Rumor that Bitmain is going belly up! can't pay its chip builder!

[sidehack]

I think inventing your own currency, making sure that everyone gets a buttload of it for free, and then trading hardware for only that currency ("giving it away") wasn't exactly a brilliant financial strategy.

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[Steamtyme]

For whatever reason I thought they already had there hands in a filthy cloud mining operation. Doesn't surprise me that they would go that route, but it reeks of desperation.

I guess if the hardware isn't flying off the shelves you can trick a few people into a smaller initial investment that in the end leaves them well behind just buying coins; and Bitmain gets someone to pay off the gear and then had a machine to sell down the road.

The cloud "miners" will figure it out in a few months hopefully they dont sign a stupidly long contract

[tmfp]

Whether it "reeks of desperation" or not, those are pretty attractive 30 day ROI's they are offering.

[Norm MacDonald]

Whether it "reeks of desperation" or not, those are pretty attractive 30 day ROI's they are offering.

"Subject to immediate change." Daily maintenance is pretty prohibitive also. Looks pretty crummy to me. I wouldn't touch it.

[QuintLeo]

Back to bitmain and their finance, they've started a cloud mining business...

Bitmain has offered cloud mining for years intermittently.

[minefarmbuy]

Seems Bitmain english store is sparse. Thoughts?

[Steamtyme]

Whether it "reeks of desperation" or not, those are pretty attractive 30 day ROI's they are offering.

There is definitely a few dollars to be made if things stay the same. Odds are that if they do sell most of what they want to the discount price will dry up, it doesn't look like they are planning longer term offers at those prices, so it's kind of a buy now or never. Which is just smart advertising,

"the clock is running out, these deals won't last forever, once their gone their gone"

My comment about desperation was a reflection on their need for cash in hand now. There are companies that thrive and plan to operate at losses such as Amazon, but this isn't one of those times. They screwed with the market to heavily, and the BCH issues going back to it's creation no less have put a strain on how much cash they can splash around.

They honestly had everything going for them, Market Share, Branding, Diversification - with pools and hardware as well as taping different Algos. I'm still not sure their predicament right now is due to paying for chips, I think it was a shear loss of capital in what they had from Crypto, which hits them doubly as sales have staled. Combine that with a reckless disregard for stability; and you have the current situation.

[suchmoon]

Whether it "reeks of desperation" or not, those are pretty attractive 30 day ROI's they are offering.

Are we talking about that BitDeer thing? It looks horrible: $4400 for 1 PH/s for 30 days. That's actually more that you can expect to mine with current diff and exchange rate.

[digital$]

looks like they(Bitdeer) limit your mining to only antpool and BTC.com   wtf?

[philipma1957]

looks like they(Bitdeer) limit your mining to only antpool and BTC.com  wtf?

yep  cause they use the s15 to mine  which is about 50 watts a th if pointed to their pools.

50 watts a the = 1.2 kwatts a day

at 3 cent power that is 3.6 cents
at 4 cent power that is 4.8 cents
at 5 cent power that is 6.0 cents

they charge you 13 cents a th  up front   this puts you at 100% risk  for diff jumps and price drops

look at the gray line on the chart below

it is on the way up that is the current real time diff

i.e.  bitdeer f'ing idiots in the butt



look at the price dip  coins are now at 3114   this is bitdeer cashing out the buyins of the contract  right now  thus casuing price drop in the coins

so this new venture is directly raising diff and lowering price.

better yet  that can terminate your contract if it has 15 losing days in a row.  which it will if diff moves upward and price drops.

0%  risk for them 100% risk for you

[Norm MacDonald]

Unfortunately, from a strictly "psychological" standpoint, this is very indicative of a market that is not near it's price bottom yet. There are still too many people that are optimistic enough to throw money at a ridiculous scheme like this. For " capitulation " to truly occur, there needs to be an atmosphere of utter negativity and despair towards BTC. When you stop seeing stunned sheep using terms like "HODL" and start cursing at the very mention of "BTC", it's not over. There will be more blood. Hopefully that entails Bitmain going belly up.

[philipma1957]

Unfortunately, from a strictly "psychological" standpoint, this is very indicative of a market that is not near it's price bottom yet. There are still too many people that are optimistic enough to throw money at a ridiculous scheme like this. For " capitulation " to truly occur, there needs to be an atmosphere of utter negativity and despair towards BTC. When you stop seeing stunned sheep using terms like "HODL" and start cursing at the very mention of "BTC", it's not over. There will be more blood. Hopefully that entails Bitmain going belly up.

yeah  you are very likely correct.

I advise holding as much cash as possible rather then as much coin as possible.

my cash to coin %  is 80 cash to 20 coin

I have

BTC  which is about  60% of the coin
BCI which is about  30% of the coin
RVN say   4%
LTC  say   3%
Doge say 2%

various say 1%

[figmentofmyass]

I think inventing your own currency, making sure that everyone gets a buttload of it for free, and then trading hardware for only that currency ("giving it away") wasn't exactly a brilliant financial strategy.

perhaps not, but isn't it possible they own (or have access to) lots of obsolete mining hardware they can point at bcash, which would otherwise be useless? aside from the initial "airdrop" people needed to buy bcash to buy hardware---that propped up the price too. i figure these two points factored into their plan. it seems incredibly risky whatever the result.

still i am very skeptical of this story because coingeek (calvin ayre) seems to be the only source for it and TSMC seems to have refuted it.

[QuintLeo]

Seems Bitmain english store is sparse. Thoughts?

Bitmain finally closing out their firesale on their obsolete 28nm gear but haven't had the chance to ramp up production on most of the 14nm replacements yet due to their push to get S15/T15 units sold so they can meet their bills with current cashflow.

Anyone else notice this new "S11" unit - looks like the same chips as the S15/T15 but set to run at a slightly higher voltage per chip than the T15 giving lower efficiency, and a few less chips for lower hashrate.
Makes me wonder if there's going to be a "S13" sitting between this one and the T15 eventually.

[minefarmbuy]

They should drop the t15 to under 800 USD.

[mikeywith]

I just noticed that bitmain took everything off their English website, they kept only the S11,S15,T15 and DR5 .  and they all are due to ship next month !
the S11 is actually to be shipped by end of Jan ! .

seems like bitmain is in desperate need for CASH !

[QuintLeo]

They should drop the t15 to under 800 USD.

Doubt that will happen anytime in the next 2-3 years and DEFINITELY not in the next year (barring a major Bitcoin collapse well below the $2000 level) with their S11 in the $500 range as the new bottom-end of the line and the T15 still offering higher efficiency AND higher hashrate than the S11.

The way things look right now in the semiconductor industry, I don't expect a real "new node" past the current 7/10 nm node for at least 4 more years to reach "production" status, and it MIGHT take a lot longer than that given some of the commentary out of IBM and Intel and Intel's major issues getting their 10nm process to work well.

Quantum effects have been a noticeable issue in superconductors for a couple decades now (NOT counting Tunnel Diodes that were specifically engineered to take advantage of Quantum Effects) and it's been getting worse every new "node" generation on an exponential basis.

[minefarmbuy]

Price will drop. Will have to as new machines come out. Short term anything under $800 will benefit consumers in the US right now and drive sales.

Bitmain.com has a new look apparently.

[Mousem40]

Yup T15s at $840 minus any $65 coupons you've been given, making it a sub $800 unit.

[philipma1957]

Yup T15s at $840 minus any $65 coupons you've been given, making it a sub $800 unit.

lets do some usa math for usa buyer.

buy one at 840 +110 = 950 x 1.276 = 1212-65 = about 1150

high power = 23000gh and 1600 watts  I rounded

2 used s9i on eBay = 500
2 used psus =            170

total 670     vs 1150

hash  23000   watts 1600
hash  27000   watts  2550

pretend they come the same day I am spending 950 watts extra with the s9i  that is 25kwatts a day round up

750 kwatts a month  at 6 cent power that is 45 dollars a month  so in ten months you save 450 in power with the new gear

but you lose 4th a day in hash that is 24 dollars a month  current prices so you don't save 45 a month you save 21 a month for the new gear and you spent an extra 480 to do so.

so buying the t15 at 840 with a 65 dollar coupon is moron move for a usa buyer when he can buy 2 s9i's used on eBay easy peasy.

Bitmain has fucked the game up hard.

now that is a 6 cent power  set of fact  480/21 = 23 months to be even

at 7 cent it is faster  you gain 28.50 a month over the s9i.