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Author Topic: The Dangerous State of Bitcoin (.com)  (Read 8449 times)
JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:06:35 AM
 #41

The day when we deregulate enough to let Goldman Sachs found an electric utilities subsidiary that builds generators that run off the burning corpses of the poor is the day we are all truly free.

There is no god but Capitalism and Mises is his prophet
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JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:08:06 AM
 #42

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck
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October 28, 2011, 02:08:46 AM
 #43

The day when we deregulate enough to let Goldman Sachs found an electric utilities subsidiary that builds generators that run off the burning corpses of the poor is the day we are all truly free.

There is no god but Capitalism and Mises is his prophet
Corpses are too expensive. The government can't print enough food stamps to feed our proletariat-corpse generator. Maybe if we write Obama another check we can get the funding we need.
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October 28, 2011, 02:11:23 AM
 #44

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Still waiting on this magical 500% markup company.  I would like to invest. 

Also why would govt pay subsidies to keep the markup "only" at 500%.  Why not demand say 100% markup or simply nationalize the company.  Alternatively why not allow competitors and let market forces drive energy prices down.

Then again I already know this magical company doesn't exist.
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October 28, 2011, 02:11:34 AM
 #45

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

I'm about to cry of laughter. This is glorious. No, there's just no way the prices for mining energy could go up due to demand and a need to upgrade the refining process. It's just greed. Haha. Honestly, I can't imagine how long this can go on.
JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:15:13 AM
 #46

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Still waiting on this magical 500% markup company.  I would like to invest. 

Also why would govt pay subsidies to keep the markup "only" at 500%.  Why not demand say 100% markup or simply nationalize the company.  Alternatively why not allow competitors and let market forces drive energy prices down.

Then again I already know this magical company doesn't exist.

We should nationalize the fuck out of a lot of critical industries - look what private, laissez-faire finance sectors got us
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Gerald Davis


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October 28, 2011, 02:18:10 AM
 #47

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Still waiting on this magical 500% markup company.  I would like to invest.  

Also why would govt pay subsidies to keep the markup "only" at 500%.  Why not demand say 100% markup or simply nationalize the company.  Alternatively why not allow competitors and let market forces drive energy prices down.

Then again I already know this magical company doesn't exist.

We should nationalize the fuck out of a lot of critical industries - look what private, laissez-faire finance sectors got us

Most nationalized companies tend to have higher prices as they are a complete monopoly with little interest/reason in driving down cost. ... what is the point?  Increased marketshare or profits?  Er wait.

Still waiting for the name of this 500% company ... unless you just want to save us some time and admit it doesn't exist.
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October 28, 2011, 02:21:51 AM
 #48

I want to see one coercive monopoly that isn't receiving a major helping hand from the government. Once I see that, I'll take this argument seriously.
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October 28, 2011, 02:25:17 AM
 #49

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'


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October 28, 2011, 02:27:30 AM
 #50

Most nationalized companies tend to have higher prices as they are a complete monopoly with little interest in driving down cost ... what is the point.

Still waiting for the name of this 500% company ... unless you just want to admit it doesn't exist.

I agree with most of your points but there are lots of 500% companies.

Most of them are luxury/optional catarogies and can do 500% because of creative designs or marketing.  Your main points would still be valid as most of these items are OPTIONAL purchases.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-biggest-price-markups.php


I.Goldstein
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October 28, 2011, 02:29:16 AM
 #51

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'

Enron is rigidly provisioned natural gas lines by the government. It was a highest-bidder monopoly from the start. No wonder Enron did what it did. In addition, "privatization" does not equal competitive and free. It usually means another layer of government-provisioned bureaucracy filled with crony capitalists.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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October 28, 2011, 02:31:16 AM
 #52

Most nationalized companies tend to have higher prices as they are a complete monopoly with little interest in driving down cost ... what is the point.

Still waiting for the name of this 500% company ... unless you just want to admit it doesn't exist.

I agree with most of your points but there are lots of 500% companies.

Most of them are luxury/optional catarogies and can do 500% because of creative designs or marketing.  Your main points would still be valid as most of these items are OPTIONAL purchases.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-biggest-price-markups.php


Of course those examples exclude advertising, customer support, discounting, distribution, retail markup, etc.
I still want to see this company where cost of production is x and gross revenue is 5x.  

As an example the first product in that list was cosmetics.  One of the largest cosmetics companies is Este Lauder.  Their 2011 net profit margin is 8%.  So if the company operated for free (no profit to shareholders or for expansion) retail prices would be ~8% lower.   
JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:32:25 AM
 #53

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'



People seem to forget that most investors don't care about company reputation or anything and are only investing for the quickest, biggest buck, and are completely willing to let rolling brownouts happen all over the southern US if it means they get to sneak away with another single dollar.
I.Goldstein
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October 28, 2011, 02:33:39 AM
 #54

Also, "private" is another word for unremorseful corruption of a public utility. Just subcontracting work doesn't make something competitive like a true private-sector work force. It's just people abusing the government's inefficiency to their own benefit.

JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:34:07 AM
 #55

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'

Enron is rigidly provisioned natural gas lines by the government. It was a highest-bidder monopoly from the start. No wonder Enron did what it did. In addition, "privatization" does not equal competitive and free. It usually means another layer of government-provisioned bureaucracy filled with crony capitalists.

Oh no! Another piece of evidence that doesn't agree with my unfounded faith in companies over the government! Better deny it completely and shout "free market" three times fast!
JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:35:37 AM
 #56

Also, "private" is another word for unremorseful corruption of a public utility. Just subcontracting work doesn't make something competitive like a true private-sector work force. It's just people abusing the government's inefficiency to their own benefit.


How do you constantly write these little inconsistent posts and not check them before you hit the post button?
I.Goldstein
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October 28, 2011, 02:35:50 AM
 #57

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'



People seem to forget that most investors don't care about company reputation or anything and are only investing for the quickest, biggest buck, and are completely willing to let rolling brownouts happen all over the southern US if it means they get to sneak away with another single dollar.

Investors won't be getting long-term returns that way. The company would have to be a failure from its inception to have a board of shareholders that conniving. It sounds a lot like Solyndra.

Of course investors aren't going to give a damn about what happens with a government-provisioned company or utility. They'll get paid fucking anyway.
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October 28, 2011, 02:36:22 AM
 #58

Also, "private" is another word for unremorseful corruption of a public utility. Just subcontracting work doesn't make something competitive like a true private-sector work force. It's just people abusing the government's inefficiency to their own benefit.


How do you constantly write these little inconsistent posts and not check them before you hit the post button?

My post is fine and consistent.
I.Goldstein
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October 28, 2011, 02:37:05 AM
 #59

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'

Enron is rigidly provisioned natural gas lines by the government. It was a highest-bidder monopoly from the start. No wonder Enron did what it did. In addition, "privatization" does not equal competitive and free. It usually means another layer of government-provisioned bureaucracy filled with crony capitalists.

Oh no! Another piece of evidence that doesn't agree with my unfounded faith in companies over the government! Better deny it completely and shout "free market" three times fast!

I haven't denied the evidence. I agree with the facts. It's just they point to another problem.
JeffK
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October 28, 2011, 02:38:47 AM
 #60

You'd be amazed how wrong you are when it's something everyone needs and there's only one supplier and they're charging a 500% mark-up for no obvious reason other than "more money for us; fuck you".

1) How do you know they are making 500% markup?
2) If you know they have 500% markup why don't you buy stock
3) It would not be possible to sustain 500% markup without the ACTIVE SUPPORT of the government (i.e. the govt creating and enforcing a prohibition on competitors).

Likely this 500% markup is something in your mind only.

You're wasting your time. Energy companies receive countless government subsidies. The argument is now bunk. If he can't accept our contentions after this fact, it's hopeless.

The subsidies are to keep them from marking up the prices more, you clueless fuck

Exactly right.  I pay a very reasonable rate for my power, and the linemen, management, commissioners and everyone else involved in getting that power to me make a good living wage largely because there is not a parasitic 'private investor' class to leach off of us users.

As soon as thing were privatized in CA where I lived at the time, Enron gouged the shit out of us customers for natural gas claiming 'market conditions'.  And when the transmission lines were privatized in the mid-west, we had the biggest power outage ever IIRC because the 'investors' were pocketing the money which should have gone into maintenance.

Some wise person who's name I've forgotten once made the statement "When you hear the word 'privatization', you better put your hand on your wallet.'



People seem to forget that most investors don't care about company reputation or anything and are only investing for the quickest, biggest buck, and are completely willing to let rolling brownouts happen all over the southern US if it means they get to sneak away with another single dollar.

Investors won't be getting long-term returns that way. The company would have to be a failure from its inception to have a board of shareholders that conniving. It sounds a lot like Solyndra.

Of course investors aren't going to give a damn about what happens with a government-provisioned company or utility. They'll get paid fucking anyway.

Investors have never given a single fuck about long-term investments in this country - everything is about next quarter; and yes, it generally does lead to company failure, but not before all the "important people" get their cut of money before the company tanks
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