Post Gox - Is it time for a Bitcoin Code Authority and self-regulation?

[S4VV4S]

I must admit that I didn't even bother reading the OP.
Just the title was enough to say: NO

Let me say that again: NO

That is completely against the entire Bitcoin movement.

That is the very definition of the word prejudice -  making a determination on a matter without having reasonably sufficient info to draw a rational conclusion.

If the bitcoin movement is unsafe for worldwide consumption and only for a niche community then keep it to yourself, but if you want worldwide acceptance it must be safe.

So you are saying that Bitcoin should be regulated and controlled to make it "safe"?

[Idea_Atm23@]

My name is Idea AtM 23, Im CEO and Founder of. Celebrity Green Room. Bit coin in general is a no/super-fail! Btc makes no sense if you understand economics big picture. If any of you will google this info you can avoid the cheat: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/microsoft-programmed-in-nsa-backdoor-in-windows-by-1999.html
I told them long ago not to do Mt. Gox, him filing with US Regulators wasn't enough?, its bit coins right?!? Fact that those bit coins cant be excluded from market and new ones generated to repair client accounts is a very big deal, do they not know the bit coin info, there's only 22 mil btc should be an easy fix but they told clients it was missing/stolen and gave up so the loss stays a loss. Plenty of brite minds in btc Now with $480 mil missing Mt. Gox/he can and did file for bankruptcy ( kiss your money good buy , premeditated or not had your money been with Celebrity Green Room you would still have it and making another 30 mil annually in passive income. Btc has thousands of vulnerablilties, Celebrity Green Room is unhackable!, that means zero chance you can lose even a peso. Unless you know of another site where you cant lose any money and if site went down you can get your cash at local safety deposit boxes

[S4VV4S]

My name is Idea AtM 23, Im CEO and Founder of. Celebrity Green Room. Bit coin in general is a no/super-fail! Btc makes no sense if you understand economics big picture. If any of you will google this info you can avoid the cheat: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/microsoft-programmed-in-nsa-backdoor-in-windows-by-1999.html
I told them long ago not to do Mt. Gox, him filing with US Regulators wasn't enough?, its bit coins right?!? Fact that those bit coins cant be excluded from market and new ones generated to repair client accounts is a very big deal, do they not know the bit coin info, there's only 22 mil btc should be an easy fix but they told clients it was missing/stolen and gave up so the loss stays a loss. Plenty of brite minds in btc Now with $480 mil missing Mt. Gox/he can and did file for bankruptcy ( kiss your money good buy , premeditated or not had your money been with Celebrity Green Room you would still have it and making another 30 mil annually in passive income. Btc has thousands of vulnerablilties, Celebrity Green Room is unhackable!, that means zero chance you can lose even a peso. Unless you know of another site where you cant lose any money and if site went down you can get your cash at local safety deposit boxes

Wow, thanks for the info but I must say,
it is the first time that I have met a CEO that cannot spell properly.

It is bright, not brite!

Also, it is 21 millions not 22.

Thanks for stopping by.

[DooMAD]

Perhaps we should let history be our guide and look at creating a similar institution - a Bitcoin Code Authority under the trusted auspices of say the Bitcoin Foundation.

Thoughts everyone?

Trusted third parties are the reason people are suffering from Gox to begin with.

There are already plenty of ways for Bitcoin users to protect themselves.

You are better off starting a Bitcoin school to teach people how to protect themselves and drill into their head the possible repercussions of failing to protect themselves.

Thread should have ended after this post.  Concise and correct.

[darkmule]

That is the very definition of the word prejudice -  making a determination on a matter without having reasonably sufficient info to draw a rational conclusion.

Frankly, the proposal is antithetical to everything the Bitcoin community values.  It is like suggesting a synagogue raise money by holding an all you can eat pork BBQ.  It doesn't take long to reject it.  First, even if there were a way to impose a top-down solution on Bitcoin (how would this happen), nobody has even presented a proposal detailed enough to judge it.

The moment we're trusting some dictatorial authority instead of the protocol itself, we might as well just be trading Linden dollars or some wholly imaginary currency.

I think some consensus-based best practices might be in order, but you simply can't expect that everyone will accept even those, and as long as people insist on doing dumb things like leaving money on exchanges and "investing" in Ponzis, there's not much a central authority can do.  How are you going to stop Bitcoiners from doing whatever they please?  Guys with guns?

Let's leave that kind of thing to governments.

[pokerknave]

Cannot regulate a mathematical exercise but you can regulate buying and selling the mathematical solution. Just like you can regulate a football game but not the concept of a football game.

[Armis]

That is the very definition of the word prejudice -  making a determination on a matter without having reasonably sufficient info to draw a rational conclusion.

Frankly, the proposal is antithetical to everything the Bitcoin community values.  It is like suggesting a synagogue raise money by holding an all you can eat pork BBQ.  It doesn't take long to reject it.  First, even if there were a way to impose a top-down solution on Bitcoin (how would this happen), nobody has even presented a proposal detailed enough to judge it.

The moment we're trusting some dictatorial authority instead of the protocol itself, we might as well just be trading Linden dollars or some wholly imaginary currency.

I think some consensus-based best practices might be in order, but you simply can't expect that everyone will accept even those, and as long as people insist on doing dumb things like leaving money on exchanges and "investing" in Ponzis, there's not much a central authority can do.  How are you going to stop Bitcoiners from doing whatever they please?  Guys with guns?

Let's leave that kind of thing to governments.

It doesn't matter if Mt Gox was run by scammers working with viruses infected computers and the stupidest customers on earth, the btc protocol via the blockchain MUST enable us to find all of the funds that entered and left Mt Gox.   As such, this emergency isn't about Mt Gox, they were just the ones who pulled the alarm, this emergency is about the btc protocol working for the benefit of the btc society.  

If you can't find the "missing" money what is to stop all other exchanges from duplicating the disappearing btc trick over and over again?  If the protocol allows for this sort of thing, evidently it does, then the protocol must be changed, if the protocol cannot be changed then the service providers must change their ways of operation to make up for the short coming of the protocol.  

However the protocol can be changed, major security upgrades can be instituted and other responsible measure can be taken to secure accountable operation of the system.   But in addition to that, which might take lots of time, exchanges must now step-up and show themselves worth by proving solvency via blockchain, becoming community  certified, subscribe to high ethical standards, upgrade security features, and be bonded, insured and able to provide performance guarantees.

Otherwise the market value of btc will continue to sink to the level at which the market feels the btc experiment is worth, in less than a month it will be less than $100.   Now before you think that would be a great buying opportunity, THAT VALUE WILL NOT INCREASE ABOVE THE $100.   Without the trust the system cannot scale.

I've estimated that we have until the beginning of the summer, approx 1 mos to make something meaningful happen.  

The markets lost 30% because of Mt Gox, but it has lost another 30% because the missing money issue is real and can EASILY happen again.

It doesn't matter if your money is in cold storage, it will devalue where ever it stands $0 is $0 in all temperatures.

[Idea_Atm23@]

My name is Idea AtM 23, Im CEO and Founder of. Celebrity Green Room. Bit coin in general is a no/super-fail! Btc makes no sense if you understand economics big picture. If any of you will google this info you can avoid the cheat: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/microsoft-programmed-in-nsa-backdoor-in-windows-by-1999.html
I told them long ago not to do Mt. Gox, him filing with US Regulators wasn't enough?, its bit coins right?!? Fact that those bit coins cant be excluded from market and new ones generated to repair client accounts is a very big deal, do they not know the bit coin info, there's only 22 mil btc should be an easy fix but they told clients it was missing/stolen and gave up so the loss stays a loss. Plenty of brite minds in btc Now with $480 mil missing Mt. Gox/he can and did file for bankruptcy ( kiss your money good buy , premeditated or not had your money been with Celebrity Green Room you would still have it and making another 30 mil annually in passive income. Btc has thousands of vulnerablilties, Celebrity Green Room is unhackable!, that means zero chance you can lose even a peso. Unless you know of another site where you cant lose any money and if site went down you can get your cash at local safety deposit boxes

Wow, thanks for the info but I must say,
it is the first time that I have met a CEO that cannot spell properly.

It is bright, not brite!

Also, it is 21 millions not 22.

Thanks for stopping bye


Sure, i need an editor, im too lazy. heres my fb so u can make good use of ur gammar nazi hobby, sorry too busy developing life saving tech, you understand   https://m.facebook.com/nate.hill23

[MPOE-PR]

OP: There already exists such authority. You can talk to him in #bitcoin-assets.

[grifferz]

Sure, i need an editor, im too lazy.

Awesome, I look forward to seeing you on the cover of Time.

[teukon]

If you can't find the "missing" money what is to stop all other exchanges from duplicating the disappearing btc trick over and over again?

Nothing stops an exchange from doing this, but such an act will trash its reputation and therefore reduce its profit potential.  This mechanic is sufficient to eventually bring the probability of such an event down to a level that customers are happy with on balance.

This mechanic is also useful in lowering the barrier to entry for competing exchanges.

[BruceFenton]

A common set of standards and checklists easily verifiable would be better than a central authority.

[exocytosis]

Nothing stops an exchange from doing this, but such an act will trash its reputation and therefore reduce its profit potential.  This mechanic is sufficient to eventually bring the probability of such an event down to a level that customers are happy with on balance.

Nope. Now that other exchange owners notice that Mark Karpeles is getting away with his massive theft, they'll have every incentive to replicate that theft. And they'll do so. Repeatedly. And they'll use the same type of lame excuse as Karpeles and his defenders have used, i.e. that hackers and/or the US Gov. stole all the BTC and the fiat. And that they're under a gag order, etc.

[Armis]

If you can't find the "missing" money what is to stop all other exchanges from duplicating the disappearing btc trick over and over again?

Nothing stops an exchange from doing this, but such an act will trash its reputation and therefore reduce its profit potential.  This mechanic is sufficient to eventually bring the probability of such an event down to a level that customers are happy with on balance.

This mechanic is also useful in lowering the barrier to entry for competing exchanges.

Reputation?  If they take a couple hundred million over 2 yrs, they won't give a F about reputation.  

Nevertheless, that is NOT the issue, the issue is that they can take it if they want to, that ability must be "balanced" with 'checks and balance', certifications, guarantees, audits, financial security, electronic security, protocol security, transparency, and accountability so as to minimize the possibility of that happening.

take a look at this: https://bitcoinaverage.com/markets.htm#USD, http://coinmarketcap.com/ ignored secific exchanges from their btc avg because of the following:

btctrade   volume data suspect
coinbase   volume data not published
mtgox   withdrawals blocked
okcoin   volume data suspect


There is no market "barrier" for integrity, accountability, transparency, and financial security  - if you are only worth 2 btc, then only say you are worth 2btc, only show 2btc, and secure that 2btc with all of your might; allow the blockchain to show your name for incoming/outgoing funds this make it easier for everyone to track your performance, and to trace things.  

[DooMAD]

It doesn't matter if Mt Gox was run by scammers working with viruses infected computers and the stupidest customers on earth, the btc protocol via the blockchain MUST enable us to find all of the funds that entered and left Mt Gox.   As such, this emergency isn't about Mt Gox, they were just the ones who pulled the alarm, this emergency is about the btc protocol working for the benefit of the btc society.  

If you can't find the "missing" money what is to stop all other exchanges from duplicating the disappearing btc trick over and over again?  If the protocol allows for this sort of thing, evidently it does, then the protocol must be changed, if the protocol cannot be changed then the service providers must change their ways of operation to make up for the short coming of the protocol.  

However the protocol can be changed, major security upgrades can be instituted and other responsible measure can be taken to secure accountable operation of the system.   But in addition to that, which might take lots of time, exchanges must now step-up and show themselves worth by proving solvency via blockchain, becoming community  certified, subscribe to high ethical standards, upgrade security features, and be bonded, insured and able to provide performance guarantees.

Otherwise the market value of btc will continue to sink to the level at which the market feels the btc experiment is worth, in less than a month it will be less than $100.   Now before you think that would be a great buying opportunity, THAT VALUE WILL NOT INCREASE ABOVE THE $100.   Without the trust the system cannot scale.

I've estimated that we have until the beginning of the summer, approx 1 mos to make something meaningful happen.  

The markets lost 30% because of Mt Gox, but it has lost another 30% because the missing money issue is real and can EASILY happen again.

It doesn't matter if your money is in cold storage, it will devalue where ever it stands $0 is $0 in all temperatures.

This is the kind of fundamental misunderstanding that needs to be corrected.  

Hats are designed to be worn on your head.  If you wear them on your foot and they don't work correctly, there isn't a fault with the way the hat is designed, there a fault with you not using it as intended.

Bitcoin is designed as peer-to-peer money.  One Sender and one Recipient.  If you leave someone else in charge of your coins, there isn't a fault with the way Bitcoin is designed, there a fault with you not using it as intended.

If someone was standing on a street corner with a glass box full of money and they said they'd look after your cash for you, and you were stupid enough to put your money in the box and find that they are not there the following day, is that a fault with the way money is designed?  Or is that a fault with you being reckless and naive?

Exchanges should never have become as popular as they are in the first place.  People just need to learn the difference between the fiat money world and the digital world.  Exchanges are not banks and you should not trust them, or anyone else, to look after your money for you.  Use it properly and you won't get burned.

[Lethn]

Bitcoin itself hasn't ever had major problems, it's always been the people who use it and that's something that regulation won't ever solve.

MTGOX - A corrupt organisation that decided to take the money and run, this happens in all economies, any of us who were in the know avoided MTGOX because of all the problems they were having prior to declaring bankruptcy

People getting their wallets hacked - That's the fault of people who refuse to listen to the constant warnings about using online wallets

People getting virus'/keyloggers which hijack their PC - This has been a problem since the internet first began, people will continue to ignore warnings about this no matter what economy we're in

People getting scammed - Even I have gone out of my way to warn people about internet scammers and people I've identified as potential scammers yet they still ignore it and get scammed

Child Pornography - This is just another pile of bullshit invented by media outlets to attack Bitcoin, no, I'm not denying that some people won't use Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies to buy child pornography but this kind of argument is exactly the same sort of argument that people use against homosexuals by saying that they're child molesters etc. etc. there's no need for 'more' regulation because there are already laws against child pornography

In a simple response, you can't regulate other peoples' stupidity, these problems will exist no matter how much regulation you put in.

[mami]

Already we are seeing pro crowd individuals and companies reaching out to government almost begging for Bitcoin regulation.

Because they stand to profit - for example, Vessenes was slobbering over the chance to run the only "government approved" exchange.

Has the US government done a good job regulating financial companies for the last 20 years?  NO - they've simply printed more money for Goldman Sachs, one of the biggest thieves in the world! What makes you think that they would like to "legitimize" bitcoin? They want to BURY it under a mountain of bureaucracy and fees! 15 years ago, Paypal started off trying to do what Bitcoin is doing, look where they ended up...

They are convinced that the legitimacy that would come from it would better allow Bitcoin to spread and support whatever business model they happen to believe in as well as other social benefits to prevent the abuse of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin has plenty of legitimacy amongst people who UNDERSTAND how tenuous the global financial system really has become.

[teukon]

Nothing stops an exchange from doing this, but such an act will trash its reputation and therefore reduce its profit potential.  This mechanic is sufficient to eventually bring the probability of such an event down to a level that customers are happy with on balance.

Nope. Now that other exchange owners notice that Mark Karpeles is getting away with his massive theft, they'll have every incentive to replicate that theft. And they'll do so. Repeatedly. And they'll use the same type of lame excuse as Karpeles and his defenders have used, i.e. that hackers and/or the US Gov. stole all the BTC and the fiat. And that they're under a gag order, etc.

If the owners of an exchange are being trusted with more wealth than their reputation is worth then they likely will.  The idea of feigning a hack or bug and running with the money is not new.

I agree that this can happen repeatedly, but argue that the frequency of such events will decrease as people become wary of trusting large amounts of money to highly indebted entities with little reputation.

Nothing stops an exchange from doing this, but such an act will trash its reputation and therefore reduce its profit potential.  This mechanic is sufficient to eventually bring the probability of such an event down to a level that customers are happy with on balance.

This mechanic is also useful in lowering the barrier to entry for competing exchanges.

Reputation?  If they take a couple hundred million over 2 yrs, they won't give a F about reputation.  

Yes.  This highlights what can happen when people trust more money to an entity than its reputation is worth.

On the flip side of the coin, imagine I trust Gavin Andresen to hold 0.01 BTC for a week.  He certainly has an incentive to steal that money; He'd be destroying his reputation, but would be up 0.01 BTC!  I hope you can appreciate that this is not in Gavin's best interest; his reputation is worth much more than 0.01 BTC.

Nevertheless, that is NOT the issue, the issue is that they can take it if they want to, that ability must be "balanced" with 'checks and balance', certifications, guarantees, audits, financial security, electronic security, protocol security, transparency, and accountability so as to minimize the possibility of that happening.

You're simply asserting that regulations are the only thing that can "minimize the possibility of this happening".  I'm describing a regulation-free mechanism that I claim would have precisely this effect.

There is no market "barrier" for integrity, accountability, transparency, and financial security  - if you are only worth 2 btc, then only say you are worth 2btc, only show 2btc, and secure that 2btc with all of your might; allow the blockchain to show your name for incoming/outgoing funds this make it easier for everyone to track your performance, and to trace things.

Certainly, these tactics all boost a newcomers trustworthiness (at the expense of extra work).  I have no problem with an exchange experimenting with such things.  If people eventually tire of having their money stolen, then doubtless such exchanges will have an advantage.  If not, exchanges designed to steal people's money will continue to dominate.

[Idea_Atm23@]

Perhaps we should let history be our guide and look at creating a similar institution - a Bitcoin Code Authority under the trusted auspices of say the Bitcoin Foundation.

Thoughts everyone?

Trusted third parties are the reason people are suffering from Gox to begin with.

There are already plenty of ways for Bitcoin users to protect themselves.

You are better off starting a Bitcoin school to teach people how to protect themselves and drill into their head the possible repercussions of failing to protect themselves.

Thread should have ended after this post.  Concise and correct.

Not sure if you read the comments in this thread, but i posted a link that shows the NSA has back door access to Windows Laptops/devices, so how can ppl silly enough to use windows going protect their btc from them or hackers on that level??? YOU'RE GETTING ALL THE BTC NUMBERS THRU YOUR 'WINDOWS' DEVICE! Even if this wasn't the case, not being able to fix electronic money makes no sense. You could simply reset the market size down to the unstolen btc, that would effectively freeze out stolen coins, Exchange that get hacked can use a digital miner to restore customer accounts, litecoin or dif crypto currency. Common sense would dictate imitating the strengths and safe gaurds of current monetary systems, or be ok with losing it. At Celebrity Green Room our first conversation with customers is how safe thier money is, how impossible it is to lose because it never leaves thier account til we see them on live camera. Compare that for a second, do you want unsecure, difficult to use digital currency that can easily be stolen or would you rather just use your face everywhere YOU go, no ID or cards needed. Easy money easy life, hard money hard life

[Bit_Happy]

The ease at which wallets can be hacked and or stolen as apposed to cracking the bitcoin algorithm, is a disparity yet to be addressed.  If Bitcoins were never sold but belong permanently to individuals, and enjoined by a genome dna code,  they might in the longterm be used as chattels for cash rather than sold, Providing the value of btc rose at a greater rate than the amount chattelled. 

The uncrackable nature of bitcoins is only going to last a very short amount of time.  looksee: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/04/26/tiny-crystal-may-hold-key-to-future-computers/  read it and weep.  This 300 atom * 1 atom will solve and crack the bitcoin alg, in seconds once it is set up and aimed at the naughty bitcoin opps.  They have 9 months start so no need to hold your breath...it's moments away.

The link said 10 to 20 years.