The role of Crypto in eliminating fossil fuels dependence

[byteball]

There is Peak Oil theory (which can be rebranded also Peak Natural Gas, Peak Coal, Peak Freshwater etc.)
that states global oil production has already peaked years ago and now we are in decline, that threatens
civilization as we know it.
There are a lot of skeptics who don't believe and try to ridicule people speaking about alternative
sources of energy. I don't mean wind turbines, they are too costly to play a major factor.
I also don't mean chemical solar panels, for the same reason: amortization costs.
Growing crops while using a lot of petrol for their agriculture to turn them into fuel is also ridiculous.
But there are other sources, that physicists speak of now and then and usually establishment reacts
with ridiculing them and silencing them in a lot of ways that are at establishment's disposal.

It seems that today's Central Banking is pinned on the idea of centralized control of resources.
Once there is decentralized energy source anywhere, this place can begin to print it's own money backed
by this additional energy, unaccounted so far.
And the only way to finance such developments seems to me is through altcoins.
Please share your thoughts.

[davis196]

That's just a theory without any evidence.The planet earth has oil reserves for the next 50 years.
I remember that there was another theory coming from soviet or russian scientists that oil is actually a renewable resource and the oil supply will never end.This is another hypothesis without proof.
So far,the crypto world has no role into eliminating fossil fuels usage.I hope that this will change soon.

[justspare]

I think the problem is real and we really are going over to the period of when fossil fuels will be scarce and humanity will not go thru an easy adjustment period but honestly do you really believe all of humanity can go down in flames just because of this ?

I am pretty sure we are already finding a lot of clean energy sources for at least electricity and considering even the electric cars are getting more and more known all over the world and the solar panels and wind tribunes and nuclear energy and all of that getting more known and used by countries and get more help from governments it is getting a lot easier.

I agree that we are going to a bad place on fossil fuel problems but I do not believe the clean energy we have is "ridiculous", they are actually real cool and will help us out.

[1Referee]

The planet earth has oil reserves for the next 50 years.

Assuming (for the sake of argument) 50 years is accurate, we could practically stretch it all the way to +100 years with some minor adjustments.

I think the biggest problem is the ease of consuming fossil resources just because it's available right now in pretty much any quantity. It lowers the main incentive to actually dig through all this to find ways to limit use of fossil resources, but without losing productivity and thus billions in revenue and profits.

Most people in today's world live in the here and now, where every potential obstacle in the next couple of years is something they prefer to deal with by that time instead of now. This mentality is quite damaging and doesn't really make much sense to me, but then again, we're just small fishes. The main players have all the incentive to sell you dirty fossil resources in the here and now.

[tanzaholzmann]

I think it's a difficult problem about fuel from petroleum and I was surprised to hear one to finance using Altcoin

[chocolah29]

This issue is always a big role for every country's economics as they see this as a factor of how rich the country is. And by eliminating the fossil fuels that aims to convert in renewable sources is a big help especially for those countries that lack of fuel resources. And in return, fuel price will decrease and will take a domino effect in all our commodities. Isn't it great? Inflation will be lessen, surely.

If this thing really push through, world economy will grow drastically though this issue need more study even though it's really feasible.

[Ilegendph]

That's just a theory without any evidence.The planet earth has oil reserves for the next 50 years.
I remember that there was another theory coming from soviet or russian scientists that oil is actually a renewable resource and the oil supply will never end.This is another hypothesis without proof.
So far,the crypto world has no role into eliminating fossil fuels usage.I hope that this will change soon.

Its not just the fossil fules but also take into considreations the material we use for making money like copper, silver and nickel. If the world will use cryptocurrency as mode of exchange for every commodities, the banks would not need anymore of this materials and thus mining of this materials would be minimized. Government could also preserved mountains were this materials could get from to protect the environment. As of now, this is only a theory but i believe that someday it would be in front of my eyes because I want this world to last longer.

[7Dyoknga5]

And what are those other resources you're saying?

There are a lot of ways to generate energy but you sure are right about the expensiveness of the generation cost. If such projects will be built and be funded by crypto's, the crypto should be recognized by a lot of country as it will be the medium of transaction.

With regards to printing of money, I don't quite understand the notion but you can't just easily print money as it could cause inflation.

[Gozie51]

What we are observing lately is under the independency theory. The world has gone pass beyond the usual way of doing things or living. Every country is looking at developing there nation via technology, this is why we are moving from fuel use to different alternatives like water, solar and huge usage of electricity.

[byteball]

That's just a theory without any evidence.The planet earth has oil reserves for the next 50 years.
I remember that there was another theory coming from soviet or russian scientists that oil is actually a renewable resource and the oil supply will never end.This is another hypothesis without proof...

Yes, that was called "abiogenic hypothesis" - but even if they are much larger or endless (e.g. natural gas will be enough for hundreds of years more) they are centralized. Fracking is dangerous, and normal deposits are concentrated in the Middle East, Arctic, some parts of US so that creates a lot of tensions around those regions.
Industrial thermonuclear power would also be very centralized. But what about "cold fusion" (hotly debated) and things like that - decentralized things?

Inflation will be lessen[ed], surely.

I guess once we dethrone fossil fuels as a centralized source of energy, the issuers of money will be in more honest competition with each other.
Deflational Bitcoin will be competing in a more freemarket way with inflational fiats.
That will force fiats to become less inflational and generally "better" as money (otherwise they will be driven out by "good" money) - better in all ways: as medium of exchange, as unit of measurement, as store of value (and fiat being awful SoV now, especially with the global rally of devaluation towards USD).

[carlisle1]

You are getting too deep in economic problem and now you become more dramatic than those economists

Just like those concerns in the world after 100 years,you are making the issue more exaggerated and not believable at all.world will survive as long as God let us here,because if God wants were a deadman by now

[byteball]

You are getting too deep in economic problem and now you become more dramatic than those economists

Just like those concerns in the world after 100 years...

I personally am not concerned with world ending due to depletion of fuels, though I was before (I don't know what other people who posted replies think)...
What I am concerned is too much centralization in production and transmission of energy. There are important points of possible failure, the most popular to speak about is Iran closing the strait of Hormuz in response to some drastic action from US, then US having to open their conserved oilfields and use up their stored oil from empty fields, accompanying shock on commodity prices sending waves through all markets while the military stand-off lasts and so on.

[Mjadon15]

There is Peak Oil theory (which can be rebranded also Peak Natural Gas, Peak Coal, Peak Freshwater etc.)
that states global oil production has already peaked years ago and now we are in decline, that threatens
civilization as we know it.
There are a lot of skeptics who don't believe and try to ridicule people speaking about alternative
sources of energy. I don't mean wind turbines, they are too costly to play a major factor.
I also don't mean chemical solar panels, for the same reason: amortization costs.
Growing crops while using a lot of petrol for their agriculture to turn them into fuel is also ridiculous.
But there are other sources, that physicists speak of now and then and usually establishment reacts
with ridiculing them and silencing them in a lot of ways that are at establishment's disposal.

It seems that today's Central Banking is pinned on the idea of centralized control of resources.
Once there is decentralized energy source anywhere, this place can begin to print it's own money backed
by this additional energy, unaccounted so far.
And the only way to finance such developments seems to me is through altcoins.
Please share your thoughts.

We need financial innovation and creativity to unlock Energy Efficiency investments, and to grasp these employment and growth opportunities, blockchain could be the answer. Moving beyond bitcoin, the cryptocurrency most people associate with blockchain, the technology serves as a smart transaction platform at a systematic level that gives rise to true 'prosumers', as well as consumers, households also become producers and sellers of energy with a high degree of autonomy

[Mjadon15]

In the transition to a new energy world, decentralised, digitised and decarbonised several use case applications have already been developed using blockchain technology, such as automated bill payments, electrical vehicles charging and sharing, and renewable cryptocurrencies.
Utilities and grid operators also become more efficient by being able to balance supply and demand in real-time by engaging these prosumers directly. It supports renewable energy integration into the grid in a cost-effective fashion.

[Dimon8]

I think that crypto can not in any way affect the reduction of dependence on fossil fuels (oil). Of course, it has long been necessary to act in the sphere of reducing the use of petroleum products, but unfortunately large investors are only interested in increasing their capital.

[timerland]

I doubt that cryptocurrencies themselves are able to actually "eliminate" fossil fuels themselves.

I don't really see how cryptocurrencies are able to decentralize the production of power by themselves, at least at this stage? Perhaps I just don't understand your argument fully, but it is definitely hard to see how state owned electricity generation would be able to be replaced by local, crypto issuing entities in a short period of time at least.

Please explain further what you mean, if possible. Perhaps bitcoin mining in the long run could incentivize the use of cheaper, hydro generated energy to facilitate that, but even that seems unlikely at this moment.

[byteball]

...
Please explain further what you mean, if possible. Perhaps bitcoin mining in the long run could incentivize the use of cheaper, hydro generated energy to facilitate that, but even that seems unlikely at this moment.

Well yes, bitcoin mining provides an incentive to use the energy which cannot be used in any other ways. I can put forward 3 examples:
huge amount of spare electricity that currently have to be dissipated on Nuclear Power Plants;
gas that accompanies oil production/processing and now is burned in "torches" (huge pipes seen from afar, if you have an oil refactory in your city, or from afar of functioning oil fields);
more scifi one: deploying orbital stations that dissipate solar energy into cosmos, but send mined bitcoins to Earth.

As far as these provide a promise of future profits, they can be financed by ICOs or sole BTC whales.
But these things would still be centralized. They would enrich some lucky investors but not the public.

What would be crucial for creating abundance for all (abundance doesn't mean "luxury", rather a wealth of opportunities if one is interested to pursue any) is finding ways to build new energy structures.
E.g. my alumni at Google who lives in California sells surplus of energy from solar cells during days, and buys back grid electricity cheaper at night, making his household neutral in terms of money (if you discount amortization costs of the cell itself, of course) and much less consuming in terms of actual energy than a household without such cell. But he is still dependent on both the grid and the price policy of the grid.

But I heard about greenhouses which do not use the usual way of passing electrons for their heating and lighting.
The grid we have now might be not the only theoretical physically possible kind of grid.
And the sources we have now might be not the only possible ones.

Naturally, Central Banking would not be interested in financing any of the deviating technologies of transmission and generation, even though they are ostensibly profitable (but cannot be centralized).

[d0flaming0]

i was just somewhat wondering why sometimes i often see and read here in this forum that bitcoin will replace such things like these and that or the reason for something to be eliminated. i don't really know if it is actually true but earth has much more natural resources reserve for couple or maybe hundreds of years before it will be all consumed, and in that mattet of time maybe some people wpuld develop something from scratches that can be recycled by future generations or such thing as conventional energies.

[avikz]

I don't mean wind turbines, they are too costly to play a major factor.
I also don't mean chemical solar panels, for the same reason: amortization costs.

The reason for high costs is due to the less production and demand. Also to a certain point, government policies. One can't install a wind turbine or solar panel anywhere they want. It needs special permits and land to install them. But once the production of such technologies increase, the cost will come down automatically! As of now, these two are the best resources for the alternative energy!

It seems that today's Central Banking is pinned on the idea of centralized control of resources.
Once there is decentralized energy source anywhere, this place can begin to print it's own money backed
by this additional energy, unaccounted so far.
And the only way to finance such developments seems to me is through altcoins.
Please share your thoughts.

Again government will interfere with that. Lets assume, today you have few hectors of land and suddenly you discover petroleum from that land. Government will come and buy that land from you to extract that resource. In majority of the countries, individuals can't own such a piece of land where natural resources are found. They will have to sell it off to the respective government as per the market price! So how do you think decentralized resource centers will exist??

[Kakmakr]

A lot of people simply do not care about fossil fuels negative impact on this planet. They reckon it is there and it is cheap and there is a race to consume it as fast as possible, before it runs out. 

Only when the negative consequences start to impact their financial profits directly, then they sit up and take notice. This is why tax incentives are introduced for people that reduce their reliance on fossil fuels.

These same tax incentives should be expanded to large mining farms, when they use renewable and environmental friendly generated electricity for their mining farms.   

[byteball]

I don't mean wind turbines, they are too costly to play a major factor.
I also don't mean chemical solar panels, for the same reason: amortization costs.

The reason for high costs is due to the less production and demand. Also to a certain point, government policies. One can't install a wind turbine or solar panel anywhere they want. It needs special permits and land to install them. But once the production of such technologies increase, the cost will come down automatically! As of now, these two are the best resources for the alternative energy!

I personally more believe in parabolic mirrors gathering sunlight in the desert and heating liquid sodium as carrier. They can store day's energy by pumping compressed air into ground cavities, or by moving amounts of water to create potential energy for the night. These fields of mirrors are gated and fenced enterprises which can be decentralized to an extent, but they need to be protected by a strong mafia. Question is, how decentralised mafia is possible.

It seems that today's Central Banking is pinned on the idea of centralized control of resources.
Once there is decentralized energy source anywhere, this place can begin to print it's own money backed
by this additional energy, unaccounted so far.
And the only way to finance such developments seems to me is through altcoins.
Please share your thoughts.

Again government will interfere with that. Lets assume, today you have few hectors of land and suddenly you discover petroleum from that land. Government will come and buy that land from you to extract that resource. In majority of the countries, individuals can't own such a piece of land where natural resources are found. They will have to sell it off to the respective government as per the market price! So how do you think decentralized resource centers will exist??

Yes, the point of not admitting any kind of decentralized supplies is: if the community misbehaves in the modern world, you can start by:
1) switching their internet off (not possible after Elon Musk launches his);
2) switching their electricity off, and usually their water supply also depends on electricity;
3) switching their food off (supermarkets depend both on electricity and internet);
4) switching off natural gas pipelines used for heating or for generating electricity in small amounts locally;
5) switching their petrol stations and thus their automobiles/tractors/armed vehicles off.
E.g. look what happened once inhabitants of Crimea decided to leave Ukrainian Confederation (or rather Crimea was brutally annexed and occupied by hostile government, supported by tiny minority of traitorous population, depending on which propaganda you prefer): they had blackouts, water shortages and many threats of those for a few years.

But I meant, what if 1) supplies are really, really small scaled? Not visible from satellites, not easily detectable by large government sensors, and not easy to attack/seize?
Or what if 2) owners of supplies have "roof": lobbyists, lawyers, politicians at the top, all financed through crypto? however 2) is a distant prospect, I admit.

[lauder_larger]

I think bitcoin does not have a say in energy sector that much, I think crypto can maybe get some funds together and create a energy sector investment with some sort of ICO.

Think about it what if there was a new ICO that state they will put solar panels, wind tirbunes, and whatever they can make money out of and with that energy they created they will service as much energy input as the output of the mining facilities? I think it would be both profitable because energy is really easy to produce after the initical investment and it will be definetly socially responsible move as well. That would really improve the role for crypto in fossil fuel deal and definetly will get positive attention.

[byteball]

I think bitcoin does not have a say in energy sector that much, I think crypto can maybe get some funds together and create a energy sector investment with some sort of ICO.

Think about it what if there was a new ICO that state they will put solar panels, wind tirbunes, and whatever they can make money out of and with that energy they created they will service as much energy input as the output of the mining facilities? I think it would be both profitable because energy is really easy to produce after the initical investment and it will be definetly socially responsible move as well. That would really improve the role for crypto in fossil fuel deal and definetly will get positive attention.

Such ICO would be fine, except caveats:
1) We need to trust the team that they will not get our BTC/ETH and pack suitcases, leaving to some exotic island;
2) After they deploy the electricity plants/devices, we need some accountability on how much they spend on maintenance / security / insurance, how much they earn by selling the power and compare that with what they pay us as dividends. To my knowledge, there is no easy way at this time to make it trustless or even semi-trustless.

For comparison, if you buy shares on a stock exchange, you have legal rights; but those can be abused with creative accountancy.

[florianuhlemann]

perhaps cryptocurrencies will help to look at many things differently, because the possibilities of cryptocurrencies are endless

[pumbum]

I see that cryptocurrencies will help to evaluate things exactly as much as they actually cost

[hometester]

I propose to look at the cryptocurrency as a technology that will help the existing world

[byteball]

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/88459/dying-mangroves-on-the-australian-coast

Why do you think those forests died during just one summer?
Cause ground waters are now below their roots. And why is that?
Because of extracting minerals.

So it's either victory of silver and crypto, or switching off the central electricity that can save our planet.

I see that cryptocurrencies will help to evaluate things exactly as much as they actually cost.

That does seem like a real possibility to me. I will try to elaborate on role of Unit of Measurement function of money later,
in connection to saving the planet (or, rather, our sentient race).

[trako]

its validity is not a theory. because countries are currently fighting over minimum 50 years of energy policies. the human likes to consume. Crypto is not a platform for production. I wish oil and similar dependencies are reduced. but this is not possible. For many years, we will be in an order on resources such as coal, boron, oil and natural gas.
it is not easy to give up this system. we will wait. maybe we will start using renewed energy resources after 100 years.