Bitcoin Forum
November 18, 2019, 07:35:25 PM *
News: 10th anniversary art contest
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Rumor that Bitmain is going belly up! can't pay its chip builder!  (Read 19188 times)
ccgllc
Copper Member
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 518
Merit: 92

Math doesn't care what you believe.


View Profile WWW
November 15, 2018, 05:06:45 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #41

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the S15s "selling out".  Bitmain has been known to have "sold out" of very small quantities of Batch 1 miners before - just to get the publicity.   For instance, perhaps the "sold out" of dozens or perhaps 100s of S15s in minutes.  No big deal.

Mined for a living since 2017.  Primary developer of Bitcoin Rebooted (https://www.bitcoin-rebooted.xyz)
Blokforge Affiliate:  https://blokforge.com/?ref=21
Linux admin since 0.96 kernel and Slackware distributions on (4) floppies...
1574105725
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574105725

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574105725
Reply with quote  #2

1574105725
Report to moderator
1574105725
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574105725

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574105725
Reply with quote  #2

1574105725
Report to moderator
1574105725
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574105725

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574105725
Reply with quote  #2

1574105725
Report to moderator
The Bitcoin Forum is turning 10 years old! Join the community in sharing and exploring the notable posts made over the years.
HagssFIN
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1408


Electrical engineer (B.E.). Mining since 2014.


View Profile WWW
November 15, 2018, 05:26:24 PM
 #42

Yep.
Who knows if they had as little as 10 miners for sale and sold out very quickly.  Grin

MagicByt3
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 186


View Profile
November 18, 2018, 12:17:44 PM
 #43

Was there not reports too of issues with the chips during development? 
I was sure there was a source that said the wafers were failing.

Could this be a reason to limit how many a customer can buy so they don't end up with 1000's of warranty repair or replace in the next few months.

<3 Bitcoin
Steamtyme
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1467


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT5HPhO - Newb Vid


View Profile WWW
November 18, 2018, 12:51:25 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2018, 06:44:01 AM by frodocooper
 #44

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the S15s "selling out".  Bitmain has been known to have "sold out" of very small quantities of Batch 1 miners before - just to get the publicity.   For instance, perhaps the "sold out" of dozens or perhaps 100s of S15s in minutes.  No big deal.

I see what your saying. It does have a certain effect on the market and competitors if you can sell this unit. It seems almost futile unless they truly are grasping at straws, it really only buys them a few weeks when the orders are supposed to ship out. If there aren't a bunch of them being delivered to farms of all sizes it would just raise more questions about their business.

Who knows if they had as little as 10 miners for sale and sold out very quickly.  Grin

That would be one hell of a going out of business sale.

Was there not reports too of issues with the chips during development?

Yeah it was discussed a little at the beginning of the thread

Could this be a reason to limit how many a customer can buy so they don't end up with 1000's of warranty repair or replace in the next few months.

Even if the limit is 2 per customer if the machines fail, you've just spread out the amount of pissed off consumers. More angry people by limiting the purchase amount. The Max quantity does lend more credence to the small batch argument more than anything. If delivered to a large enough sampling of people it does a better job of getting the word out as opposed to a couple of large orders buying up all the stock.

philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
November 18, 2018, 04:53:40 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2018, 06:45:47 AM by frodocooper
Merited by stompix (1)
 #45

The diff math shows that not a lot of new gear is rolling out.

M10
S15
Inno turbo

they are not selling like mad.

What has happened here is :

 12 cent
 10 cent
   8 cent   all lose money at 5500 a btc coin.

with the s9 mining.
with the avalon 841 mining

to turn profit  at 8 cents  you need 100 watts at 1th

an s9 doing 14000 gh at 1400 watts at 8 cents makes 24 cents a day.

So a hosting of an s9  at 1.4 x 24 x 30 = 1008 kwatts  a 30 day month  so at 8 cents  that is 80.64 a kwatt

So if you have a contract for 10 kwatts that is 806.40 a month  to be at break even roughly 7 s9's

We all know the network has 65% s9 gear  all of it at 8 cents and up is dead.

So I ask you  if you have 7 s-9's  at 806.40 a month  (8cents)  and your 6 month renewal bill is due    will you want to pay 4838.40  fuck no you won't

So many hosting sites are going underwater.

If you have done okay for the last few years you may want to consider  mining at a loss with s9's rather then buying some s15

what is a pair of s15's 1475 + 1475 = 2950 add shipping add tax you are over 4050

what do you get  56th at 3200 watts at full speed

what are 4 s9's  56th at 5600 watts at full speed.

2.4kwatts x 24 hours = 57.6kwatts a day or 5.76 cents at 10 cent power  cost 4050

bitmain s9 on ebay with psu = 325 x 4 = 1300

so a savings of 2700    about 54th-56th    

now those s9's mining at 5.6kwatts = 134.40 kwatts a day at 10 cents  that is 13.44 a day

so for 200 days 2688 dollars

So  the s9s are better for 200 days then the s15  and I am not counting  the time you wait for the s15's

at 8 cents  it is 10.75 a day in power  that is 251 days  before the s15 catches up to the s9is

So really only small USA and Europe guys with high power costs have any real interest in the s15.

Lets make you  not in USA lets say Canada tax is 5%

so 2960 x 1.05 = 3108 + 200 to ship say 3308 that is 2k more then the s9's

so  10 cent power   2000/13.44 =  148 days before the s15 starts to catch up

so   8  cent power     2000/10.75 = 186 days defore the s15 starts to catch up

so  the demand at 1475  will be low

even a canada guy at 10 cent power should be very cautious to get a lot of them.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2184
Merit: 2075


Your dearest bum chum


View Profile
November 18, 2018, 05:13:32 PM
 #46

Odd concept since they've had original Bitcoin support longer than anything else.

Because it's the biggest and the market demands it, not because they want it to be. They supported all the crappy initiatives to usurp the current version of Bitcoin and Bcash/BCH/BCHABC/BCHSV is ably proving what a shitty idea they all were.

Read that - https://twitter.com/pierre_rochard/status/1064181612815007745

Coinbase have never put out anything as pumpy related to BTC.

xxxABJxxx
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 49
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 05:14:58 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:11:13 AM by frodocooper
 #47

I wonder on who they sell.

You can not order an Antminer S9 and some other miners in Europe.

I do not know how all this is related but I still have coupons until the end of November.

I would like to redeem them. Unfortunately, I can no longer order the S9 from Europe. fraud?

That's the intention again. From December when all coupons have expired, you can certainly order again at higher prices. Angry
QuintLeo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1025


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 06:19:53 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:11:57 AM by frodocooper
 #48

We all know the network has 65% s9 gear  all of it at 8 cents and up is dead.

And it got worse in the last 24 hours.

Gotta wonder if Bitmain finally sold out on their remaining stock of S9 units and decided to pull the trigger on another round of "coin dump" to make more of a market for the S15/T15 as one of the very few profitable miners.

On the other hand, a lot of miners are at 5 cent OR LESS power cost, pretty sure even at current market conditions the S9 is still profitable for the low-cost miners.

I still think "Bitmain cash crunch" is the primary reason for the massive sell pressure on Bitcoin right now - had ANOTHER volume spike that seems to have caused the second "price dump".

I'm no longer legendary just in my own mind!
Like something I said? Donations gratefully accepted. LYLnTKvLefz9izJFUvEGQEZzSkz34b3N6U (Litecoin)
1GYbjMTPdCuV7dci3iCUiaRrcNuaiQrVYY (Bitcoin)
MagicByt3
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 186


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 06:31:11 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:12:20 AM by frodocooper
 #49

Even the Avalon miners are being turned off..

Miners beware.  This footage is emotional....

https://twitter.com/DoveyWan/status/1064878600594305025

<3 Bitcoin
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
November 20, 2018, 06:54:59 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:12:37 AM by frodocooper
 #50

Even the Avalon miners are being turned off..

Miners beware.  This footage is emotional....

https://twitter.com/DoveyWan/status/1064878600594305025

pretty nice info.  makes me smile.

this all very good for the solar array  which has been paid off  and power is about 1 cent (for maintenance)

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
MagicByt3
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 186


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 08:59:59 PM
 #51

Would love to pick your brains over the solar array @philipma1957

I would agree it's happy times to see it in relation to diff but sad to see that pile being dumped like that.
Those miners could have a nice home somewhere else.

<3 Bitcoin
HagssFIN
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1408


Electrical engineer (B.E.). Mining since 2014.


View Profile WWW
November 20, 2018, 09:44:37 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #52

@MagicByt
Are you sure that the video footage is not filmed during the flood in Sichuan area, China?

OgNasty
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3094
Merit: 1735


I 💚 Bitcoin


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 09:47:28 PM
 #53

Even the Avalon miners are being turned off..

Miners beware.  This footage is emotional....

https://twitter.com/DoveyWan/status/1064878600594305025

This is fake news. That footage is from the flood that destroyed a Bitcoin mine.

^Damn, HagssFIN beat me to it.

philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
November 20, 2018, 10:19:16 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:13:58 AM by frodocooper
Merited by Biodom (5), stompix (1)
 #54

This is fake news. That footage is from the flood that destroyed a Bitcoin mine.

^Damn, HagssFIN beat me to it.

That makes more sense If you have 100 watt a th gear

the red numbers at current diff are

12 cent power and 7697 price mines at a loss
11 cent power and 7055 price mines at a loss
10 cent power and 6414 price mines at a loss
I suspect these miners have shut down a lot of  thier gear

9 cent power and 5772.10 price mines at a  loss
8 cent power and 5131.10 price mines at a  loss
7 cent power and 4489.10 price mines at a  loss
  this is the group that will be shutting down if this lingers at these prices

6 cent power and 3848.10 price mines at a  loss
5 cent power and 3207.10 price mines at a  loss = these miners may do okay  since diff will drop a bit.

4 cent power and 2565.10 price mines at a  loss
3 cent power and 1923.10 price mines at a  loss =  these are doing just fine for today and I am think they  don't feel pain unless we drop  to 1750

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
MagicByt3
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 364
Merit: 186


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:14:20 AM by frodocooper
 #55

This is fake news. That footage is from the flood that destroyed a Bitcoin mine.

^Damn, HagssFIN beat me to it.

I'm afraid it's not from the floods.

https://www.trustnodes.com/2018/07/02/flood-destroys-hundreds-gpus-asics-china

That is the floods.

also note no water damage to the miners on the ground.. or wet patches that would suggest flooding.

<3 Bitcoin
sikke1
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 45
Merit: 18


View Profile
November 20, 2018, 11:33:07 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:14:47 AM by frodocooper
 #56

This is fake news. That footage is from the flood that destroyed a Bitcoin mine.

^Damn, HagssFIN beat me to it.

Maybe not

Same Twitter saying they will pull off S9 miners from hosting because they cannot cover costs.
https://twitter.com/DoveyWan/status/1065016992657301504

https://www.ccn.com/rumors-flood-in-sichuan-china-destroyed-bitcoin-mining-centers/
https://www.coindigital.com/heavy-flooding-damages-major-crypto-mining-operation-in-china/

Way I see it is that only way Bitmain will recover is BCH rebound of 200-400% to clear their assets problems.
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
November 21, 2018, 12:31:13 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:15:08 AM by frodocooper
 #57

BCH needs to go to 750 or more.  Maybe 1000

we are looking at a major play  that could backfire.

you need to go all the way back to the Hunt brothers and their play to own the silver market back around 1977-1978  to see anything like this move.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
lightfoot
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2030
Merit: 1135


I fix broken miners. And make holes in teeth :-)


View Profile
November 21, 2018, 03:11:06 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:17:02 AM by frodocooper
 #58

the red numbers at current diff are

12 cent power and 7697 price mines at a loss
11 cent power and 7055 price mines at a loss
10 cent power and 6414 price mines at a loss
I suspect these miners have shut down a lot of  thier gear

9 cent power and 5772.10 price mines at a  loss
8 cent power and 5131.10 price mines at a  loss
7 cent power and 4489.10 price mines at a  loss
  this is the group that will be shutting down if this lingers at these prices

6 cent power and 3848.10 price mines at a  loss
5 cent power and 3207.10 price mines at a  loss = these miners may do okay  since diff will drop a bit.

4 cent power and 2565.10 price mines at a  loss
3 cent power and 1923.10 price mines at a  loss =  these are doing just fine for today and I am think they  don't feel pain unless we drop  to 1750

This of course assumes your floor rental cost is zero, payments on the equipment are zero, maintenance is zero, and of course the one slave who runs the mine is paid 0.

At this point I think these dingbats are mining at a loss. Otherwise they would have crashed the market earlier just to wipe out other miners and lower the difficulty. That's why (IMO) it was rolling around 6500 or so.

Eh, we'll see what happens with this dick-fest.
OgNasty
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3094
Merit: 1735


I 💚 Bitcoin


View Profile
November 21, 2018, 03:27:47 AM
 #59

There is no doubt that Bitcoin mines are struggling and shutting down, possibly even going bankrupt. However, this idea that they’re throwing away machines in this fashion that are still selling for hundreds of dollars each is nothing more than a fantasy.

Also, Bitmain is not going belly up. They’re about to list a multi-billion dollar IPO. Let’s keep a little bit of sanity.

vit05
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 672
Merit: 524



View Profile
November 21, 2018, 03:28:27 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 03:28:54 AM by frodocooper
 #60

This is fake news. That footage is from the flood that destroyed a Bitcoin mine.

^Damn, HagssFIN beat me to it.

The floor is not wet in this video. It just seems like they're pulling the miners out of the hack.
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!