Bitcoin Forum
December 07, 2016, 06:19:03 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Are pools more efficient?  (Read 2803 times)
btc_artist
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


Bitcoin!


View Profile WWW
November 08, 2011, 09:54:37 PM
 #21

Finding Bitcoin blocks is a lottery.
I'm still in learning mode here.

So this means that technically, I could turn on gen=1 in bitcoin.conf so the client tries to generate bitcoins, and if I were extremely lucky, there's a tiny chance I could solve a block 5 minutes later, right?

BTC: 1CDCLDBHbAzHyYUkk1wYHPYmrtDZNhk8zf
LTC: LMS7SqZJnqzxo76iDSEua33WCyYZdjaQoE
1481134743
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481134743

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481134743
Reply with quote  #2

1481134743
Report to moderator
1481134743
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481134743

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481134743
Reply with quote  #2

1481134743
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481134743
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481134743

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481134743
Reply with quote  #2

1481134743
Report to moderator
1481134743
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481134743

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481134743
Reply with quote  #2

1481134743
Report to moderator
1481134743
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481134743

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481134743
Reply with quote  #2

1481134743
Report to moderator
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
November 08, 2011, 10:01:45 PM
 #22

Finding Bitcoin blocks is a lottery.
I'm still in learning mode here.

So this means that technically, I could turn on gen=1 in bitcoin.conf so the client tries to generate bitcoins, and if I were extremely lucky, there's a tiny chance I could solve a block 5 minutes later, right?

There is a chance you could solve a block w/ a single hash.  There is also a chance you would solve every single block for the day with only an Atom CPU as your mining hardware.

There is always a chance (however remote).
btc_artist
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154


Bitcoin!


View Profile WWW
November 08, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
 #23

Okay, I just wanted to make sure I understood how it works.  Thanks.

BTC: 1CDCLDBHbAzHyYUkk1wYHPYmrtDZNhk8zf
LTC: LMS7SqZJnqzxo76iDSEua33WCyYZdjaQoE
teukon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246



View Profile
November 09, 2011, 12:32:47 AM
 #24

Okay, I just wanted to make sure I understood how it works.  Thanks.

Yep.  You can think of mining like repeatedly rolling a die.  If you roll a 1 you generate a block (and score 50 BTC).  This sounds easy until you realise that the die has about (2^32 * [Bitcoin difficulty]) sides.  No matter how high the difficulty, you could still get a 1 on your first try!

A CPU thread rolls a die repeatedly but fairly quickly.  A GPU rolls more slowly but is able to roll hundreds or even thousands of dice at a time!

A pool works by giving you the usual dice to roll but paying you a small amount whenever you roll a number less than about [Bitcoin difficulty].
DrHaribo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1960


Bitminter.com Operator


View Profile WWW
November 09, 2011, 02:13:56 PM
 #25

Two things that make pools more efficient than a (naive) solo mining setup:

  • Long polling (don't continue checking old "lottery tickets" after they expire, get new ones instead)
  • Merged mining (get free namecoins while you work on making bitcoins)

If I was going to solo mine, I think I'd get some of the free pool software and set that up, even if it was just for myself. If you solo mine directly against the bitcoin program, you are losing money.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
November 09, 2011, 02:17:07 PM
 #26

Two things that make pools more efficient than a (naive) solo mining setup:

  • Long polling (don't continue checking old "lottery tickets" after they expire, get new ones instead)
  • Merged mining (get free namecoins while you work on making bitcoins)

If I was going to solo mine, I think I'd get some of the free pool software and set that up, even if it was just for myself. If you solo mine directly against the bitcoin program, you are losing money.


Good points.  Never thought about it but lack of LP is going to cost you 1% to 5% depending on card speed. 
cgminer helps reduce that somewhat.  It does independent checking for block changes and when it detects a block change will empty the queue and request a new getwork().
Transisto
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624



View Profile WWW
November 09, 2011, 05:53:38 PM
 #27

To sum up, 
Advanced pool software = more efficient / reliable
Mining in group = not more efficient.
teukon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246



View Profile
November 10, 2011, 10:06:50 AM
 #28

  • Long polling (don't continue checking old "lottery tickets" after they expire, get new ones instead)

Is that right?  I thought long polling was all about helping the mining software and bitcoind communicate and thereby reducing the proportion of invalid shares.  If both pieces of software are on the same private network such communication should be a non-issue.  To me, the interesting communication problem is the broadcasting of a new block to all existing bitcoind nodes.

Could someone explain long polling or give me a link?  Particularly I'd like to know whether or not it improves on bitcoind's current block broadcasting and, if so, how?
DrHaribo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1960


Bitminter.com Operator


View Profile WWW
November 10, 2011, 05:23:59 PM
 #29

Could someone explain long polling or give me a link?  Particularly I'd like to know whether or not it improves on bitcoind's current block broadcasting and, if so, how?

bitcoind doesn't broadcast out new work. Workers poll for new work when they run out or run low on work.

Long poll is a technique for letting a server push data to a client with HTTP which doesn't really support server push. This way the server can give new work to the miners when a block change happens which invalidates all the old work the miners have. Then miners immediately start on the new work instead of doing useless work on old data, finding proofs or work that are useless and sending them to the server only to have them get registered as rejected proofs of work, aka. "stales".

Unfortunately bitcoind doesn't support long poll or any other kind of push or notification to clients that anything has happened. But pools do.

Edit:
more about long polling in general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_%28programming%29
more about bitcoin getwork with long poll: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
gmaxwell
Moderator
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2030



View Profile
November 10, 2011, 10:59:02 PM
 #30

Good points.  Never thought about it but lack of LP is going to cost you 1% to 5% depending on card speed. 

Just set your maximum scan time to 1 second. This means you'll lose a maximum of ~144 seconds of mining a day or 0.166%. You'll usually lose  more effort than that from pools due to other issues (stales, bugs, network latency).

Pools can't do this because all the users would slam them. But it's a perfectly reasonable thing when running on your own. (not that running pushpool with LP locally is much of an issue).

teukon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246



View Profile
November 11, 2011, 12:47:48 AM
 #31

Good points.  Never thought about it but lack of LP is going to cost you 1% to 5% depending on card speed. 

Just set your maximum scan time to 1 second. This means you'll lose a maximum of ~144 seconds of mining a day or 0.166%. You'll usually lose  more effort than that from pools due to other issues (stales, bugs, network latency).

Pools can't do this because all the users would slam them. But it's a perfectly reasonable thing when running on your own. (not that running pushpool with LP locally is much of an issue).



That seems sensible to me.  Long polling shouldn't be necessary for a local network at all (not that it hurts).  I would argue that, even with long polling, pool miners will have more of a stales problem than solo miners.
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!