Free computers powered by Bitcoin.

[Rassah]

That would be a very very costly heater with 4 GPUs!

If you don't have to pay for electricity, a 4 GPU heater can still bring in $50 to $100 a month at current prices. People who need a heater will be using that electricity either way. Question is how long are you willing to wait for your heater to pay itself off, if there are enough cold months ahead to do it in, and whether Bitcoin will maintain it's level and not drop further.

[worldinacoin]

Estimate 1 BTC a day for 4 GPU using 5850 might be possible and the prices of 5850 are quite cheap nowadays.

[elggawf]

Estimate 1 BTC a day for 4 GPU using 5850 might be possible and the prices of 5850 are quite cheap nowadays.

So ~$33/month at current prices?

[JeffK]

*~*~*~*~ Atlas's Plan to Exploit the Impoverished Thread for 10/29 ~*~*~*~*

[DeathAndTaxes]

How would they be exploited if using it for heating?

A GPU is a perfect resistance heating device.  100% of energy "used" is converted to heat.

The usefulness of this aside it is impossible for anyone using such a device to be exploited.

At worst case scenario the consumer would be ahead by the difference is price of subsidized GPU heater vs "conventional heater".  At best they would get a monthly rebate on the amount of "heat" they used further lowering cost.

[JeffK]

How would they be exploited if using it for heating?

You are giving them a computing device that is partially crippled and expensive to run, at very little benefit to the receiver of the computer.

A GPU is a perfect resistance heating device.  100% of energy "used" is converted to heat.

This is not how physics works, and watt for watt computers are pretty shitty heaters.

The usefulness of this aside it is impossible for anyone using such a device to be exploited.

At worst case scenario the consumer would be ahead by the difference is price of subsidized GPU heater vs "conventional heater".  At best they would get a monthly rebate on the amount of "heat" they used further lowering cost.

It might work if you cut them a check from Bitcoin "profits" to subsidize their bill, but then that would cut into profits so manufacturers wouldn't want to build and distribute the computers in the first place.

[Rassah]

Estimate 1 BTC a day for 4 GPU using 5850 might be possible and the prices of 5850 are quite cheap nowadays.

So ~$33/month at current prices?

$3.5 * 30 = $105. Math FAIL

[DeathAndTaxes]

A GPU is a perfect resistance heating device.  100% of energy "used" is converted to heat.

This is not how physics works, and watt for watt computers are pretty shitty heaters.

That is exactly how physics works.  Law of conservation of energy?  The GPU is doing no other work (in physics sense) thus 100 kWh of electricity -> 100 kWh of heat.

A GPU is a 100% efficient converter to electricity into heat just as any other resistance load is (electric oven, stove-top, space heater, electric blanket, soldering iron, etc).

So the consumer can never "lose".
Either
a) they are given a subsidized/free heater and same electrical costs.
b) they are sold a GPU heater for similar costs to conventional heat and given a "rebate" on electrical usage.
c) they simply don't buy the GPU heater because it isn't cheaper.

GPU produce more "value" than a resistance heater per unit of energy
Resistance heater per 1 kWh of electricity = 1 kWh heat + nothing.
GPU heater per 1 kWh of electricity = 1 kWh heat + x bitcoins.

That value could be shared equitably or all the excess value taken by the manufacturer but either way it can't be WORSE than using a conventional space heater.

[elggawf]

$3.5 * 30 = $105. Math FAIL

Yeah, what the fuck was I thinking.

OK, let's call it $33/month at tomorrow's prices. Tee hee.

[Rassah]

$3.5 * 30 = $105. Math FAIL

Yeah, what the fuck was I thinking.

OK, let's call it $33/month at tomorrow's prices. Tee hee.

That I'll take.

[Rarity]

a) they are given a subsidized/free heater and same electrical costs.

A space heater costs $12.  The GPU isn't cheaper.

[repentance]

I use a 2000 watt heater in winter.  It has 1250 watt and 750 watt settings, but you're not realistically going to be running it at anything other than full power when the weather's really cold.

What would be involved in building a "heater" that's really a dedicated miner which is capable of putting out 2000 watts and what would it cost to build and supply?  How would you incorporate a thermostat (people tend to turn heaters without thermostats on and off a lot, which you don't want if you want it to be mining as often as possible)?

[Rassah]

I use a 2000 watt heater in winter.  It has 1250 watt and 750 watt settings, but you're not realistically going to be running it at anything other than full power when the weather's really cold.

What would be involved in building a "heater" that's really a dedicated miner which is capable of putting out 2000 watts and what would it cost to build and supply?  How would you incorporate a thermostat (people tend to turn heaters without thermostats on and off a lot, which you don't want if you want it to be mining as often as possible)?

I think a 2000 watt heater would cost close to $1,200 in hardware alone, and would be kind of noisy due to the fans. Regarding thermostats, it would be fairly easy to assign keyboard keys to turn separate miner GPUs on and off, and wire those keys to external case mounted switches. A software option with an actual thermostat would be harder, but still doable. I think the main problem is the initial cost. A 2000 watt rig would be able to pump out about 1.5BTC a day, or $150 a month ±price fluctuation ±difficulty changes. That's way too risky of a return on initial $1,200 investment, especially if you sell it for $20 to start and share mining profits.

[Elwar]

Or just write a kick ass computer program that people want to have running 24/7 that will mine Bitcoins when not in use.

[the founder]

Or just write a kick ass computer program that people want to have running 24/7 that will mine Bitcoins when not in use.

+1

You could even do that webbased ....  instead of advertising just have it do javascript mining.   Just make sure everything is disclosed properly in the TOS ..  I think people might accept it if the application was good enough.

put it this way,  instead of seeing Google Adsense all over the freaking internet and full page banner ads all over the place,  if it just mined in the background it might be less intrusive,   as long as it's not completely crashing people's machines and using 101% of their resources.. if capped at 40% or so it might make sense.

[Rassah]

Or just write a kick ass computer program that people want to have running 24/7 that will mine Bitcoins when not in use.

+1

You could even do that webbased ....  instead of advertising just have it do javascript mining.   Just make sure everything is disclosed properly in the TOS ..  I think people might accept it if the application was good enough.

put it this way,  instead of seeing Google Adsense all over the freaking internet and full page banner ads all over the place,  if it just mined in the background it might be less intrusive,   as long as it's not completely crashing people's machines and using 101% of their resources.. if capped at 40% or so it might make sense.

That's still essentially stealing their electricity money, and even making them pay more for the electricity than you get back in bitcoin.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Or just write a kick ass computer program that people want to have running 24/7 that will mine Bitcoins when not in use.

+1

You could even do that webbased ....  instead of advertising just have it do javascript mining.   Just make sure everything is disclosed properly in the TOS ..  I think people might accept it if the application was good enough.

put it this way,  instead of seeing Google Adsense all over the freaking internet and full page banner ads all over the place,  if it just mined in the background it might be less intrusive,   as long as it's not completely crashing people's machines and using 101% of their resources.. if capped at 40% or so it might make sense.

That's still essentially stealing their electricity money, and even making them pay more for the electricity than you get back in bitcoin.

Most CPU sold in the future will have graphic core built in (APU).   AMD APU already have decent performance per watt and Intel likely do to if they ever would release OpenCL drivers.  In AMD case OpenCL support is now in the standard driver so it would be possible for mainstream users to have decent hashing performance without even doing anything other than owning a mainstream computer.

It could be used malicously but it also could be used as an alternative to advertising.

Imagine a game like farmville where you get extra "Coins" hourly based on your hashing rate.  Imagine a service like hulu which allows you to opt in to reduced or no commercials based on your hashing power.  For user's who's computer aren't powerful enough for free realtime commercial free viewing they it could allow them to bank credits by hashing when they pause or offering to let them hash for 30 minutes after end of the movie (to have credits for next movie).


Slightly different concept would be subscription based services (think online games like WOW, backup services, antivirus, etc).  You can either pay the monthly fee OR you let the system hash when you aren't using the computer for either reduced cost or free service. 

[the founder]

Or just write a kick ass computer program that people want to have running 24/7 that will mine Bitcoins when not in use.

+1

You could even do that webbased ....  instead of advertising just have it do javascript mining.   Just make sure everything is disclosed properly in the TOS ..  I think people might accept it if the application was good enough.

put it this way,  instead of seeing Google Adsense all over the freaking internet and full page banner ads all over the place,  if it just mined in the background it might be less intrusive,   as long as it's not completely crashing people's machines and using 101% of their resources.. if capped at 40% or so it might make sense.

That's still essentially stealing their electricity money, and even making them pay more for the electricity than you get back in bitcoin.

Maybe,  at today's prices .. but that's why I noted to disclaim that in the TOS and specifically state what is happening,  that way people can decide if the app is worth it.

Look if the app is literally something highly in demand,  let's say it's a program is something similar to Siri for the iphone but 1000x more intelligent...  to the point where you can't tell if it's a human or a computer... then many people might just feel it's worth it... during her "downtime" she'll mine....  when she's awake again IE: doing tasks such as populating emails for you or filling out spreadsheets .. she's not mining.

If presented with that option would you take it?   Even if you don't I suspect that others would.

[Rassah]

Someone indistinguishable from a human, whom you can talk to, for money... Why does the number 1-900 come to mind?

[the founder]

Someone indistinguishable from a human, whom you can talk to, for money... Why does the number 1-900 come to mind?

LOL!!!