like the gold example you mention above), but people who want to see Bitcoin as a currency will be pushed away by the looming possibility of someone manipulating the currency value with their large holdings of it.

well there certainly aren't any stable currencies that exist in the world today and yet we all use them.  Bitcoin b/c of its fixed supply has a better chance in the long run to be the most stable of all if you have the vision.

but since you seem to have it all figured out please don't bother to respond.
cypherdoc
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October 27, 2011, 04:42:31 AM
 #47

in fact, all you guys are working off this theory that Bitcoin has to have a stable price to enable merchants to succeed.  how quickly you forget how many merchants got off and running when the price was steadily rising earlier this year. 

you guys don't understand markets.   i would argue the best thing for Bitcoin merchants would be if the price starts rising steadily from here.  the cloud would lift, optimism would reappear, and businesses would start flourishing.  speculative money would return to the community and many Bitcoin projects/businesses would be able to get off the ground.  what the community needs is money be it speculative or investment and that will only come if the price stops falling.

i think we've bottomed on the price.  just watch the optimism return if the price starts to go up toward its natural equilbrium which is higher than here.
SgtSpike
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October 27, 2011, 03:21:14 PM
 #48

"The biggest individual holders of gold—central banks, international entities and governments—are believed to account for approximately 16.5 percent of the world's gold, holding about 30,700 tons."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=1

and these are the entities most interested in NOT seeing the price of gold rise.  and yet you are seeing record levels of investment from individuals, funds, etf's, speculators, etc. all risking a huge selloff from the CB's/gov'ts.

why then should you fear the large holders of Bitcoin all of whom probably want to see the price rise?
You're not getting it.

GOLD is a COMMODITY.

thats funny.  there are alot of gold bugs out there who would call it real money which would encompass currency.
Quote
USD is a CURRENCY.
BITCOIN is meant to be a CURRENCY, but is currently seen as a COMMODITY because of the risk associated with it.

What I have been saying all along is that if Bitcoin is to be seen as a stable currency, there can't be any risk factors, and it must be trustable.  Risk factors can be mitigated by increased usage and adoption, but the trust issue will always be there as long as a single person or small group of people owns a significant portion of it.  People who want to see Bitcoin as an investment don't mind the risk of someone selling out (just like the gold example you mention above), but people who want to see Bitcoin as a currency will be pushed away by the looming possibility of someone manipulating the currency value with their large holdings of it.

well there certainly aren't any stable currencies that exist in the world today and yet we all use them.  Bitcoin b/c of its fixed supply has a better chance in the long run to be the most stable of all if you have the vision.

but since you seem to have it all figured out please don't bother to respond.

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