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Author Topic: Freebitco.in provably cheating  (Read 25007 times)
pangolier88 (OP)
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October 06, 2018, 11:28:08 PM
Merited by LoyceV (5)
 #1

I'm talking about the free roll game.
Their system is provably fair, of course, but who's so stupid to save and check all the hash of every free roll? Me
My day job allow me to work on a computer so i'm able to roll about 14 - 15 times a day.
However, over the last months i managed to collect about 3000 free rolls, thanks to a script i managed to save every server seed hash, client seed and nonce right before and right after every roll, so i could check them later.

Most of them are fine, but 2 times happened that, after the roll, server seed hash was REPLACED with a new one, while nonce and client seed where still the same. This completely break their fairness, since replacing the server seed hash means that they are replacing the server seed and therefore they are changing our rolled number. Roll Eyes

Server seed hash never change unless you roll. you can reload the page, logout and login and it would be still the same.
I'm fully aware of freebitco.in's thread where people post their big wins.
Since the highest number i got was 9993 and since i never deposited any satoshi, my guess is that they apply this cheat just for the first 3 prizes (so from number 9994 to 10000) only to people who have never deposited anything.
I say so also because probability to win one of the first 3 prizes is roughly 6 on 10000, so 2 on 3333 on average and this cheat happened 2 times over 3000, quite similiar to their big win probability.

If freebitco.in want to follow this behavior to discourage people like me who just play free rolls and never deposit, that's totally fine but they should atleast be honest with their users and it should be written somewhere
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October 06, 2018, 11:43:17 PM
 #2

You posting a lot of claims but not enough proof.

"they did this they did that"

Its your word against theirs right now, and tbh I trust them more since they are in business so long.

Without any actual prove, you just sound like the other people who lost btc on their site.
pangolier88 (OP)
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October 06, 2018, 11:53:59 PM
 #3

You posting a lot of claims but not enough proof.

"they did this they did that"

Its your word against theirs right now, and tbh I trust them more since they are in business so long.

Without any actual prove, you just sound like the other people who lost btc on their site.

i did not lost anything since i deposited anything and im not even mad at them, they should be atleast honest
i repeat, i recorded over 3000 server seed hash and 2 of them did not match

how can i prove it? i just have a list server seed, hash, client and nonce but even if i provide it to you, will you believe me? you could say that i just generated them on a txt file
it's not demonstrable unless you video record over 3000 free rolls, which of course i did not.

i encourage anyone to start saving their server hash before and after any rolls.
if you want i can even provide you the same script i used to automatically save them on file and check them
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October 07, 2018, 12:31:52 AM
 #4

You only need to record a few in a row until you hit the hash on which they cheat?
Just download OBS, and record whenever you free roll.
If you are right you are onto something big, big enough it is worth to effort to record a free roll.
Not worth it on my part to check it because I believe they dont cheat with the free roll, and honestly free coins is free coins to me.
Might be a bad way to look at it but I dont put too much effort into clicking on that site anyway. Its a once a hour set and forget kinda thing.
Alexa ale
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October 07, 2018, 05:40:55 AM
 #5

Is that really true that the server seed hash changed? Actually I never observed this. I have played a lot there though never get high price. But I remember that I have rolled 10000 number two times in multiply game not in free hourly roll.
pangolier88 (OP)
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October 07, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
 #6

Is that really true that the server seed hash changed? Actually I never observed this. I have played a lot there though never get high price. But I remember that I have rolled 10000 number two times in multiply game not in free hourly roll.

It is true, i recorded 2 totally different 64 characters long hash, not just some buggy empty hash, i'm truly sure it's not an error on my side
It may be a bug on their side but it's pretty suspect
Well rolling a higher number in multiply game is not so important.
Plus, i blieve that the multiply game is probably fair since they have a decent house edge (5%) although i did not checked yet

You only need to record a few in a row until you hit the hash on which they cheat?
Just download OBS, and record whenever you free roll.
If you are right you are onto something big, big enough it is worth to effort to record a free roll.
Not worth it on my part to check it because I believe they dont cheat with the free roll, and honestly free coins is free coins to me.
Might be a bad way to look at it but I dont put too much effort into clicking on that site anyway. Its a once a hour set and forget kinda thing.

Not worth on my part neither, nobody pays me lol.
Like you said, i just have 30 sec to waste every hour to free roll, not more.
It would be better if done in group, this way it could be resolved in a couple of days
Alexa ale
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October 07, 2018, 10:15:33 AM
 #7

Is that really true that the server seed hash changed? Actually I never observed this. I have played a lot there though never get high price. But I remember that I have rolled 10000 number two times in multiply game not in free hourly roll.

It is true, i recorded 2 totally different 64 characters long hash, not just some buggy empty hash, i'm truly sure it's not an error on my side
It may be a bug on their side but it's pretty suspect
Well rolling a higher number in multiply game is not so important.
Plus, i blieve that the multiply game is probably fair since they have a decent house edge (5%) although i did not checked yet

You only need to record a few in a row until you hit the hash on which they cheat?
Just download OBS, and record whenever you free roll.
If you are right you are onto something big, big enough it is worth to effort to record a free roll.
Not worth it on my part to check it because I believe they dont cheat with the free roll, and honestly free coins is free coins to me.
Might be a bad way to look at it but I dont put too much effort into clicking on that site anyway. Its a once a hour set and forget kinda thing.

Not worth on my part neither, nobody pays me lol.
Like you said, i just have 30 sec to waste every hour to free roll, not more.
It would be better if done in group, this way it could be resolved in a couple of days

If you found bug really and have enough proofs tell admin about it. If they get it clearly a bug they might solve it and you will be rewarded I guess. Cause freebitco isn't a scam or cheat website. There is actually one thing problematic and that is 5% house edge.
pangolier88 (OP)
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October 07, 2018, 11:04:43 AM
 #8


If you found bug really and have enough proofs tell admin about it. If they get it clearly a bug they might solve it and you will be rewarded I guess. Cause freebitco isn't a scam or cheat website. There is actually one thing problematic and that is 5% house edge.


I don't know if it's a bug or it was made on purpose to reward only member who deposit (it's just my guess uh)
I thought the site was completely fair too, but i can't explain those 2 different hashes in no other ways
It's better to wait the answer of an admin from freebitcoin
LTU_btc
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October 09, 2018, 08:23:59 PM
 #9

Interesting. It would be interesting to hear statement from wetsuit or TheQuin. I don't want to believe that they are trying to discourage users from playing free roll by replacing server seed hashes. Then it would simplier just to remove words "provably fair" from their faucet. I hope it's just a bug.

pangolier88 (OP)
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October 09, 2018, 08:57:49 PM
 #10

I don't want to believe that they are trying to discourage users from playing free roll by replacing server seed hashes.

I think they just want to discourage users who doesn't deposit at all because they are not bringing any money to the site

Btw i just deposited a decent amount of satoshis and i started to free roll every hour, recording hashes as usual, let's see if it's still "bugged"
tiggytomb
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October 09, 2018, 09:07:30 PM
 #11

I would suggest reaching out to them and inform them of your findings and their response will tell you if they are being sly or if it is a genuine bug.  They have so far seemed legitimate and one of the longest faucets around, I hope it's a bug they're unaware of.
Triple_S
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November 10, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
 #12

Hmm, this sounds interesting, but I don't want to just believe you.
I have set up a small script now which automatically compares and records the hashes before and after the roll.
If the phenomena is a s rare as you say it will take some time til I get a result.

Pure probability and statistic laws say that 14.5 out of 10000 results gives you one of the 4 highes winning classes which means on average every 700th roll will be of one of this classes.
I rolled now about 3300 times and had 3 results in these classes. On average I should have had 4.7 which is pretty close.
Statistically it could just be bad luck, but I'm curious what my recors say after another 1000 or more rolls.
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November 18, 2018, 07:37:08 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #13

Ok, I was not believing it in the first place, but I noticed the same thing using my script.
I was rolling a lot the last several days to finally cash in all my reward points with 1000% boni.

Today around 5:42 UTC I rolled and the script alerted me!
The hash of the server seed before the roll was "e0dae012326019db972797e41a3edee109d0b9c8859c704ac9f984fcb3251729".
After the roll the hash of the pervious server seed was "81c07a9aba1b10da9a757d339a3e05a5cb7466d13c0c8abf3e72bb3b9f85aa7e".

It is obvious that the server seed hash changed and therefore also the server seed changed and the result of the roll changed!
The server seed of the second hash is "7d65304764de4888be843be666980845aa129f8b95eb490e66aa42017b080eb0".
My client seed was "21aeb50085fe13a3e35f1052acb0f91fdeab588264f2fc64462fd071b0fcae6e".
The nonce of the roll was 3658.
This leads to a 1507 being rolled (https://s3.amazonaws.com/roll-verifier/verify.html?server_seed=7d65304764de4888be843be666980845aa129f8b95eb490e66aa42017b080eb0&client_seed=21aeb50085fe13a3e35f1052acb0f91fdeab588264f2fc64462fd071b0fcae6e&server_seed_hash=81c07a9aba1b10da9a757d339a3e05a5cb7466d13c0c8abf3e72bb3b9f85aa7e&nonce=3658)

I will definitly report this to TheQuin and ask him about the server seed of the first hash, because what I really want to know now is what the result would have been with the real server seed!

I know that there is no way prooving that I did not fake these numbers, but I cannot think of a way to do so.
I attach an pdf with all the hashs recorded by my script to this post, so that you can see I actually recorded them. The upper ones are the most recent ones and the changed ones are marked red.

The link to the pdf: https://docdro.id/gROgDL2
pangolier88 (OP)
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December 06, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
 #14

Sorry i noticed your message only today.
I did the exact same thing you did, saving every hashes.
Unfortunately, we cannot really prove anything because "everyone can fake those numbers"
TheQuin answered to you? He just ignored me lol
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December 08, 2018, 12:29:58 PM
Last edit: January 03, 2019, 04:13:20 PM by LoyceV
 #15

You should probably move (bottom-left) this to Scam Accusations.

I've often wondered if they're legit, based on the average cost per faucet claim:
1 number pays $200
2 numbers pay $20
4 numbers pay $2
8 numbers pay $0.20
100 numbers pay $0.02
9886 numbers pay $0.002

I've always wanted to know if they really pay $271.37 on average for 10000 rolls. And if so, why don't they just pay $0.027 for each roll? They'd have the highest paying faucet, while it would cost them the same amount in total.
Because they choose not to pay the average amount for each roll, but made it a jackpot system, cheating would be possible and largely go unnoticed. Especially if they only cheat once every few thousand rolls.

Based on the odds, I would expect one $200 winner for every 2 $20 winners.
I did a (manual) count on pages 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 on Big wins at FreeBitco.in:
I just won $20 at FreeBitco.in! 116 times
I just won $200 at FreeBitco.in! 2 times
I probably miscounted a bit, but let's round it down: winning $200 is 50 times less likely than winning $20, and that makes the difference 25 12.5 times larger than it should be.

pangolier88 (OP)
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December 09, 2018, 03:58:33 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #16

I have to point out that the first prize have a winning chance of 1 every 20.000 and not 10.000 because of the way the mechanics are made (every number below 9999,5 gets rounded to 9999).
Anyway the difference is still larger, 12.5 times, than it should be so this is another proof against them
Thanx for you manual counting lol
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December 09, 2018, 08:58:47 PM
 #17

sooo they claim to have 17 million users

sooo if they have daily active 100k users which make at least 1 free rolls they should pay minimum 2.000 USD  daily + other rewards which are quite significant in long run



sooooooo im pretty sure that no one will give away 2k USD every day totally almost free


even if you earn quite a lot from multiplier game  2k  every day + other rewards are too good to be true



especially in bitcoin world Smiley heh Wink
Chris314
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December 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM
 #18

For me, 7631 free rolls played, and best number i got is 9988. If numbers have the same probability, I should draw 9994 or higher 6*7631/10000=4 times already.
It's obvious, as said earlier, that all numbers don't have the same probability of being drawn, and I think it has something to do with the calculation method.
I precise I've deposited on the site (i have no more captcha).

Provably fair means, for them, that you can check the way number is calculated. But the calculation isn't just a rnd()*10000 formula, but is much more complex, so that no one can prove it's made to draw mainly 0-9984 numbers.

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December 26, 2018, 04:20:43 PM
 #19

For me, 7631 free rolls played, and best number i got is 9988. If numbers have the same probability, I should draw 9994 or higher 6*7631/10000=4 times already.
It's obvious, as said earlier, that all numbers don't have the same probability of being drawn, and I think it has something to do with the calculation method.
I precise I've deposited on the site (i have no more captcha).

Provably fair means, for them, that you can check the way number is calculated. But the calculation isn't just a rnd()*10000 formula, but is much more complex, so that no one can prove it's made to draw mainly 0-9984 numbers.

This is not how it works.
If you have 7631 rolls, then every time you have a 6/9999 times to hit 9994-9999, the expedition is a different thing.
It's a complex calculation from variance and expectation value, you can find more info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance.

This is the reason why someone is lucky on variance and win the lottery with 1 ticket and someone with millions of tickets, never wins.
Just only because it's improbable it doesn't mean if you will roll the coin 50 times you will not have 50 times head.

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December 27, 2018, 06:04:34 PM
Last edit: December 27, 2018, 06:45:19 PM by broke_tradah
Merited by allyouracid (2), LoyceV (1)
 #20

Disregard all the trolls saying that you were "Unlucky" or that your seed weirdness was "just a bug".  I have undeniable proof that the server seeds ARE changed.  I,  like you have compiled a MASSIVE db of free rolls and my screenshots speak for themselves.  You dont even need the verify links to see that the seeds DO change and I can even tell you for which rolls that they WILL change.  It's for any roll ABOVE 9993 as seen in my screenshots below.  This has been documented for YEARS but no one ever believes it because they are to stupid to realize that humans ARE indeed complete assholes and will cheat you every chance they get.  The reason you are seeing these server seeds being replaced are because of 1 of 2 reasons:

1.  You are on a bot blacklist
2.  (and more likely I think) The site purposely limits the amount of upper tier free rolls that it will allow which is COMPLETELY against the "provably fair" claim.

The below screenshots show that 9994 to 10000 are all missing.  This is simply NOT possible in this reality.  The chances of all of these numbers being missed IN ORDER in ~20000 rolls is so small that the HD of this forum's server couldnt hold the amount of 0's it would require in order to represent the probability of it happening in 0.0000...%  It's absolutely clear that these results are from purposeful SERVER SEED changing (which you have noticed in your own DB,  I didnt even bother to record them as they are not necessary to see patterns in cheating).  You can see that 0-10 have no problem showing up as results,  it's only the upper numbers that have issues even though they BOTH should have the same probability of being rolled.  You certainly do NOT see 0-10 missing IN ORDER like you do for 9994+

You will also observe the SAME result if you try to use the "jackpot" in the "Multiply Game".  You'll also observe the same result if your "profit" from any "Multiply Game" bet is over 7x of your original bet OR if your profit is exactly 20BTC.  The site clearly has limits in place that are NOT disclosed and are purposefully hidden behind a "Provably fair" claim which is difficult to prove unless you compile data like I have.  The ONLY part of the site that can make a decent "provably fair" claim is the LOTTERY which uses a BTC hash for the Server seed,  but with the site's behavior in all other rolls,  I wouldnt put to much stock into the lottery WINNER actually being a real person as very very few of them actually claim to have won.  There have only been a handful seen in the forums which is in line with all other manipulations that they do that would support a theme of limiting what they will allow to be won.  So even though the lottery is technically "provably fair".  The actual WINNING ID/id's may indeed be changed by the server to someone that doesnt actually exist (this is why it's not possible for people to see if an ID exists or not,  if they did this,  it would reveal the ID changing of the lottery),  thus allowing only a few people to have actually "won" anything at all.  And thats IF they arent already "in the hole" from the multiply game.

Also notice that this isnt really limited to just 9994+ either.  Notice of 0-10 are so plentiful that they take up all of my mysql results.  But for the 9000+ rolls,  it sinks all the way down to 9978.  This is CLEAR evidence of my #2 theory I think.

This site is such an obvious scam it's just disgusting.




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