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Author Topic: Protection of miners due to voltage fluxes.  (Read 182 times)
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philipma1957
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September 06, 2019, 02:52:56 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2019, 03:13:46 AM by frodocooper
 #1

So we have an issue in Clifton NJ  we are running 3 phase and we have had a srop to 190 volts on a regular basis.

This unit  will do about 3000 watts none stop but it is garbage inside.

https://www.amazon.com/Norstar-DAVR-5000110-transformer-Automatic-Regulator/dp/B07169Z3XX

It does work very well on the s17pro we have.  But  it has 14 gauge wire inside and I don't trust it to doe an m20s or any 3000 watt unit.

Below are some larger commercial units.

https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/TSI%20POWER/TSI%20POWER/VRP-20000-0230

https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/TSI%20POWER/TSI%20POWER/VRP-15000-0230

https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/TSI%20POWER/TSI%20POWER/VRP-10000-0230

https://www.radwell.com/en-US/Buy/TSI%20POWER/TSI%20POWER/VRP-7500-0230

these are 1 phase.  but I could also get a 3 phase unit.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 06, 2019, 03:42:08 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2019, 03:14:37 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (3), philipma1957 (2)
 #2

If it is infrequent, this could be a lower cost option to use while you scream at your utility to fix the issue. It'll shut down power if the voltage drops too low, and can be set up to restart after a delay once voltage comes back up. Not ideal, but it'd take a long time to pay back several thousand dollars for those voltage regulators.

https://www.amazon.com/ICM-Controls-ICM400-Three-Phase-Protection/dp/B000TMM746
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September 06, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2019, 03:15:24 AM by frodocooper
 #3

This is a hard money call for me.

Manufactured by TSI POWER
TSI POWER
VRP-15000-0230
VRP150000230
PRECISION PWM VOLTAGE REGULATOR
HW CONNECTION
172~276VACINPUT
230VAC+/-3%OUTPUT
15KW
AVAILABLE
REBUILT SURPLUS = $1925 2 year warranty

15000 watt model will do my 3 whatsminer's  which take 10000 watts and it will do a 2000 watt miner say the inno t39

that is about 220th of my 900th  but it is 1925 usd.

the cheapo amazon is 179 and will do some the s17 the t17 the inno t39 the avalon 1041

but I do not think it can do the 3300-3400 watt units .  I could order five of them for 900 but they take up space. etc.

At the moment  both inno's dropped out 24 + 39 = 63 th  and part of the m21s dropped out 18th = 81th  along with 2 s9's

81th + 27th = 108th.  I know it is power fluxes since the amazon linked regulator shows we dropped to 190 volts

when this happens some psus  won't work and I get drop outs.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 06, 2019, 05:16:39 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2019, 03:15:53 AM by frodocooper
 #4

I'm impressed with the efficiency of the TSI regulators, they claim 96% - 98%.

http://www.nooutage.com/pdf/TSi-VRp-7500W-15000W-1ph_2012.pdf

Couldn't find specs on the Amazon one, doubt it is that good though.

You could buy a single phase monitor and wire it to control contactors for all your equipment that has issue with low voltage, and spend the $1800 left over on some more hashrate.
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September 06, 2019, 06:28:40 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2019, 03:16:10 AM by frodocooper
 #5

The one on amazon has run an s15 and then an s17pro perfectly.  Even with multiple drops in volts to 190.  But it is wired poorly. I opened it and it has 14 gauge wire throughout. Including the power input cord. So it is never going to do 5000va but it does do the s17pro at 2225 watts with no issues. In a magical world where everything goes my way I would have 60 s17pros on low speed and use 60 of the amazon gear. I have enough shelf space . And would do about 2.4ph at about 90kwatts.  The reality is I can't do that. I suppose I could monitor the power and see how often I sag.
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September 06, 2019, 08:43:10 PM
 #6

Depending on what kind of "protection" you want. The simplest and cheapest is just cut the power when the fluctuation exceeds a threshold. For miners this might be good enough, and certainly better than nothing (as most miners operations are). There is a variant of this with adjustable timers for when to restore power, make sure to use these, you don't want hundreds of units coming on at precisely the same time...

As for actual power correction (as in transformer) which you seem to seek, its very expensive and unscalable for large operations. You already had one of those so you already know how expensive they are, but yes they'll do a great job protecting your PSUs.

When the large miner is faced between the price of replacing a PSU or purchasing one of these for each unit, you can guess what the answer is.

But the simplest ones that just cut power and have an adjustable timer for restoring it, should not be neglected.

Don't bother with UPS, for the same reason solar power users shouldn't bother with batteries and stick to their grid tie inverter. Batteries are too expensive and die too quickly (3 years). Except perhaps Tesla's powerwall, but those are probably too expensive and unnecessary anyway.

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September 06, 2019, 11:17:32 PM
Last edit: September 07, 2019, 03:17:19 AM by frodocooper
 #7

Hmm  if I get a larger industrial one for 1900 it would cover 15000 watts  considering that a s17 is 3000 and I could protect 6 s17's with the industrial

it does scale if they last. 6 s17's are close to 18000 + 4500 trump tax = 22500  if the transformer does the job it is worth it.

turning off all the gear is not ideal.  If the amazon one was just a little better and could do the big 3500 watt gear it would be worth it.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 07, 2019, 02:23:51 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2019, 04:29:31 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #8

If voltage drops too low 10% of the time and you shut down all those miners that drop out (144th?) every time voltage dips , even with free power that is only about $3.50 lost per day, or about 18 months to pay back the $1900 for the regulator (if price tracks diff). Even with the all s17 scenario, with power cost you're probably still taking a year.

On the other hand, the regulator isn't going devalue like a miner over time. When the s17s are no longer profitable, the regulator might still be needed for the the s17s replacement. So thinking about it that way, a year or two to pay back the investment isn't really that bad.
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September 07, 2019, 03:03:57 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2019, 04:29:57 AM by frodocooper
 #9

The 15000 watt unit is probably good if it lasts 3 or more years. I am talking it over with a few people.

At the moment the voltage drop  takes out my inno's time and time again  and they do not reset when the voltages go back up.

My gear at the moment has:

2 offline inno's  24+39 =63
2 offline s9's     13+13 =26
1 m21s 1 board      18 = 18
total of about                107th offline. that is a 50-50 split or 53.5th which is 0.0012171btc a day for me that is about 13 a day

the argument is pretty good that it is worth it to buy one.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 07, 2019, 06:51:54 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2019, 04:30:17 AM by frodocooper
 #10

Phill , why don't you consider some of these cheap Chinese voltage regulator/stabilizer > https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/automatic-voltage-regulator-avr-100kva_60375919736.html

This is a 100kva sells for 1200-1400$ in China, I am not sure about the techincal differences between the once you posted and these, but those are way too expensive, anyhow I am using similar once to these  , a single phase 20KW ( hit me on telegram I can send you some photos) , but I don't go past 15kw on them, just to be on the safe side, and they always keep the voltage in the 220-230 range very efficiently, I have one phase that goes down all the way to 170 sometimes, but with these I have not had a single problem.

The only problem you will have with these is the shipping, they are very heavy, you will need to use sea freight for the shipping to be acceptable.

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September 08, 2019, 01:37:49 PM
 #11

Phil  did you order from alibaba?
philipma1957
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September 08, 2019, 01:50:54 PM
Last edit: September 09, 2019, 04:31:25 AM by frodocooper
 #12

@ yankees I found this on amazon  for 290

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072DV7QGL

It has to be hard wired.

If I wire it to a 30amp  240 circuit  it will be protected via the  30 amp circuit breaker.


I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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September 10, 2019, 08:50:47 PM
 #13

Hmm  if I get a larger industrial one for 1900 it would cover 15000 watts  considering that a s17 is 3000 and I could protect 6 s17's with the industrial

it does scale if they last. 6 s17's are close to 18000 + 4500 trump tax = 22500  if the transformer does the job it is worth it.

turning off all the gear is not ideal.  If the amazon one was just a little better and could do the big 3500 watt gear it would be worth it.

Even with the voltage regulator (transformer) there is a limit which if exceeded, will cut the power anyway. So its not like its guaranteed they will not cut the power at times. This is supposed to be an anomaly that should not occur frequently...

philipma1957
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September 11, 2019, 11:20:27 AM
Last edit: September 11, 2019, 11:32:15 PM by frodocooper
 #14

the grid is in an old section of the town.

trouble started in the summer.

I am getting the one unit from amazon today

It will be hard wired.

I have a few  higher end  mining units I am looking to protect.

I do agree a new transformer may be the correct solution.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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