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Author Topic: Why are so many people Anti-Bitcoin?  (Read 6758 times)
bbit
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October 31, 2011, 05:40:13 PM
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I've just spent the past 2 hours reading back articles on bitcoin and new articles going forward and the comments on them. I don't get why people are so anti-bitcoin? Sad  

edit: I should add that the same comments back a few months show up even today ? haven't we gotten past this?

Some quotes on it:

=================================

"If you can't spend it, it's not worth anything. I can have a car "worth" $50,000, but if no one wants it, it might as well be worth zero. You can give up and down percentages all you want, but it's not being used for hard goods and services.Today, I bought a tank of gas, lunch, and a $400 plane ticket. None accepted, or will ever accept, bitcoin"

"its like an eve online scam without the subscription fee."

"Bitcoin is *not* anonymous. At least not in the way that that implies. Specifically *all* transactions in the world are totally public and traceable by anyone. Pretty much the only anonymous thing is that you don't have to give use your real name as your bitcoin ID. But if someone finds out your bitcoin ID (e.g. if you use an exchange) they can then see your entire transaction history! It is far from the anonymity of cash."

"I'm shocked, shocked that a bizarre nerd currency doesn't work in the real world!"

"I don't consider myself to be overly stupid, but Bitcoins confuse the crap out of me."

==================================

I mean isn't the Myths deterring this kind of talk?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

I think its time to get our house in order with some good PR work. Maybe even hire a firm ?  This is getting ridiculous . I mean grant it Bitcoin isn't perfect but some of this stuff is just flat out wrong.

What are we doing wrong as a community? and I think we really need to have a honest  discussion about all this Huh
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Phinnaeus Gage
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October 31, 2011, 05:50:14 PM
 #2

I've just spent the past 2 hours reading back articles on bitcoin and new articles going forward and the comments on them. I don't get why people are so anti-bitcoin? Sad  

Some quotes on it:

"If you can't spend it, it's not worth anything. I can have a car "worth" $50,000, but if no one wants it, it might as well be worth zero. You can give up and down percentages all you want, but it's not being used for hard goods and services.Today, I bought a tank of gas, lunch, and a $400 plane ticket. None accepted, or will ever accept, bitcoin"

"its like an eve online scam without the subscription fee."

"Bitcoin is *not* anonymous. At least not in the way that that implies. Specifically *all* transactions in the world are totally public and traceable by anyone. Pretty much the only anonymous thing is that you don't have to give use your real name as your bitcoin ID. But if someone finds out your bitcoin ID (e.g. if you use an exchange) they can then see your entire transaction history! It is far from the anonymity of cash."

"I'm shocked, shocked that a bizarre nerd currency doesn't work in the real world!"

"I don't consider myself to be overly stupid, but Bitcoins confuse the crap out of me."

I mean isn't the Myths deterring this kind of talk?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

I think its time to get our house in order with some good PR work. Maybe even hire a firm ?  This is getting ridiculous . I mean grant it Bitcoin isn't perfect but some of this stuff is just flat out wrong.

What are we doing wrong as a community? and I think we really need to have a honest talk about all this Huh

Oh, please let me be the first to comment on your thread!!! Since you love reading, I offer up a nice little 7 page thread for your enjoyment to answer your question in quotes. I suggest Jergins--a big bottle.

Quote
What are we doing wrong as a community? and I think we really need to have a honest talk about all this

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50306.0

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October 31, 2011, 05:51:44 PM
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I know  Phinnaeus I was getting scared if I would at least get 1 comment on this lol   I'll take another hour to read that 7 page jergin bottle required thread!
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October 31, 2011, 05:55:39 PM
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I mean isn't the Myths deterring this kind of talk?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

I think its time to get our house in order with some good PR work. Maybe even hire a firm?  This is getting ridiculous . I mean grant it Bitcoin isn't perfect but some of this stuff is just flat out wrong.

Anyone rejecting bitcoins isn't going to bother with the myths page; their mind is already made up on it. And no need to hire a PR firm when letting friends and others know about it is free.  Smiley

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October 31, 2011, 05:58:13 PM
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I mean isn't the Myths deterring this kind of talk?
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

I think its time to get our house in order with some good PR work. Maybe even hire a firm?  This is getting ridiculous . I mean grant it Bitcoin isn't perfect but some of this stuff is just flat out wrong.

Anyone rejecting bitcoins isn't going to bother with the myths page; their mind is already made up on it. And no need to hire a PR firm when letting friends and others know about it is free.  Smiley

I hear what you are saying. We can't be the first technology to have to "convince people of what we aren't" but if it's just starting with your friends then I suppose this is a good start and yes it is free. Smiley
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October 31, 2011, 06:03:42 PM
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Could also print out simple folded up cards with info about bitcoin, and throw it in with the Halloween candy. Parents and older siblings, at least from my experience, always get a good look at a kids candy plunder, who would be a good target audience. Working on a simple design right now myself for just that.

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October 31, 2011, 06:05:01 PM
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Could also print out simple folded up cards with info about bitcoin, and throw it in with the Halloween candy. Parents and older siblings, at least from my experience, always get a good look at a kids candy plunder, who would be a good target audience. Working on a simple design right now myself for just that.

So brillant  Grin   Do post here when you are done I will do the same tonight when I hand out "bitcoin candy"  Grin
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October 31, 2011, 06:05:30 PM
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I think even some of the haters believe but just try to drive down the price while they secretly invest.

For the other haters, they are just ignorant/sociopathic trolls disrupting innovation.

And then there the anti-shills/false flag types sent here to disrupt the evolution and propagation of the Bitcoin movement.

For the believers, it's easy to see Bitcoin will prevail in the long run. It's logical to see how its benefits will eventually win the hearts and minds of the people. Just keep your head up, do everything you can to understand Bitcoin, and promote it with every chance you get.

And you don't have to promote any investment into Bitcoin either... It's a dirty topic that gives most people a negative feeling. For people who produce useful services, it's easy to simply accept Bitcoin as payment and then there's a little less risk for them to get involved - yet still enticing with all the benefits that can be had. This should be encouraged because it will build the user base until their trust and education can be built. Eventually the "Packers" will be exposed to more people that accept Bitcoin and feel more comfortable about using it.

Bitcoin will succeed on grass roots promotion and infrastructure development.

BTW, Bitcoin can absolutely be anonymous.

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October 31, 2011, 06:11:15 PM
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Bitcoin is radical.  Anytime you have something that is radical people will mock it, attack it, and misunderstand it.  You aren't going to reach everyone so those who are in "attack mode" are likely best left to stew in their own venom.  You aren't going to convince them.  There were a half dozen logical fallacies in those quotes but it wouldn't matter if you pointed them out to the authors.

That being said I think the way Bitcoin has been (and mostly still is) introduced is counter productive.  How I learned about bitcoin is "Hey you can use your computer to mine digital coins and some people will pay real cash for it".  I mean it comes off as inplausible, a pyramid scheme, and some kind of get rich quick scam.

A better way to explain Bitcoin is.
Quote
There is this currency which is anonymous, can't be counterfitted, and can't be charged back.  The best part is the currency is peer2peer so it is outside the control of central banks and their agendas and the monopolies of VISA/Paypal.  

.....

talk about how it works

....
talk about exchanges

....

talk about advantages to merchants

....

"But wait how does the network prevent fraud?"

Good question.  Individuals working together chain transactions into blocks creating an irreversable record of transactions and prevent counterfitting and fraud.  

"But why would they do that?"

They are compensated for their time, equiment, and electricity.  Eventually the network will be large enough that they can be compensated by a small fee on transactions (much smaller than CC/Paypal) but since network is still small they are given an agreed upon "subsidy" by the protocol.


That sounds more plausible, more believable.  I also hate a love/hate relationship with the term "mining".  We arne't mining anything.  This isn't a video game where you get prizes just for playing.  We are hashing the network, providing security, and being compensated for that activity.

The good news is things like OccupyWallstreet accepting Bitcoins add support to the longer useful narrative.  Hopefully we see less "Dude you can like minting thousands of dollars by just turning your computer on" and more real world uses for Bitcoin.  

What will change people's minds is seeing Bitcoin accepted.  If someone trusts the Electronic Freedom Foundation and they accept Bitcoin then that is vote of confidence.  If someone like Wikileaks and they prefer donations in Bitcoins then that person may decide to learn more with an open mind.
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October 31, 2011, 06:13:43 PM
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There's something else at work here, which is the natural boom/bust of the long-term news cycle. It's a hackneyed cultural trope, but if there's one thing the media likes better than a "rags-to-riches" story, it's a "rise-and-fall". That doesn't mean we'll be out of the news. It just means our trajectory's going to look a little more like Robert Downey Jr.'s than, say, Dwight D. Eisenhower's.

To take it down to an individual, psychiatric level, you have to realize there were a great many people in the blogs & media who were hyping Bitcoin six months ago -- without ever actually having possessed a Bitcoin or having any idea how to set up the client. They were hyping it because other people were hyping it. These are the same people who are busy attacking it now. They want to be the first on the bandwagon to declare its death, so they don't look foolish for incorrectly calling its success.

Now either way it goes, there's a knock-on effect on the currency; but just as media hype couldn't put Bitcoin into an artificial increase in value permanently, neither will talking it down cause its demise. What you have to realize is that all of these people will deny their current statements and change their tune the moment the wind blows the other way; they aren't creating anything of value, they're parrots. They were nice, useful parrots when the price was going up, and now they're bad, bad parrots. But don't take it too seriously; these are people who are perpetually in a state of trying to cover their own asses.

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October 31, 2011, 06:17:54 PM
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and throw it in with the Halloween candy.

Brilliant!

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October 31, 2011, 06:32:54 PM
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what i dont understand is that people mock agains us HERE in bitcointalk.org

no problem, you dont have to be a fan. go somewhere else, dont troll us.

it is like some mentally unbalanced men, standing somewhere in the middle of the traffic with a plate 'the end is near'.

they just disturb. absolutely nothing more.

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October 31, 2011, 06:38:45 PM
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what i dont understand is that people mock agains us HERE in bitcointalk.org

no problem, you dont have to be a fan. go somewhere else, dont troll us.

it is like some mentally unbalanced men, standing somewhere in the middle of the traffic with a plate 'the end is near'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

We're just trying to prevent more victims.  I know no one wants to admit it now, but some of you have spent tens of thousands of dollars on hardware to "mine" bitcoins.  There are people who bought into the idea of bitcoins @ $28 each, then bought more at every step downward.  Those people are victims who were led astray by this community.  Because there aren't enough people here who are willing to call out the bullshit.

But more to the OP, what can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with paypal?  Ok, drugs from Silk Road.  What else?
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October 31, 2011, 06:42:15 PM
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what i dont understand is that people mock agains us HERE in bitcointalk.org

no problem, you dont have to be a fan. go somewhere else, dont troll us.

it is like some mentally unbalanced men, standing somewhere in the middle of the traffic with a plate 'the end is near'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

We're just trying to prevent more victims.  I know no one wants to admit it now, but some of you have spent tens of thousands of dollars on hardware to "mine" bitcoins.  There are people who bought into the idea of bitcoins @ $28 each, then bought more at every step downward.  Those people are victims who were led astray by this community.  Because there aren't enough people here who are willing to call out the bullshit.

But more to the OP, what can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with paypal?  Ok, drugs from Silk Road.  What else?


I hear what your saying in regards to people investing hard earned money only to be left with nothing but the trolls were doing more then that in my opinion. As for your question regarding buying with Bitcoins vs Paypal I don't think anyone is making the case one is better then the other just the fact we can have a decentralized system for making payments. I mean look at wikileaks and how they have come to a complete halt due to Visa/MasterCard/ Paypal and everyone else cutting off their access to funds.
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October 31, 2011, 06:43:12 PM
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what i dont understand is that people mock agains us HERE in bitcointalk.org

no problem, you dont have to be a fan. go somewhere else, dont troll us.

it is like some mentally unbalanced men, standing somewhere in the middle of the traffic with a plate 'the end is near'.

they just disturb. absolutely nothing more.

Klaus - I agree. I think the trolls were here for "other reasons" and it really was uncalled for. Just look at my history of posts and you'll see the battles I've had with them Sad
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October 31, 2011, 06:44:05 PM
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But more to the OP, what can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with paypal?  Ok, drugs from Silk Road.  What else?

Not much... yet... but we want an alternative to fiat money. We want anonymity. We want to backup our money (without FDIC). We dont want inflation. We want control.

Tell us how Paypal will help us with that?

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October 31, 2011, 06:44:59 PM
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I think even some of the haters believe but just try to drive down the price while they secretly invest.

For the other haters, they are just ignorant/sociopathic trolls disrupting innovation.

And then there the anti-shills/false flag types sent here to disrupt the evolution and propagation of the Bitcoin movement.

For the believers, it's easy to see Bitcoin will prevail in the long run. It's logical to see how its benefits will eventually win the hearts and minds of the people. Just keep your head up, do everything you can to understand Bitcoin, and promote it with every chance you get.

And you don't have to promote any investment into Bitcoin either... It's a dirty topic that gives most people a negative feeling. For people who produce useful services, it's easy to simply accept Bitcoin as payment and then there's a little less risk for them to get involved - yet still enticing with all the benefits that can be had. This should be encouraged because it will build the user base until their trust and education can be built. Eventually the "Packers" will be exposed to more people that accept Bitcoin and feel more comfortable about using it.

Bitcoin will succeed on grass roots promotion and infrastructure development.

BTW, Bitcoin can absolutely be anonymous.

Tuxavant - I think you could be on to something. Disinformation to better their own needs or cause or out of pure entertainment.  I think the infrastructure is still being built and we haven't seen the full fruit of everyones labor just yet. I think the only thing that is shocking is that fact.
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October 31, 2011, 06:45:58 PM
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We're just trying to prevent more victims.  I know no one wants to admit it now, but some of you have spent tens of thousands of dollars ...


ridiculous

im grown-up. i dont need someone telling me what to do. if im in the middle of a scam, i accept it. someday i go.

bitcoin is a experiment. if someone loads a lot of money in it at the wrong moment im sorry. but thats life. bitcoin is not the paradise. if your greedy you have to accept to lose. thats it.

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October 31, 2011, 06:49:40 PM
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I think the infrastructure is still being built and we haven't seen the full fruit of everyones labor just yet. I think the only thing that is shocking is that fact.

It is impossible to tell at this point what innovation will be discovered in the not-so-distant future. Hell, I've been following Bitcoin almost since the beginning and just recently discovered scripts and how the will eventually provide for peer-to-peer executed contracts. I've never been more excited for what Bitcoin will become.

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October 31, 2011, 06:52:20 PM
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Klaus - I agree. I think the trolls were here for "other reasons" and it really was uncalled for. Just look at my history of posts and you'll see the battles I've had with them Sad

im near saying this is the last thread talking with them / about them. im done with them. the ignore button is a possibility...

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