Bitcoin Proof of Stake fork

[HeRetiK]

Yes we are and utterly disregarding the scientific consensus won't change that. And I'm telling you that as someone who hasn't had a TV for two decades and isn't even sure what counts as mainstream media these days. Not like I care anyway.

Well how did you learn about this ''eviromental desaster'' if not from mainstream media brainwashing corporation, broken educational system, or their social media propaganda machinery?

We probably went to school in very different countries at very different times so I doubt we have a common frame of reference as far as a "broken educational system" is concerned. Not meant as a dig or anything, I just don't think it's possible to make meaningful, time-independent blanket statements about educational systems around the world.

Also, who the fuck gives a shit about social media?

I didn't say there is no ecological problems [...] but it's not caused by Bitcoin mining that uses 1% of electric energy.

...which is exactly what I wrote in my post.

I disagree with your statements about the severity and cause of climate change.

I do agree with your statements that PoW is not the culprit and that PoS is not the solution.

I won't be going into detail about the former because this is not the outlet to discuss this and I neither will be able to convince you nor do I care. My thoughts on the latter I already posted above; just know that it is my honest opinion that (1) PoW is the only viable option for realizing permissionless finance, (2) Bitcoin's current environmental impact is overstated and that (3) Bitcoin's potential to holistically reduce the environmental impact of finance is underestimated.



Edit:

You are just replacing fossil fuels and coal with lithium and other poisons that are ALL coming from guess where from... yes from China.

Australia and Chile! I'm staying clear of the stuff that I deem conspiratorial but please get at least the simplest of facts straight. China may play a bigger role in some of the other rare earths, but as far as lithium is concerned China is far behind Australia and Chile both in terms of production and reserves.

[dkbit98]

Also, who the fuck gives a shit about social media?

You still didn't answer, where the heck you get your information from?

I disagree with your statements about the severity and cause of climate change.

Fact is that climate is always changing since the beginning of time, we had little ice age not so long ago, we had known big biblical floods and volcanos recorder in history even without man creating machines, masks and other crap.
Cause of climate change is not breath and co2 of human beings.

Australia and Chile! I'm staying clear of the stuff that I deem conspiratorial but please get at least the simplest of facts straight. China may play a bigger role in some of the other rare earths, but as far as lithium is concerned China is far behind Australia and Chile both in terms of production and reserves.

Let's talk the facts mr. Fact Checker, and please do proper research and not one minute quick google search before doing edits  

World largest lithium mining company is Jiangxi Ganfeng Lithium from CHINA, that owns lithium resources in Australia, Argentina and Mexico.
Third largest company is Tianqi Lithium also from CHINA, owning lithium resources in Australia, Chile and China, and controling around 46% of global lithium production.

It's a well known fact that most of the smartphones are made in China, most of the asic miners are made in China, and China is totally controlling battery production with over 80% of all batteries (including lithium ones) are produced in... China.
Now use those DuckDuckGo search and search for word Rio Tinto, and then look for images of ecological disaster created by big corporation digging Lithium and other crap.
So it's not small people causing disasters, but big corporations, and there is nothing conspiratorial about that.

I do agree with your statements that PoW is not the culprit and that PoS is not the solution.

At least we can agree about Bitcoin and PoW part.

[HeRetiK]

You still didn't answer, where the heck you get your information from?

You're the one arguing against scientific consensus, not me. Next thing we know you are asking me to prove that the earth isn't flat. I won't bother going down that road, thank you very much.

Fact is that climate is always changing since the beginning of time, we had little ice age not so long ago

Yes, except cyclically speaking we'd be up for a new ice age soon, rather than a steady increase in temperature.

Cause of climate change is not breath and co2 of human beings.

You're right, it's not. That's also not the carbon emissions being referred to when talking about climate change. If you believe that that's what people think is causing climate change then yes, that would make no sense

Read the following carefully, it may be something that you have missed and that may cause you to reconsider some of your positions:

It's not the CO2 that humans breathe out that is causing problems. That CO2 is already part of the ecosystem.

The problem is "new" CO2 being reintroduced to the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels. Coals, oil, etc... that's all carbon that had been taken out of the atmosphere and bound in solid form millions of years ago. That's where the imbalance comes from. Not from people breathing.

Think of it like inflation. It's the central banks printing more money that's causing inflation. Not people spending their money.

World largest lithium mining company is Jiangxi Ganfeng Lithium from CHINA, that owns lithium resources in Australia, Argentina and Mexico.
Third largest company is Tianqi Lithium also from CHINA, owning lithium resources in Australia, Chile and China, and controling around 46% of global lithium production.

Point taken.

Now use those DuckDuckGo search and search for word Rio Tinto, and then look for images of ecological disaster created by big corporation digging Lithium and other crap.

To rephrase one of your statements above:

I am not saying that lithium batteries are a perfect system but it is best we have so far with energy storage.

Also that's completely ignoring the enviromental impact caused by oil and coal extraction. You know, the "other crap" that big corporations are digging up. At much larger quantities.

That being said, shifting electricity from coal to renewables -- the aspect actually relevant to Bitcoin -- has very little to do with lithium extraction. Lithium is currently relevant for getting cars off fossil fuels, yes, but less so for how electricity is produced. The lithium batteries in your laptop, smartphone, etc. care very little about whether the electricity comes from renewables or not.

So it's not small people causing disasters, but big corporations, and there is nothing conspiratorial about that.

Again, not what I said. Actually quite the opposite.

The conspiratorial part I am referring to was the statement about big corporations buying out scientific consensus to shill climate change.

It's almost close to the truth though. Shell and Exxon had suppressed data on the impact of carbon emissions since the 80s, so there was some corporate meddling regarding climate change. Except the money to follow would have been fossil fuel companies.

[dkbit98]

You're the one arguing against scientific consensus, not me.

Please show me this miracle scientific consensus, I can't find it anywhere and I would like to see names and biographies for all those experts.
I am not arguing against science, but I am not going to bow down science as some weird new age religion, and not use my head for thinking and researching.

Yes, except cyclically speaking we'd be up for a new ice age soon, rather than a steady increase in temperature.

Exactly.
Watch what happens every time temperatures reach peak, after that they decline, and that is fact recognized by science.
I remember Al Gore and other fake eco-political clowns predicting in 2009 that North Pole would be totally free of ice in five years, or prince Charles saying in 2009 we only have 8 years to save the planet...
Here is interesting record for 50 years of wrong eco-pocalyptic predictions:
https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

It's not the CO2 that humans breathe out that is causing problems. That CO2 is already part of the ecosystem.

The problem is "new" CO2 being reintroduced to the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels. Coals, oil, etc... that's all carbon that had been taken out of the atmosphere and bound in solid form millions of years ago. That's where the imbalance comes from. Not from people breathing.

OMG... you deserve a medal for what you just said.
WE are the carbon life form and so is every other living and dead thing on earth, so there is NO imbalance of co2, except maybe in your head and in heads of those expert scientist.

I am not saying that lithium batteries are a perfect system but it is best we have so far with energy storage.

So you are supporting ecological distaster as long it is not happening in your country and in your background right?
Lithium excavation destroyed and keep destroying so many countries and rivers, so please do proper research before saying something like that.
Replacing excavation of one thing with another is NOT the solution for pollution, but it is making some people and corporations richer and other people more stupid for believing them.

That being said, shifting electricity from coal to renewables -- the aspect actually relevant to Bitcoin -- has very little to do with lithium extraction. Lithium is currently relevant for getting cars off fossil fuels, yes, but less so for how electricity is produced. The lithium batteries in your laptop, smartphone, etc. care very little about whether the electricity comes from renewables or not.

Batteries are literally the thing those experts propose for replacing coal and oil, and what renewable energy can we use for Bitcoin is hydro, solar, wind and maybe nuclear (if you consider that to be renewable and green).
Bitcoin and asic miners also don't care where the energy comes from, so what's the problem if the power is coming from coal or volcanos.

[Keremgor]

 i cant believe people Still comparing POW with pos after 12 years of Bitcoin..

[Cypherpunk_2077]

I am glad that the bitcoin community doesn't see much value in POS yet. Apart from the obvious security issues you can't just swap it without seriously disrupting the power balance in BTC. Also POS works for the rich. There is a point that your earnings from staking become more than your life expenses and you just keep stacking more and more without taking any risks. Your children's children can do the same. Voting rights depend on the amount of stake too. As for how much greener it is I am not sure about that either. In bitcoin's competition between miners the winner is the one wasting the least energy. You can't beat a guy using the excess of his photovoltaic by burning oil. Not to mention the technological advancements that pop up because of this. Critical achievements can be accomplished in renewables just because there can be instant and easy gain.