Are we pissing in the wind? Is the fight winnable?

[KS03]

It looks like more and more we are facing a losing battle and may possibly need to switch tactics. 

You are in no way shape or form going to stop the influx of 3rd world posters attempting to provide for their family.  Your fighting human nature.  I also strongly feel as the market turns back around the spam is going to increase dramatically as more and more people become aware of the opportunity.  All the gains that I see posted on the reduction of spam could simply be due to the horrible market and inability to earn much doing bounties at this point.  As we march back to a trillion dollar market cap I predict this problem will become worse. 

I think the steps taken so far have been great (specially the 1 merit for jr member).  I would like to see that bumped to 3 but if merit is selling for around $10 a pop I'm not sure if it makes much of a difference between 1 and 3. 

I believe we now must fight the spam on the ICO level which means that you cannot have a signature bounty on this forum requiring 15 posts per week.  If a rule was made to perhaps a max of 5 post allowed per week per signature bounty you would reduce spam massively with that one move.  A few hundred projects are much easier to monitor than 100's of thousands of user accounts.  We have tons of spam warriors here.  Lets unleash them on a battle that is winnable.  Against the projects which are paying people to spam.  We have a situation where projects are coming to the forum and paying people to spam (15 posts per week) and we are going after the people and not the projects.  This does not make sense to me. 

The mass shit poster has nothing to lose by continuing.  It will cost him 10 bucks to buy the merit he needs per account to continue his ways.  At most he loses 10 bucks.  Now imagine the ICO who is looking to rake in millions.  Do you think they are going to break forum rules in the first place by requiring mass posting to receive a signature bounty?  of course not.  If they try it the spam warriors will take it down and win a huge victory against spam.

I feel we either kill the signatures or put the pressure on the projects not the newbies (aside from what has been put in place so far).  There are billions of potential spammer but only a few hundred projects at a given time.

Lets make a battle we can win.   The hungry will always find a way.  Hungry people cause revolutions and change history.  Fighting them over spam is not going to work.  Go after the guys who have money already.  The ICO projects. 

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[allahabadi]

Kill the signatures?

Theymos doesn't want to do that, but yeah he can disable them for upto Member rank, see if that helps.


Also, this is not a fight they'll lose, cause every Bounty hunter has an incentive. Unless you remove that.

[Harlot]

Instead of going against the ICO developers why not have a well trained campaign manager? This shit posters won't even have a campaign if all campaign managers extensively screen the member applications. And to continue the quality of posts managers must always monitor their members and apply a strict rule on people who are trying to abuse once they get in the campaign. If they don't have a signature campaign to participate with they won't be posting shit as they know it won't be paid by anyone.

[Initscri]

The point is to make it as unprofitable as possible to spam/abuse the forum. The new rules are definitely helpful, but they need to be implemented in tandem with other prevention methods (automated reporting scripts, etc).

If money is spent to +1 merit, and the user just gets banned anyways for useless posts/spam/plagiarism eventually, then there won't be much of a point to spending the money on merit. The more and more this happens, the less profitable it will be to abuse bounties & the hope is that the spam/abuse will be reduced to a manageable level.

As with every other forum, it will always be a constant fight. But TBH, I'm not ok with letting spammers ruin it for legitimate members who participate in sig campaigns/bounties.

[kudil]

Kill the signatures?

Theymos doesn't want to do that, but yeah he can disable them for upto Member rank, see if that helps.


Also, this is not a fight they'll lose, cause every Bounty hunter has an incentive. Unless you remove that.

Up to "Member" Rank? Why not up to "Full Member"? Come on my friend, it's not about rank but it's about "How to get a lot of money in bounty program", for that, many people try to create multiple accounts to reach jr.member and then join signature campaign with SPAM Post.

Example rules in bounty program:
Jr.Member: 1 Stakes
Member: 2 Stakes
Full Member: 3 Stakes
SR.Member: 4 Stakes
Hero Member: 5 Stakes
Legendary: 6 Stakes

Just create 6 account, make lots of posts to reach Jr.Member, Abrakadabra, he/she will get same stakes with "legendary" rank. (That's just example, how easy to get a lot of money in this forum)

I think main problem in this forum is, so easy to create multiple accounts!

What's your opinion if the rules are changed to "One Person One Account"? And should to pass KYC?

[cryptovigi]

We aim to fight against the spam – ICO’s want to have a signature below the meaningful post (because it's much better advertisement than under the spam one) more or less it’s the same. I’m sure that ICO’s managers don’t aim to flow spam across the forum.
So the issue is to run campaign properly. Does it mean that bounty managers doesn’t their job efficiently? Why?
During the last 30 days more 200 campaigns with signature campaign started up. Average campaign lasts 8 -12 weeks so more or less we have 500 signature campaigns at the same time so there is the need of few hundreds managers how many of them are „professionalists”?

as @Harlot said Well trained campaign manager is keyvalue both for the forum and for ICO’s but I’m afraid ICO’s have mostly no idea what it mean… but the question how could it be achieved still remains?

As long as our goals are convergent maybe collaboration is the key? But what kind – by introducing Trainings? Certificates? (rather complicated) But maybe it would be enough to "develop" some tools which are mandatory to be used in every signature campaign under pain of punishment. Introduction some regulations regarding the way of conducting and controlling signature campaigns could do a lot of good both for the forum and for ICO’s.

...
Just create 6 account, make lots of posts to reach Jr.Member, Abrakadabra, he/she will get same stakes with "legendary" rank. (That's just example, how easy to get a lot of money in this forum)

I think main problem in this forum is, so easy to create multiple accounts!

What's your opinion if the rules are changed to "One Person One Account"? And should to pass KYC?

Totally agree - multiple account for signature bounty are the worst pain in the ass... that's why raising the merit level is good but not for long time it will kick off small hunters but hundreds of BIG HUNTERS with dozens of account probably find the way to buy merit pay someone to write posts (It's all about money - as long profits are higher than costs they will probably find a solution) etc...  unless merit level will be raised to really high rank but it wouldn't be fair for regular users...

KYC for joining the forum? I'm not sure maybe verification via SMS at first (using hundred of simcards wouldn't stop but surely complicate using mutliple accounts)

[xtraelv]

...
Just create 6 account, make lots of posts to reach Jr.Member, Abrakadabra, he/she will get same stakes with "legendary" rank. (That's just example, how easy to get a lot of money in this forum)

I think main problem in this forum is, so easy to create multiple accounts!

What's your opinion if the rules are changed to "One Person One Account"? And should to pass KYC?

Totally agree - multiple account for signature bounty are the worst pain in the ass... that's why raising the merit level is good but not for long time it will kick off small hunters but hundreds of BIG HUNTERS with dozens of account probably find the way to buy merit pay someone to write posts (It's all about money - as long profits are higher than costs they will probably find a solution) etc...  unless merit level will be raised to really high rank but it wouldn't be fair for regular users...

KYC for joining the forum I'm not sure maybe verification via SMS at first (using hundred of simcards wouldn't stop but surely complicate using mutliple accounts)

Read The Cypherpunks and Bitcoin. The years before bitcointalk. and look up Libertarianism.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

...and you'll understand why KYC will never...ever...happen. Unless forced by gunpoint or at threat of imprisonment perhaps being the exceptions.

KYC will be the end of the beginning.

[iamwagner]

We aim to fight against the spam – ICO’s want to have a signature below the meaningful post (because it's much better advertisement than under the spam one) more or less it’s the same. I’m sure that ICO’s managers don’t aim to flow spam across the forum.
So the issue is to run campaign properly. Does it mean that bounty managers doesn’t their job efficiently? Why?
During the last 30 days more 200 campaigns with signature campaign started up. Average campaign lasts 8 -12 weeks so more or less we have 500 signature campaigns at the same time so there is the need of few hundreds managers how many of them are „professionalists”?

as @Harlot said Well trained campaign manager is keyvalue both for the forum and for ICO’s but I’m afraid ICO’s have mostly no idea what it mean… but the question how could it be achieved still remains?

As long as our goals are convergent maybe collaboration is the key? But what kind – by introducing Trainings? Certificates? (rather complicated) But maybe it would be enough to "develop" some tools which are mandatory to be used in every signature campaign under pain of punishment. Introduction some regulations regarding the way of conducting and controlling signature campaigns could do a lot of good both for the forum and for ICO’s.

...
Just create 6 account, make lots of posts to reach Jr.Member, Abrakadabra, he/she will get same stakes with "legendary" rank. (That's just example, how easy to get a lot of money in this forum)

I think main problem in this forum is, so easy to create multiple accounts!

What's your opinion if the rules are changed to "One Person One Account"? And should to pass KYC?

Totally agree - multiple account for signature bounty are the worst pain in the ass... that's why raising the merit level is good but not for long time it will kick off small hunters but hundreds of BIG HUNTERS with dozens of account probably find the way to buy merit pay someone to write posts (It's all about money - as long profits are higher than costs they will probably find a solution) etc...  unless merit level will be raised to really high rank but it wouldn't be fair for regular users...

KYC for joining the forum? I'm not sure maybe verification via SMS at first (using hundred of simcards wouldn't stop but surely complicate using mutliple accounts)

Ok this pisses me off horribly bad.  

You can take your KYC and shove it up your ass.  You can also shove any piece of technology which attempts to violate my privacy and identify me right up your ass as well.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

If you continue to set a KYC precedence the governments WILL tie your name to your wallet and every transaction you make will be tracked and auto taxed.  The elite want a one world currency.  They need to be able to tax all of us.  Even in the most remote parts of the world.  The blockchain (Block + Chain) will allow them to tax people from Alaska to China easily if they can tie you to your wallet.  THINK.  Don't let your greed for a few bucks ruin the lives of future generations.  The world is completely hook winked and have no idea they are even slaves let alone able to fight back.  This chance to get a monetary system free of the central bankers will not come around again for a very long time.

[KingScorpio]

Instead of going against the ICO developers why not have a well trained campaign manager? This shit posters won't even have a campaign if all campaign managers extensively screen the member applications. And to continue the quality of posts managers must always monitor their members and apply a strict rule on people who are trying to abuse once they get in the campaign. If they don't have a signature campaign to participate with they won't be posting shit as they know it won't be paid by anyone.

sounds like you want only icos that are extremly well founded to be successful like ripple?

@OP jes the fight is unwinnable, to the shitposters next we will get the programmed bot armies that are opening accounts and pretend to be people with carefully designed profiles

it will never end. bitcoin opened a box of pandora so everything that happens happens for good reason, many will wish back the old times with defined currencies and the global war against poverty.

regards

[kudil]

KYC for joining the forum? I'm not sure maybe verification via SMS at first (using hundred of simcards wouldn't stop but surely complicate using mutliple accounts)

Thanks for the respond, but I think if only use verification SMS such "one account one nomor phone", in my opinion they will buy a lot of simcards only to create accounts in this forum and can't get rid of multiple accounts.

.....
Read The Cypherpunks and Bitcoin. The years before bitcointalk. and look up Libertarianism.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

...and you'll understand why KYC will never...ever...happen. Unless forced by gunpoint or at threat of imprisonment perhaps being the exceptions.

KYC will be the end of the beginning.

Thanks for the great response, Yes, we need privacy but sometime under certain conditions we must provide the privacy for several purposes. Say in terms of creating a Bank Account, because of your trust in the bank, you don't mind giving your ID Card Information.

So, I think it's about trust, if you believe this Forum, you won't matter to fill KYC Procedure. But we have each opinion, that's normal and I like your response, hehe.

....
If you continue to set a KYC precedence the governments WILL tie your name to your wallet and every transaction you make will be tracked and auto taxed.  The elite want a one world currency.  They need to be able to tax all of us.  Even in the most remote parts of the world.  The blockchain (Block + Chain) will allow them to tax people from Alaska to China easily if they can tie you to your wallet.  THINK.  Don't let your greed for a few bucks ruin the lives of future generations.  The world is completely hook winked and have no idea they are even slaves let alone able to fight back.  This chance to get a monetary system free of the central bankers will not come around again for a very long time.

Thanks for your response, Well I agree with you, We must not provide privacy for not important things.

But we are discussing about to create account in this forum. I have THINK, I believe this Forum, so it doesn't matter to me to provide My Identity Card Information to get rid of multiple accounts. IMO.

[xhomerx10]

We aim to fight against the spam – ICO’s want to have a signature below the meaningful post (because it's much better advertisement than under the spam one) more or less it’s the same. I’m sure that ICO’s managers don’t aim to flow spam across the forum.
So the issue is to run campaign properly. Does it mean that bounty managers doesn’t their job efficiently? Why?
During the last 30 days more 200 campaigns with signature campaign started up. Average campaign lasts 8 -12 weeks so more or less we have 500 signature campaigns at the same time so there is the need of few hundreds managers how many of them are „professionalists”?

as @Harlot said Well trained campaign manager is keyvalue both for the forum and for ICO’s but I’m afraid ICO’s have mostly no idea what it mean… but the question how could it be achieved still remains?

As long as our goals are convergent maybe collaboration is the key? But what kind – by introducing Trainings? Certificates? (rather complicated) But maybe it would be enough to "develop" some tools which are mandatory to be used in every signature campaign under pain of punishment. Introduction some regulations regarding the way of conducting and controlling signature campaigns could do a lot of good both for the forum and for ICO’s.

...
Just create 6 account, make lots of posts to reach Jr.Member, Abrakadabra, he/she will get same stakes with "legendary" rank. (That's just example, how easy to get a lot of money in this forum)

I think main problem in this forum is, so easy to create multiple accounts!

What's your opinion if the rules are changed to "One Person One Account"? And should to pass KYC?

Totally agree - multiple account for signature bounty are the worst pain in the ass... that's why raising the merit level is good but not for long time it will kick off small hunters but hundreds of BIG HUNTERS with dozens of account probably find the way to buy merit pay someone to write posts (It's all about money - as long profits are higher than costs they will probably find a solution) etc...  unless merit level will be raised to really high rank but it wouldn't be fair for regular users...

KYC for joining the forum? I'm not sure maybe verification via SMS at first (using hundred of simcards wouldn't stop but surely complicate using mutliple accounts)

Ok this pisses me off horribly bad.  

You can take your KYC and shove it up your ass.  You can also shove any piece of technology which attempts to violate my privacy and identify me right up your ass as well.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)

If you continue to set a KYC precedence the governments WILL tie your name to your wallet and every transaction you make will be tracked and auto taxed.  The elite want a one world currency.  They need to be able to tax all of us.  Even in the most remote parts of the world.  The blockchain (Block + Chain) will allow them to tax people from Alaska to China easily if they can tie you to your wallet.  THINK.  Don't let your greed for a few bucks ruin the lives of future generations.  The world is completely hook winked and have no idea they are even slaves let alone able to fight back.  This chance to get a monetary system free of the central bankers will not come around again for a very long time.

 I'm not for KYC legislation by any means but the Benjamin Franklin quote you use actually means the opposite of what you think it means. Ben was actually arguing in favour of taxation and the Pennsylvania General Assembly's authority to govern in the interests of collective security.  ie they had the authority to implement a tax but the governor was vetoing the effort
Taxation without representation was the primary cause of the American revolution so the essential liberty Ben was speaking about was taxation by representation.

History has been bastardized and great men misquoted for political opportunism...
 ...and this pisses me off horribly bad

[squatter]

I think main problem in this forum is, so easy to create multiple accounts!

What's your opinion if the rules are changed to "One Person One Account"? And should to pass KYC?

Not going to happen. KYC is completely out of the question -- you realize this is a message board, right? If it comes to that, signature campaigns should just be banned outright. I'd much prefer that.

What is with these people who are just dying to give away their personal identifying information and government ID? Do you enjoy having your identity stolen?

Also, there's nothing wrong with having more than one account. I love me a good gimmick account.