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Author Topic: Ethereum Reduces Block Reward | ETH GPU Mining Will No Longer Be Profitable  (Read 2140 times)
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September 11, 2018, 03:25:43 PM
 #41

The people who complain about this, simply don't get it.   Vosk has a channel about mining, so obviously he has to cover things from a miner's point of view.  The miner's point of view is that they want to make money, and as much as possible.  The ETH developers meanwhile are trying to deliver a stable product.  Ethereum is very complex and its ridiculous for the dev team to sit there and work on forking an algo for what? to stop bitmain's "asic" that really doesn't perform that well but is efficient?  This reminds me of the SIA social media guy that finally quit and listed his reasoning.  Granted those guys have a lot of problems with Obelisk, etc, but regardless one of his biggest gripes was that 90% of the people posting could have cared less about SIA getting a working product or improving it.  All they cared about was ROI, making money/

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nsummy
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September 11, 2018, 04:12:25 PM
 #42

such a doom and gloom post.

profits will diminish.

the difficulty bomb has begun to take effect, so you can expect at least 10% faster blocks (2 second average) after fork.

plus due to the diminished block reward some farms hanging in the balance will be closing shop and selling their wares.

there are plenty of markets that will still be profitable with gpu's and E3's.

we're all on borrowed time anyways casper's POS was assumed implemented in full this time last year..

there is always classic for the holdouts if they care to adjust their philosophy to match where the money flows.

the block halving comment was interesting but its generally in 2-3 year intervals.. and dictated from genesis block. this is a bit more contreversial as the devs have some back and forth to decide how to move forward.

I like the decision, and I mine. its inportant not have have all your eggs in one basket as well as understanding perspective of the big picture.

Looking at the "Average Block Time" chart over at etherscan shows that the difficulty bomb hasn't started yet. Our average block times are still around 14-15 seconds unlike 30 seconds last Oct-Nov.

So this issuance wont be like last year where we get reduced rewards but faster block times, it will basically cut profits by 33%.

I also glanced over the hashrate chart and it seems like it's going down a little, I think last June we had this difficulty. However it could all still be variance.

BCI team implements ProgPow in a few weeks
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2616641.0

Its not variance , GPU miners are leaving, monero is same profit as ETH and they are forking asics and fpgas,

bitcoin Interest just did what the eth devs said could not be done int three months in two weeks :
BCI team did all this -
- Implemented a working stable Miner for AMD and Nividia for ProgPOW,
- built their own pool and solo stratum implementation
- Implemented ProgPOW on their block-chain and even rolled it back to block one to reduce the chain size and then re-synched all the old coins to the new chain in the first 850 blocks
-Deployed from testnet to production with new wallets and builds for the pool implementation, miners and stratum implemenation.

All this in a few weeks lol  , I though the ethereum devs were supposed to be the best in the business, youre telling they could not even have tweaked the ethhash algo to fork asics let alone
implemented ProgPow if a small team of 3-4 with the help of the OhGod team could do all this in a few weeks ? GTFO.

This is why the Ethereum is dropping in value , thier dev teams are not innovating anymore , or at least pushing the evelope i.e  getting things done
I'm a dev myself , I know there are delays and risks and such to update and upgrading code and co-dependent systems but its like they are sleep-walking right now, they are definatly not as hungry as they used to be
they sounded more like Finacial guys than developers in thier meetings more interested in monetary policy  that playing with new code and concepts like ProgPOW.

personally my 8GH is off eth and split between BCI and XMR,  XMR basically after power costs has been identical in profits to Eth , for a while now

Wake me up when BCI solves any sort of problems or brings new ideas to the cryptospace.  Its a shitcoin for staking that happens to use a new algo.  Of course the devs can do all of this work.  Its a money grab for them. 

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September 11, 2018, 07:46:41 PM
 #43

mybe ETH will recover it's value during the year. It's a shame, what they decided to do.

yeah. mining farm cannot pay electric bill..

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September 11, 2018, 08:29:59 PM
 #44

Wake me up when BCI solves any sort of problems or brings new ideas to the cryptospace.

Well it's up 22% right now so I guess it's possible they did something right.
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September 11, 2018, 09:06:19 PM
 #45

Wake me up when BCI solves any sort of problems or brings new ideas to the cryptospace.  Its a shitcoin for staking that happens to use a new algo.  Of course the devs can do all of this work.  Its a money grab for them.  

So true, copying others is easy, now implementing something for the future of crypto like eth devs did is something else.

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September 12, 2018, 02:17:15 AM
 #46

um have you seen thier site? BCI has a site where you can stake coins in your wallet, by just entering the address
they were competent enough to implement progpow which .... drum roll solves a problem

I won’t tell you witch problem lol u figure it out lol

What’s problem does btg , bcc solve compared to a coin that has all the innovation that bci dows , weekly. and monthly interest payments and the first to impl implement prog pow.

If the devs get rewarded for thier innovation thats a good thing

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September 12, 2018, 01:48:33 PM
 #47

Vosk, how can you make a post like this and then put a referral link to amazon for overpriced E3s?  A little hypocritical don't you think?
Regardless of my view that is the best miner for Ethereum, I think it is a good example of where we are at this point in crypto mining history -- will be an interesting timestamp at least to me to see in a couple years

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September 12, 2018, 01:59:36 PM
 #48

um have you seen thier site? BCI has a site where you can stake coins in your wallet, by just entering the address
they were competent enough to implement progpow which .... drum roll solves a problem

I won’t tell you witch problem lol u figure it out lol

What’s problem does btg , bcc solve compared to a coin that has all the innovation that bci dows , weekly. and monthly interest payments and the first to impl implement prog pow.

If the devs get rewarded for thier innovation thats a good thing

what really turned me off big time in my initial research on BCI and also why I stopped researching them is the fact they're buying social media accounts

https://www.facebook.com/BitcoinInterestBCI/




https://www.facebook.com/VoskCoin/




Posting my facebook for reference, which is over a year old and I've posted on average probably every 3 days, I have a tiny fraction of their likes, and more engagement on my last post which was not a super interesting post or anything. You can dig through their page and find the same.

Their listing on bitfinex is interesting as well



I am happy to see a project implement progpow, like . . very happy. Finally gives decent real world testing

I'd take BCI over BTG though I guess, BTG massive premine and just muddying up the BTC waters further  -- Not that BCI won't do that eventually but they're too small for now to muddy much up at all lol

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September 12, 2018, 02:00:47 PM
 #49

Wake me up when BCI solves any sort of problems or brings new ideas to the cryptospace.

Well it's up 22% right now so I guess it's possible they did something right.
bitconnect used to be up all the time too lol


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September 12, 2018, 02:11:40 PM
 #50

The people who complain about this, simply don't get it.   Vosk has a channel about mining, so obviously he has to cover things from a miner's point of view.  The miner's point of view is that they want to make money, and as much as possible.  The ETH developers meanwhile are trying to deliver a stable product.  Ethereum is very complex and its ridiculous for the dev team to sit there and work on forking an algo for what? to stop bitmain's "asic" that really doesn't perform that well but is efficient?  This reminds me of the SIA social media guy that finally quit and listed his reasoning.  Granted those guys have a lot of problems with Obelisk, etc, but regardless one of his biggest gripes was that 90% of the people posting could have cared less about SIA getting a working product or improving it.  All they cared about was ROI, making money/

I try to always be fair and unbiased but I do also voice my own personal opinion -- being a big fan of mining . . it is naturally in favor of mining (reasonably) FWIW

Not to start a huge debate but just one point I'd like to make, why would people care about a project they're not invested in?

I wouldn't classify it all as greed, it is more like being a part of something. If I can mine ETH, I can acquire ETH that way, I can support the ETH network, and then as I build more rigs / acquire more ETH, I naturally become more involved in the ETH community / ecosystem / vested interest in ETH success.

If all I have left to do is buy ETH, I would rather
(A) buy BTC a more established / renowned cryptocurrency also a more secure bet
OR
(B) I would invest into projects that are more speculative where I'd be more likely to see 10x returns (hopefully)

Yes of course everyone wants to make money, but not all people are fueled by only self-serving greed. I want to acquire a lot of cryptocurrency, be a part of something, and ultimately be rewarded for seeing the real use case / vision of crypto along w/ being a relatively early adopter

Otherwise if I do not stand to gain anything I am better off spending my time on a different job / business / other investments / hobbies etc -- granted I genuinely enjoy/love/ am passionate about crypto, and the above reasons are why I personally pursue it.

Check out my Crypto YouTube channel
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September 12, 2018, 04:45:35 PM
 #51

Wake me up when BCI solves any sort of problems or brings new ideas to the cryptospace.

Well it's up 22% right now so I guess it's possible they did something right.
bitconnect used to be up all the time too lol



hey hey heyyyyyyyyyyyyy

hey hey heyyyyyyyyyyyyy

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September 12, 2018, 05:21:39 PM
 #52

BCI has a site where you can stake coins in your wallet, by just entering the address
they were competent enough to implement progpow which .... drum roll solves a problem
Fair warning to anyone looking at BCI, There are no exchanges available to US residents i'm aware of that see enough BCI volume to where you can sell anywhere near market value at this time. Plus I have been weekly staking BCI for a few months and they only seem to pay out interest 75% of the time for whatever reason. Been trying to sell for a few weeks at market price now with little more than nibbles. The only thing I think progpow solves is a possible 51% attack which wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if they had a significant number of miners anyway.
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September 12, 2018, 05:43:03 PM
 #53

BCI has a site where you can stake coins in your wallet, by just entering the address
they were competent enough to implement progpow which .... drum roll solves a problem
Fair warning to anyone looking at BCI, There are no exchanges available to US residents i'm aware of that see enough BCI volume to where you can sell anywhere near market value at this time. Plus I have been weekly staking BCI for a few months and they only seem to pay out interest 75% of the time for whatever reason. Been trying to sell for a few weeks at market price now with little more than nibbles. The only thing I think progpow solves is a possible 51% attack which wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if they had a significant number of miners anyway.

Im in the us and i use hibtc wallets are supposed to be opened soon, I don’t know about the interest payments but um the wallets stayed closed while they worked on solving true issues with current gpu mining instead of doing a half ass fix like BTG , the hash ratecon equihash was large but dominated by groups of z9 miners , I suspect you are one of them , I can’t imagine you bought any of your BCI ? Death to asics viva la BCI lol








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September 12, 2018, 05:46:47 PM
 #54

The people who complain about this, simply don't get it.   Vosk has a channel about mining, so obviously he has to cover things from a miner's point of view.  The miner's point of view is that they want to make money, and as much as possible.  The ETH developers meanwhile are trying to deliver a stable product.  Ethereum is very complex and its ridiculous for the dev team to sit there and work on forking an algo for what? to stop bitmain's "asic" that really doesn't perform that well but is efficient?  This reminds me of the SIA social media guy that finally quit and listed his reasoning.  Granted those guys have a lot of problems with Obelisk, etc, but regardless one of his biggest gripes was that 90% of the people posting could have cared less about SIA getting a working product or improving it.  All they cared about was ROI, making money/

I try to always be fair and unbiased but I do also voice my own personal opinion -- being a big fan of mining . . it is naturally in favor of mining (reasonably) FWIW

Not to start a huge debate but just one point I'd like to make, why would people care about a project they're not invested in?

I wouldn't classify it all as greed, it is more like being a part of something. If I can mine ETH, I can acquire ETH that way, I can support the ETH network, and then as I build more rigs / acquire more ETH, I naturally become more involved in the ETH community / ecosystem / vested interest in ETH success.

If all I have left to do is buy ETH, I would rather
(A) buy BTC a more established / renowned cryptocurrency also a more secure bet
OR
(B) I would invest into projects that are more speculative where I'd be more likely to see 10x returns (hopefully)

Yes of course everyone wants to make money, but not all people are fueled by only self-serving greed. I want to acquire a lot of cryptocurrency, be a part of something, and ultimately be rewarded for seeing the real use case / vision of crypto along w/ being a relatively early adopter

Otherwise if I do not stand to gain anything I am better off spending my time on a different job / business / other investments / hobbies etc -- granted I genuinely enjoy/love/ am passionate about crypto, and the above reasons are why I personally pursue it.

Right, I mean if your channel was focused on coding and developing, you would of course be talking about a different aspect of this change. Grin    Now what you said makes sense, the more ETH you have/mine would naturally make you more invested in the project.  However, I think most people belly-aching about this aren't looking at the long term and instead the short term.  Which makes sense to a degree;  You laid out the earning in your video, and if someone bought a bunch of equipment explicitly to mine Ethereum (read AMD cards) then their cheeks are getting stretched to fissure and are about to apply the burn gel.  

If you look at this from an economic standpoint though, current annual ETH inflation is 7.4% and this change will bring it down to 4.5%.  Once POS is implemented it will be under 1%.  For a frame of reference the current annual Bitcoin inflation is 4.25%.  There is a oversupply of ETH and currently ETH is overpaying miners (not going to be a popular opinion I know).  ETH has 34% of bitcoin's market cap but is paying out 80% of bitcoin's rewards.  Current ETH supply is over 100 million and in the last year $6.6 billion was paid out in mining rewards.  Paying miners is to secure the network, not make people rich.  Last year the reward dropped from 5 to 3 and since then the hash rate has grown to 3X what it used to be.  The hard truth is a lot of people jumped into the mining craze when prices were going up.  Now that they are back to earth there are too many people mining.  Eventually there will be an equilibrium.  The people willing to mine for a smaller profit will continue to do so and a certain part will drop out thus increasing rewards for those who stayed.

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September 12, 2018, 06:18:24 PM
 #55

um have you seen thier site? BCI has a site where you can stake coins in your wallet, by just entering the address
they were competent enough to implement progpow which .... drum roll solves a problem

I won’t tell you witch problem lol u figure it out lol

What’s problem does btg , bcc solve compared to a coin that has all the innovation that bci dows , weekly. and monthly interest payments and the first to impl implement prog pow.

If the devs get rewarded for thier innovation thats a good thing

Already they have copied an idea and claimed to be the first.  Minexcoin has offered this "decentralized staking" for over a year now.

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September 12, 2018, 06:23:28 PM
 #56

....
If you look at this from an economic standpoint though, current annual ETH inflation is 7.4% and this change will bring it down to 4.5%.
...

Which is still pretty high. Bitcoin´s inflation rate will go down to 1.8 % after the next block
reward halving in 2020. 4.5 % inflation implies a lot of sell pressure by miners on top of the sell
pressure by ICOs that are looking to cash out their raised ETH. This will drive the ETH price even lower,
which makes GPU mining even more unprofitable.

....
Once POS is implemented it will be under 1%.  For a frame of reference the current annual Bitcoin inflation is 4.25%.  
...

Many people doubt if PoS is even viable in the long-term. Of course a few obscure altcoins
have implemented PoS and everything seems to work fine, but this is not a guarantee that it would
work equally well for a cryptocurrency with a higher market cap like ETH. ETH is obviously
a much more attractive target for people with nefarious intentions that know how to
exploit weaknesses in PoS.

Besides, I´m still not sure how realistic the change to PoS even is. The ETH developers
are just postponing the switch to PoS all the time, which could be seen as an indication
of intractable problems.


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September 12, 2018, 06:27:59 PM
 #57


Im in the us and i use hibtc wallets are supposed to be opened soon, I don’t know about the interest payments but um the wallets stayed closed while they worked on solving true issues with current gpu mining instead of doing a half ass fix like BTG , the hash ratecon equihash was large but dominated by groups of z9 miners , I suspect you are one of them , I can’t imagine you bought any of your BCI ? Death to asics viva la BCI lol
Correct, I mined about 200 BCI on batch 1 mini. I've been checking hitbtc for weeks but deposits are still closed for reasons I don't know. The only other possible option I see is tradesatoshi which charges high deposit/withdrawal fees and only sees like $100/day or less in volume making it very difficult to sell near market value. True, the global equihashrate was high, but BCI only saw a small % of that. Usually <5 MH/s with the exception of a few very high spikes per day leading me to believe it was probably being 51% attacked. (which may be why hitbtc deposits are locked and why they forked)
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September 12, 2018, 06:31:27 PM
 #58

Already they have copied an idea and claimed to be the first.  Minexcoin has offered this "decentralized staking" for over a year now.
The earliest I recall is a few Scrypt coins that do this from within the wallet since 2014-15
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September 12, 2018, 07:07:16 PM
 #59

Well looking at WhatToMine and putting in an RX 470 as an example hashing at 27.6mh/s and using 10 cent power yields about $0.40 revenue and after power $0.09 profit.

So at this point you really are better off just selling the GPU and just buy the coin instead. Or at least just mine until the block rewards are reduced and pretty much hope for the best.

Mining to make less then 10 cents before any Claymore or Pool or Exchange or Bank Fees is not worth the hassle.

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Marvell2
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September 12, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
 #60

Well looking at WhatToMine and putting in an RX 470 as an example hashing at 27.6mh/s and using 10 cent power yields about $0.40 revenue and after power $0.09 profit.

So at this point you really are better off just selling the GPU and just buy the coin instead. Or at least just mine until the block rewards are reduced and pretty much hope for the best.

Mining to make less then 10 cents before any Claymore or Pool or Exchange or Bank Fees is not worth the hassle.

Stop with the fud, you can mine xmr , cn heavy for near double that profit , eth is going pos anyways so its better we leave it to the asics, they can have it

private pool discord
https://discord.gg/7VRe2aW
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