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Author Topic: All these new BitCoin clones? Your opinions?  (Read 2713 times)
robocop
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November 01, 2011, 01:35:11 PM
 #41

Not true. Those with a lot of money did a pump and dump (not sure if it was intentional) and it attracted those that want to get rich quick.
This can only be countered in a free market by more savy Bitcoin investors that don't fall for it. Those that dump a lot of dough will be the ones that loose down the road.

I really hate discussing this issue on this board. It is impossible for me to know if you are just ignorant, or just pretending to be ignorant for the sake of bitcoin. And I'm not saying ignorant as a disparaging word, just by its dictionary definition.

It is highly unlikely that anyone "pump and dumped" bitcoin. If you care to look at the block explorer, the first 32,000 blocks (1.6 million coins) were mined at a difficulty of 1 (it is 1.5millionish today). One. This is somewhere in the range of 4-10 CPUs depending on who you ask. No matter what, the cost to produce these coins was far less than even a tenth of a cent. And those are currently over 20% of the total coins ever produced. It was closer to 30% at the price height.

IF those coins had been reasonably distributed (as in, sold) during bitcoin's popularity upswing, the price would have never gotten anywhere near 30 USD. But it did. So the reality is there was a hoard and dump. And the reality is the market is so small that it took somewhere around 100-200k coins to bring the price from $30 to $3. $150 million didn't just disappear, after all, it never existed in market depth.

So if you follow reality, a great majority of these coins are still being hoarded. There is little actual commerce being done with bitcoin, and a whole hell of a lot of market manipulation as evidenced by threads on the speculation board.

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Through influence and education. Most do not have the patience for that, but the only alternatives are tyranny and force.

I suggest you educate yourself before attempting to educate others. Bitcoin is a zero sum game where the small number of early adopters win massive amounts, and the massive amounts of losers lose small amounts.

Hmm... I can´t see the problem because there are 13.5mio. bitcoins are for mining.
And yes the market iss too small for speculation and manipulation but I can´t see a advantage in for example EnCoin because the result would be similar because the Encoin will started as a unknown new currency and the first buyers would buy a lot of Encoins to profit in later time when a lot of buyers come into the market and want new Encoins.

To resolve this problem you must regulate the Encoin market and the Encoin becomes more and more to fiat money.
The character of unregulated free currency would be destroyed and I don´t believe that such bitcoin-clone will be successful with this tactic.
I mean that the speculation is good for the bitcoin because the bitcoin would be discussed very often on web and other media and it seduced a lot of new speculatores and investors to buy bitcoins for profit.
We must see that the application and acceptance of bitcoin will increase when the value of bitcoin will increase. Look for gold or silver today it will accepted much more than 10 years ago because the value of the metals are increased. And the speculations in gold or silver make it to a important theme in the media like TV ;-)

So I don´t see a problem in the early adopters of bitcoin because they can sell bitcoins and make a lot of profit only one time and more and more new bitcoins will decrease their influence ;-)
And look to mtGox on a good day the volume is higher than 100.000 BTC ;-)
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November 01, 2011, 01:45:12 PM
 #42

My opinion?

CPU coins are useful to let the cpu mine something i can sell for bitcoins.  Undecided But nothing more. Also if their value drop to 0, they won't even be useful to buy bitcoins...
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November 01, 2011, 01:46:46 PM
 #43

My opinion?

CPU coins are useful to let the cpu mine something i can sell for bitcoins.  Undecided But nothing more. Also if their value drop to 0, they won't even be useful to buy bitcoins...

Exactly.  Not saying don't mine whatever makes you coins.  Just saying the lifespan of any project with such limited "utility" is likely not very long.
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November 01, 2011, 01:52:42 PM
 #44

I'll just sell them for bitcoins as long as someone will give me btc for them  Cheesy
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November 01, 2011, 03:25:36 PM
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Thank you guys for supporting of LTC Cool
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November 01, 2011, 03:40:12 PM
 #46

Hmm... I can´t see the problem because there are 13.5mio. bitcoins are for mining.

Yes, 13.5m bitcoins that are currently 2,000x harder to produce, and are likely only to be harder to get as the award drops and if bitcoin increases in popularity.

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And yes the market iss too small for speculation and manipulation but I can´t see a advantage in for example EnCoin because the result would be similar because the Encoin will started as a unknown new currency and the first buyers would buy a lot of Encoins to profit in later time when a lot of buyers come into the market and want new Encoins.

Encoin wouldn't distribute currency like bitcoin. It is inflation that is controlled by market forces (not enough coins, prices rise, make more coins based on their cost to produce).

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To resolve this problem you must regulate the Encoin market and the Encoin becomes more and more to fiat money.

Big difference is the people control the supply, not a government mandate.

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The character of unregulated free currency would be destroyed and I don´t believe that such bitcoin-clone will be successful with this tactic.

Unfixed supply of money does not equal regulated.

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I mean that the speculation is good for the bitcoin because the bitcoin would be discussed very often on web and other media and it seduced a lot of new speculatores and investors to buy bitcoins for profit.
We must see that the application and acceptance of bitcoin will increase when the value of bitcoin will increase.

Yes this is fantastic for early(-ier) adopters, but it does nothing for a currency. A currency should strive to have a stable purchasing power, not strive to be an increasingly valued commodity.

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Look for gold or silver today it will accepted much more than 10 years ago because the value of the metals are increased. And the speculations in gold or silver make it to a important theme in the media like TV ;-)

The value of the metals are not increased, the demand for the metals is increased. Using these metals to back currency was a large contributing factor to a little-known thing called the Great Depression.

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So I don´t see a problem in the early adopters of bitcoin because they can sell bitcoins and make a lot of profit only one time and more and more new bitcoins will decrease their influence ;-)

This is not true. As the value of BTC gets higher and higher, only a small number of coins need to be sold to make a very large profit. This "trickle in" philosophy allows the early adopters to support generation after generation of descendants while doing zilch for the economy.

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And look to mtGox on a good day the volume is higher than 100.000 BTC ;-)

And this is a relatively meaningless statistic. Most of the volume is speculation, ergo most of the volume is trading back and forth. This isn't economic activity (drugs) which caused the price to rise to USD 30.

robocop
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November 02, 2011, 08:50:57 AM
 #47

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This is not true. As the value of BTC gets higher and higher, only a small number of coins need to be sold to make a very large profit. This "trickle in" philosophy allows the early adopters to support generation after generation of descendants while doing zilch for the economy.

And what is with the litecoin? The price is now very small and a lot of litecoins will bought with less money or less bitcoins (for example from the early adopters!!).
Then the demand increase and the price increase and the effect is similar the first adopters will make a lot of profit too.

The problem of all the bitcoin systems is that everytime the system starts in a hand of less early adopters who will make a lot of profit.
Maybe some bitcoin clones have a better answer for this problem than the original bitcoin but there is no system which will have a real new  system.
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