Electrum Bitcoin Received/Sent Date And Time Question

[jerry0]

Hi all got a question.  I use to use electrum a lot to send/receive btc.  Many times i would for example request btc from a site... thus i withdraw a usd amount from there and then they send me the btc equivalent to my electrum wallet.  Then once i have that btc, i would send that btc to another site... which would be converted into fiat.



So example back then if i needed say 0.5 btc, i request btc from a site, they give me around 0.5 btc.  Then once i see it shown in my electrum wallet, the description would show as received but it was not added to my balance correct?  First off, can someone tell me what is shown on the electrum wallet when this happens?  The word isn't pending but i don't recall the word it used.  I haven't used electrum in a while.  Also i would then send btc from my wallet to another site.  Let say back then i did this with 0.5 btc and i had say 1 btc in my wallet back then.  So when i request the btc... i would then have around 1.5 btc total in my wallet.  I would be waiting for btc to show up in my wallet... then i take that 0.5 btc and send it to another site.  Thus im trying to move btc from one site to another but holding my 1 btc in my wallet without touching it per say.  What i want to know with electrum is... when i receive the btc in my wallet, it takes several confirmations before it gets added to my current btc balance right?  The other thing is i recalled when it show up in my wallet, it didn't show the exact date and time because it did not have enough confirmations right?  But then let say i would then send 0.5 btc to another site because it did show i received 0.5 btc.  



Now the big question i have is this.  Is it possible for the btc i requested and received but did not have confirmations... to show up hours later on in my electrum history?  Thus say i request 0.5 btc from a site.  They send it to me and it does show it as received but not added to my btc balance on electrum.  I know it take many confirmations.  Now i transfer 0.5 btc from my wallet to another site.  So at the end, i would have around 1 btc in my wallet when everything goes through.  Is it possible when i check my electrum wallet later on, that it shows the btc that i received... it might show it as a transaction hours later or even the next day?  But the btc that i sent to another site... it is dated earlier?  



Thus imagine i requested btc at 6pm.  The site sent me btc and it shows it hitting my electrum wallet at 6:30pm.  Now i send the 0.5 btc to another site at say 7pm and well both transactions seem to take a while.  But i'm not concerned because i still have 1 btc in my wallet in case the 0.5 btc didn't confirm first etc.



Is it possible for it to show in my electrum wallet... i sent btc to another site on that night at 9pm?  But the btc that i requested earlier and did show hit my wallet at 6:30pm but had no confirmations... to show up in my wallet the following day say in the morning or even afternoon?  


Thus it should be dated like this if bitcoin received/sent was instant but it isn't



Monday  6:30pm  btc received 0.5 btc
Monday  7:00pm  sent 0.5 btc



But instead it shows like this on my electrum wallet when i had supposedly received the btc on Monday at 6:30pm and sent the btc to another site at 7:00pm


Monday  9:00pm sent 0.5btc
Tuesday 3:00pm  received 0.5btc



I ask this because im looking at previous transactions i did a long time ago where i would request btc from a site... so i could send the btc to another site.  And i notice many times, the amount of btc i requested and sent... few times i sent that amount of btc first to another site as oppose to receiving it first.  So the reason is because of the electrum confirmations?

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[Abdussamad]

The timestamp is from the blockchain i.e. when the transaction was first incorporated in a block which is also called the first confirmation. The timestamp is from the block header which is added by the miner and may be up to two hours off from the actual time. So basically it's not very accurate.

Also I suggest looking at the history tab for transaction status and not the receive tab. The receive tab is just for getting addresses and setting a description for them at the same time.

[jerry0]

Hi i am looking at the history tab... not looking at the receive tab.


So say it looks like this where according to the date in the history, it shows me sending btc first... then receiving btc the next day.  But im pretty positive i had received the btc first... before sending to another site... thus it did show as received in my wallet, before i sent in the btc but it was not confirmed.  So it look something like this on my electrum wallet


feb 1   2pm  sent 0.20 btc
 
feb 1    2:30pm  sent 0.30 btc


feb 2   3pm received 0.20 btc

feb 2   3:30pm received 0.30 btc




So even though it looks like this, well its possible i received the btc on feb 1 right thus before i sent the 0.20 btc and 0.30 btc?  Because i usually almost always wait till i receive the btc first, before i send the btc to another site. 


So the timestamp that is shown on the history is the first confirmation right? 


So on electrum, it doesn't show the date and time of when i received the btc to my wallet but have 0 confirmations?

[Abdussamad]

Yes it's possible. If the sender didn't pay a good enough fee the transaction might have taken a long time to confirm.

Why don't you look up the transaction ID on a block explorer like blockchain.info to see when the transaction confirmed? You can find the tx id by right clicking on the transaction on the history tab and choosing to view details.

Why does the time of the transaction matter so much? If this is about tracking who sent you how much money the way to do that is to hand out different receive addresses to different people or organizations and make a note of it in your wallet out i.e. put a description on the receive tab and save it. This way you will know who sent you how much.

[jerry0]

Hi there.  I checked it... but isn't when the transaction confirmed going to be the same time as what is shown in my electrum wallet?  I saw this for a lot of them.


Well actually because many times i would want to send btc to another site... but i did not want to touch any btc in my wallet... thus imagine back then when btc wasn't much i would request 0.5 btc from a site.  I then want to send that 0.5 btc to another site.  That site would take a bit and then send me the 0.5 btc.  I recalled when i looked at wallet, it would show that 0.5 btc added but not confirmed.  If that is the case well i technically still received it at that time right?  Because once it show like 0.5 btc received unconfirmed, its just you dont know how long it would take to confirm but you received it?

[Abdussamad]

Hi there.  I checked it... but isn't when the transaction confirmed going to be the same time as what is shown in my electrum wallet?  I saw this for a lot of them.


Well actually because many times i would want to send btc to another site... but i did not want to touch any btc in my wallet... thus imagine back then when btc wasn't much i would request 0.5 btc from a site.  I then want to send that 0.5 btc to another site.  That site would take a bit and then send me the 0.5 btc.  I recalled when i looked at wallet, it would show that 0.5 btc added but not confirmed.  If that is the case well i technically still received it at that time right?  Because once it show like 0.5 btc received unconfirmed, its just you dont know how long it would take to confirm but you received it?

The transaction hasn't "cleared" until it is incorporated in the blockchain and a sufficient number of additional blocks have been added in front of the block with your transaction i.e. it has been sufficiently buried in the chain that no one can reverse the transaction in future. Confirmations are how we measure this. First confirmation means it's been included in a block. Second means an additional block with other transactions has been added to the chain in front of the one with your transaction.  3rd means one more block and so on. 6 confirmations is considered irreversible although electrum being an SPV wallet that bar has to be set higher. Maybe 20 confirmations.

On average a block is added to the chain every 10 minutes so 6 confirms = 60 minutes on average.

So depending on your risk appetite you may want to wait between 3 and 20 confirmations before you consider a transaction settled. 3 confirmations may suffice for small transactions. 20 for really large ones.

You can spend unconfirmed coins. In electrum there is the option tools > preferences > transactions tab that let you spend unconfirmed coins. There is nothing preventing this. However your transaction will not confirm until the parent transaction where the source coins came from does.

[jerry0]

Hi thanks.  So when you do receive the coins in your electrum wallet but it shows unconfirmed... well you technically have received the coins right?  Thus even if it shows hours later etc?

[pooya87]

Hi thanks.  So when you do receive the coins in your electrum wallet but it shows unconfirmed... well you technically have received the coins right?  Thus even if it shows hours later etc?

when a transaction is not confirmed it means it is not yet finalized. in other words as long as the transaction is  not included in a block it can change. for example the person sending you the coins can perform a double spend and get that secondary transaction confirmed faster effectively invalidating the first one that he sent you.

[bob123]

So when you do receive the coins in your electrum wallet but it shows unconfirmed... well you technically have received the coins right?  Thus even if it shows hours later etc?

This fully depends on how you define 'received'.

With 0 confirmation, the sender has given the 'order' to 'credit' you the coins. But the whole process is not finished yet.
The sender still can 'cancel' the transaction (in terms of maliciously double spending).

Only after a miner has included your transaction into a block, it is 'inside of the blockchain' and therefore finalized.
You should always wait for at least one confirmation (depending on the value of the transaction) to regard the TX as finalized.


So, technically you have only received them if you can actually spend them (which is the case with 1+ confirmations).

[HCP]

Well actually because many times i would want to send btc to another site... but i did not want to touch any btc in my wallet...

Also, unless you manually selecting which UTXOs you are spending using the coin-control features in Electrum... chances are that you are in fact "touching" the btc that is already in your wallet.

As the others have noted... just because a transaction shows in your Electrum, it does NOT mean that it has confirmed. If you have an icon of 3 little gears, then the transaction has been broadcast, but is unconfirmed. If the icon is the little clock, then it has at least 1 confirmation but less than 6 confirmations. When it has 6+ confirmations, it will be the green tick.

[stomachgrowls]

Hi thanks.  So when you do receive the coins in your electrum wallet but it shows unconfirmed... well you technically have received the coins right?  Thus even if it shows hours later etc?

Usually your when you receive bitcoin came from other wallet then it would really show up unconfirmed transaction and all the indicators is already being mentioned above which is accurate.
The thing i do only observed on Electrum is when that incoming transaction havent still completed or confirmed it do already add up on the balance directly.