What's more important to judge whether or not I should be trusted?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Since we're in crypto, another outside the box idea:
<snip>

I like that idea in spirit, but in practice it's way too complicated.

The better solution is for me to right the wrong and with no bargaining or expectation from iluvbitcoins or anyone else.  My feedback will be removed, and not only should I not have left it in the first place (my instinct told me not to), but I should have removed it before the situation came to this. 

My apologies to iluvbitcoins for any problems my neg caused him, and I'll leave it at that.  This was one of the tougher calls I've had to make, and I made the wrong one.

[1714011639]

1714011639

[1714011639]

1714011639

[1714011639]

1714011639

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

An interesting idea, but can we not have some Golden Balls style mind games and deception first? The forum has been lacking in exciting drama for a while.

Edit: The Pharmacist robbed me of my entertainment by being selfless. How selfish of him!

[cryptotsunami]

OP attempted to blackmail us into removing their ratings. We got tagged for not giving in. Any attempts at making their ratings appear under a real pretense is therefore void (actually makes them a even less trustworthy).

I still have the PMs from iluvbitcoins he sent me after I tagged him, and I can't speak for Lauda but iluvbitcoins didn't try to blackmail me into removing my feedback.  He explained his situation and requested that I change my neg to a neutral, but he wasn't threatening and was polite throughout the entire exchange.

That one was a very tough call, because I did look at his trust page and I didn't then and don't now think iluvbitcoins is a scammer, just that selling accounts is untrustworthy behavior.  I made the call to be consistent in giving feedback, but I waffled on it for a bit.  I'm fine with the feedback he left me--believe me, I'm the last person who's going to complain about getting negged, even if it's by a DT member, but this case was one where I second-guessed myself a couple of times and I regret that it's come to this.

I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't at this point.  If I were to remove my feedback now, everyone would accuse me of doing it for my own interests, and if I let it stay in place I honestly feel like I'm not being fair to a member who probably deserves to have the neg removed by now.  I've removed feedback on members I've tagged for account selling after a period of time (which isn't set in stone) if they've shown evidence that they've done something that gives evidence of their trustworthiness--usually getting positive trust with valid references.  iluvbitcoins doesn't actually meet those criteria from the time I left my neg, but it's hard to ignore all his other positives.

I wouldn't mind hearing some thoughts from people about this, whether I get lambasted or not. 

KARMA is a bitch! You can't even prove that my account is connected to all "crypto" name in this forum. You are also stupid that you think all crypto name is the same person. You are in a Crypto world you idiot, and you expect that it should have no "crypto" in a user name?

[Lauda]

Posting without reading anything is back again.

Lol, I was going through my PMs when I saw your Profile with the Negative trust... Your last post led me to this thread. Went through 3 pages of it and surprisingly found you trolling. Something which I didn't associate you with in the past. But looks like getting Removed from Default trust has started to mess with your ego.  

Are you intentionally lying or just playing this one? You've clearly read nothing or are delusional if you believe this is a "perfect example" of an error in judgement. Funny how your responses shift depending on my DT status. My opinions are consistent with our without DT, unlike you hypocrite.  

Lauda has a long history of trolling those who he is in a dispute with. He rarely will engage in meaningful dialogue with his critics.

Whining again mr. Scammer?

-snip-

You've got plenty of account-sale related revoking to do in that case, if you want to remain consistent.

[Thekool1s]

Edit: The Pharmacist robbed me of my entertainment by being selfless. How selfish of him! Tongue

We need more DT members likes him. Those who don't have ego issues.   We are all humans, we can sometimes make decisions which aren't the best but accepting they were wrong and fixing them by doing the right thing takes a lot of courage and selflessness.

P.S I am looking forward to a Happy ending iluvbitcoins, Please don't disappoint me

Are you intentionally lying or just playing this one?

Even tho I don't have to prove anything to you but still, here you go. I was going through my PMs for this screenshot https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5057107.msg47256218#msg47256218

Funny how your responses shift depending on my DT status.

Lol, this has nothing to do your DT status. I still respect you for the work you have done with SMAS and for the forum.

Hypocrite.

Okay...

[The Cryptovator]

Apologize, I have open this case about The Pharmacist tag. I really didn't open this case for more argument. My intention was for stop the argument. I really don't like to see red caution on DT profile, especially if there is like The Pharmacist who have spend lots of time to prevent corruption. I have not found the point how he abuse trust system. No, I am not defending TP, also few point I am not agree with him. But I an also not fan of account seller. On the other hand iluvbitcoins also have not broke forum rules or he didn't attempt to scam. Even I don't know much about him but most likely he is a trusted person according to others DT feedback.

Regarding account sale, main problem is forum rules. Question is, if account sales allowed by forum then why need to tag? Is it really necessary? I have a simple answer although everyone will not agree with it. Answer is, most of account seller are scammer, they really don't have account for sale. Mostly they scam greedy peoples who is encourage to buy account. So its really need to tag them for warn buyers. Especially newbie account seller.

However noticed The Pharmacist have removed his feedback during writing time. So I think problem is almost solved. The Pharmacist did right thing I think by tag and by remove. I believe iluvbitcoins has learned from tag and he should also removed his feedback.

Why I agree both of TP decision? Because his tag will help iluvbitcoins to avoid this kind of actions. And there is multiple reason that I believe pharmacist should remove tag,
iluvbitcoins trusted by more than 7 DT and he win by voting on this thread. Most of people think iluvbitcoins still enough trusted. Add on DT2 network means more trusted. So considering all this issue TP took this decision. However I will not call him selfish. 

[utlptc]

The Pharmacist has removed the negative trust from iluvbitcoins. I appreciate that The Pharmacist has realized. But, why am I still neg tagged for the same accusation?
I was quite new in bitcointalk back in the day. I was not too much active then. I didn't know that for attempting to buy an account, I could get a red tagged. I really had no concerned about that because I knew that buying/selling accounts are allowed.
I had created a thread when I saw the neg tagged in my profile. Then Lauda had also tagged. Anyway, some days ago, when I saw Lauda was not in DT anymore, and somewhere I read that The Pharmacist had removed someone else neg tagged, I wrote him requesting to remove my neg tag. While he said I had not done anything trustworthy after the tag.
I just want to know, had I done anything which is not trustworthy before and after the neg tag? I request to reconsider my neg tag because I am not a scammer.
Thank you.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

<snip>

The only time I'll remove feedback I left for account sellers/buyers is after a significant amount of time has passed and the member has done something (usually gained trust feedbacks with valid references) that proves they're trustworthy.

In your case, you claim you were new but 6 months after registering on bitcointalk you were trying to buy accounts at a time when members were consistently being tagged for such--and you should have known better.  You haven't done anything in the 5 months since I left my feedback on you that would convince me to remove it.

This isn't the thread to appeal negs I've left, by the way.  PM me if you've met the above criteria.

[utlptc]

PM me if you've met the above criteria.

I had PMed you last week and you have blocked me.

Anyway, I would not PM you if I didn't face this statement. I never engaged in such activities after the red tag. Believe me or not. It's up to you. You said that having positive trust is an extra benefits for removing the tag. That's it.

Also keep in mind that if someone PMs me asking me to remove old feedback from account sales AND if they haven't engaged in it since the feedback, I'll usually remove the negative.

It's true that you gave me red tag after 5 months of my joining here. But I was not concerned that anyone can get negative trust for buying/selling accounts.

By the way, I apologize that I have posted it here.

Thank you.

[iluvbitcoins]

OP attempted to blackmail us into removing their ratings. We got tagged for not giving in. Any attempts at making their ratings appear under a real pretense is therefore void (actually makes them a even less trustworthy).

I still have the PMs from iluvbitcoins he sent me after I tagged him, and I can't speak for Lauda but iluvbitcoins didn't try to blackmail me into removing my feedback.  

You don't seem to have experienced with 'act-nice-blackmail', which this was.

Since you asked for opinions, I'll give you mine: From the moment I saw the red tag on OP, I thought it was a bit harsh.

OP is dishonest; there's nothing harsh here. Their behavior post-rejecting to obeying their requests proves that.

I'm not familiar with offering loans and accepting accounts as collateral, but would it be normal practice to take control of the staked address of the account they are getting as collateral for a loan?  I thought it was normally just the account login information provided?

I don't think so.

I have sent you 3 PMs.

1.http://prntscr.com/laujf6

Someone who speaks Croatian should say if there's any blackmail in it.

This is the simmilar english equivalent I've sent to The Pharmacist. Judge yourself is there's blackmail in it.

http://prntscr.com/laukmw

2.http://prntscr.com/laul0v
3.http://prntscr.com/laulcc

Translates to "You don't speak Croatian?" since he responded to my PM on english, although he spoke Croatian a year back.

I can stream my outbox if someone is willing to watch it in order to confirm this to be legitimate.

I don't think so.

Just seemed odd to me that iluvbitcoins would control the staked address of an account he is selling which was apparently acquired through a defaulted loan. I don't see any evidence that private keys or staked addresses were typically used as collateral in the past with accounts - as that would be stupid for the account owner. And I guess I don't understand why anyone would accept a loan from an account owner who is handing over their private keys?? (assuming they expect to be paid back)

The account didn't have a staked address when I got it as collateral, I staked one a year back or so when it was in my ownership.

@The Pharmacist

If I was a DT when I left it, I wouldn't have left it at all.
I appreciate you came through and removed yours.

[suchmoon]

If I was a DT when I left it, I wouldn't have left it at all.
I appreciate you came through and removed yours.

Your new rating for TP is almost as shit as the old one:

He's not an asshole : D

You should also prune your other ratings that have no references and/or were posted for ridiculous reasons, particularly positive ones for trades that had no risk on your part, e.g. "Sent me X BTC, I sent him Y PP" - your counterparty doesn't deserve green trust for that. If you do that again it will be equivalent to trust sale now that you're in DT.

[iluvbitcoins]

If I was a DT when I left it, I wouldn't have left it at all.
I appreciate you came through and removed yours.

Your new rating for TP is almost as shit as the old one:

He's not an asshole

You should also prune your other ratings that have no references and/or were posted for ridiculous reasons, particularly positive ones for trades that had no risk on your part, e.g. "Sent me X BTC, I sent him Y PP" - your counterparty doesn't deserve green trust for that. If you do that again it will be equivalent to trust sale now that you're in DT.

Uses retaliatory trust ratings and extensively posts trust ratings without references

I believe 'should not be trusted' for a person who has handled a million $ worth of assets without a single complaint about his services is an abuse of the trust system.

But since The Pharmacist hasn't been as rude and crazy as Lauda and has acknowleged his mistake, I have removed my feedback from his profile.

Also

"Sent me X BTC, I sent him Y PP"

PayPal is a reversible payment processor and such a trade includes risk of being scammed.
That's what the Trust system is FOR!
Not for opinions etc.

The "Not an asshole" tag was left before I realized I became a DT (I found out with my first post today)
It will be removed now.

[iluvbitcoins]

Oh the irony.

[suchmoon]

I believe 'should not be trusted' for a person who has handled a million $ worth of assets without a single complaint about his services is an abuse of the trust system.

What are you on about?

"Sent me X BTC, I sent him Y PP"

Is a trade.
PayPal is a reversible payment processor and such a trade includes risk of being scammed.
That's what the Trust system is FOR!
Not for opinions etc.

There was zero risk for you. The person who received your (now green by default) trust rating did not need to be trusted by you in that transaction. You're the one sending PayPal. The other person takes the risk and may decide to leave a positive rating for you.

Oh the irony.

Yes, a neutral. A post-it note on your account so that I would know who you are next time I meet you. Doesn't affect you in any way but if you want a reference - this thread.

Stop multiposting and clean yourself up.

[Lauda]

Someone who speaks Croatian should say if there's any blackmail in it.

The second you left an unjust negative rating after we did not accept your demand it turned into blackmail. Just because you wrapped it nicely into a sob-story doesn't mean that it actually wasn't. Actually, it makes it worse since it's deceptive. But what do I know.





The second one just happens to be a 3-post newbie, who also just happens to be an account seller. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[iluvbitcoins]

I believe 'should not be trusted' for a person who has handled a million $ worth of assets without a single complaint about his services is an abuse of the trust system.

What are you on about?

You just made a claim I left retaliatory feedback.
I explained why that's a lie.

"Sent me X BTC, I sent him Y PP"

Is a trade.
PayPal is a reversible payment processor and such a trade includes risk of being scammed.
That's what the Trust system is FOR!
Not for opinions etc.

There was zero risk for you. The person who received your (now green by default) trust rating did not need to be trusted by you in that transaction. You're the one sending PayPal. The other person takes the risk and may decide to leave a positive rating for you.

If it is an F&F transaction, there's still risk since in order to charge it back I'd need to claim my PayPal account was hacked, or there was an unauthorized access which if found to be false, could result in my account being limited.

I will revise all my feedback later today or tommorow, since as I said, I just found out about being DT.

[iluvbitcoins]

Someone who speaks Croatian should say if there's any blackmail in it.

The second you left an unjust negative rating after we did not accept your demand it turned into blackmail. Just because you wrapped it nicely into a sob-story doesn't mean that it actually wasn't. Actually, it makes it worse since it's deceptive. But what do I know.

The second one just happens to be a 3-post newbie, who also just happens to be an account seller. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You've found out about the 1st feedback I ever left!
It was yesterday? Nah, it was in 2014 when I was a Jr.Member!
It's not like I became DT today, so I had a chance to revise my Jr.Member feedbacks
I knew I was a DT for how long now? 10 minutes?
-----------

Ahh, yes.
A regular member blackmailes 2 DTs with untrusted feedback.
It is 'trust' and I found your feedback to be unjust and UNTRUE.

You have claimed I am not to be trusted, I found this to be COMPLETELY UNTRUE and therefore, I have left feedback on your account.
You have not only abused the trust system but also mismanaged 3000 BTC.

On yours, Lauda, I will never remove.

[suchmoon]

If it is an F&F transaction, there's still risk since in order to charge it back I'd need to claim my PayPal account was hacked, or there was an unauthorized access which if found to be false, could result in my account being limited.

I will revise all my feedback later today or tommorow, since as I said, I just found out about being DT.

You received BTC. You sent PayPal. What are you going to charge back?

Are you saying that you would falsely claim that your PayPal account was hacked in order to reverse the transaction?

Aren't we all glad that OgNasty dredged the swamp to find this particular creature  

[iluvbitcoins]

If it is an F&F transaction, there's still risk since in order to charge it back I'd need to claim my PayPal account was hacked, or there was an unauthorized access which if found to be false, could result in my account being limited.

I will revise all my feedback later today or tommorow, since as I said, I just found out about being DT.

You received BTC. You sent PayPal. What are you going to charge back?

Are you saying that you would claim that your PayPal account was hacked in order to reverse the transaction?

Aren't we all glad that OgNasty dredged the swamp to find this particular creature  

If I sent F&F first there is still risk in the transaction!
Since I need to claim unauthorized access in order to charge back if scammed and that easily results in account suspension if found out to be a lie.

Read first, be rude later.

[Lauda]

You've found out about the 1st feedback I ever left!

Why so defensive? I'm just pointing out a coincidence, i.e. that the first person you left feedback to is also an account seller.

It is 'trust' and I found your feedback to be unjust and UNTRUE.

You have claimed I am not to be trusted, I found this to be COMPLETELY UNTRUE and therefore, I have left feedback on your account.

No. My feedback is factually correct: You abused your ability to leave trust ratings. You tried to blackmail/coerce (whichever word is more suited; some people like arguing semantics) me with direct consequences when I didn't give in to the demand. Leaving retaliatory ratings because of false, subjective opinions is also a no-go.

You have not only abused the trust system but also mismanaged 3000 BTC.

Which is an objective lie, as it isn't mathematically possible[1].

On yours, Lauda, I will never remove.

No need; your behavior has turned criminal (slander, coercion, you pick it). I ain't no QS, thus I am not going to threaten you with a lawsuit nor am I going receive funds from TF for it.
[1] What would you know about mathematics, especially cryptography anyways.
[2] Suck up to a person or two, position an alt or three, do a deal or two for a trivial amount and you're almost there. Response to the wrong quote, still true though.