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Author Topic: Bias on giving merit, forum negativity and positivity to the newbies.  (Read 656 times)
Coolcryptovator
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October 23, 2018, 06:47:30 AM
 #21

sent merits to everyone posting other than OP... maybe he will get the message now?

Should get. If OP want to change his posting behaviour then he should learn from here. It's really abused meta by merit and ban post. Especially from newbie. I don't think it's very hard to earn 1 merit to become Jr. Member for a quality poster. I believe admin always try to encourage send merit to newbie. Especially he gave instruction to merit source (imo).


I did not see any spam comment or spam post from high-rank member yesterday I read one legendary member are keep spamming but many people are saying the legendary account was compromised by the hacker or he/she sell the legendary account to a newbie.

Wrong , Legendary doesn't mean he wouldn't spam. Legendary equal not a quality poster. But every quality poster is a Legend. There is lot's of legendary, they haven't got even single merit. But there is so many new account who have earned more than his rank. I will say they are real Legend.

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DragonSlayer2018
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October 23, 2018, 06:59:54 AM
 #22

Quote
Wrong , Legendary doesn't mean he wouldn't spam. Legendary equal not a quality poster. But every quality poster is a Legend.
Quote
There is lot's of legendary, they haven't got even single merit.
But there is so many new account who have earned more than his rank. I will say they are real Legend.

Maybe your right as you said
Quote
There is lot's of legendary, they haven't got an even single merit.
how they become legendary if don't have any single merit? can you please explain to me sorry for my question I just want my mind clear.
Findingnemo
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October 23, 2018, 07:47:56 AM
 #23

 
Quote
There is lot's of legendary, they haven't got an even single merit.
how they become legendary if don't have any single merit? can you please explain to me sorry for my question I just want my mind clear.
At the time of merit system was introduced people got airdropped merits according to their ranks.

  • Member        = 10 merits
  • Full member  = 100 merits
  • Sr member    = 250 merits
  • Hero Member = 500 merits
  • Legendary     = 1000 merits

So if the person was legendary when the time of merit introduction then they got 1000 merits by default.

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October 23, 2018, 08:18:40 AM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (2), hilariousetc (1)
 #24

OP, stop whining about getting merits. The unfairness you talk about is not towards only you but to every other member of the forum as well. Initially people were giving out merits to people for testing the system and thus some threads here got merited like anything. Now the distribution of merits changed a bit and people are getting reluctant to merit newbies who dont read rules or contribute to discussions.

A good example of debunking your myth is my own account. I am Hero member here but how many merits I need to reach Legendary? more than 300!
And do you see me getting merits everyday for merit sources? NO!


Do you think life is fair for me or you who need 1/3rd of it to reach a good rank like Full Member? ("good" considering paid signature for which you are here)

Possible solutions:
1. STFU & GTFO.
2. Leave the forum
3. Create your own forum. Grin

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Coolcryptovator
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October 23, 2018, 08:29:15 AM
 #25

Maybe your right as you said
Quote
There is lot's of legendary, they haven't got an even single merit.
how they become legendary if don't have any single merit? can you please explain to me sorry for my question I just want my mind clear.

Surprised! Even you don't know the history of merit but you are complaining and concerning about system ? Read this post how are they got merit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg28856522#msg28856522

At least use search button before you posting about merit system. You need to acquire enough knowledge before posting.

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October 23, 2018, 08:40:01 AM
 #26

And if you are a newbie trying hard to start a thread for merits then you will end up getting a lot of negative reply. I have seen some post started with newbies or lower ranks in their merit related post and definitely get a negative feed back.

That's the problem. Most newbies start threads in order to get merits. Most high rank users start threads in order to initiate an interesting and useful discussion. That`s why newbies get a negative feedback, and higher ranks get merit.
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October 23, 2018, 09:59:05 AM
 #27

OP why you put the blame on the system and not to the abusers? Merit sources have to deal with alts, trolls, and account farmers. Many said that the percentage of "real newbies" were very low compared to the "fake newbies". Because of all these craps, I also find it difficult to spend my sMerit on newbies. You may call it biased but whatever.

However, once I know (for sure) that a newbie is a "real newbie" then I won't hesitate to give my sMerit to his quality post. I started as a newbie and got more than 200 merits. Kindly use this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5039605.0 to remove any newbies doubt.

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cryptovigi
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October 23, 2018, 10:17:23 AM
Last edit: October 23, 2018, 10:55:00 AM by cryptovigi
 #28

...
NEWBIE + GOOD POST = IGNORE
HIGH RANK + GOOD POST = MERITS
...

Yep being Newbie or low ranked user is harder to get merit - its true but it's not imposible. Being the "fresh one" puts you on the spotlight and you have to work a bit harder than "oldboys" but it's just like in real life. When you are newcomer you have to show at first yourself from the good side.  So probably you won't get merit for the first good post or second one but when you write something really good noone would look at your rank and you will get plenty of merits.

Look at these posts below - they were wrote by newbies or low ranked users and some of ranked users found them very good and gave 20 or 50 merits to reward them:



And I also could show you a thousands good posts of ranked member which hasn't been rewarded but you can find them everywhere....
@xtraelv shoed you some of them:





.




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October 23, 2018, 10:32:35 AM
 #29

Maybe your right as you said
Quote
There is lot's of legendary, they haven't got an even single merit.
how they become legendary if don't have any single merit? can you please explain to me sorry for my question I just want my mind clear.

Surprised! Even you don't know the history of merit but you are complaining and concerning about system ? Read this post how are they got merit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg28856522#msg28856522

At least use search button before you posting about merit system. You need to acquire enough knowledge before posting.
Sorry Actually I'm not complaning ask you can see my history I'm committing I'm belong to complain because I'm newbie we are both newbie and I'm the the OP here.
LoyceV
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October 23, 2018, 10:38:04 AM
Merited by Foxpup (5), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #30

First, let's get clear which (opening) posts you use as examples (suchmoon already did this but I'll embed the images anyway):
1. [LEARN] BBCode Lessons & Tutorials [+tutorial videos!]: 15842 views.


Quote
2. Report plagiarism (copy/pasting) here. Calling for Mod action: please permban: 22399 views.


Quote
3. LoyceV's Merit data analysis (full data since Jan. 24, 2018; not just 120 days): 3875 views.


I didn't know the last screenshot was from my topic until I found it through the Merit history. I'll comment on both threads created by me:
2. The OP itself clearly isn't worth that much Merit, but there's more to it: Merit means it's worth reading, and considering the topic has 972 posts, almost all of them on-topic (otherwise I'd report them to have them removed), and lead to hundreds if not thousands of forum abusers getting banned, it's definitely worth reading.
3. Do you have any idea how many hours I've invested in creating that thread? Have you seen the weekly updates for more than 6 months, and the enormous amount of data I've processed into human readable format? I didn't keep track, but in total I've spent many dozens of hours on it.
That being said, time spent on it's own isn't enough to receive Merit. It has to be useful too.

While you're pointing at me, did you know that only 0.26% of my posts made before and 10.45% of my posts made after the introduction of Merit received Merit? I've seen plenty of Newbies (with worthy posts) who have a higher percentage.

Now, back to gellany32: Your argument would be a lot stronger if you could show 3 posts made my Newbies of equal quality that didn't receive any Merit.
User Loycev has commendable post and there is no arguing with that. The only thing i empasized the post is that if you are a high ranks bias meriting would be possible and if you were lower rank you will be less likely to receive one.
I'll make you a deal: Find 3 high-quality posts made by Newbies without any Merit, and show them in this thread. If I agree, I'll merit all three of them, and your post too.
You're not a spammer, so by that figure, you shouldn't be restricted by Merit. However, your posts look like you only made them to earn merit. Take this example: you're not adding any new information, you're just rephrasing text and numbers from other users.
Instead of pointing at high ranking users and complaining about Merit, try to add something helpful to the forum.

Now, can we be more friendly? I  am started to worry now the possible replies.
Me not sending you Merit doesn't mean I'm unfriendly. Merit was created to stop spam, and nobody is going to miss spammers.

You can check this thread, Bitcoin Technical Support. There's a lot of newbies getting merited by higher rank member, why? its because they don't care about merits and they really deserves to be merited anyways. So there's no bias whatsoever. If higher ranks really see newbies showing quality post worth of at least 1 merit then they will give it hands down.
I love meriting new users that show they aren't spammers! That's what this forum needs, and if they stick around, they'll be self-made high ranking users a few years from now.

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October 23, 2018, 10:39:53 AM
Merited by Upgrade00 (1)
 #31

<...>
Look at it another way round: If a Newbie or a Jr. Member created decent posts in places other than spam-megathreads, then he is likely to stand-out of the crowd very soon, since, to be frank, there just are not that many lower ranked members that make half-decent posts.

That is really an opportunity that one can grab, and all it requires is investing some time and, of course, having a bit of savoir-faire in him (logically, if the latter is absent, then there is not much hope). Obviously, one can’t expect to be merited on the first decent post he makes, but being consistent at it over a few days or weeks at most should do the job.

Now the common denominator of lower ranks (with decent exceptions for sure) is that they post like there is no tomorrow, with repetitive one-liners day after day. If they posted like the higher ranks that do get merited, then they would have no issue getting merits. There are also many high ranked members that do not get a single merit and wont. Have you noticed those?  Perception in the OP is likely biased too, having focused on observation of decent top ranked posters and likely ignoring the large amounts of them that go unmerited.

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October 23, 2018, 11:08:26 AM
 #32

  Firstly every rank other than newbie has a needed merit to achieve it and to get to junior member you only need on merit and 30 activity that means the forum has giving the newbies like us the lightest task. That only cancels out your allegation of the forum being bias.
If you complain of 1merit what will those that need 100merit or 250merit.
You have to drop this self pity attitude no one is obligated to give you merit you cant get merit by being vindictive on higher ranking member.

I understand making a post that is of quality is not as hard as you think just do a research that will be helpful to someone out there. Don't get too obsessed about the whole system just work harder
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October 23, 2018, 11:11:14 AM
Merited by Foxpup (5)
 #33

I know that it is not good to accuse higher ranks for a bias giving of merits. It is not good to generalize high rank users for the bias of giving merits.

Then why do it? This is just yet another pointless thread whining about nothing and we've been over these arguments dozens of times.

awarding of merit standards will be bend for a bit even if there were mispelled words and grammatical error.

So we shouldn't give merits if there's misspelled words or grammar errors? I think I've met very few people online who have perfect grammar (including myself) and don't make typos every once in a while, but that doesn't change the content of the post. It's the effort and point of the content we should be taking into consideration. As long as a post isn't pure spam or crap then it's up for being merited. Merit is just a system to stop the worse of the worst from rising though the ranks and it works in that respect. Sure, it's not easy to get merit but I don't think it should be given to people just for bashing away at a keyboard.

The users of this photo had a good post and recieved lot of merits and I do not know if there were any lower ranks could be able to receive lots of merits like this.







Some context would be nice. What are we meant to do with three contentless posts? They could be the best or worst posts in the world for all we know and you may or may not have an argument here but context is key.

Edit:  Roll Eyes at the ones you have used as examples. Those are all threads that do deserve lots of merit. I think if a newbie account would have posted them they would have got a similar amount. Believe it or not there are actually newbies that come here and make good to great posts. They're just dwarfed by the gazillions that come here and have no clue what they're meant to be doing here. I've literally seen dozens of newbies come and there first post is what do I do here, or how do I earn, because they've literally just been told they can earn good money here but have no idea what bitcoin is or how they can get it for free, and that's why we need the merit system to curb that behaviour from those sorts of users. If they came here and made a worthwhile thread then I'm sure they'd get appropriate merit, but they usually don't. Stick around and contribute and you'll likely get some pretty fast.

Thus, bias giving of merit will only apply to high ranks users. And if you are a newbie trying hard to start a thread for merits then you will end up getting a lot of negative reply. I have seen some post started with newbies or lower ranks in their merit related post and definitely get a negative feed back.

Negative feedback as in comments? Well, yeah. People are tired of the same old merits make the rich get richer and people only give them to the friends bullshit just because they haven't received any merits. 9 times out of 10 they don't deserve them.

NEWBIE + GOOD POST = IGNORE
HIGH RANK + GOOD POST = MERITS

I wish this would fit in my personal text.

Kinda ironic that you complain about bias but use a very biased selection of threads to complain about without direct links (possibly in attempt to obscure the content in them?)

I know, right? Didn't even include the content of the actual posts. It seems at least one of them is for reporting plagiarism. If someone makes a post that exposes accounts copy and pasting then the time and effort is usually considered meritable. Sometimes people post dozens of accounts in one post, but because you conveniently left out the content we can't possibly comment further on that.

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October 23, 2018, 12:32:10 PM
 #34

I won't say bias. Just that people are a bit lazy. No one wants to dig around to find quality newbie posters. Whereas, hero/legendary members with a ton of green trust, shine among commoners. Also, many newbies post in altcoin/bounty/non-crypto sections where the chances of getting merits are even lower. I don't wanna say it, but a newbie has more chances of getting merits in meta section vs. other sections. Plus merit donors expect exceptionally high quality posts from newbies as they don't want to help rank up spammers or sometimes clever copy-paste posters. I personally prefer to give merits to lower ranked quality posters.

I wouldn't say that Meta is a good place for a newbie to get merits, particularly now that the pity wave of merits after the 1 merit requirement introduction has subsided. Check out DdmrDdmr's thread on where users tend to get their first merits.

The best place for a newbie to be noticed is where they can genuinely contribute. A real newbie (not someone's alt) is unlikely to bring up anything useful in Meta.

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October 23, 2018, 01:52:39 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Foxpup (1), LoyceV (1), morvillz7z (1)
 #35

Well I think the OP is really going of point. Just take me for example I am still a newbie and I got 3merit already.
The forum has been very transparent and straight forward as to regards smerit rewarding.
The fact that you made this post goes to show how unfocused you are. You can't be a shitty poster and expect to get merited for it.
Well you can go ahead and keep making shitty post and let us keep getting the merit

I understand making a post that is of quality is not as hard as you think just do a research that will be helpful to someone out there. Don't get too obsessed about the whole system just work harder

Seriously?
You're an example?


If a transaction goes unconfirmed for too long, it will eventually disappear from the network. Most clients will remove it from their pool of unconfirmed transactions at some point. And yes, the money should return to your account. When most clients have removed it, you can go ahead and send the transaction again, if you wish and I would suggest to use a higher fee. There's not a precise time when the transaction will disappear from the network, it could be days or up to a week. This is why it's always recommended to set a transaction fee.

http://archive.fo/vYeKE#selection-1875.0-1875.409

Most customers will expel it from their pool of unverified exchanges sooner or later. At the point when most customers have evacuated it, you can simply ahead and send the exchange once more, this time with a higher expense. There's not an exact time when the exchange will vanish from the system, it could be days or up to seven days. This is the reason it's constantly prescribed to set an exchange charge.





The Pharmacist
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October 23, 2018, 01:57:28 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #36

Kinda ironic that you complain about bias but use a very biased selection of threads to complain about without direct links (possibly in attempt to obscure the content in them?)
I find the imgur links to be annoying, since that site always loads slowly on my PC--and in this case it's doubly annoying because the context of the merited post is missing.

There probably is a bit of bias toward high-ranked members with good reputations around here, but that's not something that can be proven.  And there are merit sources who have plenty of sMerits to give and are actively looking to help newbies out.  The problem, which has been stated many times in many threads, is that most new accounts these days tend to be people who have nothing useful to say but who are compelled by signature campaigns to come up with things to say anyway.  They're also usually not writing in their native language, and the result is that even if you can make heads or tails of what they're trying to say, the post is devoid of anything useful.

Thus, while that bias toward more well-known, well-respected members might exist, the bigger issue is the paucity of quality posts made by lower-ranked members.  If more newbies made better posts (and if you didn't have to wade through a morass of shitposts to find them), they'd be earning the merits they so desperately crave.

I wouldn't say that Meta is a good place for a newbie to get merits, particularly now that the pity wave of merits after the 1 merit requirement introduction has subsided.
Meta is probably the worst section for newbies to earn merits, but they keep trying because they see a lot of older members earning merits here--but older members can see right through most noobs' intentions when they post in Meta, especially when they create threads about merits.

I understand making a post that is of quality is not as hard as you think just do a research that will be helpful to someone out there. Don't get too obsessed about the whole system just work harder
This is a great example of generic crap that keeps getting written by noobs.  Bad English, hard to read, and what's being said in the post has been written by more noobs than I can count. 

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October 23, 2018, 02:13:02 PM
Merited by Foxpup (1)
 #37

Seriously?
You're an example?

That was NSFW... my hysterical laughter earned me some weird looks.

Although to be fair, DOGEWHATSHERNAME also plagiarised it:

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/21901/what-happens-if-your-transaction-is-never-confirmed

vit05
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October 23, 2018, 03:09:45 PM
 #38

I won't say bias. Just that people are a bit lazy. No one wants to dig around to find quality newbie posters. Whereas, hero/legendary members with a ton of green trust, shine among commoners. Also, many newbies post in altcoin/bounty/non-crypto sections where the chances of getting merits are even lower. I don't wanna say it, but a newbie has more chances of getting merits in meta section vs. other sections. Plus merit donors expect exceptionally high quality posts from newbies as they don't want to help rank up spammers or sometimes clever copy-paste posters. I personally prefer to give merits to lower ranked quality posters.

I wouldn't say that Meta is a good place for a newbie to get merits, particularly now that the pity wave of merits after the 1 merit requirement introduction has subsided. Check out DdmrDdmr's thread on where users tend to get their first merits.

The best place for a newbie to be noticed is where they can genuinely contribute. A real newbie (not someone's alt) is unlikely to bring up anything useful in Meta.

Exactly. There is a confusion about this. Many newbies who receive merits in Meta write in a way that makes it clear they already know the forum. These people can not be considered newbies.

If you are a newbie looking for merits, do not waste time on the Meta section.

If you are really a newbie, it will be difficult to receive merits. That's why you need only 1. It would even be interesting to have a statistic about this. But I imagine that a bounty hunter who knows little about Bitcoin and only wants to participate in airdrops or send messages as a spamer, will need about 30 messages of reasonable quality to receive 1 merits.

The interesting fact is that to write these 30 messages you will need to study, read and search. So the next step that will be the required amount of merits to become a Member will work in a more fluid and natural way.

And if you are a newbie trying hard to start a thread for merits then you will end up getting a lot of negative reply.

Now, the OP's initial question is correct. There is a bias. If the newbie or low ranking is struggling to earn a merit just to participate in more bounties, people will avoid sending that merit. And most of the examples of newbies receiving tons of merits in this topic demonstrate this. They are people who post on technical subjects. Texts of great quality, relevance and that are useful to all. They are not in search of merits. They are searching for great debates about a subject that they love which is cryptocurrencies.
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October 23, 2018, 03:46:00 PM
Last edit: October 23, 2018, 03:57:12 PM by gellany32
 #39

 Oh no! I can't say a thing with the replies of you all guys. Just as thought and expected.

Anyway, sorry for my english because I am not good at it.

I can't argue with all of you.

Thanks to all replies. I will going to lock this thread.

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