Bitcoin Forum
April 16, 2014, 04:00:01 PM *
News: ♦♦ A bug in OpenSSL, used by Bitcoin-Qt/Bitcoin Core, could allow your bitcoins to be stolen. Immediately updating Bitcoin Core to 0.9.1 is required in some cases, especially if you're using 0.9.0. Download. More info.
The same bug also affected the forum. Changing your forum password is recommended.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Why are so many people Anti-Bitcoin?  (Read 4193 times)
Phinnaeus Gage
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1050


Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending


View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 10:15:22 AM
 #61

All the wild conspiracy theories are the correct answer.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you are limited in cashing out deposits, or that investing/spending bitcoins has literally a 50/50 chance of someone taking your coins and running.

Nearly every bitcoin business venture has turned out to be a total out-and-out scam and you have had two ponzi schemes that were brazenly labeled as such.

Exchanges shut down regularly and often without any warning or explanation.  They are also hacked multiple times.

Mybitcoin shut down and offered you guys 49% of your coins back and you treated it as a victory.

Your list of bitcoin accepting vendors is 90% broken links and 10% stuff that could be bought cheaper with USD.

Anything you can buy with bitcoins still ends up converted into fiat money.  Bitcoin serves as a pointless middleman, not a currency in and of itself.

Your own bitcoin conventions don't accept payments in bitcoin.  Big confidence builder there.

Rampant scamming.

Bitcoins can be and often are permanently lost.

Using an exchange, bitcoins are not anonymous, they are linked to your bank account and can easily be traced back to it.

MtGox is just a repurposed Magic: The Gathering trading card website.  Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange.  This is entirely ignored.

Bitcoin adherents generally won't accept any criticism, no matter how valid. It's like watching a cat trying to bury his shit in a bathtub, funny, yet sad.  Any differing opinion is regarded as trolling.  This is so bad, even after solid legal evidence of Bruce's scamming, he was still widely defended here.

I will say, though, that as a piece of software, Bitcoin is pretty solid.  The community just sucks, though.  You guys need to stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you as trolls.  You make a lot of noise about the free exchange of ideas, but you sure as hell don't really believe it.

Damn, you! Damn, you! Damn, you! You had to make it so difficult for me to find fault(s) in this post.

1397664001
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1397664001

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1397664001
Reply with quote  #2

1397664001
Report to moderator
Private Internet Access™ - No logs, Unlimited Bandwidth, PC Magazine's Editor's Choice
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1397664001
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1397664001

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1397664001
Reply with quote  #2

1397664001
Report to moderator
1397664001
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1397664001

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1397664001
Reply with quote  #2

1397664001
Report to moderator
Litt
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 350


View Profile

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 10:21:55 AM
 #62

I think that people are anti bitcoin for a very simple reason. It's a new concept to most people.

Many people who are anti bitcoin also are likely to have very little idea of how our current fiat system works.
Like politics, economics is easy to put on our back burner in our daily lives. Especially so if you've been desensitized to seeing the warning signs by the mass media.  

Progress from being unaware of using a broken central banking system that holds monopoly on money production to understanding bitcoin enough to appreciate it's p2p decentralized advantages isn't going to happen overnight. It's going to take time for a new mindset about money to take hold in people. Once the collective majority of the innovators' and early adapters' mindset has shifted away from the old system, we will finally see the true explosive growth in bitcoin. Of course this is me having faith in humanity to recognize the faults of our existing system.

Also the argument about exchanges being shutdown and what not may be as bad as it seems when you think about the banks being propped up by the tax money bailout. The real bankers already did the same thing with fiat money. It's just our gov is propping them up with more of our money. At least with bitcoin you only lose what you risk and noone is forced to pay to keep the exchanges open.

Tuxavant
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728


Bitcoin Mayor of Las Vegas


View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 12:54:19 PM
 #63

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you are limited in cashing out deposits, or that investing/spending bitcoins has literally a 50/50 chance of someone taking your coins and running.
Unfounded statistics, Fraud/Trust argument (happens in any currency)

Nearly every bitcoin business venture has turned out to be a total out-and-out scam and you have had two ponzi schemes that were brazenly labeled as such.
"Nearly every" is hyperbole. Use provable stats next time. A properly labeled scam isn't really a scam (you've been warned).

Exchanges shut down regularly and often without any warning or explanation.  They are also hacked multiple times.
Has nothing to do with Bitcoin and everything to do with infrastructure. Problems are actively being solved.

Mybitcoin shut down and offered you guys 49% of your coins back and you treated it as a victory.
Fraud, misplaced trust, can (and does) happen with any currency.

Your list of bitcoin accepting vendors is 90% broken links and 10% stuff that could be bought cheaper with USD.
What is the # of broken links on the internet? Probably a lot. Other issue is ubiquitous adoption. This will eventually be solved as more people learn and trust the underlaying principles of Bitcoin to transfer a unit of value to another person. (This is the primary function of a currency):

Anything you can buy with bitcoins still ends up converted into fiat money.  Bitcoin serves as a pointless middleman, not a currency in and of itself.

Your own bitcoin conventions don't accept payments in bitcoin.  Big confidence builder there.
Problem is ubiquitous adoption

Rampant scamming.
Bitcoin is a new technology and people have to learn how to protect against fraud it the same way they had to learn how to deal with scammers shaving off the sides of gold coins or plating worthless metal in gold:

Bitcoins can be and often are permanently lost.
Not if cared for properly. Cash can be and often is permanently destroyed by both acts of god and neglegence so we should stop using it?: Bitcoins is the first currency that can be encrypted and backed up. I'll take that over cash any day.

Using an exchange, bitcoins are not anonymous, they are linked to your bank account and can easily be traced back to it.
True statement. But this is only necessary until bitcoin acceptance is ubiquitous

The Gathering trading card website.  Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange.  This is entirely ignored.
Who the F cares. Besides, it's a little "insider" geek humor

Bitcoin adherents generally won't accept any criticism, no matter how valid. It's like watching a cat trying to bury his shit in a bathtub, funny, yet sad.  Any differing opinion is regarded as trolling.  This is so bad, even after solid legal evidence of Bruce's scamming, he was still widely defended here.
It's accepted as long as it's constructive and pertinent. Real problems are discussed and solutions developed

I will say, though, that as a piece of software, Bitcoin is pretty solid.
This is what will eventually make Bitcoin ubiquitous and fulfill its primary role as a world currency - People's trust in it's ability to transfer a value of wealth in exchange for goods or services.


Using TOR to separate your identities is not enough. You have to ensure that each of your (virtual) machines have a different (or at least generic) software configuration as well. Advertisers (like facebook and Google) are storing an increasing amount of data. I would caution you not to underestimate potential advances in data de-annonymization in the comming years.

Totally agree with you. Anonymity on the web is certainly not easy. Sure your browser (and other applications) will leak identity information, but not so much with the Bitcoin client as long as your isolating transactions to specific identities. Strictly concerning Bitcoin, it is pretty easy for it to be completely anonymous if you follow the rules to prevent cross contamination.

Generation Bitcoin | G+ | FB | Bitcoins In Vegas | CoinBus.com | TOR Exit Operator 1MVTPATVCKBMfALRHJsXpHfKJu7GyL7nAc
makomk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


View Profile

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 01:46:07 PM
 #64

This part I've always found most confusing. By saying Bitcoin doesn't have services and products, I guess you are implying that USD has services and products? So, what is a product of US dollars?
Wrong question. What you should've been asking is "for what products and services is US dollars the most convenient way of buying and selling them?" The answer to that is obvious - nearly everything in the US, because everyone's costs and wage payments are in US dollars too! In fact, the US dollar is so useful that even I buy stuff using them fairly regularly, and I live in the UK.

Quad XC6SLX150 Board: 860 MHash/s or so.
SIGS ABOUT BUTTERFLY LABS ARE PAID ADS
bitstarter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 301


BitcoinStarter.com Support Account


View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 04:51:42 PM
 #65

That's a little tl;dr for some kids these days.  You might want to just put:
"BITCOIN
Get free money here: <link>"

Any responsible adult would see this long before any kid does.

I could see it now! A parent finds the note and decides to Google "Bitcoin". She first sees Rassah's coffee table, members wanting to commit suicide, and a convention in Pattaya. Then she asks Jr. if he remembers which house the note came from. Jr. remembers because it's the only house that he got paper with his candy. "It's the house with the old pickup in the driveway and the orange B in the window."


this is just classic ^^ lol

Bitcoin Crowd Funding! Bitcoinstarter.com
Rassah
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Director of Bitcoin100


View Profile

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 08:58:25 PM
 #66

This part I've always found most confusing. By saying Bitcoin doesn't have services and products, I guess you are implying that USD has services and products? So, what is a product of US dollars?
Wrong question. What you should've been asking is "for what products and services is US dollars the most convenient way of buying and selling them?" The answer to that is obvious - nearly everything in the US, because everyone's costs and wage payments are in US dollars too! In fact, the US dollar is so useful that even I buy stuff using them fairly regularly, and I live in the UK.

So is this the old, "The problem with bitcoin is that it isn't widely adopted, and because of that it won't be widely adopted until it is widely adopted" argument?

Serge
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854


View Profile

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 09:22:10 PM
 #67

So is this the old, "The problem with bitcoin is that it isn't widely adopted, and because of that it won't be widely adopted until it is widely adopted" argument?

That's the best argument naysayers able to produce  Cool
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966



View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 10:01:01 PM
 #68

This part I've always found most confusing. By saying Bitcoin doesn't have services and products, I guess you are implying that USD has services and products? So, what is a product of US dollars?
Wrong question. What you should've been asking is "for what products and services is US dollars the most convenient way of buying and selling them?" The answer to that is obvious - nearly everything in the US, because everyone's costs and wage payments are in US dollars too! In fact, the US dollar is so useful that even I buy stuff using them fairly regularly, and I live in the UK.

So is this the old, "The problem with bitcoin is that it isn't widely adopted, and because of that it won't be widely adopted until it is widely adopted" argument?

It is a solid argument.  It is the reason why the BankofAmerica's experimental method of paying with digital funds launched way back in 1958 failed.  I mean why use it is it isn't widely adopted and because of that it will never be widely adopted.  Er wait VISA didn't fail and is used for billions of dollars in transactions now.

Gerald Davis  CEO, Tangible Cryptography Inc.
BitSimple. A simpler way to buy and sell bitcoins
Tuxavant
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728


Bitcoin Mayor of Las Vegas


View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
 #69

It is a solid argument.  It is the reason why the BankofAmerica's experimental method of paying with digital funds launched way back in 1958 failed.  I mean why use it is it isn't widely adopted and because of that it will never be widely adopted.  Er wait VISA didn't fail and is used for billions of dollars in transactions now.

No it isn't. By that thinking, no one would have started using gold as a medium of exchange because, at the time, no one accepted it. Gold was useful, therefore it was used. Reserve notes were more useful than Gold so those were used more. Bitcoin offers a lot more function and usefulness than fiat money, so it will, in time, be used.

And I have no idea what this failed BoA thing was in the 50's, but I think it's hugely funny that you're using that as an example. Was *anything* was digital in the 50's?? Im not sure they even had numbers back then.

Generation Bitcoin | G+ | FB | Bitcoins In Vegas | CoinBus.com | TOR Exit Operator 1MVTPATVCKBMfALRHJsXpHfKJu7GyL7nAc
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966



View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 01, 2011, 10:14:18 PM
 #70

Sorry for being obscure.  I am being sarcastic.

In 1958 BankOfAmerica launched BankAmericard which later became VISA.

Gerald Davis  CEO, Tangible Cryptography Inc.
BitSimple. A simpler way to buy and sell bitcoins
TheBible
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 125


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 01:27:18 AM
 #71

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you are limited in cashing out deposits, or that investing/spending bitcoins has literally a 50/50 chance of someone taking your coins and running.
Unfounded statistics, Fraud/Trust argument (happens in any currency)

Nearly every bitcoin business venture has turned out to be a total out-and-out scam and you have had two ponzi schemes that were brazenly labeled as such.
"Nearly every" is hyperbole. Use provable stats next time. A properly labeled scam isn't really a scam (you've been warned).

Exchanges shut down regularly and often without any warning or explanation.  They are also hacked multiple times.
Has nothing to do with Bitcoin and everything to do with infrastructure. Problems are actively being solved.

Mybitcoin shut down and offered you guys 49% of your coins back and you treated it as a victory.
Fraud, misplaced trust, can (and does) happen with any currency.

Your list of bitcoin accepting vendors is 90% broken links and 10% stuff that could be bought cheaper with USD.
What is the # of broken links on the internet? Probably a lot. Other issue is ubiquitous adoption. This will eventually be solved as more people learn and trust the underlaying principles of Bitcoin to transfer a unit of value to another person. (This is the primary function of a currency):

Anything you can buy with bitcoins still ends up converted into fiat money.  Bitcoin serves as a pointless middleman, not a currency in and of itself.

Your own bitcoin conventions don't accept payments in bitcoin.  Big confidence builder there.
Problem is ubiquitous adoption

Rampant scamming.
Bitcoin is a new technology and people have to learn how to protect against fraud it the same way they had to learn how to deal with scammers shaving off the sides of gold coins or plating worthless metal in gold:

Bitcoins can be and often are permanently lost.
Not if cared for properly. Cash can be and often is permanently destroyed by both acts of god and neglegence so we should stop using it?: Bitcoins is the first currency that can be encrypted and backed up. I'll take that over cash any day.

Using an exchange, bitcoins are not anonymous, they are linked to your bank account and can easily be traced back to it.
True statement. But this is only necessary until bitcoin acceptance is ubiquitous

The Gathering trading card website.  Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange.  This is entirely ignored.
Who the F cares. Besides, it's a little "insider" geek humor

Bitcoin adherents generally won't accept any criticism, no matter how valid. It's like watching a cat trying to bury his shit in a bathtub, funny, yet sad.  Any differing opinion is regarded as trolling.  This is so bad, even after solid legal evidence of Bruce's scamming, he was still widely defended here.
It's accepted as long as it's constructive and pertinent. Real problems are discussed and solutions developed

I will say, though, that as a piece of software, Bitcoin is pretty solid.
This is what will eventually make Bitcoin ubiquitous and fulfill its primary role as a world currency - People's trust in it's ability to transfer a value of wealth in exchange for goods or services.


Using TOR to separate your identities is not enough. You have to ensure that each of your (virtual) machines have a different (or at least generic) software configuration as well. Advertisers (like facebook and Google) are storing an increasing amount of data. I would caution you not to underestimate potential advances in data de-annonymization in the comming years.

Totally agree with you. Anonymity on the web is certainly not easy. Sure your browser (and other applications) will leak identity information, but not so much with the Bitcoin client as long as your isolating transactions to specific identities. Strictly concerning Bitcoin, it is pretty easy for it to be completely anonymous if you follow the rules to prevent cross contamination.

Hey, the question was why is there so much anti-bitcoin sentiment, I'm just telling you why.

Don't take for granted bitcoin will succeed simply because the software is decent.  It takes a lot more than good code and rainbow wishes for a full blown currency to take off.
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966



View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 01:37:24 AM
 #72

Don't take for granted bitcoin will succeed simply because the software is decent.  It takes a lot more than good code and rainbow wishes for a full blown currency to take off.

Another strawman.  Nobody claimed bitcoin will succeed.  Nobody is hoping on rainbow wishes.


Gerald Davis  CEO, Tangible Cryptography Inc.
BitSimple. A simpler way to buy and sell bitcoins
Giraffe.BTC
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 02:47:48 AM
 #73

Bitcoin's biggest problem is that it's not consumer-friendly.  No one would buy anything with Bitcoin when they could use Visa, with its built-in liability protection.  Until that issue is resolved, Bitcoin will never be used for anything but money transfers and buying illegal goods.

Donation address:  none, because I'm not a goddamn hobo.
cruikshank
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 02:47:59 AM
 #74

Another strawman.  Nobody claimed bitcoin will succeed.  Nobody is hoping on rainbow wishes.

Actually people have claimed that Bitcoin will succeed. A good handful of people have made the claim of bitcoins succeeding.

And the continued use and interest in it would only exist if people felt that it would. Otherwise it would have been completely abandoned by now.

1JvnFCbMXAyeooPggF9snLAeg3A2QVV8eh
Rassah
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Director of Bitcoin100


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 04:29:03 AM
 #75

Bitcoin's biggest problem is that it's not consumer-friendly.

I agree, and I think the idea be summed up with:

Bitcoin is Linux to VISA's Windows.

hashman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 684



View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 11:36:49 AM
 #76


Two amusing answers I've heard on this topic since I started proselytizing btc:


1)  Bitcoin eh?  Scary.  Yeah that is the coming of the Apocolypse.  The book of revelation says we are going to have one world currency as the hosrsemen bring down the heavens.

2)  Bitcoin eh?  Don't touch that stuff.  Its from the paypal people who want to build an island nation. 
 



phatsphere
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 698


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 01:17:40 PM
 #77

Bitcoin is Linux to VISA's Windows.
That's an interesting comparison! Especially, because when you look at Linux'es strenghts today, it's on the servers! So, you can think of Bitcoin as some kind of "backbone" that exposes a service and "user-friendly"
  • clients interact with those backbone services. Especially because of scaling and usability this is the most likely outlook for Bitcoin's future.
  • for me and probably many others windows isn't user friendly, but i think you get the idea.

in case you want to be friends with my wallet, you have to send to 1HB9mgo3cdqBoC3jPemDpD8TPHFxcuQ8AD - http://www.bitcoin-austria.at/
Jalum
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 223



View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 01:22:00 PM
 #78

Another strawman.  Nobody claimed bitcoin will succeed.  Nobody is hoping on rainbow wishes.

HAHAHA...yes, on a forum of bitcoin enthusiasts, no one here actually thinks it's going to succeed.  No one sold all their possessions and maxed out their credit cards to buy bitcoins.  No one built ten thousand dollars worth of mining rigs.

And if they did, it's because they know bitcoin will fail and they are just doing it for fun.  You know...the fun you get by running a program on a computer that does nothing.
Explodicle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 940


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 01:25:51 PM
 #79

Bitcoin's biggest problem is that it's not consumer-friendly.  No one would buy anything with Bitcoin when they could use Visa, with its built-in liability protection.  Until that issue is resolved, Bitcoin will never be used for anything but money transfers and buying illegal goods.

I hope you're right. Eventually Bitcoin will support really secure built-in escrow (multisigned transactions). You'll be able to secure your purchase with any mutually trusted third party. No more trusting a handful of credit card companies.
barrymac
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 68


View Profile

Ignore
November 02, 2011, 02:02:23 PM
 #80

I think the answer is fairly straightforward and obvious.

Most people are afraid of change. Nothing effects people lives than money, so they are likely to be over sensitive about it. People have made a lot of assumptions that they believe to be concrete facts about how the money system works and they are challenged by the existence of and ideas behind bitcoin. It's also quite anarchistic in some ways which most people are not ready for either. People are used to

I like the analogy to Linux. Many software industrialists were afraid of Linux when it started to gain recognition. It was as if they felt their career was being undermined by the idea of free software; what could be worse for their income source! After 20 years some of the biggest software enterprises run on Linux and other free software based on the same fundamental open source ideas. I had faith in Linux as soon as I heard about it and that I was right, although a bit late. I have a similar faith in the bitcoin system and I hope it has as much flexibility to be able to mature nicely as it gains acceptance.

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!