Software to calculate trade-earnings? (for taxation)

[Roccker]

Hi there

Regarding paying tax for bitcoin-trade-earnings:
How do you calculate your earnings?

I did a lot of trades. I can't do this by hand. I need some software
that shall have api-access to my bitcoin-exchange and make a first-in first-out calculation.

How do you guys do it?

Thanks a lot

[1715023738]

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[1715023738]

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[1715023738]

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[1715023738]

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[MatTheCat]

Hi there

Regarding paying tax for bitcoin-trade-earnings:
How do you calculate your earnings?

I did a lot of trades. I can't do this by hand. I need some software
that shall have api-access to my bitcoin-exchange and make a first-in first-out calculation.

How do you guys do it?

Thanks a lot

Paying tax on Bitcoins trades!

LOL!

U lost thousands, obviously!

[the_sunship]

https://bitcointaxes.info

[theonewhowaskazu]

echo '$0.00';

[Yololintian]

Question:
Assuming I make A dollars from all successful trades and lose B dollars on all unsuccessful trades, and C is the amount of fees/swap I have to pay (these figures for one year), don't I have to pay taxes on A - B - C as a short term gain? Or is it more complicated than that?

[seleme]

My biggest nightmare is how to cash out once when I become millionaire without paying taxes to the state. I hate paying them a single cent and there's no much face to face market here where I live.

[Roccker]

Paying tax on Bitcoins trades!
LOL!
U lost thousands, obviously!

Hello?
Yes, i obviously lost thousands.. and now i am making this thread.. to trick people on the internet.. muahahahahahaha evil laugh
I am amused, amazed and confused by your post, please tell me more

https://bitcointaxes.info

This looks great - thanks a lot!!

echo '$0.00';

Don't get that one.

Question:
Assuming I make A dollars from all successful trades and lose B dollars on all unsuccessful trades, and C is the amount of fees/swap I have to pay (these figures for one year), don't I have to pay taxes on A - B - C as a short term gain? Or is it more complicated than that?

Yes i think that's basically it.
So you could do it per hand if it's eg just 20 trades. Gets more tiresome with 200 trades.
(And first in first out principle, at the end of the year you probably don't have the exact amount of bitcoins)

[XxionxX]

I think you can do it as a lump gain but you pay higher taxes. Don't take my word for it though. Hire an accountant?

[BitchicksHusband]

Paying tax on Bitcoins trades!
LOL!
U lost thousands, obviously!

Hello?
Yes, i obviously lost thousands.. and now i am making this thread.. to trick people on the internet.. muahahahahahaha evil laugh
I am amused, amazed and confused by your post, please tell me more

https://bitcointaxes.info

This looks great - thanks a lot!!

echo '$0.00';

Don't get that one.

Question:
Assuming I make A dollars from all successful trades and lose B dollars on all unsuccessful trades, and C is the amount of fees/swap I have to pay (these figures for one year), don't I have to pay taxes on A - B - C as a short term gain? Or is it more complicated than that?

Yes i think that's basically it.
So you could do it per hand if it's eg just 20 trades. Gets more tiresome with 200 trades.
(And first in first out principle, at the end of the year you probably don't have the exact amount of bitcoins)

A program that did echo '0.00' would basically always tell you you owed zero taxes regardless of what you input.  It's pretty funny, actually.

[RyNinDaCleM]

Question:
Assuming I make A dollars from all successful trades and lose B dollars on all unsuccessful trades, and C is the amount of fees/swap I have to pay (these figures for one year), don't I have to pay taxes on A - B - C as a short term gain? Or is it more complicated than that?

It's easier than that... or at least it should be
Take X fiat you invested and subtract Y funds you have at the last day of 2013. If that number is negative, pay taxes on the absolute difference. If positive then you claim a capital loss of the difference. Some governments may want it itemized so they can check it, so your way might be better.
Either way, it comes out to the same answer

[Roccker]

A program that did echo '0.00' would basically always tell you you owed zero taxes regardless of what you input.  It's pretty funny, actually.

Thanks! I laughed now!:)

It's easier than that... or at least it should be
Take X fiat you invested and subtract Y funds you have at the last day of 2013. If that number is negative, pay taxes on the absolute difference.

What if you have a different amount of bitcoins compared to the beginning. Do you know your stats at 01.01.2012 and 01.01.2013? Withdrawals, sending bitcoins and so on.. this makes it more complicated.







Bitcointaxes.info is great!
Lists every trade with first in first out and positive and negative balance and only for the year 2013.
Only thing: Their export function makes an excel table that is basically unreadable - uses just one field and just a space between the numbers. If i give this in my taxform they will kick my ass.
It looks so nice on the webpage - so i was thinking i will just save the webpage - but this doesn't work (gives a blank page). Now i got a solution: i just print the page. Done.

I just found something out. I am europe-based. If i understand my tax-code correctly i shall calculate every transaction in euros -> meaning when i buy a bitcoin in dollars (which i do) i shall convert it for book-keeping in euros and when i sell i shall do the same. Don't know what i'll do, i guess there is no program for that. On the other hand i have the excel-file of all trades in first in - first out, that is a beginning.

[bitcointaxes]

Bitcointaxes.info is great!

Thanks!

Only thing: Their export function makes an excel table that is basically unreadable - uses just one field and just a space between the numbers. If i give this in my taxform they will kick my ass.

Hmm. Can you log a support ticket using the Support button on the site so I can look into it. It sounds like it isn't correctly putting a newline in there. If you can contact us, I can diagnose and fix it for everyone.

It looks so nice on the webpage - so i was thinking i will just save the webpage - but this doesn't work (gives a blank page). Now i got a solution: i just print the page. Done.

This works too.

I just found something out. I am europe-based. If i understand my tax-code correctly i shall calculate every transaction in euros -> meaning when i buy a bitcoin in dollars (which i do) i shall convert it for book-keeping in euros and when i sell i shall do the same. Don't know what i'll do, i guess there is no program for that. On the other hand i have the excel-file of all trades in first in - first out, that is a beginning.

It is initially US based, but I am working on other countries that have different tax years. I don't know where you are, for instance, in the UK the tax year starts on 6-April. If your tax years starts 1st Jan, you should just be able to go to your Account page and change your main currency to Euro and everything will get converted.

[Alonzo Ewing]

Anyone know what to do if the trade data is unavailable like with Mt. Gox?

[Roccker]

Only thing: Their export function makes an excel table that is basically unreadable - uses just one field and just a space between the numbers. If i give this in my taxform they will kick my ass.

Hmm. Can you log a support ticket using the Support button on the site so I can look into it. It sounds like it isn't correctly putting a newline in there. If you can contact us, I can diagnose and fix it for everyone.

Hi !
I did exaggerate - it uses more fields, it just puts
"0.004 BTC,11/06/2013,11/07/2013,$1.13,$1.03,$0.10"
in one field, versus putting it in a new field after every ','
- so i find that hard to read.. and one cannot make a simple calculation of the gains eg itself with excel.

I just found something out. I am europe-based. If i understand my tax-code correctly i shall calculate every transaction in euros -> meaning when i buy a bitcoin in dollars (which i do) i shall convert it for book-keeping in euros and when i sell i shall do the same. Don't know what i'll do, i guess there is no program for that. On the other hand i have the excel-file of all trades in first in - first out, that is a beginning.

It is initially US based, but I am working on other countries that have different tax years. I don't know where you are, for instance, in the UK the tax year starts on 6-April. If your tax years starts 1st Jan, you should just be able to go to your Account page and change your main currency to Euro and everything will get converted.
[/quote]

I put 'EUR' as default currency (did re-login several times after that, the setting is really 'EUR') - and everything is in dollar, which makes sense cause i trade
with bitstamp in dollars.
Now what i would need is whenever i bought bitcoin it should converse this prize in dollars into euro (with the exchange rate that is on that day). And whenever i sell a bitcoin it should converse the prize in dollars into euro (with the exchange rate that is on that day).
That's also a reason why an excel file from bitcointaxes.info would have seperate fields for each entry ("0.004", "11/06/2013", "11/07/2013","1.13","1.03","0.10") instead of "0.004 BTC,11/06/2013,11/07/2013,$1.13,$1.03,$0.10" all in one field. Cause then it would be possible for me to enter fields that convert into euro. Would still be a lot of work but right now i don't know a better solution.

Although there shall be thousands of people that have the same problem as me - basically all europeans that trade on bitstamp.

[bitcointaxes]

Hi !
I did exaggerate - it uses more fields, it just puts
"0.004 BTC,11/06/2013,11/07/2013,$1.13,$1.03,$0.10"
in one field, versus putting it in a new field after every ','
- so i find that hard to read.. and one cannot make a simple calculation of the gains eg itself with excel.

That should be right. If you open up the file in excel as a comma-separated file it should split each field out. If I'm not understanding can you send me a screen shot of what you are seeing to our support email address.

I put 'EUR' as default currency (did re-login several times after that, the setting is really 'EUR') - and everything is in dollar, which makes sense cause i trade
with bitstamp in dollars.
Now what i would need is whenever i bought bitcoin it should converse this prize in dollars into euro (with the exchange rate that is on that day). And whenever i sell a bitcoin it should converse the prize in dollars into euro (with the exchange rate that is on that day).
That's also a reason why an excel file from bitcointaxes.info would have seperate fields for each entry ("0.004", "11/06/2013", "11/07/2013","1.13","1.03","0.10") instead of "0.004 BTC,11/06/2013,11/07/2013,$1.13,$1.03,$0.10" all in one field. Cause then it would be possible for me to enter fields that convert into euro. Would still be a lot of work but right now i don't know a better solution.

This is how it works. Please make sure you are setting EUR in your Account page and not just on the Trade page. The latter is legacy now as it just shows the page converted, but if you click Account over on the right you can set the "Default Currency" as Euros and click the Update button. When you go back, go into Calculate Gains and hit Recalculate. You should then see everything in Euros.

Again, if these are working, please use the Support button and contact me directly.

[zedicus]

Anyone know what to do if the trade data is unavailable like with Mt. Gox?

Just tell em your dog ate the trade data..

[Roccker]

Hi !
I did exaggerate - it uses more fields, it just puts
"0.004 BTC,11/06/2013,11/07/2013,$1.13,$1.03,$0.10"
in one field, versus putting it in a new field after every ','
- so i find that hard to read.. and one cannot make a simple calculation of the gains eg itself with excel.

That should be right. If you open up the file in excel as a comma-separated file it should split each field out. If I'm not understanding can you send me a screen shot of what you are seeing to our support email address.

I got it now - my european excel didn't get the commas as seperations, but excel could easily fix this (data -> text in columns). I now have a nice excel sheet with seperate columns, great!

I put 'EUR' as default currency (did re-login several times after that, the setting is really 'EUR') - and everything is in dollar, which makes sense cause i trade
with bitstamp in dollars.
Now what i would need is whenever i bought bitcoin it should converse this prize in dollars into euro (with the exchange rate that is on that day). And whenever i sell a bitcoin it should converse the prize in dollars into euro (with the exchange rate that is on that day).
That's also a reason why an excel file from bitcointaxes.info would have seperate fields for each entry ("0.004", "11/06/2013", "11/07/2013","1.13","1.03","0.10") instead of "0.004 BTC,11/06/2013,11/07/2013,$1.13,$1.03,$0.10" all in one field. Cause then it would be possible for me to enter fields that convert into euro. Would still be a lot of work but right now i don't know a better solution.

This is how it works. Please make sure you are setting EUR in your Account page and not just on the Trade page. The latter is legacy now as it just shows the page converted, but if you click Account over on the right you can set the "Default Currency" as Euros and click the Update button. When you go back, go into Calculate Gains and hit Recalculate. You should then see everything in Euros.

Re-calculating did the trick! I now have everything in euros - which conversion rate do you take? Is it always the conversion rate at the moment of the buy/sell? (from where?)
I think for my state-audit i will put the dollar and euro - in one excel together, and also make a field for the conversion rate.

Anyone know what to do if the trade data is unavailable like with Mt. Gox?

Just thinking..
Remember some things by memory and write them down. There is at least the proof of your bank that you sent xx dollars there (and news-headline that gox lost all these funds).

[knightcoin]

you pay tax on your electricity .. if you are trader is the electricity on you server .. 

[bitcointaxes]

Re-calculating did the trick! I now have everything in euros - which conversion rate do you take? Is it always the conversion rate at the moment of the buy/sell? (from where?)

All our fiat conversions are the daily average taken from oanda.com. The date is the date that the conversion happened, i.e. the sale date for a sell and the buy date for a buy.

[TERA]

This year it's easy, because I started bitcoin in 2013. I know I made an initial deposit of $X and at the end of the year I had $Y and I subtract them. Otherwise I wouldn't know what the hell to do because I've not only done bitcoin trading but arbitrage, altcoin trading, and altcoin arbitrage, used about 8 exchanges, and half of the exchanges I've used have closed.

[bitcointaxes]

This year it's easy, because I started bitcoin in 2013. I know I made an initial deposit of $X and at the end of the year I had $Y and I subtract them. Otherwise I wouldn't know what the hell to do because I've not only done bitcoin trading but arbitrage, altcoin trading, and altcoin arbitrage, used about 8 exchanges, and half of the exchanges I've used have closed.

Agree, if you started in 2013 and paid one currency, bought Bitcoin, sold them all, got your USD back.

But if you have some Bitcoin left, you need to be calculating their cost basis for next year. If you sold any then bought them back at all, traded alt-coins,  it will have changed.

[Roccker]

All our fiat conversions are the daily average taken from oanda.com. The date is the date that the conversion happened, i.e. the sale date for a sell and the buy date for a buy.

Great, thanks!
Just quickly to make sure: the trading fee’s are already substracted from the trading gains? Are buying fees already in buy-prize (“proceeds”) and selling fee’s already in sell-prize (“cost basis”)?

[bitcointaxes]

Just quickly to make sure: the trading fee’s are already substracted from the trading gains? Are buying fees already in buy-prize (“proceeds”) and selling fee’s already in sell-prize (“cost basis”)?

Yes, the cost basis is the cost of buying, (price * volume) + fees.

Proceeds are, (price * volume) - fees.

Gain is their difference.

[TERA]

This year it's easy, because I started bitcoin in 2013. I know I made an initial deposit of $X and at the end of the year I had $Y and I subtract them. Otherwise I wouldn't know what the hell to do because I've not only done bitcoin trading but arbitrage, altcoin trading, and altcoin arbitrage, used about 8 exchanges, and half of the exchanges I've used have closed.

Agree, if you started in 2013 and paid one currency, bought Bitcoin, sold them all, got your USD back.

But if you have some Bitcoin left, you need to be calculating their cost basis for next year. If you sold any then bought them back at all, traded alt-coins,  it will have changed.

I wasn't all in USD at the end of year. I had some bitcoin, so I was able to subtract the unrealized gains I had on those bitcoins, and they will apply to next year. I think I avoided a tax bracket this way.