Wu Announces BM 7NM pending Miner release. 42 J/TH

[BenRickert]

So today in Georgia Jihan made his long awaited announcement. ( See Bitmain Web page ) The new 7NM ASIC from BM is coming. When? How Much? most importantly " How much better. Claiming 42 J/TH for the 7NM. Thoughts?

NEW MINING MACHINE WILL BE AVAILABLE SOON
New Chip Uses the 7nm Semiconductor Manufacturing Process and Will Greatly Improve Power Efficiency

BEIJING, P.R. China, September 21, 2018 – Jihan Wu, CEO and co-founder of Bitmain Technologies Ltd. announced Bitmain’s next-generation ASIC chip BM1391 for mining cryptocurrencies using the SHA256 algorithm at the World Digital Mining Summit in Georgia today. Mr. Wu also revealed that Bitmain will soon launch a new generation of mining machines equipped with the BM1391 chip.

The new ASIC SHA256 algorithm acceleration chip carefully built by Bitmain uses one of the world’s most advanced semiconductor manufacturing technologies, 7nm FinFET. The ASIC chip integrates more than a billion transistors and is optimized for maximum efficiency. Thanks to its unique circuit structure and low power technology, it is stable and more efficient. Mr. Wu said tests have shown that the chip can achieve a ratio of energy consumption to the mining capacity that is as low as 42J/TH.

At his keynote speech at the summit, Wu Jihan said mass production of the 7nm chip will begin and be applied to the next generation of Bitmain’s Antminer machines, improving the new miners in various performance indicators, in terms of power and power consumption, and enabling outstanding performance.

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[HagssFIN]

They published a press release here: https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generation-7nm-asic-chip/

[BenRickert]

Thanks for the Link Hags. I'm a bit sleepy. Sorry.

They published a press release here: https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generation-7nm-asic-chip/

Hey I'm curious as to your take. I'm throwing a wild guess at possible efficiency gain. My assumptions; 28-32 TH with a 1700-1800 watt power draw. So 3-4 times efficiency gain over the S9 13.5th. Yours??

[mgoz]

My assumptions; 28-32 TH with a 1700-1800 watt power draw.

That would be 56-60 J/TH. At same power draw it would be 40-43 TH/s if it were 42 J/TH. I'd like to see them do sub 1k power draw model. Something like 18 TH/s @ 750W.

[HagssFIN]

It will be more like 2 - 2.5 times power efficiency gain vs. the Ant S9.

[BenRickert]

It will be more like 2 - 2.5 times power efficiency gain vs. the Ant S9.

Well.....depending on price......We'll see how worth it it will be to sit up all night hitting the "refresh button" on the bitmain order page.

[philipma1957]

It will be more like 2 - 2.5 times power efficiency gain vs. the Ant S9.

if it comes and works as well as they say.

I could see a 48 to 52 watt per th unit.

but so far no hard evidence of it doing 42 watts per th


Bitmain  has not made the best chip  for any algo for more then a year.

That is in terms of efficiency.

I have heard a lot of negative buzz on the 7nm chip wafer they produced.

But as always if they come out with a 42 watt per th   miner at the lowest price per th

They will remain the king.

A simple 25 th  at 42 watts a th = 1050 watt foot print.

I wonder if they go the M10 route or the T2Turbo route  and they  come with  built in psu.

[Zand_]

I haven't been keeping up with the latest ASIC releases but I'm guessing (if specs are accurate) this would be the most effecient SHA-256 miner on the market?

[VRobb]

Math is off: 42% of the power is used for same hash, or a bit more than 2x as efficient which is still quite impressive!

[hashestohashes]

I figured they would announce something at that thingy thats been headlining their front page for....months it feels like.

[Zand_]

Math is off: 42% of the power is used for same hash, or a bit more than 2x as efficient which is still quite impressive!

Can you elaborate? Not sure I follow

[sarcheer]

Based on the reliability of the S9, Bitmains failures with their test wafers, and IPO problems I would wait at least 6 months after these are in the hands of people before touching them.

Just feels like this machine is going to have some problems.

Edit: not to mention KYC requirements. No way in hell am I sending my sensitive ID documentation to hack-prone Bitmain.

[HagssFIN]

Can you elaborate? Not sure I follow

You need to learn some more math.

If it would be four times as efficient, it would mean 25 J per Th/s.

[Zand_]

You need to learn some more math.

If it would be four times as efficient, it would mean 25 J per Th/s.

Not disagreeing with you, joules were never covered in math class. Let me see if I got this right...

.1J/GH (or .1W/GH) comes out to 100J/TH. So 42J/TH would make it roughly 138% more efficient?

[VRobb]

Yes, it's 2.38 times as efficient, so it has 138% more hash for the power.  A bit convoluted, but on!  

[Gws24]

The stated efficiency is only for the chip and not the miner (and only in a lab so best case) so I would expect something like 55 J/TH rather than 42 J/TH but that is not really that impressive since Whatsminer is doing that on 16nm.

nice tweetstorm from Samson Mow
https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/1043181897319247872

and yes, I know Samson Mow and Jihan Wu aren't exactly friends but he raises some interesting questions.

[philipma1957]

The stated efficiency is only for the chip and not the miner (and only in a lab so best case) so I would expect something like 55 J/TH rather than 42 J/TH but that is not really that impressive since Whatsminer is doing that on 16nm.

nice tweetstorm from Samson Mow
https://twitter.com/Excellion/status/1043181897319247872

and yes, I know Samson Mow and Jihan Wu aren't exactly friends but he raises some interesting questions.

Yes he does doesn’t he.

I will add that bitmain has not produced a top efficiency miner of any kind in quite a while.

I wish I had a few more m10

I think the newer m10s will come out soon and be the miner to get.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Not disagreeing with you, joules were never covered in math class. Let me see if I got this right...

.1J/GH (or .1W/GH) comes out to 100J/TH. So 42J/TH would make it roughly 138% more efficient?

As a point of reference, the Joule is a measure of total energy per-second so 1 Joule = a 1 Watt load averaged over one second.
A Watt is a measure of energy at any given instant in time.

A fun example: One of our lasers produces an average of 100W of power firing 100J pulses that are 1ns wide (0.000,000,001sec) at a rate of 1 shot per-second: peak power of those 1ns wide pulses = 100,000,000,000W or 100Giga-watts.

[Foofighter]

We were also there and wrote some follow up story. Jihan basically shared his Vision for the next 10 years and at last a sneak peak of a new chip.
There was also alot about Ai and Quantum computing stuff in his speech.

https://www.cryptouniverse.at/world-digitial-mining-summit-kicks-off-with-an-amazing-speech-and-new-7nm-miners/

[Thetaj]

Well something is definitely going on since Bitmain is now out of 16nm chips (from my sources). From what I hear they are full-steaming for production of this new 7nm wafer. Bad news for anyone with an S9 since there will be no support in 3 months (but it'll be trash by then anyways so...)

[Guinsanity]

Well something is definitely going on since Bitmain is now out of 16nm chips (from my sources). From what I hear they are full-steaming for production of this new 7nm wafer. Bad news for anyone with an S9 since there will be no support in 3 months (but it'll be trash by then anyways so...)

Better late than never.

[philipma1957]

Well something is definitely going on since Bitmain is now out of 16nm chips (from my sources). From what I hear they are full-steaming for production of this new 7nm wafer. Bad news for anyone with an S9 since there will be no support in 3 months (but it'll be trash by then anyways so...)

it won't be trash in 3 months more like 9 months.

most of the network is s9 it will take more the 3 months for buyers to replace them.

Unless the s11 does 45 watts  and 30th with a built in psu and costs under 1000 usd.

That would sell well even in the frozen usa market it will sell.

Or bitmain prices high like the m10 at 1600 which won't sell to usa miners quickly.

[Guinsanity]

I think bitmain gonna do better efficiency with same price as M10, including PSU.
They not gonna sell so cheap s11 gears

[fanatic26_]

Unless the s11 does 45 watts  and 30th with a built in psu and costs under 1000 usd.

I dont see any reason why people would want to pay extra for a built in PSU. Anyone doing mass upgrades from the S9 already has power supplies, most likely of a higher quality than the ones that come built onto miners. I know the last thing I want is another proprietary part in my datacenter that I cant just switch out on the fly.

[philipma1957]

I dont see any reason why people would want to pay extra for a built in PSU. Anyone doing mass upgrades from the S9 already has power supplies, most likely of a higher quality than the ones that come built onto miners. I know the last thing I want is another proprietary part in my datacenter that I cant just switch out on the fly.

if it is all they sell you will have no choice.

the more i think about it they will do a 40th unit using an attached psu

getting 48 to 52 watts a th.

sold at 950 to 1050  it kills everyone price and efficiency wise.

and forces you to buy it with the psu attached, since the psu needs to handle about 2100 watts.

[Steamtyme]

and forces you to buy it with the psu attached, since the psu needs to handle about 2100 watts.

One thing I've wondered about these attached PSU machines (never owned one). Do the manufacturers make them in a way that you can't use an external one in any way? I've run most of my equipment on 2400W PSU's so in theory if their PSU fails I would have spares.

That is assuming of course that they want to sell it with an integrated PSU. I'm not going to lie I don't see the appeal in it myself. It's just another piece to wear out; so unless they have an abundance of them laying around or on order for pennies on the dollar I wouldn't waste my time. From a consumer standpoint I would probably pay a little extra total cost getting setup, for the convenience of choosing my own PSU.

[philipma1957]

well  we are in tight margin times.

bitmain sold a lot of s9i and s9j cheap  at least ⅔ of mining gear is some kind of an

 s9
 s9i
 s9j

they mostly have disposable psus.

if bitmain can put out a 45-50 watt per th  unit we will need to buy it or not mine

a 10 cent per kwatt s9  is in the red

and if bitmain pushes this with that big psu

 a 6 cent a kwatt s9 will soon be dead

but that s11 will be a money maker.

bitmain is exposing what unchecked selling of low priced miners does to the industry.

[fanatic26_]

and forces you to buy it with the psu attached, since the psu needs to handle about 2100 watts.

thats the frustrating thing. I have THOUSANDS of 2450w PSUs that would go to waste in this scenario. Hopefully they do like in the past and make a version with and without. Previously all of their built in PSU systems were for the chinese market only.

[philipma1957]

thats the frustrating thing. I have THOUSANDS of 2450w PSUs that would go to waste in this scenario. Hopefully they do like in the past and make a version with and without. Previously all of their built in PSU systems were for the chinese market only.

Yeah it would hurt a guy like you.

But boost their psu sales a lot.

[ccgllc]

I have PSU issues much more frequently than I have miner issues.  If the PSU was built-in my farm reliability would really go down.

[sarcheer]

Hopefully the (potential) built-in PSU will be modular and simple to change/replace. Looking at my T2T, I can imagine tinkering and replacing the built-in PSU with a APW5 by removing the PCI cabling and using the bolts. I can also imagine killing my T2T this way haha. Has anyone ever replaced a built-in ASIC psu with an APWx?

[philipma1957]

Hopefully the (potential) built-in PSU will be modular and simple to change/replace. Looking at my T2T, I can imagine tinkering and replacing the built-in PSU with a APW5 by removing the PCI cabling and using the bolts. I can also imagine killing my T2T this way haha. Has anyone ever replaced a built-in ASIC psu with an APWx?

this is funny as my t2turbo has crapped out at the solar array..  I may be doing this I am not looking forward to it.

I will be driving over to the array today to figure out what it did.

[Thetaj]

Hey Phil, I wouldn't get my hopes up on the efficiency. There are alot of problems it seems with the 7nm chips and it is very hard to get good efficiency on them. It may get something around 60-70watt/th but I seriously doubt anyone will get anything below 50watt/th in the next few years. I'm not a chip engineer so I don't know the whole detail so perhaps others that are more knowledgable would chime in as to why. But yea, so far the big brands are struggling to get the performance to where they want it to be. I expect Bitcoin mining to shrink if anything (in terms of miners) in the coming years. Anyone above 0.05kw/hr will be hard pressed to stay in the game.

[philipma1957]

Hey Phil, I wouldn't get my hopes up on the efficiency. There are alot of problems it seems with the 7nm chips and it is very hard to get good efficiency on them. It may get something around 60-70watt/th but I seriously doubt anyone will get anything below 50watt/th in the next few years. I'm not a chip engineer so I don't know the whole detail so perhaps others that are more knowledgable would chime in as to why. But yea, so far the big brands are struggling to get the performance to where they want it to be. I expect Bitcoin mining to shrink if anything (in terms of miners) in the coming years. Anyone above 0.05kw/hr will be hard pressed to stay in the game.

yeah we are hitting the wall as diff is going sideways and we are creeping down to where only 2-4 cent power works.

[qctechno_isback]

42J/TH ... didn't happen yet. Hope Halloween will bring some candies.

[philipma1957]

42J/TH ... didn't happen yet. Hope Halloween will bring some candies.

rumor has it they had another fail on wafer burn of 7nm chips.

  some say the third fail.
 some say the second fail.