Capitalism vs. Socialism - Make your argument here.

[Carlton Banks]

And how do you prevent big companies to use their money as leverage and lobby to corrupt your government and create regulations in their favor? :/

With representative democracy, socialism or capitalism is all the same. It leads to concentrate the power in few hands, them being corporations in capitalism and government members in socialism.

The end doesn't change, though capitalism takes longer I'd say.

Notice that the common factor in all the different systems you're talking about is state power. The state, and the corruption it attracts, is the problem, not capitalism or communism.

[mOgliE]

Notice that the common factor in all the different systems you're talking about is state power. The state, and the corruption it attract, is the problem, not capitalism or communism.

Completely agreed.
I'm all for getting the guillotine out and make the whole government going through it, but how do you make it so another one doesn't pop out?

[tarball]

Has anyone made a case for layering capitalist and socialist ideas on top of each other, seeing as that's what actually works in reality?


Insurance is a great example of that. A profit making company (capitalist outermost layer) that administers a money pool (socialist inner structure) that people join voluntarily (capitalist at the individual level) to manage risks.


Here's how you fuck that up: insurance companies convince government to add an extra layer; coerced standards (aka "regulations"). This makes it very difficult to break into the market as a startup. Then the existing companies can easily charge too much, because they haven't got any competition (and can make deals with their existing competition not to undercut each other). Next, the insurance company cartel can get government to force people into buying insurance for various risks, and present it as "keeping everyone safe".


Supply side distortions (standards that prevent new entries to the market) and demand side distortions (forcing all people to buy something at fixed prices) completely destroys the market, but it's apparently easy to convince people that this is free market capitalism in action.

But if everyone is forced to buy and there is no competition, how is that different from socialism? The method is different to outright socialism, and complicated: 5 layers of socialism and capitalism nested inside or across each other. But what's the outcome? Very similar to what happens in total socialism: friends of the government run massive companies that don't have any incentive to do a good job.

And how do you prevent big companies to use their money as leverage and lobby to corrupt your government and create regulations in their favor? :/

With representative democracy, socialism or capitalism is all the same. It leads to concentrate the power in few hands, them being corporations in capitalism and government members in socialism.

The end doesn't change, though capitalism takes longer I'd say.

Back in the day, the US government was limited, it did not get in the way of the economy, and there were no lobbyists. Remove the government's job of managing the market economy, and the corporations will not be able to lobby.

[criza]

Both the Capitalism and Socialism has loopholes and downsides. They have both deficiencies as much as they have both efficiencies. Capitalism seems to be unfavourable on the lower class, thus, hindering them to be on progress since it allows competition. The principle in Capitalism is very simple, the rich will become richer, the poor will become poorer. On the other hand, socialism seems to be too idealistic to the point that we will find it difficult to have a social organization, encouragement of competition, and will become unfair to those have more that will now have less just to be in balance with those who has less. The bottomline here is that, both ends must meet especially that they are considered the extremes of ideology on society.

[glenntalbot]

For me, socialism sounds good but doesn't work and capitalism sounds horrible but works. There is no single country on earth that practice socialism, not even the U.S.S.R was under socialism. Well perhaps Cuba and Moldovia and still they have lots of capitalism stuff

[dippididodaday]

For me, socialism sounds good but doesn't work and capitalism sounds horrible but works. There is no single country on earth that practice socialism, not even the U.S.S.R was under socialism. Well perhaps Cuba and Moldovia and still they have lots of capitalism stuff

Capitalism works beautifully. To illustrate how capitalism is working itself towards its ultimate forthcoming success, look at these interesting statistics from Oxfam, a development charity:

In 2016 the number of billionaires owning as much wealth as half the world’s population were 61

In 2017 the number of billionaires owning as much wealth as half the world’s population were 43 -            a drop of 29,5%

In 2018 the number of billionaires owning as much wealth as half the world’s population were 26 - a further drop of 39,5%

I predict in the 2020 report we are probably going to see top billionaires in the vicinity of maybe 12.87 -   a drop of 49,5%

* for argument sake I shall round the 12.87 top billionaires to a nice round 13, so I will stand with this number for this year (2019)

It is truly remarkable to see the centralizing beauty of capitalism in action.

[mOgliE]

It is truly remarkable to see the centralizing beauty of capitalism in action.

And yet they manage to convince millions of people that capitalism is all about work...

[TECSHARE]

It is truly remarkable to see the centralizing beauty of capitalism in action.

And yet they manage to convince millions of people that capitalism is all about work...

How the fuck do you think capital is created dipshit?

[mOgliE]

How the fuck do you think capital is created dipshit?

Sorry I don't answer to question that makes absolutely no sense.
Especially when they're so polite 

[Privcy Foundation]

For me, socialism sounds good but doesn't work and capitalism sounds horrible but works. There is no single country on earth that practice socialism, not even the U.S.S.R was under socialism. Well perhaps Cuba and Moldovia and still they have lots of capitalism stuff

Capitalism work beautifully. To illustrate how capitalism is working itself towards its ultimate forthcoming success, look at these interesting statistics from Oxfam, a development charity:

In 2016 the number of billionaires owning as much wealth as half the world’s population were 61

In 2017 the number of billionaires owning as much wealth as half the world’s population were 43 -            a drop of 29,5%

In 2018 the number of billionaires owning as much wealth as half the world’s population were 26 - a further drop of 39,5%

I predict in the 2020 report we are probably going to see top billionaires in the vicinity of maybe 12.87 -   a drop of 49,5%

* for argument sake I shall round the 12.87 top billionaires to a nice round 13, so I will stand with this number for this year (2019)

It is truly remarkable to see the centralizing beauty of capitalism in action.

Indeed these billionaires work 100000x harder than these lowly peasants.  They totally deserve that wealth

sarcasm

[KingScorpio]

i am actually fine with both, socialism and capitalism,

in socialism there is also capitalism, but a social one, instead of private bankers like in the usa that privately enrich themselves in socialism there are directorates, that act as capitalists in the economy. they are in general richer than the average population, and the population has to trust them.

the usa has only a successful capitalism, because of successful psychological tricks, global domination, keeping the world to still use the us dollar.

the usa has a very ineffective economy.



regards

[Artemis3]

Everyone should read this book (free download), and debunk socialism to what it really is: Coercion.

Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis


Ludwig von Mises’s Socialism is the most important critical examination of socialism ever written.

Socialism is most famous for Mises’s penetrating economic calculation argument. The book contains much more however. Mises not only shows the impossibility of socialism: he defends capitalism against the main arguments socialists and other critics have raised against it. A centrally planned system cannot substitute some other form of economic calculation for market prices, because no such alternative exists. Capitalism is true economic democracy.

Socialism addresses the contemporary issues of economic inequality and argues that wealth can exist for long periods only to the extent that wealthy producers succeed in satisfying the consumers. Mises shows that there is no tendency to monopoly in a free market system.

Mises analyzes reform measures, such as social security and labor legislation, which in fact serve to impede the efforts of the capitalist system to serve the masses.

Socialism is a veritable encyclopedia of vital topics in the social sciences, all analyzed with Mises’s unique combination of historical erudition and penetrating insight.

The main key point of socialist economies, is to force people do things they naturally don't want to.
Freedom leads to free market economies, and better quality of life to everyone, especially the poor.

Once you read this book, you will never fall for socialist lies ever again.
https://mises.org/library/socialism-economic-and-sociological-analysis

[coins4commies]

^see socialist libertarianism, democratic socialism, market socialism, anarcho-communism, or democratic confederalism.  

Those critiques and almost all other are against state socialism, authoritarianism, command economies and large-scale centralized ownership.  

[TECSHARE]

^see socialist libertarianism, democratic socialism, market socialism, anarcho-communism, or democratic confederalism.  

Those critiques and almost all other are against state socialism, authoritarianism, command economies and large-scale centralized ownership.  

Also unicorns, see unicorns.

[BADecker]

^^^ I tried seeing some unicorns, but then I realized they were Walt Disney cartoon characters.

 

[croato]

Both capitalism and socialism are made to enslave ppl. There is allways elite who rules and slaves who do what they are forced to with laws, monetary system etc. Before we make sort of revolution, throw elites down and implement direct democraty most of us will stay slaves.

[TECSHARE]

Both capitalism and socialism are made to enslave ppl. There is allways elite who rules and slaves who do what they are forced to with laws, monetary system etc. Before we make sort of revolution, throw elites down and implement direct democraty most of us will stay slaves.

These ideologies are tools. Under certain circumstances they can be harmful. They can both be exploited, but Socialism does not create anything on its own, it requires Capitalism to exist. Also Socialism was created by Capitalists as a wealth extraction tool to harvest nations of resources anyway, so the point is somewhat moot.

[BADecker]

Both capitalism and socialism are made to enslave ppl. There is allways elite who rules and slaves who do what they are forced to with laws, monetary system etc. Before we make sort of revolution, throw elites down and implement direct democraty most of us will stay slaves.

Actually, both socialism and capitalism have been made to free people.

The family is the main and basic socialistic unit. The family is made to have children, to free their souls from the slavery of not having a body to operate in.

Then, after the kids grow up, they get into capitalism so they can afford a spouse, so that they can get into socialism, and free some more souls by giving more child-souls bodies.

And the cycle goes on.

Only greedy people don't want to do their fair share in freeing bodiless souls by getting together with a spouse and making babies.

[_Miracle]

And how do you prevent big companies to use their money as leverage and lobby to corrupt your government and create regulations in their favor? :/

With representative democracy, socialism or capitalism is all the same. It leads to concentrate the power in few hands, them being corporations in capitalism and government members in socialism.

The end doesn't change, though capitalism takes longer I'd say.

Notice that the common factor in all the different systems you're talking about is state power. The state, and the corruption it attracts, is the problem, not capitalism or communism.

The inefficiencies created by bureaucratic bloat are destructive to any system as well.
The argument for Capitalism is in the results we are experiencing in quality of life right now.

[KingScorpio]

Both capitalism and socialism are made to enslave ppl. There is allways elite who rules and slaves who do what they are forced to with laws, monetary system etc. Before we make sort of revolution, throw elites down and implement direct democraty most of us will stay slaves.

exactly socialism is effectively just a different form of capitalism, with different people.

there would have been not much difference if the soviet union would have won the cold war.

the soviet union was effektively just a landlocked united states.

they also had capitalists and workers

regards