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Author Topic: Democracy is dead.  (Read 416 times)
bluefirecorp_
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October 06, 2018, 11:56:54 PM
 #1

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.

This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.

I'm done with America.
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October 07, 2018, 02:58:05 PM
 #2

If people are electing some party; it is very much democratic.  It is not the few people to decide who will rule the country.  It is the majority who decides it.
So if the citizens elect one party at all the levels ; I think there is nothing wrong with it.  And people are intelligent; they closely monitor the working of a government.  And if they find they are not working for the safeguard of the interest of the people of the country; they can elect the opposition in next elections.  This is well known to the Government too.  So  they have the option to work honestly; for the betterment development of the people; if they desire to win next elections.
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October 07, 2018, 03:06:21 PM
 #3

If people are electing some party; it is very much democratic.  It is not the few people to decide who will rule the country.  It is the majority who decides it.
So if the citizens elect one party at all the levels ; I think there is nothing wrong with it.  And people are intelligent; they closely monitor the working of a government.  And if they find they are not working for the safeguard of the interest of the people of the country; they can elect the opposition in next elections.  This is well known to the Government too.  So  they have the option to work honestly; for the betterment development of the people; if they desire to win next elections.


If people democratically elected ISIS to rule in their country, would you still call it a democracy?

The meaning of democracy is not just majority rule, there are values that are integrate part of what you call a democracy. They have started evolving before French revolution. One of them is human rights and when certain groups of people have their rights trumped - I am sorry, that is no democracy.
Helana
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October 07, 2018, 05:29:58 PM
Last edit: October 07, 2018, 07:16:55 PM by Helana
 #4

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.

This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.

I'm done with America.

Platon wrote, more than 2,000 years ago that: "Democracy is the tyranny of the ignorant people".
I'm afraid he was quite right. Democracy is based on the equality of the desition, but, in a society profoundly manipulated, uninformed and idiotic... can even democracy be a Democracy? Or just a joke?
I tend to believe it is the second one...
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October 07, 2018, 07:30:30 PM
 #5

These are very good arguments and it's true for more or less all countries, no matter who you vote for, they always let you down or pull some crap from which just benefit friends which oil the system.

But the real question is what are the alternatives then?
bluefirecorp_
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October 07, 2018, 07:31:33 PM
 #6

But the real question is what are the alternatives then?

Liquid democracy.
vphasitha01
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October 08, 2018, 07:10:41 AM
Last edit: October 08, 2018, 07:26:00 AM by vphasitha01
Merited by Welsh (3), Majormax (1), actmyname (1)
 #7

These are very good arguments and it's true for more or less all countries, no matter who you vote for, they always let you down or pull some crap from which just benefit friends which oil the system.

But the real question is what are the alternatives then?
There are two main political parties in our country and they ruled the country nearly 70 years up to now since our independence. In the first time of our history, we elected our president from one of a major party while the majority of members in the parliament from another party. Then the executive president invited to other parties to rule the government with the association of two major parties. Now our country is ruling by a national government which created a lot of problems than the other way around.

Any decision was taken from a one party is criticized by the other party of the national government which leads lagging of taking decisions (Good decisions have a lot of fathers while when things have gone wrong they just blame each other party)

No constructive debates going on when submitting a bill/policies for the parliament since there is no strong opposition party, they just getting approved all most all the bills/policies even though some of the policies/bills didn't have any positive impacts towards people.

What I want to express here is we have tried an alternative (National government) for the mainstream politics, but the results seem to be worse than the other way around (ruling by one party). We couldn't change the way politicians thinking about their(our) country and they are just thinking only about how to maintain their power until the next election. Sometimes I felt that we can't just blame the politicians only, because when we have the power of voting we are not electing the right candidate to do the job for us. Instead, we just follow the popular ones even though they didn't have any political background or education qualifications at all.

Actually what we need more professionals for the political arena like Singapore to gain maximum output from their respective fields(economic, foreign affairs, health, education etc.. ).



"The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything" - Albert Einstein
Helana
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October 08, 2018, 10:08:00 AM
Merited by Majormax (1)
 #8



But the real question is what are the alternatives then?

I do believe that there are too many people in this world, to begin with. But, as far as I've been able to observe, small communities are needed. I think that humanity needs to develop a network of small communities with self-government, based on merits. Platon also spoke about a type of Aristocracy based on philosophy, in where the ruler should be a philosopher. The way he/she should reach the power was based on merits, and on a strong educational system preparing greedless rulers.

Well, in an over-populated community, this is impossible to achieve, of course, for, how are you going to develop a trust-system between millions of persons? Of course not. But in small communities, it can absolutely be done. But, again, in an overpopulated world, that's kind of utopic. I do see a dystopian future, though, based on a punctuation system, a meritocracy, but in where, probably, ignorance and appearance will be voted, instead of intelligence and greedless. Maybe you just asked a pessimist woman.

enhu
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October 08, 2018, 10:14:28 AM
 #9



But the real question is what are the alternatives then?

I do believe that there are too many people in this world, to begin with. But, as far as I've been able to observe, small communities are needed. I think that humanity needs to develop a network of small communities with self-government, based on merits. Platon also spoke about a type of Aristocracy based on philosophy, in where the ruler should be a philosopher. The way he/she should reach the power was based on merits, and on a strong educational system preparing greedless rulers.

Well, in an over-populated community, this is impossible to achieve, of course, for, how are you going to develop a trust-system between millions of persons? Of course not. But in small communities, it can absolutely be done. But, again, in an overpopulated world, that's kind of utopic. I do see a dystopian future, though, based on a punctuation system, a meritocracy, but in where, probably, ignorance and appearance will be voted, instead of intelligence and greedless. Maybe you just asked a pessimist woman.



IT was Socrates who oppose democracy and then end up punished by death.  What Socrates propose was that in order for you to have the right to vote you should be trained first and become a philosopher before you can cast a vote which means that vote has a substance and that it was wisely done. Not like allowing anyone to cast vote to someone who wants to be an official.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk

Thats what I understood.


Helana
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October 08, 2018, 10:59:31 AM
Last edit: October 08, 2018, 12:47:33 PM by Helana
 #10



IT was Socrates who oppose democracy and then end up punished by death.  What Socrates propose was that in order for you to have the right to vote you should be trained first and become a philosopher before you can cast a vote which means that vote has a substance and that it was wisely done. Not like allowing anyone to cast vote to someone who wants to be an official.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLJBzhcSWTk

Thats what I understood.




I was talking about Plato's Republic books: https://www.iep.utm.edu/republic/
Of course, Plato did mention Socrates in his books and shared some of his ideas because he was his teacher, but the point I was quoting is in Plato's Republic.
In fact, the video is about these books too, but, anyway, what matters is the idea behind the mind... and how old it is. Democracy has been sold to us as the ultimate system, like a synonymous of "evolution" and "progress". But this is just mind-controlling, again. Democracy, from my perspective, is the perfect circus, the perfect way to have the masses controlled. Easy cake, you just need to educate the voters.
yla1974
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October 12, 2018, 09:42:59 AM
 #11

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.
This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.
I'm done with America.
Democracy is a myth. It was created for the appearance of the importance of the population. All controls are behind the scenes of governments. States are only performers who are chosen for a specific period. Worker for hire. Change the mode, it is not real, everything has long been divided. The only way out, is not to play game, according to their rules.
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October 12, 2018, 06:38:36 PM
 #12

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.

This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.

I'm done with America.

If democracy is gonna die (debatable) it's not gonna happen due to a certain party or a certain person, it's gonna happen due to tantrum-based ignorance like this. Also I'm getting a feeling you wouldn't be creating this thread if the party in question was a different one.

There is a good chance that founding fathers envisioned people actually voting instead of whining on internet forums.
rosezionjohn
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October 19, 2018, 06:55:08 PM
 #13

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.

This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.

I'm done with America.

I think you are only saying this because
1. Your candidate/s and your party lost
2. What's currently happening there is not according to your subjective ideals

For you, democracy maybe dead but for others it is alive.
Eirecoin
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December 09, 2018, 05:04:19 AM
 #14

The day we stop believing in Democracy is the day we lose it. I know things seems to be screwed up a lot right now but we have to stand our ground there a lot of good politicians too they just need our back up.
MULTIK888
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December 09, 2018, 04:59:09 PM
 #15

Democracy is just a made-up idea that people are allowed to say what they want, think what they want and do what they want.
In fact, you are all puppets and there is no democracy! All who rule countries in most cases control all its structures and democracy this is only the beautiful the for people which thinks that he is free in this world.
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December 09, 2018, 06:04:29 PM
 #16

Is democracy dying, or perhaps already dead? Is it really time to eulogise democracy, or are we rather on the cusp of a new phase in its long and varied life? – Jean-Paul Gagnon, University of Canberra
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December 10, 2018, 06:09:54 AM
 #17

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.

This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.

I'm done with America.

Majority of the country are implementing democracy but in the actual application by it, in most of them are not being applied properly or sometimes it was being controlled by those officials in the government who abused their authority for this system. Because as long as you are free to express your own freedom in your own country
DireWolfM14
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December 10, 2018, 05:04:19 PM
Merited by actmyname (1), bkbirge (1)
 #18

Democracy isn't dead.  It's alive and well in California and many other states that will even allow constitutional amendments through ballot initiatives.  Some of you might think that's a good thing, but many have argued, with demonstrable evidence that it's destroying those states.

Pure democracy isn't any more practical than pure communism.  It doesn't work.  It subjugates minorities, and I'm not only talking about ethnic minorities.  I'm talking about political, ideological, and social minorities, regardless of their ethnic background.  But, obviously it can and has been used to subjugate ethnic minorities as well.

Most people have no idea what democracy really is.  They think the United States if America is a democracy, because we use a democratic process to elect representatives.  Those of you who believe that are wrong.  The USA isn't and never has been a "A Democracy."

A pure democracy is Majority Rule, and minorities be damned.  Look around you, all the people you interact with daily, the folks shopping at the supermarket, the guy pumping your gas, the girl ringing you up for a Big Mac...  do you want them deciding on public policy?  Do they have the education, insight, and forethought to really make decisions that will benefit society today and for the long run?  Might they be susceptible to the influence of a charming scammer, a despot, or a genocidal maniac?  Most people won't read the instructions on a bottle of Drain-O, let alone study the intricate legalese of a proposed initiative.

No thank you, I'll take my Constitutional Republic over a democracy any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum
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December 11, 2018, 08:35:21 PM
 #19

A single ruling party exists at all levels of government. No checks, no balances.

This isn't democracy. This isn't what our founding fathered envisioned.

I'm done with America.

Democracy is not exist. In every time there are people who have more influence and power.
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December 11, 2018, 08:43:29 PM
 #20

Ironic to read comments from people who live in authoritarian countries weighing in on whether democracy is real or not.
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