2 life sentences +40 years for The Silk Road creator (PETITION FOR CLEMENCY) SIG

[ngm22585]

I am trying to find the right thread please be patient with me as I am new.
Previously posted in meta. (Locked topic there was told to move here)

I recently posted this in another section, someone PM'd me and said to post here let me know if this is the correct area...


Ross's mother has recently created a twitter page and sharing a petition for Ross to recieve Clemency or a reduced sentence for the infamous Silk Road.  He is currently facing 2 life sentences + 40 years . Without Silk Road who knows where BTC would have went. With your help there may still be hope.

People say what about the murder for hire. Those charges were dropped as the FBI agents had access to DPR 2 weeks before that. And was proved in court that they were posting under his profile 2 weeks before. He was charged for the trafficing and is a 1st time offender who caught 2 life sentences +40 years. Because of murder for hire. That was later dropped after he was convicted of LIFE.

PLEASE TAKE A SECOND AND RESEARCH, HIS MOTHER IS SO UPSET, ITS KILLING HER HEALTH HER BODY IS SLOWLY DETERIORATING. DO NOT MAKE HER SUFFER. WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG MAYBE BUT HE DOES NOT DESERVE LIFE. WE NEED TO REACH THE PRESIDENT AND COULD DO IT WITH YOUR HELP. THANKS.

Remember "No Violence No Child PORNOGRAPHY" does that sound like a monster.

"A minute of your life could save the rest of mine. Please sign the petition for my clemency."   -Ross

https://www.change.org/p/freerosspetition-we-seek-potus-s-clemency-for-ross-ulbricht-serving-double-life-for-a-website-realdonaldtrump-free-ross

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealRossU
https://mobile.twitter.com/Free_Ross

If this is the wrong section please direct me to the correct area!!!!

https://freeross.org
https://freeross.org/railroaded/

I'm sorry - but you legitimately think that he deserves clemency?  Are you completely informed about the situation?  In my opinion, Ross is not completely innocent.

No!!! But I do believe he deserves a reduced sentence. The man who raped an murdered my Aunt recieved 15 years.... Shits fucked up with the justice system. If ross did murder for hire why did the government drop all accusations and just STOPPED PURSUING IT like someone else mentioned?  He never forced anyone to buy or sell drugs. If they decided to just WALK AWAY he did not go kill their family. In my eyes he was a first time offender /drug dealer and should do a dime at most!

He is guilty of Silk Road and deserves some punishment. But life?? It is unreasonable!

Ah I understand.  Thanks for the clarification.

[1714702146]

1714702146

[pixie85]

He profited off the game and got greedy, Paid to have people killed.  He's a gangster. You says it was just for running a website, no it wasn't just for that. He facilitated as the creator of this website, the buying and selling of drugs, and black market activities internationally. Thats illegal. He broke laws and he got caught. Yeah i get it, it's cool he started this whole new era of Black market E-commerce, but fuck man, he got caught breaking the LAW. He unlocked pandora's box in some sense. Pros and cons but i'm looking at the aspect of him breaking the law which he did. So that's why they put him in there to rot. Of course now we know the threat of punishment does not deter crime, but when has that stopped the US govt from locking people up and enslaving them.

Haha. You're talking like Breaking the law is something incredible. People, including you, are breaking the law many times each year by jaywalking, driving over the speed limit, not paying tickets and taxes, smoking weed. In most countries you don't even spend a day in jail for doing it.
He broke the law, that's a fact, but I can't imagine someone getting a life sentence in any European country for creating a website. It's restricted only to most dangerous, hardened criminals. Even murderers get between 15 and 25 years in prison.

[gentlemand]

He broke the law, that's a fact, but I can't imagine someone getting a life sentence in any European country for creating a website. It's restricted only to most dangerous, hardened criminals. Even murderers get between 15 and 25 years in prison.

It was more, far more, than just a website.

And the chances are that if he'd been another nationality he would've wound up being extradited to the US anyway.

Anyone who runs a dark market now will get a few years. Anyone who was the first to do it would've been in bottomlessly deep shit no matter where they are.

[ngm22585]

He profited off the game and got greedy, Paid to have people killed.  He's a gangster. You says it was just for running a website, no it wasn't just for that. He facilitated as the creator of this website, the buying and selling of drugs, and black market activities internationally. Thats illegal. He broke laws and he got caught. Yeah i get it, it's cool he started this whole new era of Black market E-commerce, but fuck man, he got caught breaking the LAW. He unlocked pandora's box in some sense. Pros and cons but i'm looking at the aspect of him breaking the law which he did. So that's why they put him in there to rot. Of course now we know the threat of punishment does not deter crime, but when has that stopped the US govt from locking people up and enslaving them.

Haha. You're talking like Breaking the law is something incredible. People, including you, are breaking the law many times each year by jaywalking, driving over the speed limit, not paying tickets and taxes, smoking weed. In most countries you don't even spend a day in jail for doing it.
He broke the law, that's a fact, but I can't imagine someone getting a life sentence in any European country for creating a website. It's restricted only to most dangerous, hardened criminals. Even murderers get between 15 and 25 years in prison.

I don't think "creating a website" adequately describes the situation at hand, in my opinion.

[GoldenLad]

2 years life sentences just because he runs a dark website? Well, in as much as the petition might help,  many people might not want to participate because of the fear of being tagged as members and users of the website. And I guess why he was given the two years sentence is because he knew the site was being used for illegal activities but still runs it.

You ending sentences says it all! He runs a dark net website which is against the law, so he deserves and should serve his punishment!

His case is not different from that of another dark web site "Alpha...something " (I can't really remember the full name). I read in the news that the owner was caught who took his own life in the  prison.  He would have probably said that he just open the site and never sold anything and defend his right. No! he took his own life because he knew the implications of what he has down. 

If the court truly found him guilty, no amount of petition can save him, he should serve his punishment.

[bitbunnny]

Dark web markets are one of the biggest reasons why Bitcoin came on the black list of many. Some people still think if Bitcoin is used for illegal goods and services it's illegal itself.
Also some think in a wrong way that tsking down illegal dark web narkets and putting their creators and runners into jail it's an action against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. But that isn't so and to my opinion someone who runs places where you can buy drugs, weapons, child pornography and similar deserves to be punished and that will not harm Bitcoin, just the opposite.

[theymos]

It's very clear that they were trying to get him in prison ASAP in order to make an example of him, and so they fixed the whole process. I think that he will probably get released eventually due to the mountain of process violations and the fact that he was only convicted of non-violent crimes. Maybe in the end he'll end up spending less time in prison than if he'd taken the plea bargain.

As an anarcho-capitalist, I believe that there was nothing unethical about the Silk Road. That said, I think that the whole freedom-fighter angle is a bit of a stretch. If I wanted to be an anti-government activist by means of a darknet site, I'd:
1) Recognize that current anonymity tech is extremely weak, and maintain a constant samurai mindset of "I'm already dead / in prison".
2) Not make any money from the site. This would allow the site to be more effective, it'd make detection much more difficult, and it'd be a bit of a defense in court.

If you do drug transactions, intentional tax evasion, etc., then I feel like you're mainly just trying to make money, and the idea that it's not unethical (which I agree with) and is a form of civil disobedience is just something that you use to deceive yourself into thinking that it's a good idea when in reality it's just an extremely stupid way of trying to make money. If you want to fight for freedom, pick a better hill to die upon IMO.


On the murder-for-hire accusation, it's important to remember that he was never convicted of that, and AFAIK nothing like that was a part of the Silk Road site. Though I have some non-public info which makes me slightly more inclined to believe the accusation, and if it's true, then that's completely unethical, of course. (Not worth 2 life sentences, though.)

BTW, has anyone read Curtis Green's book about this?


It's weird how they're trying to point fingers at Mark Karpeles. I really doubt that he had any involvement.

[AGD]

OP. Do you have any proof of your claim, that the 2 convicted agents had access on Ross U. computer and have been tampering evidence on it?

[hilariousetc]

He broke the law, that's a fact, but I can't imagine someone getting a life sentence in any European country for creating a website. It's restricted only to most dangerous, hardened criminals. Even murderers get between 15 and 25 years in prison.

It was more, far more, than just a website.

And the chances are that if he'd been another nationality he would've wound up being extradited to the US anyway.

He could have fought extradition. If I was going to run something like a darknet site I'd do it from a country that doesn't have an extradition process with the States at least.

Dark web markets are one of the biggest reasons why Bitcoin came on the black list of many. Some people still think if Bitcoin is used for illegal goods and services it's illegal itself.
Also some think in a wrong way that tsking down illegal dark web narkets and putting their creators and runners into jail it's an action against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. But that isn't so and to my opinion someone who runs places where you can buy drugs, weapons, child pornography and similar deserves to be punished and that will not harm Bitcoin, just the opposite.

Silk Road and darknet markets also had a huge part to play in the growth and usage of bitcoin. In fact, I first heard about Bitcoin due to the media coverage of Silk Road.

BTW, has anyone read Curtis Green's book about this?

No, but I'd like to. I'm not sure if it's available online yet. The website he gave on a podcast he was on recently isn't online yet and the ebook link on Amazon is dead:

https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Road-Takedown-Curtis-Green-ebook/dp/B07GFJ23RN

And the physical copy is sold out or not available: https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Road-Takedown-Curtis-Green/dp/1726077470/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538736407&sr=8-1&keywords=Silk+Road+Takedown

He did mention he's recording the audiobook version so I'll probably just grab that from Audible when it becomes available: https://twitter.com/ilovepoker/status/1043364624039440391

[eternalgloom]

He broke the law, that's a fact, but I can't imagine someone getting a life sentence in any European country for creating a website. It's restricted only to most dangerous, hardened criminals. Even murderers get between 15 and 25 years in prison.

It was more, far more, than just a website.

And the chances are that if he'd been another nationality he would've wound up being extradited to the US anyway.

Anyone who runs a dark market now will get a few years. Anyone who was the first to do it would've been in bottomlessly deep shit no matter where they are.

Very true, it was pretty obvious that he was to be made an example for anyone trying to copy him.
We all saw how that turned out  They basically cut off the hydra's head and several others came in its place...

The sentencing is just ridiculous imo, even if it was true that he tried to have people killed.
Sure, attempted murder should land you in prison for a couple of years at minimum, but a life sentence is too much even for those serious accusations.
Just my two cents though... I'm sure that people will disagree.

[hold-coins]

OP. Do you have any proof of your claim, that the 2 convicted agents had access on Ross U. computer and have been tampering evidence on it?

the Murder for higher being dropped should be enough proof. If the government is going to lock someone up for Life they have to be guilty buy unreasonably doubt. they based the guilty verdict and conviction off of pending charges (the murder for hire) off of a crime that was later dropped. that alone should be truth

[jseverson]

If the court truly found him guilty, no amount of petition can save him, he should serve his punishment.

This is true. One of the many reasons courts exist is to avoid mob rule. Petitions can't overturn court decisions. They can probably prompt a review, but I don't think that's very likely in this case (in the near future anyway).

My personal opinion is that he tried to make money off of illegal shit, so he should deal with the consequences. That being said, the consequences seem to be overkill in this case. It should definitely get another look.

[AGD]

OP. Do you have any proof of your claim, that the 2 convicted agents had access on Ross U. computer and have been tampering evidence on it?

the Murder for higher being dropped should be enough proof. If the government is going to lock someone up for Life they have to be guilty buy unreasonably doubt. they based the guilty verdict and conviction off of pending charges (the murder for hire) off of a crime that was later dropped. that alone should be truth

It was dropped, because there was no evidence that the actual murders took place and not because the corrupt cops were tampering something on Ross U's computer. Ross still intended to kill 6 people to protect his 'drug empire', which has been clear from the chatlogs, which were obv. not tampered.

[hilariousetc]

The sentencing is just ridiculous imo, even if it was true that he tried to have people killed.
Sure, attempted murder should land you in prison for a couple of years at minimum, but a life sentence is too much even for those serious accusations.
Just my two cents though... I'm sure that people will disagree.

The murder for hire charges aren't relevant to the time he got because he wasn't charged for them at his trial, but I don't get why attempting to hire someone to have someone killed is less serious than actual attempted murder. The outcome would have still been the same with a life being lost and that person being responsible for that.

OP. Do you have any proof of your claim, that the 2 convicted agents had access on Ross U. computer and have been tampering evidence on it?

the Murder for higher being dropped should be enough proof.

This isn't proof. Lots of times charges get dropped for a multitude of reasons even if they know the person is guilty of them (or highly likely to be). A lot of plea deals often involve more serious charges being dropped in exchange for a guilty plea on lesser charges. The state doesn't care as long as they get you locked up with as less fuss as possible.

they based the guilty verdict and conviction off of pending charges (the murder for hire) off of a crime that was later dropped.

Says who? They convicted him of money laundering and running a darknet market amongst other things. It's running the darknet market that got him life, as harsh as that may be.

It was dropped, because there was no evidence that the actual murders took place and not because the corrupt cops were tampering something on Ross U's computer. Ross still intended to kill 6 people to protect his 'drug empire', which has been clear from the chatlogs, which were obv. not tampered.

I don't think it was dropped because of that. Attempting to have someone killed regardless of it happening is still a serious crime. It was probably dropped because they didn't need it to send him down and the murder for hires did include the corrupt agents (from what I remember) so it could have even been entrapment, but they probably wanted to leave the corruption of the agents out of the trial if they could for obvious reasons.

[hold-coins]

I don't think it was dropped because of that. Attempting to have someone killed regardless of it happening is still a serious crime. It was probably dropped because they didn't need it to send him down and the murder for hires did include the corrupt agents (from what I remember) so it could have even been entrapment, but they probably wanted to leave the corruption of the agents out of the trial if they could for obvious reasons.

I can agree with that, they did not need it to send him away. I also agree with them leaving out the corrupt agents for obviouse reasons.

So my question to you would be do you believe 2 life sentences + 40 years was a reasonable punishment? I won't judge either way I am just curious as to if you agree with it yes or no?

[hilariousetc]

I can agree with that, they did not need it to send him away. I also agree with them leaving out the corrupt agents for obviouse reasons.

So my question to you would be do you believe 2 life sentences + 40 years was a reasonable punishment? I won't judge either way I am just curious as to if you agree with it yes or no?

No. I don't believe anyone should be locked up for life other than murderers, and especially not for merely running a dark net market (and if that's all we're arguing about here). I think there's a double standard in that he got a harsher punishment than some of the actual drug dealers and traffickers who used the site. I don't really think there's anything morally wrong with drug dealing, as long as you are A) Not forcing anyone to do drugs or are pushing harder drugs on someone, and B) don't commit acts of violence due to your business, but obviously the government doesn't agree with that and their punishments are harsh for it and everyone knows that and unless the laws change then the harsh punishments won't either. I guess there's been some progress in the States with the legalisation or decriminalisation of cannabis, so maybe that will lead to relaxed laws on other 'lighter' drugs but only time will tell. The war on drugs is an obviously failure so they probably should just give up and let people buy drugs from darknet markets but that's probably too scary a thought for the average person or politician, but regardless of what they do people are always going to be buying and selling drugs regardless of the punishments or consequences and the sooner they accept that the better in my opinion.

[darkangel11]

I've always found it completely ridiculous that in the American justice system you can get additional time above the maximum per criminal act. When they recite the verdict they always say 1 count of this 2 counts of that and so on. I've participated in a number of cases at EU courts and here if you deal drugs and the sentence is for instance 2-10 years, you can't get anything above that. In the US that sentence can be multiplied if they are able to make an "extreme dealer" out of you and break your actions into multiple offences As a result they can get you to serve 50 years in prison if they choose to for an offence that in other countries would put you away for 10.

Also, their sentences higher than life are laughable. How can a sane person give a verdict of 2 life sentences and 40 years? After the mere 40 years in the shitholes that US prisons are Ross will be dead anyway.

[hilariousetc]

Theymos posted this earlier:

In the "Railroaded" series of videos, it's implied that bitcointalk.org was at one time owned by Mark Karpelès. This is wrong. Mark provided free hosting for bitcointalk.org from 2011 to 2013, which I announced publicly:

Change of hosting

Mark Karpeles is now hosting the forum's server. The forum is still owned by Sirius, as it has always been. There will be no policy changes.

I'm going to move the forum to a much faster server within the next few days. [...]
The old server was provided by MtGox. Thanks to them for supporting the forum for so long!

The new server is provided by Private Internet Access, a Bitcoin-accepting VPN service.  Thanks!

Mark never had any ownership or control over bitcointalk.org's operation.

The thread is locked so you can discuss this info in here, but is further evidence that misinformation is being spread by the 'Railroaded' series.

Also, their sentences higher than life are laughable. How can a sane person give a verdict of 2 life sentences and 40 years? After the mere 40 years in the shitholes that US prisons are Ross will be dead anyway.

Well it is silly, but what actually is a life sentence in the US? A life sentence in the UK is usually 30 years I believe, and not actually until you die. Sometimes you can get out in half of that time depending on the parole setting but many life sentences carry a 'minimum' term of 15 years and you can get out after that due to good behaviour or whatever.

[gentlemand]

Well it is silly, but what actually is a life sentence in the US? A life sentence in the UK is usually 30 years I believe, and not actually until you die. Sometimes you can get out in half of that time depending on the parole setting but many life sentences carry a 'minimum' term of 15 years and you can get out after that due to good behaviour or whatever.

'Life' in the UK has only meant life in less than 100 or so cases. You'd have to be Satan personified to get it.

In the US life without parole means exactly that which is what he got. They seem awful keen to dole those sentences out too. Contrast that with Norway where it's not possible to serve more than 21 years. They'll probably have to come up with some interesting ideas to deal with that charming Breivik character.

[hilariousetc]

Third episode is out now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDme9kRtdwQ

In this episode they use the fact that someone logged into DPRs account after he was arrested as proof that there's more than one DPR. Couldn't or wouldn't that have been any of the feds who have access to the account?

In next weeks episode: "How many DPRs were there?" That should be interesting. I'm hoping I don't get accused  . Are you worried, theymos?  

Well it is silly, but what actually is a life sentence in the US? A life sentence in the UK is usually 30 years I believe, and not actually until you die. Sometimes you can get out in half of that time depending on the parole setting but many life sentences carry a 'minimum' term of 15 years and you can get out after that due to good behaviour or whatever.

'Life' in the UK has only meant life in less than 100 or so cases. You'd have to be Satan personified to get it.

In the US life without parole means exactly that which is what he got. They seem awful keen to dole those sentences out too. Contrast that with Norway where it's not possible to serve more than 21 years. They'll probably have to come up with some interesting ideas to deal with that charming Breivik character.

Prison is a business in the States, so it pays to keep people locked up, but that's one of the things that is fundamentally wrong with the prison system. There's no way in hell anyone should be allowed to make money from people being incarcerated because obviously that's just going to lead to corruption.