Was Satoshi Nakamoto visionless?

[suzanne5223]

I'm not surprised if the OP called Satoshi Nakamoto vision less due to the scalability protocol of Bitcoin cause a lot of people are already against the protocol right from the get go in Satoshi mail archives. But, he understood why he choose a limit blocksize.

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[2fresh]

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS


We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

Centralized transactions yes

[jrrsparkles]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

Bitcoin is not only crypto,we have almost 1800+ crypto currencies at the moment some have better properties than bitcoin so we can handle all the world's transaction with cryptos but not only with the bitcoin so in future new cryptos will evolve and people will start uses the appropriate cryptos for their needs.

[bangkecol]

There is still a lot that needs to be upgraded from bitcoin if we compare bitcoin with visa / MasterCard maybe it is still far away, but from that bitcoin is still very, very much able to grow, and may be able to exceed visa / MasterCard in the future.

[KonstantinosM]

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi

Is Nakamato Satoshi the same as Satoshi Nakamoto?

I'd like to see the source of where he said that if you have it. It's an interesting quote. I've touched on something similar in a thread I made a while ago, in which I explained that we don't truly know which scenario is going to unfold in the future.


Anyway, I think that Satoshi had a vision and we're seeing it through, I don't blame him for disappearing. Also, just because he's not publicly here, that doesn't mean that he's not observing or posting/developing under a different name.

[hulla]

Satoshi is not vision less because he want the bitcoin network to be totally decentralized and most of the EOS,NEO etc that can process thousands of transactions per second are indirectly centralized because they rely on some validator nodes.

[squatter]

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi

Is Nakamato Satoshi the same as Satoshi Nakamoto?

I'd like to see the source of where he said that if you have it. It's an interesting quote. I've touched on something similar in a thread I made a while ago, in which I explained that we don't truly know which scenario is going to unfold in the future.

Here's the original quote:

Right.  Otherwise we couldn't have a finite limit of 21 million coins, because there would always need to be some minimum reward for generating.  In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will become the main compensation for nodes.  I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.

People should really go back and read his old posts here on the forum. They provide a lot of insight into why Bitcoin was designed like it was.

As it turned out, the block size limit Satoshi added is a very important mechanism for generating the fees required to compensate miners. Without some mechanism to disincentivize spam and drive fees up, we would have a tragedy of the commons situation, where everyone takes up block space without paying for it. That can't work where there is a limited supply of coins -- with each halving, miners get less and less subsidy. Eventually, they'll only get transaction fees. We need to incentivize miners to secure the network.

[hometester]

I don't think the first goal was to create a coin for transactions, most likely it was meant for private use

[Legendari]

Yes, bitcoin processes fewer transactions than visa or mastercard, but it is anonymous and your funds belong only to you! And this is much more important than the power of the system, which will grow in the future. IMHO

[seoincorporation]

"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Nakamato Satoshi

Is Nakamato Satoshi the same as Satoshi Nakamoto?

I'd like to see the source of where he said that if you have it. It's an interesting quote. I've touched on something similar in a thread I made a while ago, in which I explained that we don't truly know which scenario is going to unfold in the future.

Here's the original quote:

Right.  Otherwise we couldn't have a finite limit of 21 million coins, because there would always need to be some minimum reward for generating.  In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will become the main compensation for nodes.  I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.

People should really go back and read his old posts here on the forum. They provide a lot of insight into why Bitcoin was designed like it was.

As it turned out, the block size limit Satoshi added is a very important mechanism for generating the fees required to compensate miners. Without some mechanism to disincentivize spam and drive fees up, we would have a tragedy of the commons situation, where everyone takes up block space without paying for it. That can't work where there is a limited supply of coins -- with each halving, miners get less and less subsidy. Eventually, they'll only get transaction fees. We need to incentivize miners to secure the network.

Thanks to share the source from that satoshi's quote, but in that point he was talking about the mining rewards, lets remember the block reward get divided by half each X time, so, at end the block reward will be the transaction fees.

Bitcoin is not only crypto,we have almost 1800+ crypto currencies at the moment some have better properties than bitcoin so we can handle all the world's transaction with cryptos but not only with the bitcoin so in future new cryptos will evolve and people will start uses the appropriate cryptos for their needs.

You have a good point here, maybe with bitcoin will be hard to compete with visa TPS, but with all the altcoins maybe is possible. Would be smart to develop an altcoin who allow 6Million of transaction/minute, that could be a nice competitor to banks, but can you imagine how huge would be that blockchain? 1Gb blocks   

[hulla]

I don't think the first goal was to create a coin for transactions, most likely it was meant for private use

You're somehow right but the first impression behind bitcoin creation was fixing the financial problem which the government fail to do, make all man equal and to serve as the key to national liberation.   

[KonstantinosM]

Here's the original quote:

Right.  Otherwise we couldn't have a finite limit of 21 million coins, because there would always need to be some minimum reward for generating.  In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will become the main compensation for nodes.  I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.

People should really go back and read his old posts here on the forum. They provide a lot of insight into why Bitcoin was designed like it was.

As it turned out, the block size limit Satoshi added is a very important mechanism for generating the fees required to compensate miners. Without some mechanism to disincentivize spam and drive fees up, we would have a tragedy of the commons situation, where everyone takes up block space without paying for it. That can't work where there is a limited supply of coins -- with each halving, miners get less and less subsidy. Eventually, they'll only get transaction fees. We need to incentivize miners to secure the network.

With the full quote satoshi's vision is laser focused. It might now seem obvious but hindsight is 20/20.

Thanks squatter this is exactly the kind of post that deserves to be merited, doing legwork and offering insight as well, if I have any merit left I'll send you some.

[tegarp90]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

I think no, i'm sure the founder "satoshi nakamoto" is still behind the current crypto condition right now and he has a roadmap for 10 years ahead.
I'm sure something big will happen when the time is right

[Sponsoredby15]

Speed of the transaction in Bitcoin can be enhanced by upgrading. You forgot to mention that you need days if you are going  to transact in a bank for a certain amount and it can even freeze your account.

[Tamilson]

You are right but keep a look on International transaction. Bank takes usually 1 to 3 days in international transaction but with bitcoin you can transfer funds within few times. For these transactions bank ask you for so many formalities but bitcoin there is no such formalities. For these transactions bitcoin is best options instead of banking.

And not to mention the transactions weren't taxable since it's borderless and all we just pay is for the blockchain fee. I think nothing is more amazing than bitcoin. IMO, transaction shouldn't be a big deal thus what matter is our anonymity which make it unique.

I don't think Bitcoin was visionless, because I have read an article that Satoshi said, Bitcoin can go to sky high otherwise it will vanish. Though it was not a vision but still he thought bitcoin can go sky high!

Neither of the two can happen and nobody is certain what is more likely to happen in the future. Let's not spoil everything, why don't we just groove whatever bitcoin can give us.  

We always compare bitcoin versus banks since this is the best thing that we can be comparative and show how and what is the edge of bitcoin over banks. The idea was uniquely design that's far beyond our expectations.

[hakertajniak]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

Yes, for me this is the biggest obstacle for bitcoin to become a global currency, transaction speed.
Unless the blocktime of bitcoin reduced, i think peoples will prefer to use another crypto to pay something faster.

[seoincorporation]

Speed of the transaction in Bitcoin can be enhanced by upgrading. You forgot to mention that you need days if you are going  to transact in a bank for a certain amount and it can even freeze your account.

I know they can freeze my acount and as you say, some transactions take days, but at end the number of transactions they do are massive and not comparable with bitcoin.

...
Yes, for me this is the biggest obstacle for bitcoin to become a global currency, transaction speed.
Unless the blocktime of bitcoin reduced, i think peoples will prefer to use another crypto to pay something faster.

There are two solutiosn, the first one is like you say, blocktime reduction, that would provide more transactions confirmed in the same period of time, the other way is bigger blocks, this way we could have more transactionsin one block. But at end the solution is to mix this two options, bigger and faster blocks, but again, that will end in a huge blockchain and not sure if we want that.

[Raggie]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

I think he just want to create a new way of payment system in the world, at least peoples won't need to use fiat currency anymore.
Satoshi opened the way from creating cryptocurrency, and developers nowadays perfect it with creating the other altcoins which have faster TPS, cheaper fee than bitcoin.

[Dmitry.Vastov]

I'm not sure if satoshi makes bitcoin as an alternative payment system, or with the intention to create the best and most used payment system, but this second option is impossible by the bitcoin nature and i will explain why.

If bitcoin want to become the #1 transactions and payment system it would have to be really more powerfull. If we compare the daily transactions banks vs daily transactions bitcoins, then you will understand why i call satoshi visionless:

Mastercard maintains 99.999 % availability and can process 3.4 billion transactions per day at 38,000+ transactions per second, with an average response time of 140 milliseconds….

Visa is at 24,000 TPS

https://www.quora.com/How-many-transactions-do-typical-banks-process-everyday

TPS: Transactions Per Second.

While bitcoin have blocks each 10 minutes with 2500 transactions aprox, that give us an averange of 4 TPS.

We are far away to compete with banks, bitcoin by it self is not able to handle all the transactions the world have, so, maybe is good time to think about the next steps, and get some big goal like substitute banks with btc. But no one say it would be easy 

Bitcoin was introduced to the people in 2009 and it is now been a decade after its introduction and is considered as the most finest and the most innovative invention as before no other currency is so sustainable and so beneficial that is able to provide such a great profit in very short span of time and SATOSHI NAKAMOTO is considered as the inventor of bitcoin, though nobody has met him yet and even saw him but he used to communicate with its investors through social networking sites and ones in my life I would like to meet him.