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Author Topic: I've just awarded this guy with 3 merits  (Read 2587 times)
Don Pedro Dinero
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September 03, 2018, 07:54:23 AM
 #41

That's why Newbie and Junior signatures need to be removed completely. They then cannot get paid for this until they become a Member and earn ten merit. Ten merit is not a lot to ask, but it is if you're a bot or the worst of the worst of posters.

I think that would be the best option, and I don’t think it would affect traffic so much. The forum would send the message that you can make money if you make an effort to rank up and get merits. And ten merits is not that much, but a shitposter will never get them. There would be people trying to cheat the system, of course, but the situation would be much better.
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September 03, 2018, 08:11:13 AM
 #42

Awarding merits is a fairly simple way to encourage members to make interesting posts, and to indicate community approval of their opinions and ideas. If you don't encourage senior members, then they will assume that the community doesn't think their ideas are worthwhile, and they will stop suggesting them. It is extremely difficult to get any traction for new ideas, and even harder to preserve continuity. I gave up on my merit source blog, "ask a legendary", and some of the other projects, as there didn't seem to be any interest in them. Fit to Talk is a bit sporadic as well. The blab chatroom has now become a social room for three of us, and it is no longer something to improve Bitcoin Talk.

It would be good if we could agree on some positive group initiative. There are several community action groups, but they all seem to focus on the negative aspects of posters. Those are essential to police the forum, but we need some positive projects alongside them to replace the rubbish posting.

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September 03, 2018, 08:15:03 AM
 #43

Leaving aside the fact that he plagiarized in some posts, there are a lot of good posters that go unnoticed here.

I know a lot of you are saying the Altcoin, Bitcoin & Economics sections are full of spam but if you take a closer look, there are a lot of interesting discussions where good posters try to help people with real issues.
That's the real purpose of a community after all, helping people and improving the knowledge of everyone.

Everything what you see in the supporting forums like Meta, Scam Accusations, Serious discussions etc. are mostly off-topic considering the name of this forum is BITCOIN talk.
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September 03, 2018, 08:25:39 AM
 #44

Awarding merits is a fairly simple way to encourage members to make interesting posts, and to indicate community approval of their opinions and ideas. If you don't encourage senior members, then they will assume that the community doesn't think their ideas are worthwhile, and they will stop suggesting them. It is extremely difficult to get any traction for new ideas, and even harder to preserve continuity. I gave up on my merit source blog, "ask a legendary", and some of the other projects, as there didn't seem to be any interest in them. Fit to Talk is a bit sporadic as well. The blab chatroom has now become a social room for three of us, and it is no longer something to improve Bitcoin Talk.

It would be good if we could agree on some positive group initiative. There are several community action groups, but they all seem to focus on the negative aspects of posters. Those are essential to police the forum, but we need some positive projects alongside them to replace the rubbish posting.

The problem is that here you have to fight a mentality not a laziness. You can say that people will make good posts to earn merit just because they want merit and have some interest in the field and this is the right way to do it, but most of the shitposters are here have different mentality. They don't see advantages or disadvantages of the ICOs, bitcoin or whatever they don't care about such things, they see the system here only as an instrument of making easy money, an system open for abuse and it doesn't matter if this is legal or illegal as soon as nobody will catch them and make profit.

Almost no one cares about the ideology any more everyone is after the profit..

I'll continue busting their asses no matter if they like it or not. I know that it looks like nothing, a drop in the ocean,pointless work,  but someone has to do something, and this is what I can do alone.

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September 03, 2018, 08:31:44 AM
 #45

That's why Newbie and Junior signatures need to be removed completely. They then cannot get paid for this until they become a Member and earn ten merit. Ten merit is not a lot to ask, but it is if you're a bot or the worst of the worst of posters.

I think that would be the best option, and I don’t think it would affect traffic so much. The forum would send the message that you can make money if you make an effort to rank up and get merits. And ten merits is not that much, but a shitposter will never get them. There would be people trying to cheat the system, of course, but the situation would be much better.


It wouldn't effect traffic at all, nor does it effect anybody being able to post here. All it effects is your ability to earn via signatures as a Newbie or Junior and that's not what this forum is about anyway and I don't think they should be able to earn here straight away because that's what leads to the abuse and people trying to post about something they little to nothing about. Newbies and Juniors who come here to earn aren't going to magically just throw in the towel because they can't earn by posting straightaway and they now need ten merit or whatever. They can still collect bounties for a start, or just cough up for a Copper membership... or, you know, just earn the merit naturally by making meritable posts. Ten merit isn't a lot and you could probably achieve that by writing one great post or a few at most. I'm sure other members would be more liberal with their merits if this happened as well. I want to see people making worthwhile posts and I want them to be able to earn here in the process. I just don't want copy and paste bots and lazy farmers writing a hollow sentence over however many dozens of accounts they have.

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September 03, 2018, 08:36:35 AM
 #46

That's why Newbie and Junior signatures need to be removed completely. They then cannot get paid for this until they become a Member and earn ten merit. Ten merit is not a lot to ask, but it is if you're a bot or the worst of the worst of posters.

I think that would be the best option, and I don’t think it would affect traffic so much. The forum would send the message that you can make money if you make an effort to rank up and get merits. And ten merits is not that much, but a shitposter will never get them. There would be people trying to cheat the system, of course, but the situation would be much better.


It wouldn't effect traffic at all, nor does it effect anybody being able to post here. All it effects is your ability to earn via signatures as a Newbie or Junior and that's not what this forum is about anyway and I don't think they should be able to earn here straight away because that's what leads to the abuse and people trying to post about something they little to nothing about. Newbies and Juniors who come here to earn aren't going to magically just throw in the towel because they can't earn by posting straightaway and they now need ten merit or whatever. They can still collect bounties for a start, or just cough up for a Copper membership... or, you know, just earn the merit naturally by making meritable posts. Ten merit isn't a lot and you could probably achieve that by writing one great post or a few at most. I'm sure other members would be more liberal with their merits if this happened as well. I want to see people making worthwhile posts and I want them to be able to earn here in the process. I just don't want copy and paste bots and lazy farmers writing a hollow sentence over however many dozens of accounts they have.
ž

Its actually not that easy to get 10 merit, unless you learn a lot about forum. look at this post for example:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1882656.0

Most used tool for BIOS modding, used by thousands people, 2 merit overall

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September 03, 2018, 10:06:31 AM
Last edit: September 03, 2018, 10:24:35 AM by xtraelv
 #47

I decided to give my merits to persons of lower ranks, from newbie to senior member. I think it's not fair to give merits to high ranked users. I do not say that they do not deserve to, but what for they need it? But low ranked members really need it to raise. Unfortunately, posts I like and found informative and interesting in the most of cases belong exactly to high ranked members. This guy is pretty good, but the case of plagiarism made me to change my opinion about him.

That is narrow thinking.

What about top merited posts and top merited topics ? If posts are merited based on low member ranks so they can rank up then the good posts will never make the lists of "worthwhile reading". I check the list for several reasons - to look for good reading material and to look for merit abusers (who are often scammers or spammers).

Senior members that "don't need" merits to rank up  re-distribute merits from the sMerits that come with the merits. Their merit lists are often good sources of worthwhile reading.

Then you get the smart members on her like Loyce, Piggy, Ddmrddmr, vod etc that use that data to create various tools that analyse trends and suggest improvements.

Full merit transaction history for any user - now with GRAPHS! - LoyceV
Our very own sMerit Network Picture - enhanced with access to all sMerit TXs - ddmrddmr
Swiss army knife Tool to query Merit data online - Full History -piggy
Most recognised on Bitcointalk - Vod

Merits are for good posts and members that make good posts - regardless of rank. Ranking up is only a bonus for those that deserve it. There are plenty of merits floating about to end up with junior members that actually deserve them.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
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September 03, 2018, 10:32:22 AM
 #48

This is really sad - I was going to award some merits to this post -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4996754.0

I checked the second and third paragraphs, and SER reports them as 78% plagiarised. I didn't research any further. At what level should we say "this thread is OK "?

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September 03, 2018, 10:45:12 AM
 #49

Quote from: iasenko
Faith in the humanity lost again.

I thought it was never been found again since the first time it was lost Smiley

Quote from: iasenko
If one newbie post is really good, then it's plagiarism.

Doesn't agree to that. I may have never find yet anyone here, but there is still someone out there that can do special things.
Maybe he/she doesn't want to show off Smiley

Quote from: iasenko
Now the homographs doesn't help them anymore so it's easy to catch them.

Yeah, everybody has the ability to do it now.
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September 03, 2018, 10:45:53 AM
 #50

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2154797;sa=showPosts

I've looked through his post history, and I'm surprised that he has made 80 posts, and not received a single merit until I awarded them. I'm tempted to go through his posts and give him a load more, but I still feel that one should spread merits around rather than dumping them on one person.

The real reason for starting this thread is to highlight the fact that his post had been lost in the swamp, and I think that we should do something to avoid losing these members. Maybe we should have a rising stars list. Smiley


He is a plagiarist

Copy
Bitcoin is the world's first decentralized digital cryptocurrency. The Bitcoin network (BTC) appeared in 2009. This currency is fundamentally different from all previously created electronic currencies and payment systems. It is not tied to any physical assets or" official " Fiat currencies, and the price of the BTC digital coin is regulated exclusively by market demand and supply, i.e. there is what value people invest in it, similar to gold for example.

Bitcoin has a significant similarity with gold — limited stock and total quantity. In the case of bitcoin, its number is strictly limited to 21 000 000. And this figure does not take into account all the lost wallets with BTC tokens lying on them, before this happened often because users carelessly approached the correct storage of the crypto currency on bitcoin wallets, due to the fact that the value of coins at that time was not significant.

 Thus, Bitcoin is a global payment system without emission and inflation, through which it is possible to carry out operations with this currency. Its main difference from traditional payment systems is that the Bitcoin network has no control and processing center — all operations take place exclusively in the network of equal clients without intermediaries (peer to peer network, peer-to-peer network).
(Archive: http://archive.li/nInYR#selection-1791.0-1791.110)


Original
https://newsdealingdali.com/bitcoin/

A plagiarist?  an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author's work as one's own, as by not crediting the original author: THAT IS ACCORDING TO GOOGLE SEARCH.  

Are posting only are the one that is entitled for merits?  How about the replies and quotes that has relevant messages, ideas, suggestions and facts.  These should have been given considerations too I guess.  So far, so many subjects now or posts are almost the same relevant matters and issues, I mean members are having hard time now on what topic or questions to start up to make a thread.  Even if you started one, most members would have no interest biting it.  It is either none sense, off topic, lost topic, not relevant or it has been discussed all over again for so many times in different ways of asking and discussions.  That could be the reason why plagiarism comes up and often being merited or worst just being dumped or deleted.
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September 03, 2018, 10:56:53 AM
Merited by malikusama (2)
 #51

Quote from: @oweljayr
Are posting only are the one that is entitled for merits?  How about the replies and quotes that has relevant messages, ideas, suggestions and facts.  These should have been given considerations too I guess.

That's cute of you, how will you give your ideas if your not going to post it? REPLIES are also counted as posts you know?
MOVE YOUR EYES, NOT JUST THE MOUSE AND KEYBOARD.

Quote
So far, so many subjects now or posts are almost the same relevant matters and issues, I mean members are having hard time now on what topic or questions to start up to make a tread.  Even if you started one, most members would have no interest biting it.  It is either none sense, off topic, lost topic, not relevant or it has been discussed all over again for so many times in different way of asking and discussions.  

They're having a hard time? Well, that's only because they're just on the basic things. All of the INTRODUCTIONS about crypto and bitcoin are already here, so why will they bother do the same things? They're just lazy though. Study the current technology and you'll find your way into creating such Posts that wasn't yet started here.

Quote
That could be the reason why plagiarism comes up

Neh. they're not just using their minds to find anything that is unique.

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September 03, 2018, 11:22:42 AM
Last edit: September 03, 2018, 11:57:09 AM by Jet Cash
 #52

I mean members are having hard time now on what topic or questions to start up to make a thread.

The Bitcoin/crypto world is so vibrant at the moment, that there are numerous topics that could be started. I'll start three now, and I'll post the links here as I do them. I'd be grateful for comments on their suitability as a guide for my posting in the future.

The impact of Schnorr signatures on the beginners board. The idea is to try to get them to perform a bit of research, and to improve their understanding of Bitcoin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5000900.

Should Bitcoin mining be legal in Venezuela? posted in politics.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5000912.0

Will privacy and merchant adoption fuel the next price rise? posted in discussion as an experiment.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5000942.0





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September 03, 2018, 11:31:55 AM
 #53

This is really sad - I was going to award some merits to this post -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4996754.0

I checked the second and third paragraphs, and SER reports them as 78% plagiarised. I didn't research any further. At what level should we say "this thread is OK "?

A lot of posts in Politics & Society are taken from elsewhere. That user has probably used some text jumbling service to avoid detection, and this is becoming a huge problem because a simple google search will usually won't be fruitful. It's a sad state of affairs where users and now going to have to google a post before they merit it. something else really needs to change with the culture here because people are just going to find more and more ways of being sneaky to avoid being caught. One thing I know though is Newbies and Juniors shouldn't be able to get paid for doing this and that's why their signatures need to go because ICO campaigns will keep paying them to do this otherwise.

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September 03, 2018, 12:07:52 PM
 #54

Plagiarism is really frowned upon in the forum, but no doubt some others has gotten away with it, and probably with some merits.

He probably did it just for the merits, since most bounties don't require such long or high quality post.
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September 03, 2018, 09:35:17 PM
 #55

This is really sad - I was going to award some merits to this post -
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4996754.0

I checked the second and third paragraphs, and SER reports them as 78% plagiarised. I didn't research any further. At what level should we say "this thread is OK "?

A lot of posts in Politics & Society are taken from elsewhere. That user has probably used some text jumbling service to avoid detection, and this is becoming a huge problem because a simple google search will usually won't be fruitful. It's a sad state of affairs where users and now going to have to google a post before they merit it. something else really needs to change with the culture here because people are just going to find more and more ways of being sneaky to avoid being caught. One thing I know though is Newbies and Juniors shouldn't be able to get paid for doing this and that's why their signatures need to go because ICO campaigns will keep paying them to do this otherwise.
As soon as text spinning becomes a well-known tool for spammers, we'll lose the battle... spambots will take over and we can't report them in the Plagiarism topic to ban them, we can only report the post as low-quality (because text spinners are not perfect yet, so there will be some words and expressions that are just not right in that specific context...) and you can't ban a member because of the low-quality posts, can you?

And this is because it's still possible for low ranked members to earn here without the need for quality posts... as long as they can earn, why would they stop it? Homograph problem has been solved? No problem, they can move on... As long as it worth them to move on and to find another solution to spam... As long as they got paid for it... As long as they have the possibility to join into bounty campaigns... As long as they have signature...

We're already mentioned not to let jr.s to wear signatures... in vain... I know that this forum is a super-complicated ecosystem and every small change has a lot of effects on other things forumwide... but if you just don't play, you can't win... if we win, the forum will be a happy place again, if we lose, we will be at least wiser... and there will always be a next chance to improve the forum with something, to just eliminate this spamfest we have now...
I'm really looking forward to have a kind of solution asap...

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September 04, 2018, 02:17:47 AM
 #56

lol, I don't think so.
I don't know there are rules related to low-quality threads as one of violations on forum rules, at least with all current rules of the forum as I known.
Furthermore, let's think of it neutrally, sometimes all of us can fall into wrong directions, fall into off-topic ideas. So, it's really strange to ban someone due to making off-topic threads. It is likely extremely strict criteria, in my point of view. Applying such criteria might lead to banning massive bans on forum users, including non-spammers.
In contrast, I agree with you that most of spammers fall into off-topic discussions with their shit-shows.
we can only report the post as low-quality (because text spinners are not perfect yet, so there will be some words and expressions that are just not right in that specific context...) and you can't ban a member because of the low-quality posts, can you?
Restricting users at specific ranks and above can enable to wear signature, increasing required merits to rank up, especially for Junior member and Member ranks, might have considerable effects. The approach has been disccussed somewhere in the forum over months, as I known.
As I suggested in my other threads, the forum should have new rank requirements, which specifically focus on lower-ranked members (because those sort of users are the most annoying ones in the forum, have dominant contribution to spamming endemic):
- 10 Merits to rank up to Junior Member.
- 50 Merits to rank up to Member.
I strongly believe that if it implemented, big difference to come for sure.
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As long as they have signature...

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September 04, 2018, 03:52:36 AM
 #57

I guess you got your lesson right Jet Cash? Maybe you can make a solution to it? Like making a class (thread) or adding some talks in one of your thread about how to look up into members if they are legit or not? If their posts are legit or not? Your thread is a good place to give people knowledge about this i guess.

Or did you add it already before this happen? I rarely come to your thread tho, pardon me.

@tranthidung
Require merit/s to be Junior Member is already suggested and compiled in one of Hillariousandco's thread and Theymos even did a reply to it, and the comment was " OK and some might need an adjustment". That is all that we know up till now.
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September 04, 2018, 08:39:37 AM
 #58

The merit requirements seem to be well thought out, and I don't think that there should be a requirement to rank up to junior. When i joined the forum, I asked a lot of questions that I now realise were stupid. Fortunately the members here were very patient with me, and I learnt a lot. I don't think that I deserved to reecive any merit during that period, but moving up to junior member was an encouragement.

I believe that restricting signatures to members and above would be far more productive. The activity and merit requirements would discourage those that have joined to exploit the forum, and it would also provide the mods with with an impression of the character of the new member.

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September 04, 2018, 09:36:38 AM
 #59

The merit requirements seem to be well thought out, and I don't think that there should be a requirement to rank up to junior. When i joined the forum, I asked a lot of questions that I now realise were stupid. Fortunately the members here were very patient with me, and I learnt a lot. I don't think that I deserved to reecive any merit during that period, but moving up to junior member was an encouragement.

But what encouragement is it if you get it for largely doing nothing? It's like getting a trophy for merely participating. You just need to make 30 posts over three periods and bots can and are doing this. Many are even getting paid to bot and this is mostly why this is needed. What would truly be encouragement though would be them getting the one merit (or whatever the requirement is) to move up the rank. That really would feel like an achievement and like you have earned something here. We have merit requirements for every other rank so why not Junior as well? Doesn't make any sense to me to not have it. It makes even more sense because it's one thing that stops the worst of the worst and bots from getting paid and Campaigns can't be trusted to police this themselves.

I believe that restricting signatures to members and above would be far more productive. The activity and merit requirements would discourage those that have joined to exploit the forum, and it would also provide the mods with with an impression of the character of the new member.

Well this is the more important issue and I would be fine with no merit requirement for Juniors if their signatures were removed as that's mostly the crux of the issue here, but ideally it would be both. I think nobody should be able to have a signature until Member and you still need at least one merit to become a Junior (bots can still be nuked then), but if I had to settle for their signatures being removed then I would.

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September 04, 2018, 04:27:41 PM
 #60

I love how the internet is mainly used for flaming at people that played a game better than oneself, and here we are on bitcointalk and discuss how some users plagiarise and put them on the wall of shame like they were cheating in their phd dissertation  Grin

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