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Author Topic: As the spammers seem to of started to find meta...  (Read 531 times)
The Pharmacist
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October 09, 2018, 05:06:38 PM
 #21

I would suggest that all the merit sources put a hold on giving merits in meta for a while,
I thought of a merit boycott like this when Theymos made the most recent changes, but I didn't want to make a new thread in Meta about it and thought it might have been too drastic--not that any of the shitposters would have read it anyway to know that they wouldn't be able to earn merits by posting there, nor probably would that even stop them.

In any case, I think it is a good idea, and I think I've stopped giving merits to at least lower-ranked members making posts in Meta.  It's pretty obvious when some of them are fishing for merits, posting crappy analysis on things like plagiarism or stating obvious facts about how the forum works or whatever.

Things have calmed down considerably in the past week, so it's not as much of a concern to me.  Had things remained like they were when the 1 merit requirement went into effect, I'd be all over this.  Maybe the shitposters learned that their efforts were in vain.  It doesn't seem like their Meta posts were/are earning them any merits.

I can't do that, sorry. There are too many good posts here, lots of users doing a great job busting all sorts of mischief and also answering stupid questions.
Yeah, I can't do it either.  But even with some of the lower-ranking memebers busting scams, I can still very easily vow not to give merits to Jr. Members and certainly not to newly-busted Newbie members in merit hell.  That's a no-brainer.

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October 09, 2018, 05:08:53 PM
 #22

Realised how stupid an idea this was as I merited a few posters here that had to be merited

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October 09, 2018, 08:14:25 PM
 #23

totally agree with this point - I nearly sent a merit to a bounty spammer earlier because he made a funny post.
So why didn't you merit it? Just because he is into bounties doesn't make a bad poster. I don't know who you're talking about, but if it were a funny post, then there was some thought behind it, and a merit for that won't make the world upside down or flat for that matter, unless the post was plagiarized or something, then it is a different story. Cause merit is to be given for high quality posts and not post history. Not meriting people who participate bounty in bounties is like not giving citizenship rights to a black man or a muslim guy.

I would suggest that all the merit sources put a hold on giving merits in meta for a while, I know it will be hard as there is a ton of quality posts in here (mainly from Higher ranks).
I think we are overdoing it. Its really not required, and also remember, this is merit that you're talking about- something that is literally created out of thin air and has no physical existence.

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October 09, 2018, 09:11:28 PM
 #24

totally agree with this point - I nearly sent a merit to a bounty spammer earlier because he made a funny post.
So why didn't you merit it? ...merit is to be given for high quality posts and not post history.

In an ideal world I would agree with you that each post should be considered on its own as to whether it is worthy of meriting, but in this particular world a single merit is all that stands between those 1000 post newbies and the ability to spam for sig campaigns once again. Hence why one should have a care before smacking that merit button.

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October 09, 2018, 11:44:27 PM
 #25

Pugman's thought is correct but i guess that is the problem that TMAN is trying to emphasize. Since some of them knows that they can get merit here than the spam boards like BD.  They are starting to populate this section with new threads with different titles but has only one idea(eg: how to get merit)


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October 09, 2018, 11:52:37 PM
 #26

Whenever I come to meta I always see people giving out merit like it's candy. So it's only normal that most people will flock here to try to attain some from people. Besides there is a lot of good and useful information in meta so those people deserve the merit they get in here.
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October 10, 2018, 06:48:48 AM
 #27

anyone else have any thoughts or suggestions around this?
Because of the spam problem, it is a multi-faceted problem, so the solution to spam needs to be done from all factors.

Spam is mostly found in comments ([Econimics]), ([Bitcoin Discussion]) and ([Meta]) This is not surprising, because the free center-based ([Forum Bitcointalk]) also always receives dozens of spam comments every day. Much more - many times more than the original comment.

Therefore it is very necessary in this case:

<> (Filtering):
Examples of one way from technical-based tips. Filtering will not be a complete problem factor, it only helps alleviate spam. Although filtered, the total amount of spam that actually enters every day continues to increase.

<> (non - technical):
which is fundamental in handling spam, and can reduce spam, especially from new high-class players who are passed on to beginners.

I conclude Even though have done various ways / things, in handling spam, every day incessantly continues to be a trick that is widely practiced in this world without being realized, either on Meta or in Local.

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October 10, 2018, 07:16:08 AM
 #28

<...>
I try regularly to merit in other sections, although it is a harder task to perform, trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. Meta is easier to merit simply because there are many good posts in this section that deserve some merit.

One common misconception for many forum members is that Meta is an easy place to gain merits. It is not. Some do earn a fair share here, me included, but for those that roam the board in search for their first merit, this is not the best section to do so. The standard for awarding merit here is way above what is required on Beginners & Help for example.

I’m finishing-off an analysis inspired by some comments I’ve seen indicating that Meta is a place to search for your first Merit. What I’m seeing so far, is that the first merit has historically been earned (in larger absolute values) in Altcoin Ann, Altcoin Discussion, Bitcoin Discussion, Economics and Marketplace for example. Regardless of all, it down to content and not placement that matters most.

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October 10, 2018, 07:28:13 AM
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 #29

I would suggest that all the merit sources put a hold on giving merits in meta for a while,
I thought of a merit boycott like this when Theymos made the most recent changes, but I didn't want to make a new thread in Meta about it and thought it might have been too drastic--not that any of the shitposters would have read it anyway to know that they wouldn't be able to earn merits by posting there, nor probably would that even stop them.



As with any merit giving people should just take it on a case by case basis, but I don't think we should stop giving them out in certain sections, but you can certainly stop giving them for certain types of posts. People either complaining or just 'agreeing' that the merit system is good probably shouldn't get them. If people stopped meriting posts in here then I'd probably have 98% less merits, but things like boycotts only ever work if everyone (or a significant) percentage of people are involved. There'll always be one or two users (or scabs) that make it ineffective and it's impossible to get everyone on board.

totally agree with this point - I nearly sent a merit to a bounty spammer earlier because he made a funny post.
So why didn't you merit it? Just because he is into bounties doesn't make a bad poster. I don't know who you're talking about, but if it were a funny post, then there was some thought behind it, and a merit for that won't make the world upside down or flat for that matter, unless the post was plagiarized or something, then it is a different story. Cause merit is to be given for high quality posts and not post history. Not meriting people who participate bounty in bounties is like not giving citizenship rights to a black man or a muslim guy.



This is why I think the merit requirement should be higher and put up to ten. People would probably actually be more liberal with their merit giving then and giving one out for an entertaining post should be ok, but when one merit is all somebody needs to be able to post it's dicey. One merit is far too easy to get and is too prone to abuse so I personally think we should keep the one merit to become a Junior but remove their signatures and you can only get one when you achieve ten merit and become a Member.

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October 10, 2018, 07:37:11 AM
 #30

The current merit system seems to have made a great improvement. The only thing I would change is to make awards of more than a certain number subject to mod confirmation, maybe 10 or 20 would be a suitable level. There are some good posts in Meta, and I think it should be possible to give the posters suitable merits.

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October 10, 2018, 09:16:26 AM
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 #31

I would suggest that all the merit sources put a hold on giving merits in meta for a while, I know it will be hard as there is a ton of quality posts in here (mainly from Higher ranks). I personally think that a few of us should make the effort to be more active in the beginners sub if we tried it for a month or two and made the merit rain there for any non shitposters it should give us some breathing room in here.

I'd like to promote the beginners' board, political, serious discussion, and the Ivory Tower. I'd be happy to work with you to improve quality there by awarding merits. If you want to discuss it privately, then comment on Blab chat, I still visit that daily.

I think the idea of developing other boards of this forum, especially Beginners & Help, deserves respect. Those forum participants who don`t stand on a selfish foundation, and are willing to invest their strength in the improvement of bitcointalk are commendable. But I very much doubt that the increase in the distribution of merit in the beginners sub will have a positive effect on reducing the amount of spam.

Yes, it’s likely that there will be fewer shitposters in Meta. But won`t be less in total. Merit hunters keep an eye on where the last ones are distributed more generously. At the moment, the field of their "activity" has become Meta board, since it`s here a greater number of those users who write constructive and qualified posts, and hence the main merit sources are focused. But as soon as the main part of the conscious members move to another board (no matter which) and pull the merit sources with them, shitposters will follow them and take new positions by storm.

In order to truly change the forum for the better, we need to think strategically, not tactically. Yes, future-oriented solutions take much longer to see the results, but in turn they`re more sustainable and long-term. I agree that it`s necessary to prohibit wearing signatures to those below the member rank. But besides this, it`s necessary to introduce restrictions for signature campaigns. They need to be moderated and controlled, it`s worth to close those ones which provoke spam, and with the help of ignorant participants, spread it. Not everyone understands that participation in signature campaigns is a privilege. Therefore, it`s necessary to attach it at the legislative level, by introducing more stringent rules.
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October 10, 2018, 09:33:25 AM
Last edit: October 16, 2018, 09:13:05 AM by Jet Cash
 #32

But I very much doubt that the increase in the distribution of merit in the beginners sub will have a positive effect on reducing the amount of spam.

I agree with that, and some of your subsequent comments. However, there are two issues here. One is the reduction of spam, and this seems to be the main focus for everybody. Of course this needs to be controlled, but it may not be the major factor that will restrict the growth of the forum. I think the encouragement and development of new members is far more important, and I have noticed that a few of the spammers seem to have moved away from the darkside, and be joining the bright future for Bitcoin.

If we can start some decent discussions, and make them self-moderated to chuck out the spammers and low value posters, then perhaps we can breathe a bit of life into a couple of the heavily polluted boards.

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October 10, 2018, 09:58:02 AM
 #33

But I very much doubt that the increase in the distribution of merit in the beginners sub will have a positive effect on reducing the amount of spam.

I agree with that, and some of your subsrquent comments. However, there are two issues here. One is the reduction of spam, and this seems to be the main focus for everybody. Of course this needs to be controlled, but it may not be the major factor that will restrict the growth of the forum. I think the encouragement and development of new members is far more important, and I have noticed that a few of the spammers seem to have moved away from the darkside, and be joining the bright future for Bitcoin.

If we can start some decent discussions, and make them self-moderated to chuck out the spammers and low value posters, then perhaps we can breathe a bit of life into a couple of the heavily polluted boards.

I also want to believe that spammers can be “transformed” and higher rank members can accompany them on the true path. This is a very noble desire on your part. I respect you for this and am ready to support you in your endeavors. But no matter what the efforts, very many users just can`t be convinced, since they came to the forum for a completely different purpose. And they don`t need our help and mentoring, since we won`t provide them with the necessary instructions on how to spam more effectively and and won`t explain the requirements for writing absurd and stupid posts to them.

We have different goals and, accordingly, different paths. You can "lure" to the bright side only those who hesitate and doubt the correctness of their actions, but you won`t be able to influence those who don`t care about the rules and the general situation in the forum, who cares only to earn tokens, who only sees this "goal", and doesn`t pay attention to the "obstacles" from the conscious cohort of the bitcointalk site. That`s why I consider it necessary to introduce restrictions, which I mentioned above. Your idea has the full right to exist, I totally support it. But it should be implemented in parallel with the tightening of general rules so that our actions to eliminate spam are much more effective.
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October 10, 2018, 10:26:54 AM
 #34

totally agree with this point - I nearly sent a merit to a bounty spammer earlier because he made a funny post.
So why didn't you merit it? Just because he is into bounties doesn't make a bad poster. I don't know who you're talking about, but if it were a funny post, then there was some thought behind it, and a merit for that won't make the world upside down or flat for that matter, unless the post was plagiarized or something, then it is a different story. Cause merit is to be given for high quality posts and not post history. Not meriting people who participate bounty in bounties is like not giving citizenship rights to a black man or a muslim guy.

I would suggest that all the merit sources put a hold on giving merits in meta for a while, I know it will be hard as there is a ton of quality posts in here (mainly from Higher ranks).
I think we are overdoing it. Its really not required, and also remember, this is merit that you're talking about- something that is literally created out of thin air and has no physical existence.

I personally have no issues with bounty posters if that is only where they post. I have given a few of them merit. If they only post reports in bounty threads then they don't harm the quality of the forum. (It is easy to ignore those threads)

It is the signature spammers and thread bumping bots  that I have issues with. The spam.

Plagiarists will get banned eventually anyway  - with or without merit.

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October 10, 2018, 10:29:57 AM
 #35

Why aren't you making the case that we remove signatures from Bitcoin Discussion since that's the sub board with the most spam and has been ruined the most? Removing signatures from there would surely resolve that?

I have made post about that for disable signature below member rank all over forum. To be honest , removing signature will not resolve spam but it will reduce. Whatever you make rules there will be few rules breaker. Never mind how strong your rules. But remove signature no one will make unnecessary post.




Removing signatures will stop signature spam, which is probably 99% of the spam here. I wouldn't be against removing signatures, but I don't think it's going to happen. If we were going to remove signatures though then I don't think we should do it for everyone as that's unfair to those who have actually contributed something here and it's the spammers who will leave as soon as that happens and will have then ruined it for everyone else. Remove signatures from everyone and require a ridiculous amount of earned merit before you can get one. That seems more fair. You could also let people purchase more donator ranks in addition which get you the benefits of signatures, but I would only be for that if they were sufficiently expensive, so either earn your merit or cough up for a signature. Or go away. Either way you can still post as normal so nobody is effected from that.

But I very much doubt that the increase in the distribution of merit in the beginners sub will have a positive effect on reducing the amount of spam.

I agree with that, and some of your subsrquent comments. However, there are two issues here. One is the reduction of spam, and this seems to be the main focus for everybody. Of course this needs to be controlled, but it may not be the major factor that will restrict the growth of the forum. I think the encouragement and development of new members is far more important, and I have noticed that a few of the spammers seem to have moved away from the darkside, and be joining the bright future for Bitcoin.

If we can start some decent discussions, and make them self-moderated to chuck out the spammers and low value posters, then perhaps we can breathe a bit of life into a couple of the heavily polluted boards.

You simply need to clamp down on the people who are paying people to spam as that's the cause of the issue. If a user signs up here and spams then they get a ban. If these people who keep getting banned are on the same campaign then that campaign should get the ban. Once ICOs start getting banned from activities here they'll soon change their ways because this forum is too valuable to them. They get away with it at the moment because there's no repercussions for them doing a lousy job so they're not magically going to change because that's far too much work for them that they just don't need to do right now.

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October 16, 2018, 08:56:22 AM
 #36

The situation with shit threads is only going to get worse. They are adapting and just posting worthless shit in here now, its a shame as meta will go downhill very quickly if we do not try to counteract it.
I am as guilty as anyone else and a large % of my merits get handed out here, But if we don't want meta to turn into a cesspit then I think we need to make a preemptive strike.

Maybe the worse part is that this is actually work of maybe only few users with multiple account. It not just meta section but also large amount is in altcoin section as well. For Meta I can understand this should be place to ask something useful not to just copy paste multiple questions and answers. I Thing this can be good to consider cuz this is place where usually high ranking members give merit to low ranking members, but from what I was able to read here then this low ranking members disappear from this tread and never ask or post again here.

Im not so qualify for this but for me its better to read first and ask questions later maybe thing that I want to ask is already been asked and answered.

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October 16, 2018, 09:21:27 AM
 #37

Spam is on all the boards, and this is why I decided to become multi-dimensional. I'm multi-board, multi-ethnic, gender neutral, and probably multi-polar as well.

I've decided that it doesn't matter where a comment is posted - it is the poster that matters. I thought at first that following posters rather than topics would mean that I would miss out on some discussions, but in fact the reverse seems to be true. If you find an interesting member, then the chances are that he will post in interesting threads that you may not have noticed.

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October 16, 2018, 10:17:47 AM
 #38

Spam is on all the boards, and this is why I decided to become multi-dimensional. I'm multi-board, multi-ethnic, gender neutral, and probably multi-polar as well.

I've decided that it doesn't matter where a comment is posted - it is the poster that matters. I thought at first that following posters rather than topics would mean that I would miss out on some discussions, but in fact the reverse seems to be true. If you find an interesting member, then the chances are that he will post in interesting threads that you may not have noticed.

I agree with that. I find it more effective and interesting to follow a user who has attracted you, rather than a topic that may seem interesting at first glance, but in the end it turns out to be a hangout for spammers. When I stumble upon a post that interested me, I begin to study the author and his range of interests. In general, users writing interesting and constructive posts, are not limited to one or two topics: they try to develop in different directions. Thus, I find for myself not only interesting discussions in principle, but also I get the opportunity to take part in a conversation with members of the forum who personally interested me. Thus, I have formed a circle of acquaintances I`m interested in communicating with regarding various topics. Perhaps in the future we`ll even become friends thanks to the bitcointalk forum. Search by an interesting user is more focused than thematic and gives much more useful results.
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