Satis Group-Bitcoin might reach 96K by 2023

[Febo]

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero.  It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move.  With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future.  It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

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[cellard]

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero.  It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move.  With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future.  It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

[figmentofmyass]

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

who are "they?" monero obfuscates the origin of funds at the protocol level. how can anyone "demand" proof that doesn't exist? privacy doesn't equate to illegality. (not yet anyway)

it's good to think through the possibilities, but refusing to trade XMR because you're scared of the government? that's crazy. there's nothing illegal about XMR. (unless you're in one of the few countries where crypto is straight up banned)

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

are there any reports out there of this actually happening?

[talkbitcoin]

...
Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

there is no "even if"! the coin works. you send coins and the other party receives them, the obfuscation in the middle doesn't mean the other party doesn't receive the coins and the blockchain doesn't know about it. it just is impossible to back de-anonymize it.

your arguments are about something entirely different and it has nothing to do with the transactions and whether or not you can prove it is yours! you are arguing that if the government bans usage of XMR you will face problems. which is true about anything else!

and none of it has anything to do with its price in my opinion and the ridiculous speculation that that other user made

[Febo]

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero.  It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move.  With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future.  It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

What do you mean even. Only when you own private keys of Bitcoin wallet or Monero wallet you can prove that founds there are or were yours. IF you think you will show a Bitcoin transaction to tax office and taht wil be fine you are wrong. You will need to be able to prove them that is your wallet. So make sure to keep all wallets private keys.

Many government of politicians tried to ban Bitcoin but they failed at doing so. Many governments or politicians will try to ban Monere but they will fail at doing so. You simply cant ban math. If some government somehow manage to ban Pythagorean theorem, that dont mean that a²+b²=c² will stopped be true. 

[reactorjuno]

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero.  It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move.  With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future.  It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

What do you mean even. Only when you own private keys of Bitcoin wallet or Monero wallet you can prove that founds there are or were yours. IF you think you will show a Bitcoin transaction to tax office and taht wil be fine you are wrong. You will need to be able to prove them that is your wallet. So make sure to keep all wallets private keys.

Many government of politicians tried to ban Bitcoin but they failed at doing so. Many governments or politicians will try to ban Monere but they will fail at doing so. You simply cant ban math. If some government somehow manage to ban Pythagorean theorem, that dont mean that a²+b²=c² will stopped be true.  

Come on now obviously politicians can not technically stop Bitcoin or Monero from existing, but if they declare it illegal then what are you going to do? If banks are officially forbidden to receive any transaction from "fishy" cryptocurrency websites then you are screwed. Oh I guess you can still keep your cryptos and never convert them to fiat currencies, so you will use them to buy flight tickets or a house, but what if airlines companies or real estate are officially forbidden to receive any payment not made in fiat?
Then Bitcoin or Monero will obviously not be dead per se, but politicians can make it difficult enough so that the market collapses. I obviously don't think the scenario I described is likely, but it is still within the realm of possibilities.  

[Febo]

in the future monero will be #2 coin, eventually 1 XMR = 1 BTC

Extremely delusional. Monero may pump a lot in the future, but it will never get anywhere near BTC.

The big problem with trading Monero (and I have been tempted to do so) is that once you are rich and you want to buy a nice house with your gains, there will be a big question mark in your trading history, thanks to Monero's obfuscated blockchain. So if they demand proof of origin of funds, unless you never leave your exchange, you may end up in problems.

Just imagine that you buy Monero in Binance or some other exchange, you put it into your Monero wallet, wait some months, Monero goes x100 and you want to sell for BTC. You send your XMR into Binance again to sell, and within this move is the problem. If they ask you to see this transaction, how do you do it? you can't show them in the blockchain, and believe me they are and will get increasingly anal about things. They will want every detail, and they will look for gaps within your trading history to confiscate your money, and then you are fucked and you no longer can buy your dream house, and maybe even end up with a big fee. So yeah, before you do any of this, at least be sure the jurisdiction in which you do it will not screw you up bigly.

You can prove any transaction you make with viewkey. You seems to miss a bit technical knowledge of Monero.  It also have view key that bitcoin dont. So for taxation purposes you can easily prove all your transactions whenever you want. But only you can prove that no one else can.

For exchanges is totally simple. They care only about blacklisted wallets. So if someone hacks Bitstamp and steal 1000 bitcoins no other exchange will take those bitcoins, since they will all track on which wallets they move.  With monero exchanges dont have this problem. Well the wallets that hacked Monero are moved are ofcourse blacklisted but after next move track is lost. Reason why exchanges love monero is called fungibility.

Great post. Which actually means, no matter how great Monero is now, it could be worth zero $ in the future, for the very reasons you mentioned (or close to zero, you get the point...).

Monero can be definitely worth 0 in the future.  It is an experiment. If you decide to buy some dont spend more than you are comfortable to lose.

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

What do you mean even. Only when you own private keys of Bitcoin wallet or Monero wallet you can prove that founds there are or were yours. IF you think you will show a Bitcoin transaction to tax office and taht wil be fine you are wrong. You will need to be able to prove them that is your wallet. So make sure to keep all wallets private keys.

Many government of politicians tried to ban Bitcoin but they failed at doing so. Many governments or politicians will try to ban Monere but they will fail at doing so. You simply cant ban math. If some government somehow manage to ban Pythagorean theorem, that dont mean that a²+b²=c² will stopped be true.  

Come on now obviously politicians can not technically stop Bitcoin or Monero from existing, but if they declare it illegal then what are you going to do? If banks are officially forbidden to receive any transaction from "fishy" cryptocurrency websites then you are screwed. Oh I guess you can still keep your cryptos and never convert them to fiat currencies, so you will use them to buy flight tickets or a house, but what if airlines companies or real estate are officially forbidden to receive any payment not made in fiat?
Then Bitcoin or Monero will obviously not be dead per se, but politicians can make it difficult enough so that the market collapses. I obviously don't think the scenario I described is likely, but it is still within the realm of possibilities.  

Crypto currencies were made for us to be used and transact among each other. Atomic swaps and decentralized exchanges will help us exchange cryptocurencies.  They were not made for banks or centralized exchanges. Any ban in any country of any fairly launched PoW concurrency will not last long since there is no legal reason for that. As I said. Yes there will be tries of baning that will fail on long run. This try of ban will be regionally limited ( Countries cant even agree on baning Nuclear weapons, altho they all know Nuclear weapons can end humanity on Earth) and at least my speculation is that it will boost price of Monero on way higher level as it is now because of all the media exposure.   
Most countries will have smart enough people to find out on time that they need untraceable crypto currency for their own use. I can not imagine witness protection program that is run on Bitcoin. Those whiteness will not be that protected as soon they will get first payment

[hatshepsut93]

Even if you could technically show a transaction and prove that the funds belong to you, the coin with the highest chances of getting banned from most governments thus never being able to buy a proper house and other actual tangible things with your gains is Monero.

With Bitcoin the chances are lower, it's too big, there will always be favorable countries to it, I see switzerland being one. But Monero may be pushed by all major governments into some niche currency nobody uses.

People will find ways to launder their Monero's if it will be necessary. A worldwide ban would definitely hurt it's adoption and price, but people will still be using it. When people talk about illegal transactions, they immediately think of guns and drugs, but the biggest illegal use-case is shadow economy, people will use privacy coins instead of cash for selling items, providing services, receiving black salary, so going through the trouble of laundering it might be still worth it if it means less taxes.

[magneto]

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

Look. All of these things are purely speculative with no proof or reasoning.

There are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to the long term aspect of these claims, and once new speculative data comes out from others, people quickly forget about previous ones - even though it might seem like some sort of major piece of news right now.

I'd say that it's probably a bit unlikely, but still possible.

$96k is not something that would surprise me if it happened, but I think that it'll probably take more than just half a decade for it to occur, especially when 2023 would most likely be near the tail end if not the end of the next bull market which will likely start in 2020-2021 due to the halving. At least it's not completely unreasonable like the other predictions made by media personalities like Tom Lee, or John McAfee.

[upsidedown75]

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

I really hate people who think they can even think what bitcoin can be couple months from now let alone 2023. There is not a single human who can even come close without being lucky. If it reaches those levels they are just purely lucky and this is not a legit fact based guess.

Can it be 96 thousand dollars when we hit 2023 ? Yes it can, it is one of the possibilities but it is definitely not a sure thing like they are proposing. I think the main point should be their other coin thoughts, they believe that monero will be 18 thousand dollars which is three times the price of bitcoin right now. I think monero has an upside but that is just dreaming.

[Febo]

According to Satis Group(google it,if you don't know anything about them) Bitcoin price will reach 96K USD by the end of 2023 and 144K USD by the end of the next decade(around 2030).The second most valuable coin will be Monero with a 18K USD price.Coins like ethereum and litecoin are doomed to fail in the long run,according to the market analysts.
Well,I don't trust such predictions,but this is the speculation sub-forum and we always discuss those type of "market analysis" here.Any thoughts about this?

I really hate people who think they can even think what bitcoin can be couple months from now let alone 2023. There is not a single human who can even come close without being lucky. If it reaches those levels they are just purely lucky and this is not a legit fact based guess.

Can it be 96 thousand dollars when we hit 2023 ? Yes it can, it is one of the possibilities but it is definitely not a sure thing like they are proposing. I think the main point should be their other coin thoughts, they believe that monero will be 18 thousand dollars which is three times the price of bitcoin right now. I think monero has an upside but that is just dreaming.

They are posting an average price. On 7th January Bitcoin was $17500. Satis would not put $17500 Bitcoin price for 2018 but average price that was on my not calculated opinion something around $8000. We all are way to used to talk about ATH prices.