Rumor that Bitmain is going belly up! can't pay its chip builder!

[lightfoot]

There is no doubt that Bitcoin mines are struggling and shutting down, possibly even going bankrupt. However, this idea that they’re throwing away machines in this fashion that are still selling for hundreds of dollars each is nothing more than a fantasy.

Also, Bitmain is not going belly up. They’re about to list a multi-billion dollar IPO. Let’s keep a little bit of sanity.

That's going to be the biggest joke IPO in history. And yeah, I doubt they are chucking gear like that.

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[QuintLeo]

At this point I think these dingbats are mining at a loss. Otherwise they would have crashed the market earlier just to wipe out other miners and lower the difficulty. That's why (IMO) it was rolling around 6500 or so.

I'd not bet on that - they're probably in the 3 cent OR LESS range on their power cost.

There is no doubt that Bitcoin mines are struggling and shutting down, possibly even going bankrupt. However, this idea that they’re throwing away machines in this fashion that are still selling for hundreds of dollars each is nothing more than a fantasy.

Also, Bitmain is not going belly up. They’re about to list a multi-billion dollar IPO. Let’s keep a little bit of sanity.

An IPO that has already had WIDELY talked about as having a lot of unrealistic expectations and some outright LIES in it.
I'd not bet on that IPO doing well if it actually makes it to market.

[krisgt30]

At .067 I just shut off 36 s9s for the time being to weather the storm and not eat away at my profit from the last 9 months. My z9 and video cards are still on.

[stompix]

That makes more sense If you have 100 watt a th gear

[...]

As always, philipma1957 and the numbers  

And those are for 100w/th not for 150-160 in case of the 741, (assuming those are indeed 741 as I can't really tell from that video).

Going back to bitmain, if they kept the BCH or made the stupid mistake of converting BTC to BCH like some say they are doing it's not probably the most cheerful mood over there right now.

I somehow doubt TMSC is going to accept BCH as payment  

[philipma1957]

Lot of blood in the water  sharks are circling.

[OgNasty]

At .067 I just shut off 36 s9s for the time being to weather the storm and not eat away at my profit from the last 9 months. My z9 and video cards are still on.

As someone who has been mining for 7+ years, I can tell you that making decisions based on current prices is not a historically wise thing to do.

[Biodom]

At .067 I just shut off 36 s9s for the time being to weather the storm and not eat away at my profit from the last 9 months. My z9 and video cards are still on.

You are still profitable at 0.067.
Too rash of a move, but who knows longer term.

[DaCryptoRaccoon]

There was also some talk of them reaching out to samsung floating about but again I don't think they will be happy to work with bitmain if there are large bills outstanding with TSMC and now this crazy "hash" wars.

IPO might just be a way for them to clear some of this debts.

Other thing that makes me think that indeed there are some larger shut-down's happening is the hash rate is falling and has been for past 60 days.
People are claiming the hash is going to the "hashwar" but from looking at the numbers I don't see the switch between BTC and BCH or SV.

With the "sudden" release of the asic boost firmware into the public domain and with the S15 only being sold on the bitmain site in batch 1, 2 per customer while the T15 was 50 units tells me they did a limited run of the chips most likely due to the large outstanding bills to the chip manufacturer.

[gentlemand]

https://twitter.com/btcking555/status/1070068239542206465?s=09

Q3 involved a $740 million loss for Bitmain according that Twitter account, however they've come out with enormous pronouncements before that I haven't seen corroborated anywhere else.

Considering what a total cratering BCH has been involved in I guess it feels more feasible than ever. They're saying that figure also does not include that hash war.

[stompix]

Of course those are rumors from a "leaked" document but still, there is no way they would end the year the same as 2017.

The bulk of the mining rig sales was made last year at outrageous prices, there is a clear downtrend now, their investment in BCH have come down almost 20! times from the ATH, profits from mining are obviously down also.

And if Q3 is like that what numbers could we expect for Q4?

[QuintLeo]

You are still profitable at 0.067.
Too rash of a move, but who knows longer term.

As of right now, an S9 is still profitable mining Bitcoin - BARELY - at a power cost of less then 0.074 per KWH.
That would be closer to 0.06 but Bitcoin has shown a significant DROP in hashrate and difficulty through November and early December - close to 20% over the last 5 weeks.
Gotta wonder how long the current pricing being SO depressed is going to take before a serious number of "new miners" from the last year-and-a-half give up and shut down/sell their rigs.

Profitability TODAY is a lot lower for pretty much ANY coin than it has been in the last 3 years (exceptions are pretty much ALL "haven't existed that long" coins like ZEC).

Thank Jihan Wu for CRATERING the markets with his "war on BCH-SV" and cashflow issues with Bitmain - and IMO Bitmain should be BOYCOTTED because of the garbage they've pulled this past month-and-change on miners in general.
I plan to never buy a Bitmain product ever again - this garbage was the final straw.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Thank Jihan Wu for CRATERING the markets with his "war on BCH-SV" and cashflow issues with Bitmain - and IMO Bitmain should be BOYCOTTED because of the garbage they've pulled this past month-and-change on miners in general.
I plan to never buy a Bitmain product ever again - this garbage was the final straw.

Ja. I stopped buying BM products a couple years ago when they stopped accepting BTC for payment for a while and tried forcing us to use BitCH instead.

Got my 1st Avalons then and have never looked back.

[sidehack]

Only Bitmain product I've bought since the S3 days were some S7-LN to hack down to 0.22J/GH and make quiet heaters out of.

I left Bitmain's corner somewhere between when they upped the price of the S5 by 30% in one day just because they could, when they released the S4+ with worse efficiency, worse reliability and worse price, when the S5+ and S7 cemented their strategy of impractically high power and unsustainably high power density and the expected decrease in system reliability resulting therefrom, and when they redesigned the S7 for cheaper manufacture and notably worse efficiency and heat handling but didn't change the advertised specs or price. And that was all in like 2015.

[philipma1957]

Well ccn  decides to pile on.

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-is-a-dead-man-walking-claims-creative-planning-cio/

btw  it will never go as low  as stated above.

[sidehack]

"As CCN reported, Marks said people who buy bitcoin do so only because they want to turn a quick profit by selling their holdings to a “greater fool” than themselves.

“This is what we called when I was a kid, the ‘greater fool theory,’” Marks said. “They think someone will buy it from them at a higher price. Not because they can specify its intrinsic benefits. Not because they can judge the intrinsic value. But only because they think it’s going up.”"

Gotta say, I agree with the guy insofar as that speculation and margin trading is what greedy bastards do to ruin Bitcoin - at least ruin it for the rest of us. It didn't start as a get-rich-quick scheme and it better not end that way either. Some of us actually use it as a means of exchange for products and services - a currency - rather than merely as a tradeable commodity, and have been wishing for years for a value based more on utility than hype. That substantial philosophical divide is what separates the men from the boys around here, and folks looking at it as an "investment platform" to profit without putting up any real effort are the boys.

[minefarmbuy]

Oh if I had merit to give to that. I'll just open another beer, cheers sidehack.

[philipma1957]

Oh if I had merit to give to that. I'll just open another beer, cheers sidehack.

I sent him 6 points for that 3 for you and 3 for  me.

[minefarmbuy]

I sent him 6 points for that 3 for you and 3 for  me.

What a guy! To early for a beer on the west coast but a little dab for ya this morning philipma.

Looks like Bitmain is adjusting to market at least for the new gear. Still holding back DR5 for just Chinese market can't be helping their numbers since most miners are hungry for profits. Though Q3 shows a dramatic loss, obviously with Q4 releases they're recouping some of those losses. Still their budget is shot for the year. With news of the closure is Iran or was Israel? I imagine they've been trimming fat since Q2.

[jstefanop]

I get kinda sad when I see some old timers on here talking about mining in terms of profitability. Mining was never about profits...people that talk about that I put in the same group as traders, hypers, and get rich quick guys that ruined bitcoin back in 2013, and again in 2017. Mining is here to secure the network and DISTRIBUTE coins period. If your mining and selling your coins your doing it wrong.

I hope bitmain and all large scale miners eat their shit this year. Crypto was supposed to be more than about pure greed, and the influx of greed I have seen in the past year in this space has made me sick.

Maybe if this happens guys like myself and sidehack will have a chance again to keep distributing miners and spreading out the hash to thousands if not hundreds of thousands more and maybe see the space go back to a slight vision of what it should look like.

[gentlemand]

I get kinda sad when I see some old timers on here talking about mining in terms of profitability. Mining was never about profits...people that talk about that I put in the same group as traders, hypers, and get rich quick guys that ruined bitcoin back in 2013, and again in 2017. Mining is here to secure the network and DISTRIBUTE coins period. If your mining and selling your coins your doing it wrong.

I'm pretty sure Bitcoin was not designed to be a charity case. If it were I presume the idea would've been binned instantly as hopelessly naive. It was always going to be ravaged if it requires good will. There isn't very much of that in the world, even more so when it comes to money.

It's about boxing and pointing self interest towards the benefit of something bigger. That requires profit and plenty of it.