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Author Topic: Theft-Resistant "Specific Use Only" Wallets  (Read 1920 times)
Kluge (OP)
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March 08, 2014, 12:55:44 AM
 #21


I could see a gift card being an okay solution if it were instead, say, redeemable private currencies I could redeem for a currency of my choice, but I was thinking more along the lines of something I could use at any legitimate merchant, but not a fencer, illegal gun salesman, or street-corner drug salesman.

What you are seeking is the current credit/debit card system with reversible transactions an no anonymity.  Such as system currently does not allow payments to individual private persons.   I normally can't meet with a person that I find on craigslist selling an item I want and pay him with my debit card.

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When I was thinking about this, I was envisioning a rubber hose kind of scenario, where bitcoins were being demanded of me, but it would be impossible for me to send them to the thief, so threats to make me hand money over to him would be ineffective since I couldn't send money to his address. I could give him the physical wallet hardware and password, but then he'd have to only use it at registered merchants, where the blacklisting and unblinding, as you mention, would come into play.

You shouldn't be carrying devices that have access private keys to large amounts of bitcoin, so they can be coerced from you.   The average person doesn't carry large amounts of cash so it minimizes the risk.  The risk vs. reward ratio should be large enough to deter most criminals.   If you are uncomfortable with carrying around a certain amount of cash, you should also be uncomfortable with carrying around the private keys to the same amount of bitcoin.

I would really prefer that no amount could be easily coerced from me, and I've never mentioned reversibility, which this scheme would not enable. Fungibility isn't really limited since the limits can be easily reversed once you arrive home.
amspir
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March 08, 2014, 01:13:11 AM
 #22

Fungibility isn't really limited since the limits can be easily reversed once you arrive home.

But fungibility IS limited while you are not at home.   No buying a hotdog from the street corner vendor that doesn't have the approved limited-fungibility-bitcoin terminal, or the girl scout selling girl scout cookies until after you get back home and convert it.

There is really no need to have such a system until bitcoin becomes the only form of payment.  In spite of anarcho-libertarian wishing for this in the near future, it's not gonna happen for a long, long, time.  VISA/Mastercard's legacy system would be sufficient, but I'm sure they would rather have your money under their control (as a demand deposit or credit) as it would be currently than sharing partial control with them.


Kluge (OP)
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March 08, 2014, 01:17:06 AM
 #23

Fungibility isn't really limited since the limits can be easily reversed once you arrive home.

But fungibility IS limited while you are not at home.   No buying a hotdog from the street corner vendor that doesn't have the approved limited-fungibility-bitcoin terminal, or the girl scout selling girl scout cookies until after you get back home and convert it.

There is really no need to have such a system until bitcoin becomes the only form of payment.  In spite of anarcho-libertarian wishing for this in the near future, it's not gonna happen for a long, long, time.  VISA/Mastercard's legacy system would be sufficient, but I'm sure they would rather have your money under their control (as a demand deposit or credit) as it would be currently than sharing partial control with them.
I don't disagree (and I was definitely fantasizing), but we will have local anomaly cases where BTC acceptance is strangely high, maybe not always German in the future. Cheesy

Better calmly prepare for the future than scramble to fix the past, yeah?
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March 08, 2014, 03:06:39 AM
Last edit: March 08, 2014, 03:16:44 AM by dexX7
 #24

Somewhat related:

Check out the two wallets in my signature. https://api.trustedcoin.com//#/ provides a service that locks payouts for 24 hours by using 2-out-of-3 multi signature transactions where the user holds two key - one for the online computer, the other one as secure backup/offline key and they hold one.

The payout is initiated by the user and they sign and broadcast the transaction after 24 hours. The user is informed via email and sms, if a payout is initiated and has 24 hours to cancel. The service provider has never the authority to spend coins without the user's approval nor is the user dependent on the serivce provider.

Within the Master protocol there are going to be "saving wallets", but that is limited to the Mastercoin ecosystem of course. Preliminary spec can be found here: https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec#transactions-to-limit-funds-theft-prevention

The ideas there could be transformed into an oracle service and applied to real BTC with a similar service as mentioned above. Something like "sign only, if recipient address is X" should certainly be possible with a 2-out-of-3 signatures approach.

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March 11, 2014, 04:43:47 PM
 #25

Have you tried BitGo (https://bitgo.com)? BitGo is a theft-resistant wallet that uses multi-sig built on P2SH. 3 keys issued, 2 required to sign any transaction. One key is stored with BitGo, one with the user, and one offline. Security of multi-sig with the ease of use of online/mobile access.

We've published a whitepaper (https://www.bitgo.com/p2sh_safe_address) on our tech and open-sourced a lot of components. Our tech was built by a team compiled of veterans in online security and digital currency.

In addition to the security of multi-sig, our platform enables additional protections like spending limits, network fraud detection, and whitelist addresses. This means that you could design a specific-use wallet that can has limits on how much can be spent in a day or where you could spend your funds. If a thief took your wallet/phone, they would be stopped by these protections and you could move your funds to a new wallet later on.

Please give BitGo a try and let us know what you think! https://bitgo.com
Learn more about BitGo at http://bitgoinc.com

Securing the World's Bitcoin https://bitgo.com
Kluge (OP)
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March 11, 2014, 05:51:47 PM
 #26

Have you tried BitGo (https://bitgo.com)? BitGo is a theft-resistant wallet that uses multi-sig built on P2SH. 3 keys issued, 2 required to sign any transaction. One key is stored with BitGo, one with the user, and one offline. Security of multi-sig with the ease of use of online/mobile access.

We've published a whitepaper (https://www.bitgo.com/p2sh_safe_address) on our tech and open-sourced a lot of components. Our tech was built by a team compiled of veterans in online security and digital currency.

In addition to the security of multi-sig, our platform enables additional protections like spending limits, network fraud detection, and whitelist addresses. This means that you could design a specific-use wallet that can has limits on how much can be spent in a day or where you could spend your funds. If a thief took your wallet/phone, they would be stopped by these protections and you could move your funds to a new wallet later on.

Please give BitGo a try and let us know what you think! https://bitgo.com
Learn more about BitGo at http://bitgoinc.com
Interesting. Will check it out. Thanks!
Beliathon
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March 11, 2014, 05:55:02 PM
 #27

...could an organization pop up which, say, represents all Bitcoin merchants in North America - or perhaps BitPay could handle this all centrally...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp0cg91rK2o

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
jayson001
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March 11, 2014, 06:46:13 PM
 #28

anything goes online is not 100% safe. Anyone heard of the hardware btc wallet?
dexX7
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March 11, 2014, 06:55:12 PM
Last edit: March 11, 2014, 07:12:46 PM by dexX7
 #29


anything goes online is not 100% safe.

How about you two realize what you are talking about before posting nonsense?

I'd be very interested in knowing how a 2-of-3 approach adds insecurity?

By the way, I'm not affiliated with BitGo, but I summoned this guy from Reddit.

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