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Author Topic: The Rock Trading Scam www.therocktrading.com Exchange Review fraud opinion  (Read 26651 times)
Coinfan
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August 29, 2018, 03:47:50 PM
Last edit: September 10, 2019, 01:14:32 PM by Coinfan
Merited by Vod (5), LoyceV (2), JollyGood (1)
 #1

Fellow bitcoiners:

Think twice before creating an account on the Rock Trading Exchange, even if you get a free invitation code, without reading the below quick summary and the Rock CFO ratings:
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2FBnp4T9mz%2FEliale-Trust.jpg&t=602&c=nRPuK1z9x50pVA

Please support the flags against the Rock CFO and Rock CTO to help warn about them:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=206
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=207
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=493

and give them negative feedback:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35172
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=15648



Quick updated summary:



I) I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros and they covertly blocked all my means of withdrawal, including all crypto, 20 months ago (see balance scan below).

II) They refused several times to explain why. Now they wrote it was because the account was "dormant". Which is a complete lie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51377323#msg51377323

III) They didn't tell me about the withdrawal block and let me keep entrapping more money with a deposit and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block against what their TOS demands. This is fraud and a scam.

IV) When I complained on August 2018, they demanded my documents against what their FAQ said "verification isn't mandatory"and the Rock CFO had confirmed me by email that verification was voluntary. They removed this reference to the voluntary nature of verification probably on 16 may 2019, which is another confession that they are breaching it. But the original version is conserved here as it was on 2 November 2018: https://archive.fo/BNSfb
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51152105#msg51152105

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding my documents again.


VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they lied about an applicable european directive. But they know that the IV AML Directive ins't applicable to crypto exchanges. And the V AML Directive hasn't been adopted by Italy and it isn't applicable until Italy converts it into Italian Law. Moreover, even the V AML Directive only applies to crypto when there is fiat conversion/withdrawal. I want to withdraw bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51753117#msg51753117

VIII) Italian Law, Legislative Decree No. 231/2007, as emended by Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, i), says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50490829#msg50490829

IX) They confessed they are ready to keep my money "forever" (cit), under the pretext of the illegal KYC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158

X) For months they kept raising abusive suspicious about my ownership, ignoring the overwhelming evidence, which is a fact confirming that asking for my documents is just a pretext in order for them to keep my money blocked. No honest person would deny my ownership. If I sent them my documents they would invent another pretext.


XI) What they are doing is completely contrary to italian law (quoted above) and their own TOS/FAQ (see detailed analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851


XII) This is now on the european arbitrage system and on an Italian Financial Arbitrator, after a complaint with full disclose of identity with the same names they have on file. This was confirmed by a banking transfer to pay for the complaint cost and by documents sent. There is no longer any anonymity, but they still refuse to return my money.

XIII) Recently, they confessed several times that there isn't any security reason and that they know that the money is mine.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50381769#msg50381769
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50353964#msg50353964


XIV) They also confessed they are holding my money just to know who I am:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg49576928#msg49576928
This is against their TOS and Italian Law. But they know that if they were right, the Arbitrator would give them all details. So, it's clear that this isn't the real reason.


XV) They also confessed that if they lose the case they are not going to respect the decision of the Arbitrator to release my money: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50344427#msg50344427

XVI) Beware, the Rock CFO wrote he is ready to do to every unverified customer what they are doing to me, even without changing their own TOS/FAQ:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50060106#msg50060106 (translation and comment)


XVII) They breached their duty to respect the privacy of their customers and account security. They published here on bitcointalk almost all the personal details they had, including first name, nationality, gender, banking relations on a EU country and a full text of an 2013 email which was irrelevant to their defense:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg49989828#msg49989828 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50343815#msg50343815

XVIII) They confessed that they are not acting under their TOS/FAQ or italian law (so, they accept that they are breaching both) but claim to be "anticipating" the V AML European Directive that they know isn't applicable in Italy until converted in Italian Law:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg50016475#msg50016475 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50528161#msg50528161 (translation and comment)

XIX) Recently, on the end of July 2019, they inserted a new sentence on their FAQ: "If your account is unverified you will not be able to trade, deposit or withdraw cryptocurrencies and/or euro."
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64
They are trying to "clean" now acts they done on December 2017 and August 2018!
The authorities will see this as a clear confession of the illegality of these acts. Only changes FAQ the ones who breached them!


XX) They confirmed the main facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account with the account number (IBAN) the Rock Trading has on file.

VIII) There is a coincidence between the two names on file with the Rock and names on the complaint to the Arbitrator.

IX) Recently, I signed a message with a bitcoin address used to make a deposit on the Rock Trading in 1 June 2017: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51271058#msg51271058

X) About 9 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money. I told them I wouldn't login again and no one has login on the account for 5 months.





More details (not updated):


I have been an unverified customer of The Rock Trading (www.therocktrading.com) for 7 years.

Currently I have there 35519 euros (and 99 XRPs). Check a scan of my euro balance.



You can confirm the scan was made on 16 August 2018. Check the 2018 on the market graphic and the date on the last trade on the market, on the top right.

If you have no time to read everything, jump to the conclusions below:

The Rock is owned by two forum members:
eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648

Since June or July 2014, their FAQ states clearly: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The CFO Eliale assured me on a July 2014 email that as long as I didn’t request a fiat deposit or withdrawal after this change, I didn’t have to verify my account.

However, on January or early February 2018, after I sold my bitcoins and ended with a high balance, they blocked all my ways to withdraw, including all crypto.

But they didn't told me anything about the block or about any problem. They let me keep obliviously trading/paying fees and making deposits for months. After the block, I even made a new deposit on 21 February 2018.


When I finally complained, instead of apologizing for the problem, they kept the block and demanded me to verify my account by sending my personal documents, with contradictory, absurd and against their own TOS and FAQ justifications.

Their TOS is very clear: they can only demand verification from current unverified customers if there is an “anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account” (see point 8.3: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).

They didn’t even try to substantiate any suspicious transaction.
   
   And, in case of any block, point 8.4 of their own TOS demands them to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process”.
   But they are blocking my withdrawals for months and didn’t even inform me that the block was intentional and that there was a problem. I had to go to them.


And they know perfectly well the origin of my money: trading on their exchange for the last 7 years.

See full details about their TOS here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

   
Confirming this illegal and very suspicious act, their CFO refused several times to explain what facts made them block my account, keep silent about it for months and demand verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110




On his email of 21 August 2018, the CTO Paci wrote that I didn’t had to send any personal documents: “BTW, is there any particular problems in providing some documents, if
I may ask? [ ] Anyway, feel free to not do it, if you wish so.”

But he added a very suspicious sentence: “Just be aware that our
support team will try other methods to check that the request to
withdraw is coming from the legitimate owner of the account, but that will
require much more time until we feel almost 100% secure.”.


They had no other way to verify on their own that I’m the legitimate owner beside the many ones I gave them.

Much less a way that is going to “require much more time”.

They have been blocking my withdrawals for at least 6 months and they are demanding more time?

They have no reason to suspect that I’m not the legitimate owner and I gave then even more evidence of this.

All the facts I describe on this post were confirmed by The Rock Exchange here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057


Why I’m unwilling to send them my documents:



I) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer with full access to bitcoin deposits and withdrawals (but not fiat ones). They gave contradictory or against their TOS/FAQ explications and they are refusing to explain publicly why they are asking for my documents.

II) It's very risky to give a copy of our documents to anyone, especially using the Internet. One of their employees can make a copy, sell it or use it on some criminal activity or they might be hacked and then I'll end in trouble.

III) They blocked my bitcoin withdrawals for months without even informing me and violated clearly their TOS and FAQ and their personal word. They are doing exactly what scam exchanges usually do. I certainly won't trust them my documents.

IV) Since they blocked my bitcoin withdrawals covertly and violated their TOS and FAQ and disrespected the personal assurance they gave me that they wouldn't ask for my documents, they are acting on (to say the very least) a very suspicious way:  there is a very big risk that they won't release my funds after I send them my documents. Scam exchanges do this all the time. They just invent another pretext to keep the money. Someone who disrespects his word once, will do it again without problems.

VI) Because they are blackmailing me for sending my documents and holding illegally my money, I was forced to give large publicity to the way they acted and are acting. This is affecting their reputation. If I sent my documents and they didn’t release my money, any further publicity to their acts could make them use my documents on illegal ways as retaliation.

VII) They kept raising doubts about my ownership of the money here on this thread against all evidence, suggesting I'm an hacker or some sort of criminal, lying about the Law applicable and their TOS meaning, which confirms that they are acting in bad faith and that I can't trust them with my documents.





Conclusions:

Since I have unquestionable evidence that I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts, so I’m going to measure my words and let you take your own conclusions.

I)   They lore bitcoiners to create unverified accounts proclaiming clearly on their FAQ that "verification isn't mandatory".

II) When a customer has a high balance, they block all their means to withdraw money, including crypto.

III) But they don't inform the customer that there is a problem and let him keep depositing money and paying fees for months obliviously of the intentional block.

IV) When the customer complains, they present contradictory, against TOS/FAQ and absurd justifications or refuse to explain the reason for the block.

V) They claim having a right to freely block accounts against everything their TOS and FAQ says.

VI) And they start blackmailing the customer to send their personal documents or lose their money, again against what their TOS and FAQ and personal assurances they gave to the customer.

VII) They accepted there wasn't really an issue about ownership taking in account the several evidences sent, but they still after raise absurd suspicions about this as a pretext.

VIII) Even raising absurd suspicions, they ignore the offers to present even more decisive evidence of ownership by the customer, including ownership of the banking account used to do a few withdrawals 5 years ago.

IX) Personal documents aren't a evidence of ownership of any account and are used as a first delayed tactic by all scam exchanges to keep the customer money that is going to be followed by demands of authenticated documents, personal videos holding the documents and to a expected final scam decision of rejection of the documents.

X)   On my case, even after their CTO gave up on demanding my documents, he didn’t apologize for frozen my withdrawals for months without any warning or said he was going to unfroze them, he wrote any withdrawal would take “much more time”, without even saying how long or why.

XI)   After I wrote that if they didn’t allow me to do a 2 bitcoin withdrawal that I need (less than 1/3 of my money) I would be force to post this on bitcointalk, the CFO Eliale started asking for my documents again against the writing word of his co-founder CTO Paci. Therefore, going public about this was their decisive criteria to demand documents again
.

XII) They are using scam actions to fool forum members, like creating an alt account and posting on the same day on this thread a supporting post that the Rock CFO quoted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191


             Take your own conclusions.

   

   So, Rock customers be aware: today they are keeping my money, tomorrow who knows…
Don't register, don't look for an invitation code (the so-called codice di invito), don't ask for an invitation code, don't accept an invitation code. Better avoid them like the plague. [/b]



For an Italian version see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 29, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
 #2

I had to read all of your post, but I confess I do not understand, do not you know that in the last months more than 50% of the exchange, ICOs, even cloud mining are making KYC to their customers? everyone is now being forced to deliver your documents, you should already know this. Do the KYC, withdraw your money and forget about them

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/index.php



https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=42


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Coinfan
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August 30, 2018, 12:21:11 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 12:33:23 AM by Coinfan
 #3

Thanks for your time and answer.

I have to change my text to make it clear.

I didn't request an euro or fiat withdrawal. To do that I would have to verify.

I requested a bitcoin withdrawal and their FAQ is clear: for bitcoin withdrawals or deposits you don't need to verify, only for fiat, including euro: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

Moreover they have been blocking my bitcoins withdrawals for months (so, they have been blocking ALL WAYS to withdraw): at least after January or February. And they did that without even informing me or pointing out that there was any kind of problem with my account.

Actually they even decided to give up on requesting my documents. They only started again demanding them when I said that if they didn't unblock my bitcoin withdrawals in order to be able to withdraw 2 bitcoins I would post about this here on bitcointalk.

Sending them my documents probably won't matter. Their goal doesn't seem to be getting my documents.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 12:40:52 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 01:00:23 AM by xtraelv
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #4

Two highly contradictory statements:

I) I value my privacy very much.

I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts,


Most centralised exchanges require KYC documentation. The ones that don't are either located in a jurisdiction that doesn't require KYC comply with international AML rules (read: dodgy country) or they operate outside of any jurisdiction (read: don't comply with any law).

If you value your privacy then send them your KYC documents.

Police won't be interested because you can get your funds if you supply your identity documents.

Courts are not anonymous - not only will you have to disclose your identity - it will be disclosed to various entities (perhaps even publicly visible).

Quote
II) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer. They gave four contradictory explications on why they were asking for my documents. All against their own TOS/FAQ or bogus.

Wrong



https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3
https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/4
https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5





Their legal requirements will have changed due to their change of location.



I)   I have a high balance.

This will put you in the "high risk" category. for mandatory reporting.

If you want to be anonymous  use a decentralized exchange that doesn't require KYC verification.



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August 30, 2018, 12:57:22 AM
 #5

Again, I have to point out their absolutely clear FAQ:

“Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

But once a customer has been accepted as unverified customer, the only ground to demand personal documents is:
8. AML REQUIREMENTS

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

None of their different and contradictory justifications to ask for my documents argues for any operation in particular.

And, even this case, they have to inform the customer. They have been blocking all ways for me to withdraw, including bitcoin, for months, without saying anything.

My identity was confirmed using a second Rock account.

And, as stated on the OP, I still own the banking account to where I did a few euro withdrawals 5 years ago, when their TOS permitted that.

Can my ownership of the account be in doubt?





SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
xtraelv
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August 30, 2018, 01:04:22 AM
 #6

Again, I have to point out their absolutely clear FAQ:

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.


Yes - looks very clear to me.

Their FAQ is not their legal terms and conditions. It clearly states in their T&Cs

3. TRT is entitled to request the user, at any time and at its sole discretion, to provide further information to allow the correct operation and provision of services.

Quote
Can my ownership of the account be in doubt?

It could be. They don't know because you are refusing to give them the information.

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August 30, 2018, 01:12:14 AM
 #7


So, you are saying they can disregard their FAQ? Really? FAQ are their own interpretation of their TOS and are binding in any court.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information at any moment. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

If they could in any moment, without any ground, demand for documents, the AML regulation 8.3 I quoted would be irrelevant. They could already ask for the documents based on your quoted 6.3 on website registration.

And the fact that they are blocking my bitcoin withdrawals for months without saying anything doesn't bother you?

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

But not the deposits... deposit on, when you try to withdraw you will receive a nice surprise...

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
xtraelv
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August 30, 2018, 01:40:27 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 02:32:40 AM by xtraelv
 #8


So, you are saying they can disregard their FAQ? Really? FAQ are their own interpretation of their TOS and are binding in any court.

The text you quote of their TOS only applies to the process of registration. During this process, they can ask for further information at any moment. So the title is 6. WEBSITE REGISTRATION

If they could in any moment, without any ground, demand for documents, the AML regulation 8.3 I quoted would be irrelevant. They could already ask for the documents based on your quoted 6.3 on website registration.

And the fact that they are blocking my bitcoin withdrawals for months without saying anything doesn't bother you?

You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...

But not the deposits... deposit on, when you try to withdraw you will receive a nice surprise...

I don't know what you are seeing but I clicked the link you provided and I see this:

Which also links to this:
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64



Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status


It makes it very clear that they can ask for more information.

and



(Unsure if that applies but it would give additional grounds for asking for identification)


You would trust an exchange that breaches their FAQ (and TOS, 8.3) and that don't even informs the customer that all his withdrawals were blocked...


Their TOS 8.4 allows them to block, suspend or close any account that does not provide their request for additional information. They must have communicated with you because otherwise how would you know that they require identity verification ?

8.4 doesn't specify that they require a reason - neither is there an overriding clause that requires them to specify a reason. It also doesn't specify that they have to inform you prior to blocking the account.

I'm not trying to argue the rights of wrongs of AML verification - but with most companies it is a legal requirement that they do not control. It is something that they have to do in order to stop the authorities from closing them down.

As far as I can see their TOS are consistent with their actions and I cannot see any court siding with you. (In this case Italian court)
It is something that is imposed on a company. They cannot just release your funds - it defeats the purpose of why they are asking for identity verification in the first place.

The only thing that you can do is provide your identification and then withdraw your funds.

Tips on providing identification to exchanges.

1) Get a piece of paper or sticker and write the exchange name on it and hold it partially in front of the identity document so it is clear that it is for that exchange only.
2) Get a dated newspaper and place it as close as possible with the date behind the identification and fold one corner of the newspaper slightly over the identification. This makes it hard to crop without having to extensively photoshop the info.
3) Take a photo with a date stamp on it.
4) I usually try to get away with having part of the serial number covered or use an expired identity card. (deliberate placement of finger) This limits as to where the information can potentially be mis-used.
5) Use a flash and directional light to put a shadow on the identity document. (Harder to photo-shop)

Don't trade anywhere you don't trust with your information - only deal with reputable companies.
Use different photos every time you verify your information and keep a record of it - if any of it ever gets used for identity theft you know who to sue.

DEX technology is being improved all the time. HODL till then.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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August 30, 2018, 02:27:17 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 02:50:46 AM by Coinfan
 #9

This is the link I posted:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27

It gives me this text:


1. How can I verify my account?
Last Updated 9 months ago

    What you need:
        An identity document, with at least 6 months validity. Out of SEPA countries, you must provide a valid passport.
        A proof of residence (English preferred): it can be a bank statement, a utility bill, or similar document with your residence address printed on it. It must be not older than 3 months. No screenshots and full page is required


    How?
        Sign into your TRT account
        Hover your mouse on the top right corner, over your username and select “My personal data”, then select the “Verification” tab on the left.
        Upload your identity document: front, back (not needed with passport), photo (different from the one in the document)
        Upload your proof of residence.


Remember that the proof of residence and the identity document are BOTH mandatory. DO NOT send documents via email or any other way instead of the provided platform when logged in.

For any issue during this process, you can always contact us on our support system.
Please note that the verification process usually take at least 48 working hours, but often takes much longer and there is no way to speed it up: verification is serious business.

Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

You can check your verification status on your personal page as well, but as soon as your account is verified, an email is sent to you to confirm its verification.

image




If you hit the €15.000 monthly limit and you want to verify your account from Level 2 to Level 3,, we will mail you some documents and ask you to return them filled and signed.

Once verified, you will receive an email notification.

IMPORTANT NOTE: make sure your documentation is always updated; id must still be valid for at least another 6 months and proof of address must be not older than 1 year, otherwise banks will not credit your deposit to us waiting for these documentation updates.


    Please note: we do not accept US Citizens or Residents.

-------------


The one you quoted is here: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

The note you quote is relevant. But you have to read it all and also taking in account the quoted "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it.

Quote:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

They can request additional information from level 2 and 3. That is the sense of the despite the status and also the fact that if you don't send it it will affect only your FIAT deposits: " without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly"

It only applies to unverified customers on the terms of their AML policy, that I quoted on the previous post.

8.4 can't be applied without 8.3, or 8.3 would be irrelevant. 8.4 only establishes the process, And they breached it completely.

They only required my documents when I finally went to them and ask for a withdrawal. 8.4 says they have to inform me. They blocked all my withdrawals since January/February 2018 without saying anything.

I accepted to keep being customer for 7 years and exchanged emails with the main founder and CFO with express declarations that I wouldn't ask for any other fiat withdrawal precisely in order to not being forced to send personal documents. And the CFO agreed: no fiat withdrawals, no need to send documents.

If I wanted to be a verified customer, I would have send them my documents long ago.

The importance I give to this issue made me make this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689902.0

But my main points are:

We can't trust an exchange that explicitly accepts unverified customers by declaring that verification isn't mandatory and then:

1) Blocks all withdrawals for months without saying anything to the customer.
2) After the customer complains, doesn't apologize and demands personal documents invoking that I traded fiat or made fiat withdrawals 5 years ago, when the TOS allowed them. And holds the large funds without setting any temporal limit.

This destroys all trust and, in my opinion, is very suspicious. By coincidence, I have a large balance.

You agree with everything they did?

Do you think they have the right to keep my money because I don't want to send them my documents, (which I argue their TOS/FAQ gives me this right) even if I present irrefutable evidence that the money is mine?


Anyway, thanks for your time.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
xtraelv
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August 30, 2018, 02:52:40 AM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 10:54:25 AM by xtraelv
 #10

Nota:
per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status

Despite the status means : levels 1, 2 and 3 and anything else.


If you have funds on a centralised exchange then you have to expect that KYC and AML will eventually be required.

It is the law in almost every country in the world.

When something is a legal requirement it doesn't even matter what the TOS states. If they don't follow the law they get shut down.

If you are trading on a centralised exchange that is not doing it yet - expect it. They will either comply with AML or end up shut down like BTC-e.


Statements by founders are always difficult. He was expressing his opinion at the time based on how things were then. Things change.

Legitimate (legal)  exchanges have to follow the law. There is far more oversight now than there was a year ago. Almost every country has toughened their AML laws.

Disclosure: I've never traded on that exchange and don't know anyone involved there.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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August 30, 2018, 12:30:53 PM
Last edit: August 30, 2018, 12:45:02 PM by Coinfan
 #11

You are taking conclusions from a note on the FAQ that are completely contrary to the clear statement also on their FAQ:

"Verification is not mandatory"
You are saying they can make it mandatory at will, without any justification and that is clearly contrary to this explicit statement on their FAQ.

If this was the case, again, point 8.3 of their TOS on AML would be irrelevant: they could demand documents for whatever reason, including with scamming purposes, as a simple pretext to keep the money. They wouldn't have to wait for any suspicious transaction.

The quoted note only establishes as consequence for not sending documents demanded on its terms: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly". And this clearly doesn't apply to unverified customers since they can't do fiat withdrawals.

Moreover this note don't give them power to block bitcoin withdrawals, but just to delay fiat withdrawals. Or at most block fiat withdrawals from Level 2 and Level 3 customers.

Anyway for someone who was arguing that FAQ were irrelevant, you certainly are giving a lot of weight to a note on their FAQ that has no basis on their TOS.

You are suggesting their TOS is illegal and that they operate outside of the Law, without quoting specific italian law.

If you only can deposit crypto and withdraw crypto you launder nothing. Had crypto, ended up with crypto.

The main points are still the same: they can't be trustworthy, because they don't respect their personal assurances, their FAQ and TOS.

Any Rock customer can end up with all their ways to withdraw their money blocked for months without any information from them and be blackmailed to give any and all documents against FAQ/TOS and personal promises or see their money blocked for a indefinable time.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 30, 2018, 11:20:55 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2019, 02:56:30 PM by r34tr783tr78
 #12

Edited:

Fellow bitcoiners:

Think twice before creating an account on the Rock Trading Exchange, even if you get a free invitation code, without reading the below quick summary and the Rock CFO ratings:
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2FBnp4T9mz%2FEliale-Trust.jpg&t=602&c=nRPuK1z9x50pVA

Please support my flags against them to help warn about their practices:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=206
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=207

and give them negative feedback:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=35172
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=15648



Quick summary:



I) I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros and they covertly blocked all my means of withdrawal, including all crypto, 15 months ago (see balance scan below).

II) They refused several times to explain why. Now they wrote it was because the account was "dormant". Which is a complete lie: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51377323#msg51377323

III) They didn't tell me about the withdrawal block and let me keep entrapping more money with a deposit and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block against what their TOS demands. This is fraud and a scam.

IV) When I complained on August 2018, they demanded my documents against what their FAQ said "verification isn't mandatory"and the Rock CFO had confirmed me by email that verification was voluntary. They removed this reference to the voluntary nature of verification probably on 16 may 2019, which is another confession that they are breaching it. But the original version is conserved here as it was on 2 November 2018: https://archive.fo/BNSfb
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51152105#msg51152105

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but they said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding my documents again.


VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they lied about an applicable european directive. But they know that the V AML Directive hasn't been adopted by Italy and it isn't applicable until Italy converts it into Italian Law. Moreover, even the V AML Directive only demands verification when there is fiat conversion/withdrawal.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51647723#msg51647723

VIII) Italian Law, Legislative Decree No. 231/2007, as emended by Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, i), says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50490829#msg50490829

IX) They confessed they are ready to keep my money "forever" (cit), under the pretext of the illegal KYC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158

X) For months they kept raising abusive suspicious about my ownership, ignoring the overwhelming evidence, which is a fact confirming that asking for my documents is just a pretext in order for them to keep my money blocked. No honest person would deny my ownership. If I sent them my documents they would invent another pretext.


XI) What they are doing is completely contrary to italian law (quoted above) and their own TOS/FAQ (see detailed analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851


XII) This is now on the european arbitrage system and on an Italian Financial Arbitrator, after a complaint with full disclose of identity with the same names they have on file. This was confirmed by a banking transfer to pay for the complaint cost and by documents sent. There is no longer any anonymity, but they still refuse to return my money.

XIII) Recently, they confessed several times that there isn't any security reason and that they know that the money is mine.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50381769#msg50381769
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50353964#msg50353964


XIV) They also confessed they are holding my money just to know who I am:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg49576928#msg49576928
This is against their TOS and Italian Law. But they know that if they were right, the Arbitrator would give them all details. So, it's clear that this isn't the real reason.


XV) They also confessed that if they lose the case they are not going to respect the decision of the Arbitrator to release my money: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50017001#msg50017001
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50344427#msg50344427

XVI) Beware, the Rock CFO wrote he is ready to do to every unverified customer what they are doing to me, even without changing their own TOS/FAQ:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50060106#msg50060106 (translation and comment)


XVII) They breached their duty to respect the privacy of their customers and account security. They published here on bitcointalk almost all the personal details they had, including first name, nationality, gender, banking relations on a EU country and a full text of an 2013 email which was irrelevant to their defense:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg49989828#msg49989828 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50343815#msg50343815

XVIII) They confessed that they are not acting under their TOS/FAQ or italian law (so, they accept that they are breaching both) but claim to be "anticipating" the V AML European Directive that they know isn't applicable in Italy until converted in Italian Law:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.msg50016475#msg50016475 (italian)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg50528161#msg50528161 (translation and comment)

XIX) They confirmed the main facts: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account with the account number (IBAN) the Rock Trading has on file.

VIII) There is a coincidence between the two names on file with the Rock and names on the complaint to the Arbitrator.

IX) Recently, I signed a message with a bitcoin address used to make a deposit on the Rock Trading in 1 June 2017: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg51271058#msg51271058

X) About 9 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money. I told them I wouldn't login again and no one has login on the account for 5 months.





More details:


I have been an unverified customer of The Rock Trading (www.therocktrading.com) for 7 years.

Currently I have there 35519 euros (and 99 XRPs). Check a scan of my euro balance.



You can confirm the scan was made on 16 August 2018. Check the 2018 on the market graphic and the date on the last trade on the market, on the top right.

If you have no time to read everything, jump to the conclusions below:

The Rock is owned by two forum members:
eliale: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172
paci: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=15648

Since June or July 2014, their FAQ states clearly: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

The CFO Eliale assured me on a July 2014 email that as long as I didn’t request a fiat deposit or withdrawal after this change, I didn’t have to verify my account.

However, on January or early February 2018, after I sold my bitcoins and ended with a high balance, they blocked all my ways to withdraw, including all crypto.

But they didn't told me anything about the block or about any problem. They let me keep obliviously trading/paying fees and making deposits for months. After the block, I even made a new deposit on 21 February 2018.


When I finally complained, instead of apologizing for the problem, they kept the block and demanded me to verify my account by sending my personal documents, with contradictory, absurd and against their own TOS and FAQ justifications.

Their TOS is very clear: they can only demand verification from current unverified customers if there is an “anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account” (see point 8.3: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 ).

They didn’t even try to substantiate any suspicious transaction.
   
   And, in case of any block, point 8.4 of their own TOS demands them to make “useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process”.
   But they are blocking my withdrawals for months and didn’t even inform me that the block was intentional and that there was a problem. I had to go to them.


And they know perfectly well the origin of my money: trading on their exchange for the last 7 years.

See full details about their TOS here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

   
Confirming this illegal and very suspicious act, their CFO refused several times to explain what facts made them block my account, keep silent about it for months and demand verification: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110




On his email of 21 August 2018, the CTO Paci wrote that I didn’t had to send any personal documents: “BTW, is there any particular problems in providing some documents, if
I may ask? [ ] Anyway, feel free to not do it, if you wish so.”

But he added a very suspicious sentence: “Just be aware that our
support team will try other methods to check that the request to
withdraw is coming from the legitimate owner of the account, but that will
require much more time until we feel almost 100% secure.”.


They had no other way to verify on their own that I’m the legitimate owner beside the many ones I gave them.

Much less a way that is going to “require much more time”.

They have been blocking my withdrawals for at least 6 months and they are demanding more time?

They have no reason to suspect that I’m not the legitimate owner and I gave then even more evidence of this.

All the facts I describe on this post were confirmed by The Rock Exchange here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057


Why I’m unwilling to send them my documents:



I) Their TOS and FAQ give me the right not to send my documents and stay as unverified customer with full access to bitcoin deposits and withdrawals (but not fiat ones). They gave contradictory or against their TOS/FAQ explications and they are refusing to explain publicly why they are asking for my documents.

II) It's very risky to give a copy of our documents to anyone, especially using the Internet. One of their employees can make a copy, sell it or use it on some criminal activity or they might be hacked and then I'll end in trouble.

III) They blocked my bitcoin withdrawals for months without even informing me and violated clearly their TOS and FAQ and their personal word. They are doing exactly what scam exchanges usually do. I certainly won't trust them my documents.

IV) Since they blocked my bitcoin withdrawals covertly and violated their TOS and FAQ and disrespected the personal assurance they gave me that they wouldn't ask for my documents, they are acting on (to say the very least) a very suspicious way:  there is a very big risk that they won't release my funds after I send them my documents. Scam exchanges do this all the time. They just invent another pretext to keep the money. Someone who disrespects his word once, will do it again without problems.

VI) Because they are blackmailing me for sending my documents and holding illegally my money, I was forced to give large publicity to the way they acted and are acting. This is affecting their reputation. If I sent my documents and they didn’t release my money, any further publicity to their acts could make them use my documents on illegal ways as retaliation.

VII) They kept raising doubts about my ownership of the money here on this thread against all evidence, suggesting I'm an hacker or some sort of criminal, lying about the Law applicable and their TOS meaning, which confirms that they are acting in bad faith and that I can't trust them with my documents.





Conclusions:

Since I have unquestionable evidence that I’m the owner of my Rock Account and money, this is going to end on the police and courts, so I’m going to measure my words and let you take your own conclusions.

I)   They lore bitcoiners to create unverified accounts proclaiming clearly on their FAQ that "verification isn't mandatory".

II) When a customer has a high balance, they block all their means to withdraw money, including crypto.

III) But they don't inform the customer that there is a problem and let him keep depositing money and paying fees for months obliviously of the intentional block.

IV) When the customer complains, they present contradictory, against TOS/FAQ and absurd justifications or refuse to explain the reason for the block.

V) They claim having a right to freely block accounts against everything their TOS and FAQ says.

VI) And they start blackmailing the customer to send their personal documents or lose their money, again against what their TOS and FAQ and personal assurances they gave to the customer.

VII) They accepted there wasn't really an issue about ownership taking in account the several evidences sent, but they still after raise absurd suspicions about this as a pretext.

VIII) Even raising absurd suspicions, they ignore the offers to present even more decisive evidence of ownership by the customer, including ownership of the banking account used to do a few withdrawals 5 years ago.

IX) Personal documents aren't a evidence of ownership of any account and are used as a first delayed tactic by all scam exchanges to keep the customer money that is going to be followed by demands of authenticated documents, personal videos holding the documents and to a expected final scam decision of rejection of the documents.

X)   On my case, even after their CTO gave up on demanding my documents, he didn’t apologize for frozen my withdrawals for months without any warning or said he was going to unfroze them, he wrote any withdrawal would take “much more time”, without even saying how long or why.

XI)   After I wrote that if they didn’t allow me to do a 2 bitcoin withdrawal that I need (less than 1/3 of my money) I would be force to post this on bitcointalk, the CFO Eliale started asking for my documents again against the writing word of his co-founder CTO Paci. Therefore, going public about this was their decisive criteria to demand documents again
.

XII) They are using scam actions to fool forum members, like creating an alt account and posting on the same day on this thread a supporting post that the Rock CFO quoted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191


             Take your own conclusions.

   

   So, Rock customers be aware: today they are keeping my money, tomorrow who knows…
Don't register, don't look for an invitation code (the so-called codice di invito), don't ask for an invitation code, don't accept an invitation code. Better avoid them like the plague. [/b]



For an Italian version see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0



I dont care for TOS. Nobody reads or understands them. But I care for what an exchange writes on their website. If they say verification isnt mandatory better have a very good reason for demanding it.
I'm interest to know The Rock reason about this.
Blocking the OP account withdrawals and saying nothing to him for months is even trickier. Small exchanges dont pick fights with their customers for nothing. If the customer has a lot of money the situation starts flashing red lights.

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August 31, 2018, 01:18:55 AM
 #13

Sorry, while I can understand your point of view, in order to protect your interests and everybody else safety, we do need to verify your real identity before releasing your funds which are available.

Refusing to do so, it only raise our concerns about the real ownership of the account.

So, please, comply with the requests in order to solve the issue.

As an alternative, if you do not want to provide requested information to us, you may contact the Italian police and file a request.  They will request us to proceed and we will be ok because we do have the guarantee they checked your Identity which, obviously will be forwarded to us....  It only takes longer but it is your choice.

Thank you

Andrea Medri
TRT CFO

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August 31, 2018, 12:28:19 PM
Last edit: August 31, 2018, 01:01:07 PM by Coinfan
 #14

The Rock CFO just confirmed all the facts and quotes I wrote about on the OP.

But what he doesn't say is even more revealing.

He didn't even try to explain:

I) Why he blocked all my withdrawals months ago, at least January/February 2018?

II) Why he didn't inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

IV) Why when I complained he started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

V) What is the justification on their TOS for this act?

VI) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave him evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

VII) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?


VIII) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?

They can't claim my resistance to comply with their abusive act of demanding my documents against their FAQ/TOS as cause for doubt my ownership.

They knew from the start I wouldn't send them my documents. It's because of this that they are asking for them.

On a support message to him, on 9 October 2013, I told him that MtGox had blackmail me to send my documents and something like this “ends all trust on an institution”.

CFO Eliale answered “As far as Gox there isn’t much to add…”  which shows a disagreement about what he is now doing.


I even started this thread here some years ago about exchanges that don't ask for verification:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=689902.0

If I didn't resist to send my documents that would be cause for suspicion.

But I know that if I send them my documents, they will pick another pretext to try to keep my money, because this isn't about my identity, but about my money.

If I had 1000 euros there, this wouldn't be happening.

Since I mentioned the police first, he had to indicate the police option,  in order for him to try to give an honest impression.

But they are betting I won't go to the Police and that the police will only demand them to return the money without any other consequence for them.

They are wrong: I'll go to the police and they are responsible for fraud for blocking my withdrawals but keeping me unaware of the situation in order to keep me trading and making deposits.

And they are responsible for embezzlement attempt, since they covertly blocked all my withdrawals and are saying they will keep my money for good if I don't send them my documents.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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August 31, 2018, 04:24:56 PM
 #15

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you




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September 01, 2018, 12:32:00 AM
 #16

Your quote of the note on the FAQ at https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64 is very misleading.

And I already debunked with the help of my lawyer that note as ground to demand verification or documents:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44894787#msg44894787

The full note says:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

The note say you can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with your request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say you can block unverified accounts.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely your FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

You can say whatever you want: your TOS and FAQ don't allow you to demand verification from unverified costumers freely.

At the very least you have to have a pretty good justification. You failed to even address the question of why you did everything you did.

Don't invoke your TOS chapter 8.3 and 8.4: it applies only to situations of suspicions of money laundering as its titles makes clear: 8. AML REQUIREMENTS. You never accused me of that.

Are you going to try to accuse me of that now? How convenient... I haven't made a fiat withdrawal in 5 years, how could I do any money laundering without moving money to the banking system?

Moreover, my last crypto withdrawal was more than 1 year ago. Accusing me of money laundering would just be a bogus accusation which would kill the very last credibility you might still have.

What was the "anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account"? (8.3).

And 8.4 applies to "Users who have not been properly verified". Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspects of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.

And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear: Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing.



But what is striking from your post is that you deliberately avoided answer very important questions:

I) Why all my means of withdraw were blocked months ago, at least on January/February 2018?

II) Why didn't you inform me of this block and let me keep making deposits and paying fees unaware of the situation for months?

III) Why when I complained you started demanding my personal documents while keeping my withdrawals blocked?

IV) What is the reason to doubt I'm the legitimate owner of my account, since I gave evidence he won't be able to obtain from any other customer?

V) Why they don't show any interest on the other evidence I can provide: like confirming my identity on Second Life, using two different accounts they know are mine; and sending them a scan of my banking account used to receive the euro withdrawals I made 5 years ago?

VI) Why they gave up on demanding my documents and only started again when I told them I would make this post if they didn't let me withdraw 2 bitcoins?


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 01, 2018, 08:11:05 AM
 #17

Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

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September 01, 2018, 01:02:59 PM
 #18

Again, we cannot lower our security standards.

If we do have a suspect that you are not the account owner, we must verify your identity for your protection.

Historically, in similar cases, the real owner is quite happy about security procedures implemented for his/her protection. 

On the countrary, hackers dislike it and make it vocal in order to try to put pressure.....

As far as our TOS/FAQ, please read:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

"per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status"

and

TOS https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

Chapter 8

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

I'm positive, that you are the real owner of the account and be happy to comply with our requests!

Thank you






Sorry,

we cannot compromise security issues.

Being the oldest exchange still in existance means we do keep security as our top priority

In order to release your funds we must verify your identity for your protection (and everybody else)

Thank you

You are arguing your TOS allows you to wake up in the morning in bad mood and block a customer account because of that and I dont really care unless you start doing that!
You didnt reject any part of the OP history but you had three opportunities to give reasons why you blocked the OP account without saying nothing to him for months and why you demanded his verification against what you websites says but you refused to do that. If you arent a scammer it looks like you are acting like one. I guess your security reasons will force you to keep the OPs money also.

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September 02, 2018, 12:05:02 AM
 #19

He can't answer, because nothing changed on my activity or account during the last 5 years, except one thing: the balance got bigger thanks to the raise of bitcoin.

He can't confess that the issue that made them block my withdrawals was trying to take my money.

He had the nerve to suggest that I might be a hacker... somehow, a hacker hacked my brain, stole my memories and was able to quote detailed conversations I had with his co-founder Paci 6 years ago on Second Life like I did on several emails I sent them! Ridiculous.

One of the facts that point out for their goal being just steal my money is that they talk about doubts about my ownership but don't care for decisive evidence I have, like being the owner of the banking account used to receive 4 small withdrawals I made in 2013.

Insisting on my documents is just a pretext to keep my 35500 euros.

 

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 02, 2018, 11:04:13 AM
 #20

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you

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September 03, 2018, 11:34:51 AM
 #21

I have no doubts that you are doing all of this in the hope of keeping my money.

But you are playing safe and preparing yourselves to be forced to give my money back when I go to the police.

So, you haven't yet engage on obvious lies and ridiculous accusations who would make you even more suspicious.

If I sent you my documents, you would keep inventing pretexts to hold my money and will ask for more documents or whatever.

Because you are betting I won't go to the police.

But you are very wrong: you are crazy if you think that with the legal assistance I have I'm going to give up on 35500 euros.

This just means you are fighting a lost war: you are going to lose on your reputation, on my money and will have to answer for what you are doing in a criminal court.

Do you think the Italian policy will believe you blocked covertly my crypto withdrawals and are doing all of this just to get 2 jpgs from me?

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 04, 2018, 03:09:12 PM
 #22

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you

You keep refusing to answer why you blocked the OP account and started asking for his papers on the first place. This is very suspicious when there is so much money involved.

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September 05, 2018, 05:50:31 AM
 #23

yes, I agree with you. It is quite suspicious you do not want to provide us information requested in consideration of the amount involved......

will see.

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September 06, 2018, 02:53:30 AM
 #24

It's almost time to post this on the italian scam board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=162.0

Their italian customers (70% of all their customers) must know what they are capable of doing to customers, especially high balance customers.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 06, 2018, 11:25:41 PM
 #25

yes, I agree with you. It is quite suspicious you do not want to provide us information requested in consideration of the amount involved......

will see.

You think this is funny? That you can do what you want with the accounts of the people whose money you hold without having to explain your acts? You have another opportunity to show your reasons to block the OP withdrawals without saying anything to him and start asking for his papers when he complained. If you keep refusing to answer you can count with some feedback from me. Only scammers block accounts with no reason.

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September 07, 2018, 05:26:05 PM
 #26

yes, I agree with you. It is quite suspicious you do not want to provide us information requested in consideration of the amount involved......

will see.

You think this is funny? That you can do what you want with the accounts of the people whose money you hold without having to explain your acts? You have another opportunity to show your reasons to block the OP withdrawals without saying anything to him and start asking for his papers when he complained. If you keep refusing to answer you can count with some feedback from me. Only scammers block accounts with no reason.

No, it is not funny...

No reasons? Prtecting funds of the account owner is a very important reason for us. As a matter of fact it is the most important.... 


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September 09, 2018, 03:51:34 AM
Last edit: September 21, 2018, 04:35:15 PM by Coinfan
 #27

They are claiming that they froze all my withdrawals 8 months ago in order to protect my funds. So, they think someone hacked my account 8 months ago.

And the hacker was so generous that even made a deposit a few months later. And for months didn't even try to make any withdrawal.

And they were so concerned that they didn't even care to warn me.

They think that everyone reading this is completely stupid to believe in these ridiculous inventions.

Clearly, they don't care for their own reputation. Because they only keep digging its grave deeper.

Anyway, thanks for your time r34tr783tr78.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 09, 2018, 09:48:29 AM
 #28

I think the reason most people haven't posted in this thread is because they see you throwing your toys while there is a simple solution.

Give them the identification they are requesting and you get the crypto.


I can only see two reasons that you would not give them ID

1) You don't want to (Maybe because it is illicit earnings or tax dodging)

2) You can't (It either isn't your account , you gave a fake identity in the first place or live in a country that  is excluded by their TOS)

It doesn't make them a scammer.
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September 09, 2018, 07:37:16 PM
 #29

I think the reason most people haven't posted in this thread is because they see you throwing your toys while there is a simple solution.


An account created today that defends what the Rock Exchange is doing and completely ignores the main facts: you are an alt of eliale/The Rock exchange.

An honest exchange:
I) Doesn’t block all withdrawals without justification.
II) Doesn’t block the withdrawals for months without informing the customer.
III) Doesn’t blackmail their customers to send documents against their TOS/FAQ and keeps their money indefinitely.

I don’t send them my documents because I know it will be completely useless. They will invent another pretext to keep my money. Because my money is the only relevant issue for them.

Why don't you send me your personal documents? I'm not the one who is holding illegaly money. I deserve more trust than you.

And by the way, why have you blocked your address and other professional details on the registration of your website after 2012?

But Paci address is still publicly available.

This is just starting… everyone will know what you are doing:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 10, 2018, 04:28:41 PM
 #30

I think the reason most people haven't posted in this thread is because they see you throwing your toys while there is a simple solution.

Give them the identification they are requesting and you get the crypto.


I can only see two reasons that you would not give them ID

1) You don't want to (Maybe because it is illicit earnings or tax dodging)

2) You can't (It either isn't your account , you gave a fake identity in the first place or live in a country that  is excluded by their TOS)

It doesn't make them a scammer.

as simple as that....

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September 11, 2018, 12:03:24 AM
 #31

yes, I agree with you. It is quite suspicious you do not want to provide us information requested in consideration of the amount involved......

will see.

You think this is funny? That you can do what you want with the accounts of the people whose money you hold without having to explain your acts? You have another opportunity to show your reasons to block the OP withdrawals without saying anything to him and start asking for his papers when he complained. If you keep refusing to answer you can count with some feedback from me. Only scammers block accounts with no reason.

No, it is not funny...

No reasons? Prtecting funds of the account owner is a very important reason for us. As a matter of fact it is the most important.... 



And you keep refusing to answer what were the facts that made you block the OPs account and demand his verification. Your answer means nothing. What made you think that the funds on the OP account needed your protection by establishing a withdrawal block? Your reiterated refusal to answer this decisive question is adding to the growing suspicious about the real goal of your acts! I wont ask again.

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September 12, 2018, 02:46:48 AM
Last edit: September 12, 2018, 03:19:10 AM by Coinfan
 #32

I think the reason most people haven't posted in this thread is because they see you throwing your toys while there is a simple solution.

Give them the identification they are requesting and you get the crypto.


I can only see two reasons that you would not give them ID

1) You don't want to (Maybe because it is illicit earnings or tax dodging)

2) You can't (It either isn't your account , you gave a fake identity in the first place or live in a country that  is excluded by their TOS)

It doesn't make them a scammer.

as simple as that....

Quoting yourself, trying to fool your customers and the community...

You created this alt account TycheChi two days ago to post here this rubbish.

At least try to make a better fake and post again here with your alt account saying he isn't an alt.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 12, 2018, 08:06:01 AM
 #33

 Smiley we have been around since 2011 as you can see on my profile on this chat.... I don't need to create false accounts in such a naive way....

Sorry, but security requests stays the same.

Thank you

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September 13, 2018, 03:39:46 AM
 #34

Smiley we have been around since 2011 as you can see on my profile on this chat.... I don't need to create false accounts in such a naive way....

Sorry, but security requests stays the same.

Thank you

You are acting on an even more scamish way than this scammer https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4980334.40
Both say you may freely block customers accounts.
Both blocked a customer account.
In both cases accounts with serious money.
Both refuse to explain way you blocked the customers account.
But you Rock Trading blocked the account for months and said nothing about it to the customer.
Both started demanding verification for no reason.
Both refused all evidence of ownership sent with no reason.
Both are keeping the money without any time limit.
But you Rock Trading founder even created an alt to try to trick everyone reading this thread.

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September 14, 2018, 01:12:22 PM
 #35

I have no doubts that I will have to go to the Italian Police. They can rest assure, I will.

They are betting I have something to hide. They are wrong. 

I certainly won't trust them my documents and I know it would be pointless to send them. They aren't doing this to get my documents. They will simple invent another pretext to keep the money.

But I would be willing to send my documents to any trustworthy moderator of the forum.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 15, 2018, 09:05:02 AM
 #36

I have no doubts that I will have to go to the Italian Police. They can rest assure, I will.


Please, do so in order to solve the problem.  At least they'll contact us, forward your information and we will be glad to release your funds.

Thank you!

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September 16, 2018, 02:44:51 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2018, 08:47:02 PM by Coinfan
 #37

You think this will be just a complaint to the police: that you will release my funds and everything will be alright.

Right now you would pay at the very least a huge fine for covertly blocking my funds for months and leaving me unaware of the situation, making new deposits and trades.

Only this act is a clear breach of your own TOS, which says that on a case of a block you will do "useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process" (point 8.4: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3 )

But it's also a blatant fraud, because you mislead me to think that everything was alright in order that I would keep doing deposits, trading and paying fees, even if you knew my money was already trapped.

You are betting I won't go to the police: you wrote they will forward your information to us. This means "we will get your information in the end if you go to the police. If you don't want this, you can't go to the police".

My information will be judicial secret, they won't forward it to you. You will just be scared as hell and will release my funds immediately. You won't ever get my documents.

You are trying to keep my money while trying to prepare for a police case at the same time.

You are the ones doing a criminal act: holding illegally my funds. The burden of evidence to justify this will be on you.

I know going to the police will take months. I'm making my criminal case. I will call your bluff, but when I'll go to the police, I'll go with the certain that you will end in jail.

As time goes by, your pretext that I might not be the owner of the account becomes even more ridiculous. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would have appeared already claiming the account with all the information and evidence I have.

In the meantime, the bitcoin community is becoming aware about what the Rock Trading exchange and you do and will do to customers.

Time is on my side. Rest assure, you will pay heavily for this when i go to the police.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 16, 2018, 08:59:53 AM
 #38

noted.

Thank you

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September 17, 2018, 02:42:11 PM
 #39

You said you may freely block customers accounts.
You blocked a customer account.
An account with serious money.
You refused several times to explain way you blocked the customers account.
You blocked the withdrawals from the account for months and said nothing about it to the customer.
You started demanding verification for no reason against what you say on your website.
You rejected all evidence of ownership sent by the customer with no reason.
You are keeping the money without establishing any time limit.
You even created an alt to try to trick everyone reading this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45497603#msg45497603
Only scammers act this way. You cant keep the OPs money under the artifice that he might be an hacker after the evidence he has. If you dont at a minimum post a time limit when you are going to release his money if no one claims it with better evidence I'm giving you negative feedback.

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September 19, 2018, 02:23:51 AM
 #40

Great summary.

Thanks again for your support r34tr783tr78.

Googling for Rock Trading or www.therocktrading.com and truffa or scam shows this page on the top results, even on first place.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 20, 2018, 11:34:34 AM
Last edit: September 27, 2018, 10:52:08 AM by Coinfan
 #41

Time to give more visibility to this thread on the forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386075.msg45938151#msg45938151

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2633822.msg45938243#msg45938243

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2160516.msg45938297#msg45938297

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 20, 2018, 07:49:27 PM
 #42

I understand your point, but TRT has the right to force KYC if your account looks suspicious. I'm sure they do not need to tell you what exactly was suspicious.

So this way you wont get any money back.
It just makes you more suspicious.

Instead you should find out with what minimum of documents you can withdraw your money/coins. And you can ask for special ways to confirm your identity. Maybe in italy are official identity businesses where you can confirm your identity without sending your documents directly to therocktrading.

Do this or forget the money, since even court might decide against you.

And yes, trade at decentralized exchanges instead, eg. the new "Ethfinex Trustless" https://blog.ethfinex.com/introducing-ethfinex-trustless-2f7390955fe0

btw:
TRT = scam is just a lie (in case you wrote/will write this anywhere). Whenever you warn anyone, you have to add that this is only true for unverified customers. But similiar things also happend to all bittrex and to all poloniex customers, so you can't avoid it at centralized exchanges.

Mit Cointracking behältst du die Übersicht über all deine Trades und Gewinne. Sogar ein Tool für die Steuer ist dabei Wink                              binance.je als EUR Börse
Testen ist kostenlos und mit dem obigen Link bekommst du 10% Rabatt auf die kostenpflichtigen Pakete. Thread                                        Great Freeware Game: Clonk Rage
Für instant Handel auch am Wochenende bei bitcoin.de sollte man das Fidorkonto verwenden Smiley FAQ Ref-Link: Registrieren
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September 21, 2018, 04:39:22 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2018, 05:14:25 PM by Coinfan
 #43

I guess it was god almighty who told you that they have the right to block accounts they think are suspicious without the need to justify the suspicion, even 7 year old accounts like mine.

Because their TOS and FAQ say the contrary: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

In practical terms, this means you argue they can block accounts freely. Who cares for TOS.

But don't you stop there: please do argue they also have a divine right
to block the account for months without even informing me that they did that and, above all, a divine right to keep my money.

Of course, this isn't suspicious. What is suspicious is refusing to give my documents to people who breached their personal assurances that they wouldn't do this and breach their own TOS/FAQ.

"TRT = scam is just a lie"
I guess you know that as a fact. You must know them very well.

But try your luck, put your money where your fingers are: make a huge deposit on the The Rock Trading and let's see what happens.

And don't forget to give them a copy of your documents too.

But don't take too much time to do this, because they might end in jail and the Rock will end up close.

Every scam exchange announces clearly that verification isn't mandatory, blocks the account without any reason, refuses to explain the block, starts demanding verification, keeps asking more and more documents and in the end rejects them all and keep the money.

And the victim can't do much, because they can use their documents on a criminal way as retaliation.

I won't follow this path.

Anyway, thanks for bumping this thread, because this is all about facts: they speak for themselves.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 22, 2018, 10:43:45 AM
 #44

I understand your point, but TRT has the right to force KYC if your account looks suspicious. I'm sure they do not need to tell you what exactly was suspicious.

What a load of crap. I bet the Rock exchange paid you to post this trash here. You havent post anything on the scam board for almost 1 year and suddenly you had an urge to post this trash defending scammers. Accepting being paid for supporting scammers can cost you on your reputation.

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September 22, 2018, 11:49:36 AM
 #45

To the Rock Trading owner Andrea Medri. Its public information he signed a post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
You trick people to create unverified accounts saying in your website "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27
You wait until the user has serious money on his account and then you block his withdrawals.
But you say nothing about the block and let the user keep depositing more money for months even if your own TOS says in this case you must do "useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process" TOS point 8.4 https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3
When the user tries to withdraw his money he finally realize he cant.
When he complains you keep his money blocked and blackmail him to send his personal documents against your TOS.
You ignored all the evidence the OP showed to you that he is the owner of the account.
You ignored the other decisive evidence that he can present.
You first asked for the OPs documents then you wrote the OP didnt have to send them, but you added his money would be kept locked for "much more time". When the OP said he would expose this here you started asking again for his documents as a pretext. OP conclusion X and XI.
You confirmed the facts described on the OP here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
When asked to explain why you blocked the OPs account and demanded verification in the first place you refused to answer repeatedly or gave scamish answers on this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110
You tried to trick members of the forum by creating a new alt account to defend your acts https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191
You are paying for members to post here defending you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46020217#msg46020217
You refused to establish a time limit to return the money.
You clearly are trying to keep the OPs money. Andrea Medri you are a scammer!
Enjoy your new feedback. Op give him negative feedback too https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35172

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September 24, 2018, 03:05:54 AM
 #46

Truly demolish summary to the Rock trading. Thanks.

I'm still in contention mode. This isn't yet an all means war. Perhaps they will realize that my money doesn't justify ending in jail, getting the Rock license revoked and paying a fine.

But it seems inevitable that I'll give them both (Paci is in this too: actually it was him who wrote I didn't have to send my documents but they would keep my money much more time, but with eliale agreement) negative feedback and post their pics, names and other information on the investigation board under vile big capital letters.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 24, 2018, 05:58:26 AM
 #47

Truly demolish summary to the Rock trading. Thanks.

I'm still in contention mode. This isn't yet an all means war. Perhaps they will realize that my money doesn't justify ending in jail, getting the Rock license revoked and paying a fine.

But it seems inevitable that I'll give them both (Paci is in this too: actually it was him who wrote I didn't have to send my documents but they would keep my money much more time, but with eliale agreement) negative feedback and post their pics, names and other information on the investigation board under vile big capital letters.

Sorry but, we cannot by European laws bypass AML/KYC compliance rules. Also, in you specific case, we do have to verify if you are the real owner of the account for your protection (if you are the real owner)

Thank you

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September 25, 2018, 10:45:32 AM
 #48

Truly demolish summary to the Rock trading. Thanks.

I'm still in contention mode. This isn't yet an all means war. Perhaps they will realize that my money doesn't justify ending in jail, getting the Rock license revoked and paying a fine.

But it seems inevitable that I'll give them both (Paci is in this too: actually it was him who wrote I didn't have to send my documents but they would keep my money much more time, but with eliale agreement) negative feedback and post their pics, names and other information on the investigation board under vile big capital letters.

Sorry but, we cannot by European laws bypass AML/KYC compliance rules. Also, in you specific case, we do have to verify if you are the real owner of the account for your protection (if you are the real owner)

Thank you

By invoking European Law you just confessed publicly:


I) Something that is obvious, that your TOS/FAQ don't allow you to do what you are doing.


II) That you have been operating outside of European Law, by allowing unverified accounts for years.


The Italian criminal court is going to love this.


Thank you.


PS. You have new feedback.

Your invocation of European Law is completely bogus. You know nothing about it. Just a pretext to keep my money.

Next: Post this on Reddit.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 26, 2018, 09:55:25 AM
 #49

Seems like you are missing some informations:


1) On April 26th we moved operations from Malta to Italy and you accepted the new TOS, Privacy, AML and Risk policies. Please read it carefully.

In particular read out TOS as following:

8. AML REQUIREMENTS

1. When registering on the Website, the User is required to provide any necessary information and/or documents that TRT deems, in its sole discretion, to be suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy (see the Anti-Money Laundering Policy adopted by TRT).

2. During the account verification process, the User must provide all documents that will be required. In particular, by registering an account on the Website, the user agrees to provide TRT, or another party delegated to carry out the anti-money laundering obligations imposed by law on behalf of TRT, with updated, accurate and complete information as required by the registration process, as well as to keep this information updated.

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

5. Documents, data, photos and other information material collected during the registration and verification of an account are subject to the retention requirement that TRT has to comply with under the anti-money laundering regulations, also using the services offered by a third party provider.

6. TRT applies regular checks on user accounts also through the request to provide information on the origin of the Assets if and when expressed or converted into virtual currency or legal tender currency. In addition, TRT is entitled to block or freeze any User account, at its discretion and without prior notice, in case of suspected illegal origin of the Assets.

2) You may find AML directives at https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/criminal-justice/anti-money-laundering-and-counter-terrorist-financing_en  Please read the 4th and the 5th  Note: AML directives are the same in Malta and Italy....... just in case you are not familiar with EU rules.

On top of the above, we do have to verify if you are the real owner of the account because, if your account has been hacked, we do care about your funds.

Thank you!

PS: We will no longer reply to this issue having already provided enough answers.  Regards






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September 27, 2018, 11:23:08 AM
Last edit: September 27, 2018, 11:54:27 AM by Coinfan
 #50

Seems like you are missing some informations:


1) On April 26th we moved operations from Malta to Italy and you accepted the new TOS, Privacy, AML and Risk policies. Please read it carefully.

In particular read out TOS as following:

8. AML REQUIREMENTS

1. When registering on the Website, the User is required to provide any necessary information and/or documents that TRT deems, in its sole discretion, to be suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy (see the Anti-Money Laundering Policy adopted by TRT).

2. During the account verification process, the User must provide all documents that will be required. In particular, by registering an account on the Website, the user agrees to provide TRT, or another party delegated to carry out the anti-money laundering obligations imposed by law on behalf of TRT, with updated, accurate and complete information as required by the registration process, as well as to keep this information updated.

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

5. Documents, data, photos and other information material collected during the registration and verification of an account are subject to the retention requirement that TRT has to comply with under the anti-money laundering regulations, also using the services offered by a third party provider.

6. TRT applies regular checks on user accounts also through the request to provide information on the origin of the Assets if and when expressed or converted into virtual currency or legal tender currency. In addition, TRT is entitled to block or freeze any User account, at its discretion and without prior notice, in case of suspected illegal origin of the Assets.

2) You may find AML directives at https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/criminal-justice/anti-money-laundering-and-counter-terrorist-financing_en  Please read the 4th and the 5th  Note: AML directives are the same in Malta and Italy....... just in case you are not familiar with EU rules.

On top of the above, we do have to verify if you are the real owner of the account because, if your account has been hacked, we do care about your funds.

Thank you!

PS: We will no longer reply to this issue having already provided enough answers.  Regards

I already completely debunked this chapter 8 of your TOS as a ground for demanding verification.

Rule 1 applies only during registration. I'm registered for more than 7 years.
Rule 2 describes the verification process: doesn't create any new ground to start one and also reports it self to the "as required by the registration process" or to update information on the documents sent.
Rule 3 and 6 depends on suspicious transactions or suspicions on the illegal origin of the founds. You haven't even tried to substantiate this. Please, do try. It will be another evidence that you lie and scam.
Rule 4: Quoting my self: "applies to "Users who have not been properly verified". Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspects of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.
And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear: Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing."
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

You quoted European directives?! You have to know that directives are only binding on State members in order to compel them to approve national legislation. They are completely irrelevant on the relations between private persons, as you well know.

The 5th Amendment (DIRECTIVE (EU) 2018/843) that also addresses virtual currency exchanges gives Italy and other members until 10 january 2020 to convert it into national law.

Invoking irrelevant European Law is another of your lies and invented pretexts to keep my money. Your post is another strong evidence of your fraudulent intentions since the start that I'll present to the Italian criminal court.

Thank you Smiley.

PS. If you are afraid to keep posting here, you can always keep using your scams of creating an alt account to post or paying forum members to do it in your behalf. I'll invoke these deceiving practices of you in court too. They confirm a pattern of behavior.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 28, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
 #51

Paci, the second owner of the Rock Trading and CTO, is as guilty of this scam as Eliale, so he also received a new feedback.

He wrote a very suspicious email on 21 August 2018 where he told me I didn't have to send my documents, but my money would be locked for "much more time".

And he will also face criminal charges.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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September 29, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
 #52


To the Rock Trading owner Andrea Medri. Its public information he signed a post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
You trick people to create unverified accounts saying in your website "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27
You wait until the user has serious money on his account and then you block his withdrawals.
But you say nothing about the block and let the user keep depositing more money for months even if your own TOS says in this case you must do "useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process" TOS point 8.4 https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3
When the user tries to withdraw his money he finally realize he cant.
When he complains you keep his money blocked and blackmail him to send his personal documents against your TOS.
You ignored all the evidence the OP showed to you that he is the owner of the account.
You ignored the other decisive evidence that he can present.
You first asked for the OPs documents then you wrote the OP didnt have to send them, but you added his money would be kept locked for "much more time". When the OP said he would expose this here you started asking again for his documents as a pretext. OP conclusion X and XI.
You confirmed the facts described on the OP here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
When asked to explain why you blocked the OPs account and demanded verification in the first place you refused to answer repeatedly or gave scamish answers on this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110
You tried to trick members of the forum by creating a new alt account to defend your acts https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191
You are paying for members to post here defending you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46020217#msg46020217
You invented fake European Laws to try to justify your acts.
You refused to establish a time limit to return the money.
You clearly are trying to keep the OPs money.
Andrea Medri you are a scammer!
Just added another justification.

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September 30, 2018, 08:45:22 PM
 #53

They still aren't aware about how much in deep trouble they are.

They should consult a lawyer to figure that out.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 02, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
 #54

Sorry, while I can understand your point of view, in order to protect your interests and everybody else safety, we do need to verify your real identity before releasing your funds which are available.

Refusing to do so, it only raise our concerns about the real ownership of the account.

So, please, comply with the requests in order to solve the issue.

As an alternative, if you do not want to provide requested information to us, you may contact the Italian police and file a request.  They will request us to proceed and we will be ok because we do have the guarantee they checked your Identity which, obviously will be forwarded to us....  It only takes longer but it is your choice.

Thank you

Andrea Medri
TRT CFO


Smiley we have been around since 2011 as you can see on my profile on this chat.... I don't need to create false accounts in such a naive way....

Sorry, but security requests stays the same.

Thank you

Just quoting these posts, because they will be important on court: confirmation of the facts I articulated on the OP and a clear lie from the Rock CFO.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 03, 2018, 02:57:41 PM
 #55

I'm posting this on several sites.

Soon it will be on the top results every time anyone googles for Rock Trading.

It's already on the top when the search is Rock trading scam or truffa.

This is just beginning.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 03, 2018, 06:10:19 PM
 #56

You should really go to the italian police, and by confirming your identity, you will sure receive back your money Smiley (without sending any ID to therocktrading)

NON DO ASSISTENZA PRIVATA - The Rock Trading (ref): A good exchange since 2007.
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October 03, 2018, 06:14:02 PM
Last edit: October 03, 2018, 06:28:11 PM by eliale
 #57

Exactly, I agree 100%  Smiley

Basically, there is nothing we can do unless he/she is providing requested information to us or directly to the authorities.

Of course, if the claimant is not the account owner.... well this is another story....

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October 05, 2018, 11:39:39 AM
Last edit: October 05, 2018, 11:53:58 AM by Coinfan
 #58

You should really go to the italian police, and by confirming your identity, you will sure receive back your money Smiley (without sending any ID to therocktrading)

I'll go to the Italian police, but I'll go also to the Pubblico Ministero.

http://www.giustizia.lazio.it/appello.it/base.php?sx=sx_pr.php&inf=proc_rep.php&bc=71

procura.roma@giustizia.it

https://www.denunceviaweb.poliziadistato.it/polposta/wfintro.aspx

https://www.commissariatodips.it/area-riservata/accedi.html?sender=editsegnalazioni

I already have full evidence for all the facts for a criminal charge of fraud (truffa: article 640 of the Codice Penale italiano)

Any exchange that says clearly verification isn't mandatory, waits for a high balance on the account and then blocks covertly withdrawals without any reason, letting the customer unaware of the block keep entrapping more money with more deposits and, when he complains, blackmails him to verify against their FAQ/TOS, is a fraud and a scam. They know a few customers won't ever send their documents, so it's money in the pocket.

This is enough to get the Rock close and their owners fined and, most probably, jailed.

But when I'll go to police/Pubblico Ministero, I'll bring more clear evidence also of embezzlement (Appropriazione indebita, article 646 of the Codice Penale italiano).

This will take some more time. They will have to keep blocking my money some more time. Go on, keep digging your hole.

But with a charge of fraud AND embezzlement  it's jail time assured.

They think that when I'll go to the police/Pubblico Ministero, they will just return my money and everything will be alright, no legal sanctions to them. HAHAHAHA

I'll see them both in jail.

Since you still are promoting the Rock, I guess you still trust them (at your peril). Make them a favor, put a little sense on their heads or soon there won't be an exchange to promote.

Anyway, thanks for your post.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 06, 2018, 11:08:49 AM
 #59

Again?  Wink

It is probably the tenth time you are keeping saying the same things just to keep this chat on top.

Instead, please,  act and move on calling each single office you are indicating. At least, we will be able to verify your identity, provide your funds assuming you are the owner, and finally close your account.

So, please, keep your promises and contact the Italian authorities (all of them) asap .

or... provide us requested information

Thank you!

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October 07, 2018, 12:53:16 PM
Last edit: October 07, 2018, 01:14:40 PM by Coinfan
 #60

You know you can't invoke your TOS to justify what you are doing. On the contrary, you are breaching it.

You know you can't invoke European Law. There is none applicable.

So, as a last resort you have to raise suspicious about my ownership to try to justify this. Yes the real me has been more than 2 months without checking his Rock account or his email. Shore.

I won't login again until you release my money. I have all the data I need for the legal case. Forget about accepting any new TOS.

In a couple months more, even you will be ashamed of raising suspicions. It would confirm evidently your scam.

A business man weights rationally the risks and rewards and gives up if the first are too big. You clearly aren't one.

But not even you would risk the destruction of your reputation, the close of the Rock, a fine and imprisonment out of pure emotional stubbornness.

Therefore, Occan's razor: you planned this from the start and still are trying to get my money.


I'll go to the italian police/pubblico ministero, but I have time to do it. Do keep increasing your responsibility.

This is just starting. Keep googling The Rock Trading, soon you'll see a surprise.




SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 09, 2018, 08:43:23 PM
 #61

The Rock has other customers accusing them of being a fraud, retaining their money or of adopting bad practices. These complains have more than 3 months:

http://bittrust.org/service/the-rock-currency-exchange:
"Davide Barbieri - October 29, 2017
It's a fraud."


https://www.coinstaker.com/bitcoin-exchanges/the-rock-trading-review/
"Suffering
Only problem being when you cash out your money never arrives. Waiting for more than three weeks now. Here’s to hoping they ran into a technical issue and it will be resolved.
1  Reply Edit
1 year ago"

https://www.cryptocompare.com/exchanges/the-rock-trading/overview
"cryptorumblefish
3 months ago
Is this already closed?"

"sygma0
1 year ago
The Rock doesn't send any email notification for account creation, documents received, verification, ...
Since they don't look professional, I asked them to close my account but they said they can't delete my documents because they are handled by a third party !
This exchange sucks and will probably shutdown soon."

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 10, 2018, 03:55:07 AM
 #62

 3 possible solutions to solve your problem:

1) Fast one: Provide documents requested and, if you are the owner of the account, you'll solve it in one or 2 business days

2) Between 3 months to 6 months: Contact all the authorities you indicated and, if you are the real owner of the account, as soon as they'll provide us your identity, we will unlock your account. From our side, possible defamation lawsuit against you

3) Between 6 months and few years (italian justice timing): Keep on defaming us, wait few months before contacting authorities, contact them and as soon as they'll provide us your identity, we will most likely start a defamation lawsuit against you.

It is your choice.......  of course, if you are not the real owner of funds, all this is quite understandable.

So, regardless which point you'll decide to follow, we will get your identity in order to be compliant. As simple as that.

Thank you!

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October 11, 2018, 12:44:14 PM
 #63

3 possible solutions to solve your problem:

1) Fast one: Provide documents requested and, if you are the owner of the account, you'll solve it in one or 2 business days

2) Between 3 months to 6 months: Contact all the authorities you indicated and, if you are the real owner of the account, as soon as they'll provide us your identity, we will unlock your account. From our side, possible defamation lawsuit against you

3) Between 6 months and few years (italian justice timing): Keep on defaming us, wait few months before contacting authorities, contact them and as soon as they'll provide us your identity, we will most likely start a defamation lawsuit against you.

It is your choice.......  of course, if you are not the real owner of funds, all this is quite understandable.

So, regardless which point you'll decide to follow, we will get your identity in order to be compliant. As simple as that.

Thank you!

The Rock CFO just confessed publicly:

I) I won't, but they wrote that even if I sent my documents, they would still have to decide if the account was mine. They would invent another of their pretexts to say it isn't and keep my money.

II) Even if they had 100% certainty that the money is mine, they intend to keep my money FOR GOOD under the pretext that they have to be "compliant" with an invented applicable European Law that they know isn't applicable, since Directives only apply to States and not to private persons.

III) They claim wanting me to go to the italian authorities but they are threatening with a pathetic law suit if I go. Clearly, they are afraid of their authorities. They are just bluffing.

But they expect bitcoiners will believe that what they are doing isn't a scam.

They are destroying their reputation on their own.


PS. Search exceptio veritatis. And you are defaming me by saying that I'm a hacker who hacked my Rock account.

Until you recognize, clearly and without reservations, here or by email, my ownership of my money we won't have nothing meaningful to say. All evidence confirm that you are trying to scam me.

Yes, this will drag on for months, but in the end the police/criminal court will force you to return my money. So, you'll end with nothing beside all this free publicity and the jail time you'll get for fraud and embezzlement.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 11, 2018, 01:09:28 PM
 #64

Never said you are an hacker  Wink Always said we need to verify if you are the owner

So, please, procede with option 2 or 3

Thank you!!


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October 11, 2018, 03:41:55 PM
Last edit: October 31, 2018, 01:31:45 AM by mprep
 #65

If you think you'll walk without punishment after all you done when I complain to the police you are delusional. Consult a good lawyer.

If you weren't scamming you wouldn't keep raising absurd suspicious about my ownership.

This won't end without as a first step my ownership is completely settled, by the passing of time without any other claim but mine plus all the irrefutable evidence I have or by your clear recognition.




These sites will be on the top google results in no time:

https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com

https://therocktradingscam.home.blog

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 14, 2018, 06:25:14 PM
 #66

That scammer wont recognize that you are the legit owner unless under very pressure or they will lose the last excuse they have to keep your money. He even confirmed he is going to keep it forever because you are refusing to comply with a verification they say isnt mandatory. What a surprise. I forgot to reward the scammer for his scamish practices of creating an alt account and paying members to post on his defense.

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October 14, 2018, 08:07:14 PM
 #67

3 possible solutions to solve your problem:

1) Fast one: Provide documents requested and, if you are the owner of the account, you'll solve it in one or 2 business days

2) Between 3 months to 6 months: Contact all the authorities you indicated and, if you are the real owner of the account, as soon as they'll provide us your identity, we will unlock your account. From our side, possible defamation lawsuit against you

3) Between 6 months and few years (italian justice timing): Keep on defaming us, wait few months before contacting authorities, contact them and as soon as they'll provide us your identity, we will most likely start a defamation lawsuit against you.

It is your choice.......  of course, if you are not the real owner of funds, all this is quite understandable.

So, regardless which point you'll decide to follow, we will get your identity in order to be compliant. As simple as that.

Thank you!

I don't get it.

If he never send fiat only crypto. What the AML/KYC has to do here?

If you need to be sure he is the owner of the account, can't he just send coin from an addresse he use before, like a blockchain proof, this should do the trick from your side right?

Please if my 2 statements are right, let the guy go with his coins and his privacy.

My 2Cts,

Good luck to both part, we are crypto, we can provide other kind of proof. Smiley

If my post help you, you can tip me in FeatherCoin here: 6wgNso1AWVuGy5P5Rpc2bBoVaNaKzbxmyi
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October 15, 2018, 01:30:51 AM
 #68

Thank you for your supporting post.

I still have the account (on a different exchange) from which I deposit (entrapped) XRPs on the Rock after their covert block of my withdrawals.

But they don't want to see any more evidence of my ownership. I actually made a few small fiat withdrawals 5 years ago, when their TOS allowed unverified customers to do them. I still own the banking account used for these withdrawals. But they don't care.

They are assuming two wrong things: that I have something to hide, so I won't go to the police. And that they won't be punished by italian courts. So, they can bluff and appear honest: "please, go to the police".

However, they:
I) Blocked all my crypto withdrawals.

II) Refused several times to explain why, including on this thread.

III) Didn't tell me about the block and let me keep entrapping money with deposits and trading/paying fees for months unaware of the block.

IV) When I complained, they demanded my documents when their FAQ says "verification isn't mandatory".

V) Since I argued this, they eventually said I didn't have to send my documents, but said that my money would be kept blocked "much more time".

VI) When I said I would take this public, they started demanding verification again.

VII) Mandatory verification has no basis on their TOS, so they invented an applicable european directive. But they know very well directives only apply to States in order for them to create legislation. Italy hasn't adopted it yet, so there is no duty of mandatory verification or they couldn't allow unverified accounts in the first place.

VIII) They just confirmed they are going to keep my money for good, even if there is 100% evidence that it's mine.

If I had there 1000 euros they wouldn't be doing this. They are very hoping they will be able to keep my money.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 16, 2018, 07:16:49 AM
 #69

Coinfan: just out of curiosity: why don't you just go to the police and let them handle the issue?

Visit my shitcoin blog / become part of my filter bubble: OCOIN.DEV
How to not get scammed in cryptoland: https://ocoin.dev/en/blog/2019-09-08/why-research-on-cryptocurrencies-is-important // Interested in Mimblewimble, Beam / Grin? Visit mimblewimble.support
Use cointracking.info for tax declaration & tracking of your trades!
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October 16, 2018, 12:20:31 PM
Last edit: October 31, 2018, 01:31:57 AM by mprep
 #70

In my country our ID card is a global card with our full id numbers of all public services. It's so danger to give a copy of it that is illegal for any entity to demand it. They can only verify the numbers.

I'll go to the police, but it will be my last option, since I'll have to send them a digital copy of my id card. Who knows how many low officials, secretaries, will handle the copy.

I know a guy who had his life destroyed because of a copy of his id card.

Besides I'm warning the community about them. I Know I won't have patience after this is solved.

But thanks for your interest allyouracid.



Googling for The Rock Trading truffa gives 5 of my threads/sites on the top.

Googling for The Rock Trading scam gives 2 and counting.


Two more to go:
https://therocktradingscam.wixsite.com/therocktrading/home/the-rock-trading-selective-scam
https://therocktradingscam.video.blog/2018/10/06/selective-scam-at-the-rock-trading/

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 17, 2018, 12:17:33 PM
 #71

These sites will be on the top google results in no time:

https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com

https://therocktradingscam.home.blog
just an offtopic but if you really want the websites to be in top results you should purchase .com domains
also i hope you will get your money back sooner than later

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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October 18, 2018, 02:21:56 PM
 #72

Yes, I'll probably have to do that.

Your more clear opinion about their scam is important. More pressure to them.

Anyway, thank you for your post.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 20, 2018, 05:01:09 PM
 #73

They lost the battle here and retreated.

Now a new battle is ranging on the italian scam board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
so they have started to ignore this thread or did you get your money  ?

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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October 21, 2018, 09:40:42 PM
 #74

70% of their customers are italian, so the italian scam thread is more important to them than this one.

No, they didn't release my money. This is going to last a long time.

Thanks for your interest.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 22, 2018, 05:26:41 AM
 #75

so was there any new info in the italian thread ?

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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October 24, 2018, 01:31:25 AM
 #76

Since I have absolute evidence that the money is mine and they keep suggesting it isn't or raising arbitrary suspicions against me without a single evidence, they are just showing everyone that they are lying.

They didn't deny one of the facts on my OP. Not one. I have evidence on all. And they dare raise suspicions...

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account to where small euro withdrawals were made from my Rock Account in 2013.

VIII) I still own the account on another exchange from which I made almost all crypto deposits on the Rock and I have scans of their transactions.

IX) About 2 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money.

Only dishonest people would contest my ownership.

If they are lying by contesting my ownership, the reason is obvious: just a pretext to keep my money.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 25, 2018, 04:34:32 AM
 #77

Since I have absolute evidence that the money is mine and they keep suggesting it isn't or raising arbitrary suspicions against me without a single evidence, they are just showing everyone that they are lying.

They didn't deny one of the facts on my OP. Not one. I have evidence on all. And they dare raise suspicions...

My evidence:

I) I have the login and password of my Rock account.

II) I have the login and password of the email associated with the account and I wrote them using this email.

III) The IP I have is and always have been from the same country and location.

IV) There is a second Rock account that the Rock knows is related to me. An email was sent from that email account confirming my identity.

V) I quoted detailed conversations I had with the CTO Paci on Second Life 6 years ago.

VI) I can confirm my identity using the Second Life account associated with my Rock account.

VII) I still own the banking account to where small euro withdrawals were made from my Rock Account in 2013.

VIII) I still own the account on another exchange from which I made almost all crypto deposits on the Rock and I have scans of their transactions.

IX) About 2 months passed since this public war started. If I wasn't the owner, the real me would already claimed the money.

Only dishonest people would contest my ownership.

If they are lying by contesting my ownership, the reason is obvious: just a pretext to keep my money.


if all that is true and they just refuse to give you your money if i were you i would just go to the italian police, they deserve to be in jail for withholding that much money without any solid proof that you are not the account owner

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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October 25, 2018, 05:11:02 AM
 #78

In my country our ID card is a global card with our full id numbers of all public services. It's so danger to give a copy of it that is illegal for any entity to demand it. They can only verify the numbers.

I'll go to the police, but it will be my last option, since I'll have to send them a digital copy of my id card. Who knows how many low officials, secretaries, will handle the copy.

I know a guy who had his life destroyed because of a copy of his id card.

Besides I'm warning the community about them. I Know I won't have patience after this is solved.

But thanks for your interest allyouracid.

You trusted them with your crypto but not with your ID.

If you don't want to give them your national ID you can give them your passport instead.

With KYC in certain jurisdictions you can do anything you like but unless you provide the identification they require for KYC so they can comply with AML laws they won't budge.

The "drama" that you can create is nothing in comparison to the prison terms they can receive for not complying with the law.

It is not as if the exchange is hidden somewhere in Russia or the Ukraine.

The exchange is located in Italy:
The Rock Trading
TRT srl - Galleria del Corso 2 - 20122 Milano,
Italy - VAT: 10120840961
https://www.therocktrading.com/

It has to comply with AML laws https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5

There is a good chance that because you have made this much drama that your file has been passed to the authorities as "suspicious".
Refusing to provide identification to withdraw a substantial amount of funds is suspicious. No matter what excuses you provide.

I don't like KYC either - but it is introduced by legislation and most exchanges have to comply to AML regulations. (The exchanges that don't have to comply to AML legislation are in dodgy jurisdictions)

Dealing with large amounts on centralized exchanges requires KYC nowadays. It is just a fact of life.

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October 26, 2018, 02:07:53 AM
Last edit: October 26, 2018, 02:19:12 AM by Coinfan
 #79

You can rest assure I'm not going to trust my documents to people who breached several main rules of their TOS and that are lying by doubting my ownership. They know the money is mine.

My evidence of ownership is absolute: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47204994#msg47204994

I already showed that what they are doing has no basis whatsoever on their TOS, including the ones you quoted some time ago:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

There is no AML issue, they know the source of my funds (trading there on the last 6 years) and they refused several times to explain why they blocked my withdrawals on the first place, why didn't informed me of the block, leaving my ignorant about it for months (I even entrapped more money on another deposit) and why they demanded my documents.

As I wrote several times, the european directives applied to crypto exchanges doesn't apply to Italy, since Italy didn't adopt it yet. There is no legal duty to KYC in Italy applied to crypto exchanges or they couldn't allow unverified accounts.

they deserve to be in jail for withholding that much money without any solid proof that you are not the account owner

Mirae, thanks for your opinion. I won't forget your support.

I'll go to a Italian criminal court, but first everyone will know what they do to customers. You can rest assure I won't let them keep my money.

But if they only release my money under orders of the authorities, this all publicity will stay online forever. Only people scamming release money only under orders.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 26, 2018, 07:33:38 AM
 #80

In my country our ID card is a global card with our full id numbers of all public services. It's so danger to give a copy of it that is illegal for any entity to demand it. They can only verify the numbers.

I'll go to the police, but it will be my last option, since I'll have to send them a digital copy of my id card. Who knows how many low officials, secretaries, will handle the copy.

I know a guy who had his life destroyed because of a copy of his id card.

Besides I'm warning the community about them. I Know I won't have patience after this is solved.

But thanks for your interest allyouracid.

You trusted them with your crypto but not with your ID.

If you don't want to give them your national ID you can give them your passport instead.

With KYC in certain jurisdictions you can do anything you like but unless you provide the identification they require for KYC so they can comply with AML laws they won't budge.

The "drama" that you can create is nothing in comparison to the prison terms they can receive for not complying with the law.

It is not as if the exchange is hidden somewhere in Russia or the Ukraine.

The exchange is located in Italy:
The Rock Trading
TRT srl - Galleria del Corso 2 - 20122 Milano,
Italy - VAT: 10120840961
https://www.therocktrading.com/

It has to comply with AML laws https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5

There is a good chance that because you have made this much drama that your file has been passed to the authorities as "suspicious".
Refusing to provide identification to withdraw a substantial amount of funds is suspicious. No matter what excuses you provide.

I don't like KYC either - but it is introduced by legislation and most exchanges have to comply to AML regulations. (The exchanges that don't have to comply to AML legislation are in dodgy jurisdictions)

Dealing with large amounts on centralized exchanges requires KYC nowadays. It is just a fact of life.

Exactly to the point. Thank you Smiley

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October 26, 2018, 06:34:58 PM
 #81

Yes I know he delivered the paid service didnt he? All 3 or 4 xtraelv posts on this thread are completely biased one side posts and were clearly paid by you. You are a Scammer Medri/eliale.
Be careful xtraelv I hate scammers accomplices. You might end with some negative feedback.
Medri/eliale is a scammer because
You trick people to create unverified accounts saying in your website "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27
You wait until the user has serious money on his account and then you block his withdrawals.
But you say nothing about the block and let the user keep depositing more money for months even if your own TOS says in this case you must do "useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process" TOS point 8.4 https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3
When he complains you keep his money blocked and blackmail him to send his personal documents against your FAQ and TOS.
You first asked for the OPs documents then you wrote the OP didnt have to send them, but you added his money would be kept locked for "much more time". When the OP said he would expose this here you started asking again for his documents as a pretext. OP conclusion X and XI.
You confirmed the facts described on the OP here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg44951057#msg44951057
When I asked to explain why you blocked the OPs account and demanded verification in the first place you refused to answer repeatedly or gave scamish answers on this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45512110#msg45512110
You tried to trick members of the forum by creating a new alt account to defend your acts https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45560191#msg45560191
You are paying for members to post here defending you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46020217#msg46020217
You invented fake applicable European Laws to try to justify your acts.
You are trying to disguise your scam by lying about the Op property of the account. You know very well his evidence is more than clear.

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October 27, 2018, 12:42:40 AM
Last edit: October 27, 2018, 09:39:16 AM by xtraelv
Merited by bones261 (1)
 #82

Yes I know he delivered the paid service didnt he? All 3 or 4 xtraelv posts on this thread are completely biased one side posts and were clearly paid by you. You are a Scammer Medri/eliale.
Be careful xtraelv I hate scammers accomplices. You might end with some negative feedback.


I have never even used the rock as a customer or even spoken to someone from there - let alone being paid by them. To make such blatantly false accusation against me accompanied with threats for expressing my opinion is not cool. You have effectively publicly called me a liar and scammer - that makes you untrustworthy in my view.

Your aggressive demeanor towards me makes me think you are an alt of the OP or somehow vested in this.

Disclosure: I've never traded on that exchange and don't know anyone involved there.

xtraelv posts on this thread are completely biased one side posts and were clearly paid by you

I now require you to provide proof of this "payment". Failing to provide clear verifiable proof of payment makes you a proven LIAR.

People can have different opinions but as soon as you started accusing me and threatening me you became untrustworthy.

Archived for proof of threat and false accusation.

From an account that curiously woke up after a long sleep...



Fortunately you should be able to prove it is not a bought or hacked account by signing a message with todays date with address 1FphoN4MyqwPuWBQaN4PgHZMSkWcuitsBu
https://archive.fo/dTj4A#selection-5885.16-5885.50


What a co-incidence...  Shocked

AML & KYC is entrenched in Italian law - FACT
It is reasonably recent that it applies to virtual currencies - FACT
That exchange is located in Italy and subject to Italian law - FACT


This is a typical post by someone who does not want to disclose their identity - for unknown reasons. I tried to help at the start - it could have easily been resolved two months ago simply by sending in KYC.

Someone can have a tantrum and cause numerous posts on the internet. It doesn't make them right. If an exchange has to follow the law they do not have leeway to make exceptions. They legally cannot return the funds unless KYC is completed. It would be different if an exchange is located in some dodgy country.

Quote
The Legislative Decree No. 90 of May 25, 2017 has been published in the Ordinary Supplement No. 28 of the Italian Official Gazette No. 140 of 19 June 2017 (the Decree). The Decree amends the legislative decrees No 231 dated 21 November 2007 (Decree 231) and No. 109 dated 22 June 2007, implementing the Directive (EU) 2015/849 (IV AML Directive) on «prevention of the use of the financial system for money laundering or terrorist financing» as well as the Regulation (EU) 2015/847 on information on accompanying transfers of funds.
https://www.dlapiper.com/en/italy/insights/publications/2017/06/anti-money-laundering-directive-in-italy/

Quote
Virtual currency providers
Specific rules have also been set forth with reference to providers operating in "virtual currencies", meaning any "digital representation of value, not issued by a central bank or by a public authority, not necessarily linked to a currency with legal tender, used as a means of exchange for the purchase of goods and services and transferred, stored and negotiated electronically".

In detail, the Decree 231 now qualifies as "other non-financial operators" the virtual currency service providers, defined as "natural or legal persons providing to third parties, on a professional basis, services functional to use, exchange, store virtual currencies as well as to convert them in or from currencies with legal tender". Such providers are required to fulfil specific anti-money laundering obligations with regard to virtual currency conversion activities.

It is worthy of notice the fact that, by amending Legislative Decree no. 141, the Decree requires the virtual currency service providers to be registered in a special section of the register held by the so called "Agents and Credit Brokers Body" (Organismo degli Agenti e dei Metiatori Creditizi) which is responsible for the management of the register of financial agents and credit brokers, in accordance with Article 128-undecies of the Consolidated Banking Act.

This provision shall be implemented by a decree to be issued by the Italian Minister of Economy and Finance, detailing the reporting duties of the virtual currency service providers with regard to the operations carried out in Italy. Such reporting must be considered as an essential condition for the lawful performance of the relevant activity by the aforementioned providers.
https://www.dlapiper.com/en/italy/insights/publications/2017/06/anti-money-laundering-directive-in-italy/

It is also clearly stated in their terms:


https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64&lang=en_US


https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5



They clearly state that they can ask for additional information and refer to their AML policy.

Quote
Note:
per our sole discretion we can require additional information or documents despite the status
Please, if you are sending documents via mail (not suggested), you can utilize only the mail we do have on file.
without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
please read our AML policy

I'm sick of people calling something a "scam" when it is compliance to the law.

Archived

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October 28, 2018, 04:20:03 PM
Last edit: October 28, 2018, 04:55:17 PM by Coinfan
 #83

Your alt allegations are a joke. I wish I had an older account to start this topic.

I don't know if you have any relation with the Rock and I don't really care. The facts on my OP speak from themselves.

Now you quote FAQ, but I still remember you posting

Their FAQ is not their legal terms and conditions.

I debunked many times this note on their FAQ you are quoting as a basis for what the Rock is doing:

"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"

This note say you can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with your request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say you can block unverified accounts or demand verification.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely their FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

You quote a comment on italian legislation without actually reading it. My lawyer read the Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017.

It only applies to the activities of crypto exchanges when they convert crypto to fiat by allowing fiat withdrawals (check article 3).

It's because of this that the Rock says on their FAQ (that you failed to mention):
“Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.


You can say whatever you want: their TOS and FAQ don't allow them to demand verification from unverified costumers without a very good reason. And they repeatedly refused to justify why they blocked my account.

But it seems you agree they can block withdrawals without any need to explain why and avoid notifying their customer of the block, letting him keep entrapping more money with new deposits.
Even if their TOS says that in this case they must do "useful efforts by TRT to contact the User" TOS point 8.4 https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

At least you don't seem to deny my ownership. But you don't think that is suspicious that, faced with so much evidence that the account is mine, they keep raising suspicions about my property.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
xtraelv
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October 29, 2018, 03:35:13 AM
Last edit: October 29, 2018, 03:48:54 AM by xtraelv
 #84


You quote a comment on italian legislation without actually reading it. My lawyer read the Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017.


The information that I quoted above is from DLA Piper (a global law firm)

Quote
Virtual currency providers
Specific rules have also been set forth with reference to providers operating in "virtual currencies", meaning any "digital representation of value, not issued by a central bank or by a public authority, not necessarily linked to a currency with legal tender, used as a means of exchange for the purchase of goods and services and transferred, stored and negotiated electronically".

In detail, the Decree 231 now qualifies as "other non-financial operators" the virtual currency service providers, defined as "natural or legal persons providing to third parties, on a professional basis, services functional to use, exchange, store virtual currencies as well as to convert them in or from currencies with legal tender". Such providers are required to fulfil specific anti-money laundering obligations with regard to virtual currency conversion activities.

It is worthy of notice the fact that, by amending Legislative Decree no. 141, the Decree requires the virtual currency service providers to be registered in a special section of the register held by the so called "Agents and Credit Brokers Body" (Organismo degli Agenti e dei Metiatori Creditizi) which is responsible for the management of the register of financial agents and credit brokers, in accordance with Article 128-undecies of the Consolidated Banking Act.

This provision shall be implemented by a decree to be issued by the Italian Minister of Economy and Finance, detailing the reporting duties of the virtual currency service providers with regard to the operations carried out in Italy. Such reporting must be considered as an essential condition for the lawful performance of the relevant activity by the aforementioned providers.
https://www.dlapiper.com/en/italy/insights/publications/2017/06/anti-money-laundering-directive-in-italy/



https://www.dlapiper.com/en/italy/people/

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October 29, 2018, 09:36:29 AM
 #85

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you



Hello eliale,

I just started following this thread yesterday.

It has be sad the OP finds himself in a very unfortunate predicament and all this negative PR really has not helped your exchange either.

Regardless of who is or is not to blame I think all parties would agree that 11 months of a customer not having access to his crypto is unacceptable.

Sure, even if you blame the customer OP for this issue may I kindly request a way out where both parties can at least achieve their objectives in a kind respectful manner?

If you feel you did not nothing then do not apologise to him and if the OP thinks he did nothing wrong then he will not apologise to you either but that should not stop a resolution which results in the OP getting back the funds/crypto that he owns but are in your control. In the end the funds belong to him and he has had them in limbo for 11 months, that is something unacceptable.

The 21 August 2018 email exchange between the OP and your CTO (as mentioned and quoted in the OP) is the basis of his defence and his argument. Please, is it possible that rather than the OP send any ID verification for FIAT deposit/withdrawals, you allow him to access his crypto just so he can send it to his desktop wallet.

Maybe both parties can say there was a misunderstanding and you will kindly allow the OP to release the crypto by sending it to his desktop. After that both you and the OP will no longer have to deal with each other.

Many thanks for your consideration.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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October 30, 2018, 07:43:55 AM
 #86

Holdings on the account belongs to the owner of the account and not to us.

Provide your information to us or, if you don't trust us to the police and I'll be more than happy to release the funds and close this issue.

Thank you



Hello eliale,

I just started following this thread yesterday.

It has be sad the OP finds himself in a very unfortunate predicament and all this negative PR really has not helped your exchange either.

Regardless of who is or is not to blame I think all parties would agree that 11 months of a customer not having access to his crypto is unacceptable.

Sure, even if you blame the customer OP for this issue may I kindly request a way out where both parties can at least achieve their objectives in a kind respectful manner?

If you feel you did not nothing then do not apologise to him and if the OP thinks he did nothing wrong then he will not apologise to you either but that should not stop a resolution which results in the OP getting back the funds/crypto that he owns but are in your control. In the end the funds belong to him and he has had them in limbo for 11 months, that is something unacceptable.

The 21 August 2018 email exchange between the OP and your CTO (as mentioned and quoted in the OP) is the basis of his defence and his argument. Please, is it possible that rather than the OP send any ID verification for FIAT deposit/withdrawals, you allow him to access his crypto just so he can send it to his desktop wallet.

Maybe both parties can say there was a misunderstanding and you will kindly allow the OP to release the crypto by sending it to his desktop. After that both you and the OP will no longer have to deal with each other.

Many thanks for your consideration.

Hello and thank you for your remarks.

Yes!! 11 months is really a lot for a issue that it could be solved in one business day.... and, we do not understand why the customer doesn't want to comply to  rules and AML policies.

We do have 2 major problems here:


1) we cannot breach the law and avoid KYC/AML

2) we do have to be sure the claimer is the real owner of the account (at this point this is a major issue....)

Even if we do have very stict laws in handling documents, If the customer does not trust us in providing his/her documents, we asked him/her multiple times to open a claim with the authorities so, we will be able to solve the issue.

However, it seems like, reading previous posts that he/she does not trust the police as well.....

Please note: TRT is the oldest exchange in existence. We started business on June 1st 2011 and, since then, we processed thousands of SEPA transfers without any major problem and handled tens of thousands customers documents without one single leak.

So, why he/she doesn't want to provide information required by the laws to us or to the authorities?Huh

I let you answer the question.....

Thank you!  Wink




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October 30, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
 #87

Hello and thank you for your remarks.

Yes!! 11 months is really a lot for a issue that it could be solved in one business day.... and, we do not understand why the customer doesn't want to comply to  rules and AML policies.

We do have 2 major problems here:


1) we cannot breach the law and avoid KYC/AML

2) we do have to be sure the claimer is the real owner of the account (at this point this is a major issue....)

Even if we do have very stict laws in handling documents, If the customer does not trust us in providing his/her documents, we asked him/her multiple times to open a claim with the authorities so, we will be able to solve the issue.

However, it seems like, reading previous posts that he/she does not trust the police as well.....

Please note: TRT is the oldest exchange in existence. We started business on June 1st 2011 and, since then, we processed thousands of SEPA transfers without any major problem and handled tens of thousands customers documents without one single leak.

So, why he/she doesn't want to provide information required by the laws to us or to the authorities?Huh

I let you answer the question.....

Thank you!  Wink


Many thanks for your post.

Now it is clear the user does not want FIAT sent to his bank. If he has 35,000 EUR worth of crypto can you allow access to it or allow him to send you his wallet address so you can send it to him?

Personally, I have never used any exchange which asks for KYC as I never trust anybody with my ID. Many people have their own reasons for not wanting to send ID to companies over the net, it is very common. It is equally common for users that are happy to trust to send their ID to exchanges. For those that do or not want to send, both have my respect.

If they ask for KYC then users who do not want to send ID should not sign up, simple. In this case your CTO advised the customer that ID would not be required.

Please could this issue be resolved and all parties involved can say it was a misunderstanding?

Is it possible maybe you could sent the crypto to the user (or allow him to withdraw it) and after that both parties will not trade with each other again.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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October 30, 2018, 10:35:08 AM
 #88

Hello and thank you for your remarks.

Yes!! 11 months is really a lot for a issue that it could be solved in one business day.... and, we do not understand why the customer doesn't want to comply to  rules and AML policies.

We do have 2 major problems here:


1) we cannot breach the law and avoid KYC/AML

2) we do have to be sure the claimer is the real owner of the account (at this point this is a major issue....)

Even if we do have very stict laws in handling documents, If the customer does not trust us in providing his/her documents, we asked him/her multiple times to open a claim with the authorities so, we will be able to solve the issue.

However, it seems like, reading previous posts that he/she does not trust the police as well.....

Please note: TRT is the oldest exchange in existence. We started business on June 1st 2011 and, since then, we processed thousands of SEPA transfers without any major problem and handled tens of thousands customers documents without one single leak.

So, why he/she doesn't want to provide information required by the laws to us or to the authorities?Huh

I let you answer the question.....

Thank you!  Wink


Many thanks for your post.

Now it is clear the user does not want FIAT sent to his bank. If he has 35,000 EUR worth of crypto can you allow access to it or allow him to send you his wallet address so you can send it to him?

Personally, I have never used any exchange which asks for KYC as I never trust anybody with my ID. Many people have their own reasons for not wanting to send ID to companies over the net, it is very common. It is equally common for users that are happy to trust to send their ID to exchanges. For those that do or not want to send, both have my respect.

If they ask for KYC then users who do not want to send ID should not sign up, simple. In this case your CTO advised the customer that ID would not be required.

Please could this issue be resolved and all parties involved can say it was a misunderstanding?

Is it possible maybe you could sent the crypto to the user (or allow him to withdraw it) and after that both parties will not trade with each other again.

Hello,

no, we cannot. Present EU AML directives are quite clear.

But, if we could, in the specific case, we are not positive he/she is the real account owner. So, for his/her protection, and for all of us including our customers, we cannot release funds based on a chat claim....

For example: let's suppose your account has been hacked, would you be happy if we were releasing your funds based on a chat claim?? 

But again, if he does not trust us, he/she can open a cliam with the authorities, they'll contact us, provide us with the information and we'll release funds.  It is a longer procedure but the choice is not up to us.



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October 30, 2018, 12:15:20 PM
 #89

Hello and thank you for your remarks.

Yes!! 11 months is really a lot for a issue that it could be solved in one business day.... and, we do not understand why the customer doesn't want to comply to  rules and AML policies.

We do have 2 major problems here:


1) we cannot breach the law and avoid KYC/AML

2) we do have to be sure the claimer is the real owner of the account (at this point this is a major issue....)

Even if we do have very stict laws in handling documents, If the customer does not trust us in providing his/her documents, we asked him/her multiple times to open a claim with the authorities so, we will be able to solve the issue.

However, it seems like, reading previous posts that he/she does not trust the police as well.....

Please note: TRT is the oldest exchange in existence. We started business on June 1st 2011 and, since then, we processed thousands of SEPA transfers without any major problem and handled tens of thousands customers documents without one single leak.

So, why he/she doesn't want to provide information required by the laws to us or to the authorities?Huh

I let you answer the question.....

Thank you!  Wink


Many thanks for your post.

Now it is clear the user does not want FIAT sent to his bank. If he has 35,000 EUR worth of crypto can you allow access to it or allow him to send you his wallet address so you can send it to him?

Personally, I have never used any exchange which asks for KYC as I never trust anybody with my ID. Many people have their own reasons for not wanting to send ID to companies over the net, it is very common. It is equally common for users that are happy to trust to send their ID to exchanges. For those that do or not want to send, both have my respect.

If they ask for KYC then users who do not want to send ID should not sign up, simple. In this case your CTO advised the customer that ID would not be required.

Please could this issue be resolved and all parties involved can say it was a misunderstanding?

Is it possible maybe you could sent the crypto to the user (or allow him to withdraw it) and after that both parties will not trade with each other again.

Hello,

no, we cannot. Present EU AML directives are quite clear.

But, if we could, in the specific case, we are not positive he/she is the real account owner. So, for his/her protection, and for all of us including our customers, we cannot release funds based on a chat claim....

For example: let's suppose your account has been hacked, would you be happy if we were releasing your funds based on a chat claim?? 

But again, if he does not trust us, he/she can open a cliam with the authorities, they'll contact us, provide us with the information and we'll release funds.  It is a longer procedure but the choice is not up to us.



how would a hacker remain in the control of that account for 11 months ? How would a hacker have access to the bank account where the early small withdrawals were sent ?

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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October 30, 2018, 12:28:49 PM
 #90

Hello,

no, we cannot. Present EU AML directives are quite clear.

But, if we could, in the specific case, we are not positive he/she is the real account owner. So, for his/her protection, and for all of us including our customers, we cannot release funds based on a chat claim....

For example: let's suppose your account has been hacked, would you be happy if we were releasing your funds based on a chat claim??  

But again, if he does not trust us, he/she can open a cliam with the authorities, they'll contact us, provide us with the information and we'll release funds.  It is a longer procedure but the choice is not up to us.

I appreciate the response and you looking in to the matter. As you mentioned in your first post to me your exchange has been going a long time so I respect you when you say you cannot release funds based on chat claims.

I read the title of thread but I cannot right now see this being selective scamming because I have seen what selective scamming looks like in the threads here and more:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5007142.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4619534.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5034589.0

Yours seems to be a genuine business going back all those years so sure I think there is a misunderstanding between the user and your team

The user in question stated he has the same email address which you can cross reference from the IP address from the email and he has the same email address.

Your AML/KYC rules changed after the User was an existing customer. When he became aware of it he was told by your CTO that he did not have to send ID otherwise he would have moved his crypto out earlier.

Surely there has to be a way out of this where you do not have to send FIAT and he does not have to send his ID. Please would you look at the conversation between the User and your CTO where there was incorrect information given to the OP?

Please would you kindly consider allowing the OP to write to your email address with his crypto wallet address so you can cross reference his IP address along with any questions you want to ask to verify his account (such as his previous trades and dates) then you can release his crypto to him?

Thank you


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October 30, 2018, 01:51:50 PM
 #91


Your AML/KYC rules changed after the User was an existing customer. When he became aware of it he was told by your CTO that he did not have to send ID otherwise he would have moved his crypto out earlier.



The user accepted the new TOS.

Still, since 2011, if we are not positive about the identity, we do have to check for security issues. Believe me, we have seen any kind of examples in the past 8 years....

I want to believe he/she is the owner. In this case, I'm positive he/she will provide to us, or to the authorities, what we need in order to promptly release funds. As simple as that

Thank you!

PS: The CTO is not  the Compliance officer.

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October 30, 2018, 02:40:22 PM
 #92


The user accepted the new TOS.

Still, since 2011, if we are not positive about the identity, we do have to check for security issues. Believe me, we have seen any kind of examples in the past 8 years....

I want to believe he/she is the owner. In this case, I'm positive he/she will provide to us, or to the authorities, what we need in order to promptly release funds. As simple as that

Thank you!

PS: The CTO is not  the Compliance officer.



So in order to clear this up and for the user to get access to his funds again, you want him to login to his account and upload his ID?

Specifically which ID do want from him? Please list it here.

Since there are issues between yourself and the User will you guarantee that you will not start making more problems but asking him for more and more things because under your ToS you can use (if you want to) loopholes to make things very difficult for the OP.

If he agrees, after you get the ID how long will it take for him to get either the FIAT to his bank or access to transfer the crypto out of your wallets?

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
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October 30, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
 #93

Medri/Eliale you are a scammer and a liar. The OP already posted europeans directives only apply to State members for them to create regulations. And the OP just posted the italian regulation created to execute these directives
My lawyer read the Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017.[/b]

It only applies to the activities of crypto exchanges when they convert crypto to fiat by allowing fiat withdrawals (check article 3).
You cant ask for OP documents under your TOS/FAQ or italian law.

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October 30, 2018, 03:19:12 PM
 #94


The user accepted the new TOS.

Still, since 2011, if we are not positive about the identity, we do have to check for security issues. Believe me, we have seen any kind of examples in the past 8 years....

I want to believe he/she is the owner. In this case, I'm positive he/she will provide to us, or to the authorities, what we need in order to promptly release funds. As simple as that

Thank you!

PS: The CTO is not  the Compliance officer.



So in order to clear this up and for the user to get access to his funds again, you want him to login to his account and upload his ID?

Specifically which ID do want from him? Please list it here.

Since there are issues between yourself and the User will you guarantee that you will not start making more problems but asking him for more and more things because under your ToS you can use (if you want to) loopholes to make things very difficult for the OP.

If he agrees, after you get the ID how long will it take for him to get either the FIAT to his bank or access to transfer the crypto out of your wallets?


Sure,

our FAQ: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?cid=1&lang=en_US

and our AML policy: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5

If all docs are going to be fine, in one or two business days funds will be released (sooner if possible)

Thank you!

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October 30, 2018, 04:15:52 PM
 #95

Sure,

our FAQ: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?cid=1&lang=en_US

and our AML policy: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5

If all docs are going to be fine, in one or two business days funds will be released (sooner if possible)

Thank you!

Considering the OP will not send you any ID, is there please any other way to solve this issue?

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
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|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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October 30, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
 #96

Sure,

our FAQ: https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?cid=1&lang=en_US

and our AML policy: https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5

If all docs are going to be fine, in one or two business days funds will be released (sooner if possible)

Thank you!

Considering the OP will not send you any ID, is there please any other way to solve this issue?


Yes, if he/she doesn't trust us, we strongly suggest him/her to report it to the authorities in order to solve once forever this issue.

More than this we cannot do anything......


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October 31, 2018, 03:06:05 AM
Last edit: October 31, 2018, 03:30:04 AM by Coinfan
 #97

1) we cannot breach the law and avoid KYC/AML


no, we cannot. Present EU AML directives are quite clear.

He knows very well that european directives don't have direct effect on private relations. Only bind states to adopt internal legislation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union).

I told him that more than a month ago:
You quoted European directives?! You have to know that directives are only binding on State members in order to compel them to approve national legislation. They are completely irrelevant on the relations between private persons, as you well know.

He is invoking european directives (only the 5th AML european directive of 2018 applies to crypto exchanges, but Italy hasn't yet execute it with internal legislation) well aware that they are irrelevant to this case.

But as I said, Italy adopted their Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear 4 years ago to him on an email exchange that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal. And he confirmed their TOS: that in this case verification was voluntary.

What they are doing is completely contrary to their own TOS/FAQ and to italian law.

Again I want to thank r34tr783tr78, Mirae and now JollyGood for their attention to this case.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 31, 2018, 10:55:51 AM
Last edit: October 31, 2018, 11:49:44 AM by xtraelv
Merited by bones261 (1)
 #98

1) we cannot breach the law and avoid KYC/AML


no, we cannot. Present EU AML directives are quite clear.

He knows very well that european directives don't have direct effect on private relations. Only bind states to adopt internal legislation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union).

I told him that more than a month ago:
You quoted European directives?! You have to know that directives are only binding on State members in order to compel them to approve national legislation. They are completely irrelevant on the relations between private persons, as you well know.

He is invoking european directives (only the 5th AML european directive of 2018 applies to crypto exchanges, but Italy hasn't yet execute it with internal legislation) well aware that they are irrelevant to this case.

But as I said, Italy adopted their Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 on AML and KYC duties, but his article 3, n.º 5, says that crypto exchanges are restrictively ("limitatamente") subject to this duties only on their operations of conversion from crypto to fiat. That is, to customers who ask for fiat withdrawals. I left clear 4 years ago to him on an email exchange that I wouldn't ask for any fiat withdrawal. And he confirmed their TOS: that in this case verification was voluntary.

What they are doing is completely contrary to their own TOS/FAQ and to italian law.

Again I want to thank r34tr783tr78, Mirae and now JollyGood for their attention to this case.

https://gettingthedealthrough.com/area/50/jurisdiction/15/anti-money-laundering-italy/

Studio Legale Pisano is an Italian boutique firm which specialises in all areas of white-collar crime, including corporate criminal responsibility, corruption, market abuse and false accounting, tax crimes, money laundering, fraud and recovery of assets, bankruptcy crimes, environmental and health-and-safety crimes.

Qualifying assets and transactions
Is there any limitation on the types of assets or transactions that can form the basis of a money laundering offence?

There is no limitation on the types of assets that can form the basis of a money laundering offence, and there is no monetary threshold to prosecution. However, where the goods laundered have a limited value, or they derive from a less serious predicate offence (punished with imprisonment for less than five years), mitigating circumstances could apply, which can decrease the amount of the effective punishment.

Reform of anti-money laundering regulation (vanberings - law firm)

https://vanberings.com/EN/Site/News/2017/Reform-of-anti_money-laundering-regulation

DECRETO LEGISLATIVO 25 maggio 2017, n. 90
http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/eli/id/2017/06/19/17G00104/sg

It specifically refers to:
Quote
qq) virtual currency: the digital representation of value, not issued by a central bank or a public authority, not necessarily linked to a currency that is legal tender, used as a medium of exchange for the purchase of goods and services e-transferred, stored and negotiated electronically.

<snip>
I have on the Rock Trading exchange 35519 euros
<snip>

An entity is required to carry out an adequate client and/or beneficial owner due diligence in case of ongoing business relationship or occasional transaction involving the transfer or the handling of payment of an amount equal to or higher than 15,000 Euro

Quote
n) identification data: name and surname, place and date of birth, residence and domicile, where different from residence of the registry, the details of the identification document and, where assigned, the tax code or, in the case of subjects other than natural person, the name, the registered office and, where assigned, the fiscal Code;

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October 31, 2018, 11:28:26 AM
 #99

PS: The CTO is not  the Compliance officer.

So why did he give wrong advice to the OP?

Why did you continue to accept deposits from him even though you changed your ToS and then when he questioned it your CTO overstepped the mark and not only said ID was not required but also made it clear that some people from the company will try hard to make life difficult but nevertheless ID was not required?


Yes, if he/she doesn't trust us, we strongly suggest him/her to report it to the authorities in order to solve once forever this issue.

More than this we cannot do anything......

He first traded with you 6 years ago. If you treat your oldest customers in this way how can anybody take your exchange or business seriously? You could easily return his crypto to him and as long as there is no FIAT involved then there is no need for him to send ID.

I am sure the OP is doing the right thing by not sending his ID. The reason is because it seems quite clear you will not release his funds and the primary reason is simply because you want to make things more difficult after he came here asking for help. It brought bad PR for your exchange.


There is no limitation on the types of assets that can form the basis of a money laundering offence, and there is no monetary threshold to prosecution. However, where the goods laundered have a limited value, or they derive from a less serious predicate offence (punished with imprisonment for less than five years), mitigating circumstances could apply, which can decrease the amount of the effective punishment.

If somebody does not trade and just deposits, then wants his fund back in the same format he sent them, then there is no need for ID verification.

Do you expect someone to send you his ID after you accept his deposits when you already told him he does not need to send ID.

This is sounding more and more like selective scamming. I am 100% in agreement for the OP to never send you ID.

Please return his crypto in the same format (XRP, BTC etc) that he sent it to you therefore ID verification can be bypassed.

You would destroy your reputation and an old exchange by selective scamming a 6 year old loyal customer just for 35,000 EURO?

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
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October 31, 2018, 12:07:43 PM
Last edit: October 31, 2018, 10:03:06 PM by xtraelv
 #100


If somebody does not trade and just deposits, then wants his fund back in the same format he sent them, then there is no need for ID verification.


That is not correct. Once a customer sends funds there is a "business relationship".

I'm not familiar with Italian law specifically but I am very familiar with various other countries laws regarding AML legislation.

It is different if you are dealing with a dodgy exchange that hides behind anonymity or dodgy country that give any  legal status to Crypto.
Those exchanges are not even legal entities and therefore cannot possibly comply with AML laws.
Legal exchanges cannot return funds if the source requires to be identified. They are not likely to tell anyone publicly the exact concerns and while I have no idea of the exact reason the customer requires to provide KYC for AML purposes - my guess is that it is because their balance is over 15K euros. There could potentially also be an issue with the source or the destination of the funds.

A large number of exchanges are going through changes that require them to comply with AML laws.  

Quote
The main anti-money laundering duties (enshrined in Italian law)  relate to:

Customer due diligence
Data retention duties
and
Reporting duties.

At this regard, the obliged entity shall:

carry out an adequate client and/or beneficial owner due diligence in case of ongoing business relationship or occasional transaction involving the transfer or the handling of payment of an amount equal to or higher than 15,000 Euro or in any case, i) in case of doubts concerning the truthfulness of the data obtained or suspects of money-laundering or terrorism financing regardless of any exemption applicable; ii) clients located in high risk countries identified by the European Commission; iii) cross-border correspondence with a corresponding credit institution or financial institution in a third country; iv) ongoing professional relationships or transaction performance with clients and in case of politically exposed persons.

shall retain a copy of the documents collected during the customer's due diligence, indicating: i) the relevant date of the establishment of the business relationship; ii) personal data of the customer and/or the beneficial owner iii) the scope and nature of the legal relationship or of the transaction in place; iv) means of payment used by the customer.

shall submit without delay a suspicious transaction report to the UIF (Financial Intelligence Unit for Italy) when they become aware of, suspect or have reasonable grounds to suspect that terrorism financing or money laundering are in process or terrorism operations are being carried out or attempted, or whatever funds, regardless of their size, come from criminal activity.
https://vanberings.com/EN/Site/News/2017/Reform-of-anti_money-laundering-regulation

https://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/0bff31ef-0b49-11e5-8817-01aa75ed71a1/language-en

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October 31, 2018, 12:55:03 PM
 #101


If somebody does not trade and just deposits, then wants his fund back in the same format he sent them, then there is no need for ID verification.


That is not correct. Once a customer sends funds there is a "business relationship".

If they let him have his funds back and then a month or year later IF there is a request by Italian authorities or an audit then they can justify their returning of the crypto by saying the CTO gave wrong information and the funds were sent by the customer in error.

I am sure the OP would be happy to withdraw his crypto over a period of 4 days to the value of 8,750 EURO a day over a 4 day period.

The stance taken by the exchange is dubious enough but the fact that they seem to revel in the suffering of the OP makes this a very sad matter indeed.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
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October 31, 2018, 03:16:18 PM
 #102


If somebody does not trade and just deposits, then wants his fund back in the same format he sent them, then there is no need for ID verification.


That is not correct. Once a customer sends funds there is a "business relationship".

If they let him have his funds back and then a month or year later IF there is a request by Italian authorities or an audit then they can justify their returning of the crypto by saying the CTO gave wrong information and the funds were sent by the customer in error.

I am sure the OP would be happy to withdraw his crypto over a period of 4 days to the value of 8,750 EURO a day over a 4 day period.

The stance taken by the exchange is dubious enough but the fact that they seem to revel in the suffering of the OP makes this a very sad matter indeed.

There is nothing we can do. For sure the law and security prevails on all our arguments.

Either the customer provides to us, or to the authorities, his/her Id or we will have to wait forever.  Also, let's assume we will release the coins, without following the rules.... the same person could come back to us claiming a hack and sue us for negligence......  I wouldn't be surprise.....

Believe me, I'm the first one that would like to see this saga ending and close the account.....

Isn't strange he/she threatening us to go to the authorities, talking about jail sentences etc. and non acting accordingly?Huh?

Quite strange I would say.... or,normal if he/she is not the account owner....

I still hope this is not the case but, so far, everything is pointing in that direction.....Will see....













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October 31, 2018, 04:43:56 PM
 #103

There is nothing we can do. For sure the law and security prevails on all our arguments.

Either the customer provides to us, or to the authorities, his/her Id or we will have to wait forever.  Also, let's assume we will release the coins, without following the rules.... the same person could come back to us claiming a hack and sue us for negligence......  I wouldn't be surprise.....

Believe me, I'm the first one that would like to see this saga ending and close the account.....

Isn't strange he/she threatening us to go to the authorities, talking about jail sentences etc. and non acting accordingly?Huh?

Quite strange I would say.... or,normal if he/she is not the account owner....

I still hope this is not the case but, so far, everything is pointing in that direction.....Will see....


The same person would not come back and say "hack". Your post is very condescending, it seems very clear you are deliberately putting obstacles in the way just to antagonise the OP.

That is same attitude the OP can show you and say that after receiving his ID you will still not release his funds.

I expected better from you. If you are a professional business you should have ended this issue 11 months ago. the OP has suffered enough. You could easily allow him to login to his account and withdraw his crypto over a period of 3 or 4 days.

Your arguments about KYC and law are out of context in this particular case and appear to be used by you as an excuse to get revenge against the OP and nothing else.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
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HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
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October 31, 2018, 04:51:28 PM
Last edit: November 23, 2018, 04:22:33 PM by Coinfan
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 #104

An entity is required to carry out an adequate client and/or beneficial owner due diligence in case of ongoing business relationship or occasional transaction involving the transfer or the handling of payment of an amount equal to or higher than 15,000 Euro

Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, article 3, n.º 5, i), under the name of "subjected entities", restricts ANY application of its provisions to a crypto exchange only to operations of conversion (not trading or exchange, but definitive conversion) of crypto to fiat that only happens when the customer makes a withdrawal.

Under this Decree only FIAT withdrawals from crypto exchanges of more than 15000 euros are subject to the quoted due diligence.

It's because of this that their TOS and FAQ makes no reference at all to any 15000 euros limit and allows unverified accounts provided that they don't request fiat withdrawals.


If any transaction of more than 15000 euros were subjected to due diligence and KYC their TOS and FAQ would be illegal.

But they aren't illegal as is confirmed by the fact that their TOS and FAQ were approved by the italian authorities when they moved back from Malta to Italy this year.


There is nothing we can do. For sure the law and security prevails on all our arguments.

Either the customer provides to us, or to the authorities, his/her Id or we will have to wait forever.  Also, let's assume we will release the coins, without following the rules.... the same person could come back to us claiming a hack and sue us for negligence......  I wouldn't be surprise.....

Believe me, I'm the first one that would like to see this saga ending and close the account.....

Isn't strange he/she threatening us to go to the authorities, talking about jail sentences etc. and non acting accordingly?Huh?

Quite strange I would say.... or,normal if he/she is not the account owner....

I still hope this is not the case but, so far, everything is pointing in that direction.....Will see....

Yes!! 11 months is really a lot for a issue that it could be solved in one business day....

no, we cannot. Present EU AML directives are quite clear.

His invocation of "european directives" and "Law" are just lies.

He just publicly stated (and I made scans):
1) That he covertly blocked my withdrawals in december 2017. I had no evidence of a precise month. Thank you!

2) That there are "european directives" applicable to this case, when I informed him more than a month ago that directives don't apply to private relations only to states. Clear lie.

3) That he is going to keep my money "forever" ("or we will have to wait forever"). Confession that he is willing to appropriate my money no matter how many evidence there is that is mine. Thank you!

4) That he doesn't care for the absolute evidence that the money is mine and keep raising suspicions about my ownership that no honest person can raise, which is confirmation that these are just pretexts to keep my money "forever" (quoting him).


If he wants to gamble his exchange, his money and his freedom on a criminal court, I'll be forced to comply and make a criminal complaint.

But I'm still gathering evidence and making the community aware of their practices.



SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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October 31, 2018, 06:11:14 PM
 #105


If somebody does not trade and just deposits, then wants his fund back in the same format he sent them, then there is no need for ID verification.


That is not correct. Once a customer sends funds there is a "business relationship".

If they let him have his funds back and then a month or year later IF there is a request by Italian authorities or an audit then they can justify their returning of the crypto by saying the CTO gave wrong information and the funds were sent by the customer in error.

I am sure the OP would be happy to withdraw his crypto over a period of 4 days to the value of 8,750 EURO a day over a 4 day period.

The stance taken by the exchange is dubious enough but the fact that they seem to revel in the suffering of the OP makes this a very sad matter indeed.

There is nothing we can do. For sure the law and security prevails on all our arguments.

Either the customer provides to us, or to the authorities, his/her Id or we will have to wait forever.  Also, let's assume we will release the coins, without following the rules.... the same person could come back to us claiming a hack and sue us for negligence......  I wouldn't be surprise.....

Believe me, I'm the first one that would like to see this saga ending and close the account.....

Isn't strange he/she threatening us to go to the authorities, talking about jail sentences etc. and non acting accordingly?Huh?

Quite strange I would say.... or,normal if he/she is not the account owner....

I still hope this is not the case but, so far, everything is pointing in that direction.....Will see....













so you are still playing the "its a hacker" card ?
That has been proven as an absolute bs few pages ago.
Do you really think that the real owner wouldnt take some action after 11 months ? That the "hacker" would have access to all the personal information Coinfan (owner) has ?
You are just trying to push the money from him

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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October 31, 2018, 10:24:37 PM
Last edit: November 01, 2018, 01:09:43 AM by xtraelv
 #106

2) That there are "european directives" applicable to this case, when I informed him more than a month ago that directives don't apply to private relations only to states. Clear lie.

Member states are required to enforce the directives. The Italian AML law is based on those directives.

It appears that you want to be obtuse about the intent of those directives. I have posted 3 legal opinions from Italian law firms that disagree with your "lawyer".

It would be interesting to know who the lawyer is because the AML directives also specifically apply to lawyers.



3) That he is going to keep my money "forever" ("or we will have to wait forever"). Confession that he is willing to appropriation my money no matter how many evidence there is that is mine. Thank you!

Nope - that is not what he said. He said that if you don't comply with their interpretation of the law then they cannot release the funds. He even said he is keen to resolve it and close the account.

4) That he doesn't care for the absolute evidence that the money is mine and keep raising suspicions about my ownership that no honest person can raise, which is confirmation that these are just pretexts to keep my money "forever" (his words).

If he wants to gamble his exchange, his money and his freedom on a criminal court, I'll be forced to comply and make a criminal complaint.


Do it.

Laying a complaint with the authorities and providing them with your identity is one way of resolving it.




There is nothing we can do. For sure the law and security prevails on all our arguments.

Either the customer provides to us, or to the authorities, his/her Id or we will have to wait forever.  Also, let's assume we will release the coins, without following the rules.... the same person could come back to us claiming a hack and sue us for negligence......  I wouldn't be surprise.....

Believe me, I'm the first one that would like to see this saga ending and close the account.....

Isn't strange he/she threatening us to go to the authorities, talking about jail sentences etc. and non acting accordingly?Huh?

Quite strange I would say.... or,normal if he/she is not the account owner....

I still hope this is not the case but, so far, everything is pointing in that direction.....Will see....


Threatening legal action is usually bullshit. This is what happened with the last person that threatened legal action in a thread that I took an interest in. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4679939

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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November 01, 2018, 01:38:01 AM
Last edit: November 01, 2018, 01:54:26 AM by Coinfan
 #107

Italian law isn't based on these directives.

The 4 AML directive says nothing about crypto. Doesn't apply to crypto exchanges.

The 5 AML directive from 2018 explicitly addresses crypto, but Italy has until 10 january 2020 to convert it into national law. It hasn't done it yet, so it isn't applicable on Italy.

This isn't a matter of opinion. Is the Law.

Only Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 is applicable to this issue and its article 3, under the name of obligated entities, says:
5. Rientrano nella categoria di altri operatori non finanziari:
i) i prestatori di servizi relativi all'utilizzo di valuta
virtuale, limitatamente allo svolgimento dell'attivita' di
conversione di valute virtuali da ovvero in valute aventi corso
forzoso."

The legislative decree only applies to withdrawals of fiat not of crypto.


BS? Yes, I'm spending money in lawyers for nothing... yes, shore, I'm really going to let them keep my 35500 euros "forever".

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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November 01, 2018, 06:23:58 AM
 #108

Anyway,  if you believe we are not following the law and you do not agree on our security policies, there is nothing more we can do.

We do have thousands of customers and doing business since 2011. As you can imagine we must follow indications from our lawyers and we do have to stick with it.

So, please, again, if you feel we are making a mistake, we do not reside in an off-shore country and you can freely proceed to open a cliam with the authorities.

They'll provide to us your information according to the law and,if all is fine, we will promptly release your funds under their strict supervision.

As an alternative, comply with our TOS and the problem will be solved asap.

Thank you

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November 01, 2018, 07:09:34 AM
 #109


[/quote]
so you are still playing the "its a hacker" card ?
That has been proven as an absolute bs few pages ago.
Do you really think that the real owner wouldnt take some action after 11 months ? That the "hacker" would have access to all the personal information Coinfan (owner) has ?
You are just trying to push the money from him
[/quote]

Thank you.  The hacker card is only a safety procedure to protect customer funds.  Of course, if the account has been hacked, the hacker would have all the information posted on this forum.

Still some other facts:

1) Customer accepted all our new TOS and policies.
2) Customer has FIAT funds on the account.
3) We must follow EU laws and our legal team agreed with our procedures
4) We are in EU and not off shore. If the customer does not any longer agree with our terms, it is possible to report it to the authorities

In conclusion, we are not asking for his DNA 

we do need:

1) A valid ID
2) A selfie with the ID
3) A recent POA

We do this with thousands of customers and, since 2014 (when we started to collect documents) we never had one single security issue or leak of information.

Is the above strange for a regulated entity? It is standard......








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November 01, 2018, 09:31:34 PM
 #110

Anyway,  if you believe we are not following the law and you do not agree on our security policies, there is nothing more we can do.

We do have thousands of customers and doing business since 2011. As you can imagine we must follow indications from our lawyers and we do have to stick with it.

So, please, again, if you feel we are making a mistake, we do not reside in an off-shore country and you can freely proceed to open a cliam with the authorities.

They'll provide to us your information according to the law and,if all is fine, we will promptly release your funds under their strict supervision.

As an alternative, comply with our TOS and the problem will be solved asap.

Thank you


I am sorry to read you are not going to assist the customer unless he sends his ID to you.

He is one of your oldest customers, dating back to 6 years. If you wanted to apply KYC then your CTO should not have misled the OP and when he deposited his XRP you should flagged him up a warning informing him that should he continue he will have to send KYC.

Please will you look at this post from another situation where there was a huge problem regarding KYC. The exchange withheld funds for 4 months and in the end released it back to the customer and then made changes to their system which advised customers that KYC was required if they went ahead with the transaction.

I kindly request you read the post and allow the OP to get his crypto back: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4619534.msg46792439#msg46792439

After that please make an alteration to your website which forces long time dormant customers to upload KYC before they can either withdraw or deposit. Please put this episode down to experience and misunderstanding and kindly allow the OP to login and withdraw his crypto.

Thank you

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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November 02, 2018, 12:42:51 AM
 #111


Please will you look at this post from another situation where there was a huge problem regarding KYC. The exchange withheld funds for 4 months and in the end released it back to the customer and then made changes to their system which advised customers that KYC was required if they went ahead with the transaction.

I kindly request you read the post and allow the OP to get his crypto back: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4619534.msg46792439#msg46792439

After that please make an alteration to your website which forces long time dormant customers to upload KYC before they can either withdraw or deposit. Please put this episode down to experience and misunderstanding and kindly allow the OP to login and withdraw his crypto.

Thank you

The thread you quote is from a scammy exchange with hidden office somewhere in Russia. Of course they don't comply with KYC laws.

I challenge you to look at any exchange that is in a reputable jurisdiction. They all freeze accounts when they have to by law. Bitcointalk tends to be the moaning board when that happens. BIttrex froze over 20000 of such accounts because they were required to do so by law.

Surely you are not advocating breaking the law because that is what I'm hearing.  Why the OP doesn't want to provide KYC nobody really knows - he doesn't trust them with his id but he trusted them for 6 years with 35000 euro. What if he turns out to be a scammer, hacker or from a country the exchange is prohibited to trade with ?

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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November 02, 2018, 12:55:24 AM
 #112


Please will you look at this post from another situation where there was a huge problem regarding KYC. The exchange withheld funds for 4 months and in the end released it back to the customer and then made changes to their system which advised customers that KYC was required if they went ahead with the transaction.

I kindly request you read the post and allow the OP to get his crypto back: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4619534.msg46792439#msg46792439

After that please make an alteration to your website which forces long time dormant customers to upload KYC before they can either withdraw or deposit. Please put this episode down to experience and misunderstanding and kindly allow the OP to login and withdraw his crypto.

Thank you

The thread you quote is from a scammy exchange with hidden office somewhere in Russia. Of course they don't comply with KYC laws.

I challenge you to look at any exchange that is in a reputable jurisdiction. They all freeze accounts when they have to by law. Bitcointalk tends to be the moaning board when that happens. BIttrex froze over 20000 of such accounts because they were required to do so by law.

Surely you are not advocating breaking the law because that is what I'm hearing.  Why the OP doesn't want to provide KYC nobody really knows - he doesn't trust them with his id but he trusted them for 6 years with 35000 euro. What if he turns out to be a scammer, hacker or from a country the exchange is prohibited to trade with ?

Thank you for your post. Could you please explain how you are connected to Rock Trading.

I advocate nothing except a resolution that satisfies both parties. The status quo only benefits the exchange. As for why the OP is not sending his ID, I do not know but I would certainly never send my ID to any exchange. In this case the exchange holds all the cards so after the OP sends ID maybe he fears they will invoke other clauses and make life difficult for him.

What I do know is what I stated to eliale in a previous post:

He is one of your oldest customers, dating back to 6 years. If you wanted to apply KYC then your CTO should not have misled the OP and when he deposited his XRP you should flagged him up a warning informing him that should he continue he will have to send KYC.

Please will you look at this post from another situation where there was a huge problem regarding KYC. The exchange withheld funds for 4 months and in the end released it back to the customer and then made changes to their system which advised customers that KYC was required if they went ahead with the transaction.

I kindly request you read the post and allow the OP to get his crypto back: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4619534.msg46792439#msg46792439

After that please make an alteration to your website which forces long time dormant customers to upload KYC before they can either withdraw or deposit. Please put this episode down to experience and misunderstanding and kindly allow the OP to login and withdraw his crypto.

Thank you

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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November 02, 2018, 02:50:40 AM
 #113

1) Customer accepted all our new TOS and policies.
2) Customer has FIAT funds on the account.
3) We must follow EU laws and our legal team agreed with our procedures

Another scan made. Thank you.

Look like he talks about the "new" TOS, trying to suggest there are something new and relevant about their TOS.

His "new" TOS (April?) changed nothing about verification. I already debunked it completely as a ground for what he is doing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg46225609#msg46225609

He has thousands of unverified customers with fiat on their wallets. Because they only need to verify if they want to withdraw their fiat as the Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 and their FAQ says. I don't want to withdraw fiat.

Look how he keeps invoking EU laws, that he know aren't applicable to this case. He doesn't have courage to say directives any longer, but he keeps invoking some mysterious EU Laws.


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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November 02, 2018, 03:13:04 AM
Last edit: November 02, 2018, 03:56:09 AM by xtraelv
 #114

Thank you for your post. Could you please explain how you are connected to Rock Trading.

I'm not connected to the exchange. I hadn't even heard of them prior to seeing this thread.

I have a liking for exchanges, exchange technology and don't like seeing them unfairly tainted due to legislation forced upon them. This is currently happening worldwide. I have a strong interest in Crypto legislation and Crypto forensics.

I know that the majority of bitcoiners like to remain anonymous and while that is possible in some cases:
Where a small amount of funds is involved. (Depends on territorial limits)
Where the user is not identified as a risk.

Where exchanges are located in questionable jurisdictions or the exchange has questionable legal status like with the example that you provided.

So how are you connected to the OP ?

Have you read the applicable Italian law ? I have - and my opinion is that the exchange has the law on their side. It is pointless having a further discussion with him because he is ignoring anything that contradicts his stance.

I advocate nothing except a resolution that satisfies both parties. The status quo only benefits the exchange. As for why the OP is not sending his ID, I do not know but I would certainly never send my ID to any exchange.

Tax evasion, questionable source of funds, money laundering, being from a prohibited country or a compromised account are all a possibility.

Like I stated before. People who post on here - unless their RLI is known may not be who they appear to be.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4679939 RLI of scammer exposed
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2267728.0 Thousands of Bittrex accounts frozen due to KYC requirements
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1407402.0;all Poloniex account frozen
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85977.msg1037908#msg1037908 money laundering exposed (Link explained here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2049335.msg20417703#msg20417703 )


In this case the exchange holds all the cards so after the OP sends ID maybe he fears they will invoke other clauses and make life difficult for him.

The exchange is between a rock and a hard place. They don't hold all the cards. If they have been directed by a enforcement authority they may not even be able to disclose the reason for the freezing of the funds. If they have not been directed by an enforcement authority then they are acting on what they believe to be their legal obligations as advised by their lawyer.
I believe they are acting to the best of their ability based on the advise given by their lawyers. I don't know what law firm they use but I posted 3 legal opinions previously in the thread from different Italian law firms that all support the stance from the exchange.

Currently it is a Mexican standoff - with neither party likely to budge.

Exchange owners are advised by their lawyers they are not likely to know the exact laws to quote or the finer details. They rely on external opinions.

The OP will never admit that they are breaching any of the rules because it is not in their interest. He says he has a "lawyer" but has not stated who that is. He says he is taking it to the authorities but has not done so.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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November 02, 2018, 04:31:24 AM
Last edit: November 02, 2018, 04:54:23 AM by Coinfan
 #115

You quoted opinions out of place, like quoting articles of the Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, while completely ignoring that its article 3, n.º 5, i), explicitly limits its application to crypto exchanges to fiat withdrawal operations.

Or quoting articles of the 5 AML european directive of 2018 that is not in force in Italy because it hasn't been adopted yet by italian legislation.

Basically, you are saying that the Rock has been operating outside of the Law by allowing unverified customers to trade there.

But since their TOS and FAQ were approved by the italian authorities this year when they moved back to Italy, this isn't clearly the case.

Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 is very clear: there is no duty to KYC to customers who don't request fiat withdrawals.

And their FAQ is even clear: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

I have a scan, but it's also recorded here https://archive.fo/BNSfb in case they decide to change it (that would just confirm that they had no authority to do what they are doing and wouldn't apply retroactively to my case).


SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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November 02, 2018, 07:06:29 AM
 #116

You quoted opinions out of place, like quoting articles of the Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017, while completely ignoring that its article 3, n.º 5, i), explicitly limits its application to crypto exchanges to fiat withdrawal operations.

Or quoting articles of the 5 AML european directive of 2018 that is not in force in Italy because it hasn't been adopted yet by italian legislation.

Basically, you are saying that the Rock has been operating outside of the Law by allowing unverified customers to trade there.

But since their TOS and FAQ were approved by the italian authorities this year when they moved back to Italy, this isn't clearly the case.

Legislative Decree No. 90 of 25 May 2017 is very clear: there is no duty to KYC to customers who don't request fiat withdrawals.

And their FAQ is even clear: “Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw fiat currencies you will need it” https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27.

I have a scan, but it's also recorded here https://archive.fo/BNSfb in case they decide to change it (that would just confirm that they had no authority to do what they are doing and wouldn't apply retroactively to my case).



Yep -sure. Me and the three articles I provided from prominent Italian law firms are wrong according to you and you and your anonymous lawyer are right.

All the points you have made I have already previously addressed or is just BS.

Prove it in court and I'll believe you. Let me know how you got on when you are done.

In the meantime I am of the opinion that the Italian government has created legislation that cracks down on money laundering and tax evasion .

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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November 02, 2018, 10:06:53 AM
Last edit: November 02, 2018, 10:19:14 AM by JollyGood
 #117

So how are you connected to the OP ?

I am not connected to the OP.

I am posting here because I see the OP being treated unfairly and as with other issues I got involved with I just am trying to help out.

As for the points you raised, I broadly disagree with them all.

The CTO overstepped his remit and gave false information to the OP which resulted in all this mess. The blame lay clearly with the exchange and not the OP but this can be resolved without the customer sending ID and without the exchange sending FIAT. The resolution is for them to allow the OP to login and then send his crypto (which he is the owner of) to his desktop wallet as it will not breach any domestic/EU/international AML/KYC laws which are being exaggerated in many cases across many exchanges in order to steal funds by selective scamming. Again, not saying that is happening here but I am really not impressed with the way the exchange has handled this.

The exchange has allowed customers to deposit funds without notifying them they need to send KYC when withdrawing, they should amend that function so customers cannot deposit anything until KYC has been verified and in the interim they should return crypto to all customers in the OPs position.



@eliale

Please reply: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47500695#msg47500695

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
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November 02, 2018, 05:48:32 PM
 #118

Scammer Medri/eliale your paid poster gave me negative feedback working under your orders. Guess who is going to pay for this? I hope you like your picture. I just made you famous a few days ago. Check http://andrea-medri.simplesite.com
If your paid poster keeps annoying me I will add this site to my signature.

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November 03, 2018, 01:49:58 AM
Last edit: November 03, 2018, 02:46:41 AM by xtraelv
 #119


I am not connected to the OP.

I am posting here because I see the OP being treated unfairly and as with other issues I got involved with I just am trying to help out.

As for the points you raised, I broadly disagree with them all.

The CTO overstepped his remit and gave false information to the OP which resulted in all this mess. The blame lay clearly with the exchange and not the OP but this can be resolved without the customer sending ID and without the exchange sending FIAT. The resolution is for them to allow the OP to login and then send his crypto (which he is the owner of) to his desktop wallet as it will not breach any domestic/EU/international AML/KYC laws which are being exaggerated in many cases across many exchanges in order to steal funds by selective scamming. Again, not saying that is happening here but I am really not impressed with the way the exchange has handled this.

The exchange has allowed customers to deposit funds without notifying them they need to send KYC when withdrawing, they should amend that function so customers cannot deposit anything until KYC has been verified and in the interim they should return crypto to all customers in the OPs position.



@eliale

Please reply: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47500695#msg47500695

The CTO spoke to the OP a number of years ago. The AML laws changed in 2017. The TOS changed reasonably recently. (It was mentioned in the thread). Like I said earlier I doubt this is going to get resolved without the op lodging it with the authorities.

Unfortunately most things don't get resolved on a public forum. Some exchanges don't even bother with bitcointalk anymore since some users have no understanding of legal requirements and some just don't want to know.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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November 04, 2018, 03:42:41 PM
 #120

Thanks for keep bumping my thread. Smiley

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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November 04, 2018, 04:52:45 PM
 #121

Let me ad my two satoshi here.

What i gathered by reading all this is clear:

User opened account to trade crypto and nothing else.  By TOS he is not required to disclose his details unless he wish to withdraw FIAT-usd/eur or what ever they allowing.
OP is not owner of account in that exchange but it is owner of the funds deposited to this account.

What i cannot understand is , why exchange owners pushing so hard to do KYC to make sure account is really OPs not hacker's.

If therock wish to go full kyc mod i suggest inform before deposit reach account. Otherwise its just simply scam which targeting people who wish to stay anonymous.
I can see pattern here where exchanges trying scam users out of their funds using KYC/AML which only should be applied in terms of fiat.


The hacker card is only a safety procedure to protect customer funds.  Of course, if the account has been hacked, the hacker would have all the information posted on this forum.

Still some other facts:

1) Customer accepted all our new TOS and policies.
2) Customer has FIAT funds on the account.
3) We must follow EU laws and our legal team agreed with our procedures
4) We are in EU and not off shore. If the customer does not any longer agree with our terms, it is possible to report it to the authorities

In conclusion, we are not asking for his DNA  

we do need:

1) A valid ID
2) A selfie with the ID
3) A recent POA

We do this with thousands of customers and, since 2014 (when we started to collect documents) we never had one single security issue or leak of information.

Is the above strange for a regulated entity? It is standard......


I think its strange to ask for this even knowing your TOS didnt have that part included. So in other words: " you just make that shit up about hacker to keep his funds".
Holding/Trading FIAT is not the same as witdrawing FIAT. So again i think you just going way over the line with this KYC stuff


If THEROCK wish to make sure account is in control same person why not ask OP to deposit any crypto using same wallets as previosuly or sign message using private keys?

At the end of the day funds must be returned to who even is the owner of them.

I think wider exposure - reddit/ twitter / other forums will make people aware of this kind of practices. Might be wise for therock to recosnider stance. Or maybe funds already are gone for boong boonga parties and this type of stuff?

Thanks for making people aware OP.
Do not let it go, pussh them and make people aware everywhere.
Eventually this type of scammers will be exposed and with a bit of help from community they will be out of business.

 
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November 04, 2018, 04:55:40 PM
 #122

Let me ad my two satoshi here.

What i gathered by reading all this is clear:

User opened account to trade crypto and nothing else.  By TOS he is not required to disclose his details unless he wish to withdraw FIAT-usd/eur or what ever they allowing.
OP is not owner of account in that exchange but it is owner of the funds deposited to this account.

What i cannot understand is , why exchange owners pushing so hard to do KYC to make sure account is really OPs not hacker's.


If therock wish to go full kyc mod i suggest inform before deposit reach account. Otherwise its just simply scam which targeting people who wish to stay anonymous.
I can see pattern here where exchanges trying scam users out of their funds using KYC/AML which only should be applied in terms of fiat.

If THEROCK wish to make sure accunt is in control same person why not ask OP to deposit any crypto using same wallets as previosuly or sign message using private keys?

At the end of the day funds must be returned to who even is the owner of them.

I think wider exposure - reddit/ twitter / other forums will make people aware of this kind of practices. Might be wise for therock to recosnider stance. Or maybe funds already are gone for boong boonga parties and this type of stuff?

Thanks for making people aware OP.
Do not let it go, pussh them and make people aware everywhere.
Eventually this type of scammers will be exposed and with a bit of help from community they will be out of business.

I raised the same point.

The exchange clearly has ulterior motives. I was incorrectly told KYC/AML is mandatory but I disputed it then and dispute it now.

They really should think about an exit strategy to get out of this by returning the crypto (and saving-face if they wish) otherwise the negative PR will be affecting their business badly.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
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November 05, 2018, 07:34:03 AM
 #123

Please read our FAQ:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

per our sole discretion we can require additional information or documents despite the status

Also read:

https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5


and

https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

in particular:

8. AML REQUIREMENTS

1. When registering on the Website, the User is required to provide any necessary information and/or documents that TRT deems, in its sole discretion, to be suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy (see the Anti-Money Laundering Policy adopted by TRT).

2. During the account verification process, the User must provide all documents that will be required. In particular, by registering an account on the Website, the user agrees to provide TRT, or another party delegated to carry out the anti-money laundering obligations imposed by law on behalf of TRT, with updated, accurate and complete information as required by the registration process, as well as to keep this information updated.

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

5. Documents, data, photos and other information material collected during the registration and verification of an account are subject to the retention requirement that TRT has to comply with under the anti-money laundering regulations, also using the services offered by a third party provider.

6. TRT applies regular checks on user accounts also through the request to provide information on the origin of the Assets if and when expressed or converted into virtual currency or legal tender currency. In addition, TRT is entitled to block or freeze any User account, at its discretion and without prior notice, in case of suspected illegal origin of the Assets.


As you can understand, due to GDPR laws and privacy issues, we cannot enter in further details and the specific reasons for the halt of his account.

Again we strongly suggest the customer, if he/she doesn't want to comply with our rules, to open a claim with he authorities in order to solve this issue.

Thank you


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November 05, 2018, 09:37:09 AM
 #124

Please read our FAQ:

https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

per our sole discretion we can require additional information or documents despite the status

Also read:

https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/5


and

https://www.therocktrading.com/en/service_terms/3

in particular:

8. AML REQUIREMENTS

1. When registering on the Website, the User is required to provide any necessary information and/or documents that TRT deems, in its sole discretion, to be suitable to maintain compliance with any law, regulation and internal policy (see the Anti-Money Laundering Policy adopted by TRT).

2. During the account verification process, the User must provide all documents that will be required. In particular, by registering an account on the Website, the user agrees to provide TRT, or another party delegated to carry out the anti-money laundering obligations imposed by law on behalf of TRT, with updated, accurate and complete information as required by the registration process, as well as to keep this information updated.

3. In the event of anomalous or not completely transparent operations on the User's account, TRT may request further information from the User, including but not limited to document authentication, and may also freeze all transactions pending the performance of the appropriate checks on the account.

4. TRT is entitled to block, suspend and close accounts of Users who have not been properly verified, notwithstanding any useful efforts by TRT to contact the User and urge the completion of the due verification process.

5. Documents, data, photos and other information material collected during the registration and verification of an account are subject to the retention requirement that TRT has to comply with under the anti-money laundering regulations, also using the services offered by a third party provider.

6. TRT applies regular checks on user accounts also through the request to provide information on the origin of the Assets if and when expressed or converted into virtual currency or legal tender currency. In addition, TRT is entitled to block or freeze any User account, at its discretion and without prior notice, in case of suspected illegal origin of the Assets.


As you can understand, due to GDPR laws and privacy issues, we cannot enter in further details and the specific reasons for the halt of his account.

Again we strongly suggest the customer, if he/she doesn't want to comply with our rules, to open a claim with he authorities in order to solve this issue.

Thank you



Am very disappointed with this reply.

It is looking more and more like selective scamming.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
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November 05, 2018, 10:29:35 AM
 #125

I'm sorry about it.

This is why we strongly suggest to go straight to the authorities in order to solve the issue if he/she does not agree with us.  Scammers do not suggest it.....

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November 05, 2018, 02:22:00 PM
Last edit: November 05, 2018, 07:49:41 PM by JollyGood
 #126

I'm sorry about it.

This is why we strongly suggest to go straight to the authorities in order to solve the issue if he/she does not agree with us.  Scammers do not suggest it.....



@eliale
I do not understand why you have taken a very negative stance on this. No matter what you say KYC is not mandatory for this situation. You are obviously making life difficult for the OP. This conduct has been picked up by several people in the forum too.

You stated above "per our sole discretion we can require additional information or documents despite the status" shows you have ulterior motives and that any of your customers could be next.

I had never heard of Rock Trading before I saw the OP and can never recommend it to anybody after seeing what you have done to the OP. If anything, this situation will bring you negative PR and since you are not exactly a well known exchange doing daily volumes at the rates of Binance or Bittrex even though you say you have been in existence since 2011 you have let others come along and leave your exchange behind. The bad press and bad PR will be very detrimental for your cause.




@Coinfan
It has been pointed out to the Rock Trading that they do not require KYC in this instance but they are continuing to make life difficult for you.

To me this is a case of selective scamming. They had plenty of opportunities to clear this up and release your crypto but they have declined to assist and it seems they are holding a grudge against you for informing all of us of the situation.

I suggest you follow the legal channels route now.

Please send a PM with details other than what have been posted here so I can decide whether to add Rock Trading to my Scam Alert signature

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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November 05, 2018, 06:54:56 PM
 #127

It really seems that the only thing the "The Rock Trading" representative is doing right now is just adding salt to the wound and have no intention to actually help or resolve the situation

Going to the authorities is the only thing left tbh

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
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November 05, 2018, 07:16:30 PM
 #128

It really seems that the only thing the "The Rock Trading" representative is doing right now is just adding salt to the wound and have no intention to actually help or resolve the situation

Going to the authorities is the only thing left tbh


Its simply silly approach by this exchange owners.
Its just showing how little willing to do to release funds which was not in question before "new" TOS showed up or been created. Beside what kind of excuse is : "user have fiat in account so KYC is needed"
I bet this so called exchange which i never heard about it simply trying screw this OP of his funds.

What exactly KYC will change in OP's situation? Because definatelly not gonna prove that he is who he say he is as this will be first KYC with him and therefore user is not known to exchange at all.

I would argue if Op done KYC at the beggining and now they asking again to do so - would make sense. But if he never done it it means anyone (friends/family ) can upload docs and selfie and sorted.
Is this exactly what you want Therock or maybe simply you already spent his funds and looking to delay this untuill he will drop this pursuit?

This has nothing to do with KYC and AML as you simply hiding behind it to hold his funds. Explanation that he has FIAT in his account is just silly if not stupid and you really looking for anything to delay him withdrawals of his crypto.

People keep bumping this up and make it clear this so called exchange will screw anyone with silly reasons and silly excuses.
Once they loose non existent volume this will maybe teach them lesson to not change terms as they wish midterm.

OP, you can always upload details of family member or friend and they will not know if thats really you or not.

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November 05, 2018, 07:53:36 PM
 #129

It really seems that the only thing the "The Rock Trading" representative is doing right now is just adding salt to the wound and have no intention to actually help or resolve the situation

Going to the authorities is the only thing left tbh


Its simply silly approach by this exchange owners.
Its just showing how little willing to do to release funds which was not in question before "new" TOS showed up or been created. Beside what kind of excuse is : "user have fiat in account so KYC is needed"
I bet this so called exchange which i never heard about it simply trying screw this OP of his funds.

What exactly KYC will change in OP's situation? Because definatelly not gonna prove that he is who he say he is as this will be first KYC with him and therefore user is not known to exchange at all.

I would argue if Op done KYC at the beggining and now they asking again to do so - would make sense. But if he never done it it means anyone (friends/family ) can upload docs and selfie and sorted.
Is this exactly what you want Therock or maybe simply you already spent his funds and looking to delay this untuill he will drop this pursuit?

This has nothing to do with KYC and AML as you simply hiding behind it to hold his funds. Explanation that he has FIAT in his account is just silly if not stupid and you really looking for anything to delay him withdrawals of his crypto.

People keep bumping this up and make it clear this so called exchange will screw anyone with silly reasons and silly excuses.
Once they loose non existent volume this will maybe teach them lesson to not change terms as they wish midterm.

OP, you can always upload details of family member or friend and they will not know if thats really you or not.

I have been patient enough trying to get the exchange to see sense and to help find a suitable way out for both parties but the Rock Trading has been atrocious in their reasoning for keeping hold of the OPs crypto.

I have added them to my Scam Alert signature. It was long overdue but I wanted to wait until all avenues to help the OP get his funds back had been exhausted.

I also left appropriate negative Trust

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
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November 06, 2018, 05:26:09 PM
Last edit: November 06, 2018, 05:48:37 PM by Coinfan
 #130

Eliale keeps lying about their TOS and FAQ. I completely debunked with the help of my lawyer both as a ground to what they are doing.

When someone quotes a series of articles without relaying only on one, you know he doesn't know what he is saying or is just a bogus post to confuse.


The note he is selectively quoting again reads:
"Nota:

    per our sole discretion we can require additional informations or documents despite the status
    without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly
    please read our AML policy"
https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=64

This note says they can require additional information or documents. So, it applies to verified customers that already sent information/documents, not to unverified. It intends to apply to situations of expired or fake documents.

That is completely confirmed by the consequence of not complying with the request for additional documents: "without updated and proper documentation FIAT deposits or withdrawals will be delayed until updated properly".

A consequence that only applies to customers that can do fiat withdrawals: verified customers. The note doesn't say they can block unverified accounts or demand verification.

And it couldn't ever say that without nullifying completely their FAQ clear statement: "Verification is not mandatory, but in order to deposit/withdraw FIAT currencies you will need it."

I also debunked their chapter 8 on AML REQUIREMENTS


Rule 1 applies only during registration. I'm registered for more than 7 years.
Rule 2 describes the verification process: doesn't create any new ground to start one and also reports it self to the "as required by the registration process" or to update information on the documents sent.
Rule 3 and 6 depends on suspicious transactions or suspicions on the illegal origin of the founds. They haven't even tried to substantiate this. They know my money was earned there, trading for 7 years.
Rule 4: applies to Users who have not been properly verified. Not unverified users, but users who have not complete properly the verification process. Who sent fake documents or are suspected of money laundering. So, 8.4 talks about "completion of the due verification process". Completion not beginning of the verification process.
And the verification must be "due". It isn't due to unverified customers as your FAQ makes clear:

 Verification isn't mandatory. Since unverified customers can´t do fiat withdrawals they can't launder money. They enter with crypto and they leave with crypto, so they launder nothing."
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg45001851#msg45001851

They are breaching completely their TOS and FAQ and also Italian Law.

Why they are doing? They have 35519 reasons to do it.

He wrote a scammer don't invite the victim to go to the authorities? On the contrary, scammers are the ones who force victims to go to the authorities.

He thinks I have something to hide and he is betting I won't go to the authorities and he will be able to keep my money "forever". "Forever" was his expression: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.msg47458158#msg47458158

He is also lying when he says the CTO Paci abused his authority when he wrote to me on 21 August 2018 saying I didn't have to send my documents to them. Paci would never wrote that without Eliale agreement. And he isn't just the CTO, he is also a founder and owner of the Rock.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
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November 08, 2018, 01:54:38 AM
 #131

Scammer eliale/medri your paidposter gave me more negative feedback. Thus enjoy my new signature.

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November 08, 2018, 07:31:43 PM
 #132

So whats the development? Looks like TheRock really trying hard to hide this scam attempt by uainf sockpuppets.

Not good , really not good.
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November 08, 2018, 11:34:03 PM
Last edit: November 08, 2018, 11:55:55 PM by Coinfan
 #133

Thanks a lot for your support, s1lverbox. Maybe a negative feedback from you will make them see the light.

They already are on a fight with me and just got another personal one with r34tr783tr78, they won't dare to react to any negative feedback.

They don't seem to realize that their future and the future of the Rock is on the line. They are gambling with jail time, a heavy fine and a compulsory shutdown of the Rock.

Moreover, what they are doing is destroying the Rock.

They have a tiny trade volume, they have a trading bot on the Rock providing liquidity that most likely made them lose a lot on the crash of bitcoin and bitcoin price isn't going to improve on the next months. So, more customers are going away.

This mess will seal their destiny.

And if they only return the money forced by the authorities, this thread and all my other posts will stay online forever, as they are, driving away the few active customers that they have.

PS. There is no real new TOS, this is just another lie. Their TOS didn't change anything on verification. And their FAQ still says that "verification isn't mandatory" https://support.therocktrading.com/kb/faq.php?id=27




SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
JollyGood
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November 10, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
 #134

So whats the development? Looks like TheRock really trying hard to hide this scam attempt by uainf sockpuppets.

Not good , really not good.

A couple of sock-puppets yes but I have them on IGNORE as I cannot be bothered to read or reply to their trashy posts anymore.

As for their reputation, both the alt-accounts and of-course Rock Trading itself, it is in tatters. I doubt the figures they claim they trade daily are even true... this "exchange" is hardly a game changer.

I feel sorry for the OP as he will not have to take legal action against this Rock Trading scammers just to get back what it already his.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
Coinfan
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November 11, 2018, 01:02:18 AM
 #135

Thanks for making people aware OP.
Do not let it go, pussh them and make people aware everywhere.
Eventually this type of scammers will be exposed and with a bit of help from community they will be out of business.

I told them that the consequences of this publicity would be on them. They decided to create this. They are the ones who are destroying the Rock by holding my money and saying that they are ready to keep it "forever" (cit).

As for their reputation, both the alt-accounts and of-course Rock Trading itself, it is in tatters. I doubt the figures they claim they trade daily are even true... this "exchange" is hardly a game changer.

I don't now if their bot trades with itself. But their volume would hardly pay for their costs.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
Coinfan
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November 13, 2018, 02:58:50 AM
 #136

If they think this is going away, they will discover that they are very wrong.

They already lost this public fight, but the real one hasn't even started. And will have much more daring consequences to them.

SCAM ALERT: The Rock Trading Exchange (www.therocktrading.com): Deceives bitcoiners to create unverified accounts, blocks the withdrawals covertly in order to let the user keep depositing money and uses every pretext to keep it blocked "forever".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4975753.0
https://www.coinmedicate.com/the-rock-trading-selective-scam/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025233.0
https://therocktradingscam.home.blog/
https://therocktradingscam.weebly.com/
s1lverbox
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November 13, 2018, 03:20:25 PM
 #137

Did posted to Reddit. Also friend of mine looking in to the facts and genesis of the rock. Once he got all info he said he will
publish article about all links and people around it.

Stay sharp OP and don't let it go. Eventually something will happen.

JollyGood
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November 13, 2018, 03:24:18 PM
 #138

From what I see the Rock Trading are a bunch of scammers. They scammed the OP simply because he did not login for a long time.

They seem a greedy bunch of scammers that is all.

SCAMS|| ADAB SOLUTIONS || BANKERA || BETKING BITSAFE & DEAN NOLAN || BITINGLE || CHANGELLY CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP || COINSBIT || CRYPTOKNOWMICS || FURTCOIN || FLYP.ME || HITBTC || HOLY TRANSACTION || HUMANCOIN ||
||
HUMANITYONE || MINEXCOIN || MOBILEGO || REPUBLIA || ROCK TRADING || SOVRANOCOIN || SPECTROCOIN || SWIFTEX EXCHANGE || TOKENPAY || TRADESATOSHI || ULORD || VIBEO || 520bit/vitalii_invest/RoyalTeam ||
|| READ MY FULL SCAM LIST
eliale
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November 13, 2018, 04:17:44 PM
 #139

From what I see the Rock Trading are a bunch of scammers. They scammed the OP simply because he did not login for a long time.

They seem a greedy bunch of scammers that is all.

We are waiting from our law firm https://aclaw.eu/it/home/ the English versione but, in the meanwhile, I'm posting the Italian one:

A beneficio di tutti gli utenti si precisa quanto segue.

The Rock Trading ha sede in Italia da 27/04/2018 ed è dunque soggetta alla normativa di tale Paese.

L’operatività di The Rock Trading è riconducibile ai “prestatori di servizi relativi all'utilizzo di valuta virtuale” (cfr. art, 1, c. 2, D.lgs. 231/2007 - Decreto AML) e, in particolare, ai sensi dell’art. 3, c. 5, lett. “i”, di tale decreto, The Rock Trading è tenuta a rispettare gli obblighi di contrasto al riciclaggio di denaro e al finanziamento del terrorismo, nell’ambito dello svolgimento dell'attività di conversione di valute virtuali da ovvero in valute aventi corso forzoso.

Nella relazione con gli utenti del sito, The Rock Trading è tenuta a rispettare gli obblighi di adeguata verifica della clientela declinati al Titolo II del Decreto AML. In sintesi, tali adempimenti si attuano attraverso:

1)   l’identificazione del cliente, esecutore e titolare effettivo;
2)   la verifica del cliente, esecutore e titolare effettivo;
3)   l'acquisizione e la valutazione di informazioni sullo scopo e sulla natura del rapporto;
4)   il controllo costante del rapporto con il cliente.

L’applicazione ai prestatori di servizi relativi all’utilizzo di valuta virtuale degli obblighi antiriciclaggio è una peculiarità italiana, che con la c.d. “V Direttiva AML” (Direttiva 843/2018) è stata comunque estesa a tutti gli Stati membri.

Per operare in Italia, pertanto, The Rock Trading ha aggiornato i propri termini e condizioni contrattuali (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/3) l’informativa privacy (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/4) e la politica antiriciclaggio (https://www.therocktrading.com/it/service_terms/5) e tutti i clienti sono stati invitati a prendere visione ed a accettare le nuove condizioni prima di continuare ad operare.

Alla luce di ciò, in conformità al Decreto AML e ai Termini e Condizioni contrattuali, The Rock Trading:

1)   impone agli utenti di fornire “le informazioni e/o documenti necessari che TRT medesima ritenga, a propria esclusiva discrezione, idonei a mantenere la conformità a qualsiasi legge, regolamento e politica interna” (cfr. art. 8, c. 1, Termini e Condizioni);
2)   “in caso di un’operatività anomala o non completamente trasparente dell’account dell’utente, TRT potrà richiedere all’utente medesimo ulteriori informazioni, tra cui a titolo esemplificativo e non esaustivo l'autenticazione dei documenti, e potrà altresì congelare tutte le transazioni in attesa di effettuare le opportune verifiche dell’account” (cfr. art. 8, c. 3, Termini e Condizioni);
3)   “si riserva il diritto di bloccare, sospendere e chiudere gli account di utenti per i quali non sia stata espletata l’adeguata