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Author Topic: [ANN] [HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast  (Read 542188 times)
Wenzel745
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April 09, 2014, 03:29:27 AM
 #4381

@Cayars For the ASIC part, I disagree. To my understanding your hash speed will only be as fast as the slowest algorithm, so using an asic would be useless and multi-gpu distributed hashing wouldn't be much better. Regardless, as I said in my last post, that isn't the problem.

Big problem 1) The votes are TOO DAMN HIGH. Voting will be the death of the coin. All PoW coins need mass adoption and a crap ton of transactions in order to survive. (The reason Bitcoin will survive even after 100% mint is because transaction volumes will keep rewarding for new blocks). IF HVC were to survive, it would need to achieve mass adoption before the end of the limit phase, which at this rate cannot happen.

Big problem 2) The coin has no meaningful innovations to offer. It is competing against Blackcoin (BC), Myriadcoin (MYR) and Zetacoin (ZET) for an up-and-coming place in crypto this year, and the only upside to it is the new algo. Problem with that is, MYR has a MUCH cooler Algo system, and QRK kinda already has that issue covered, as do all X11 coins.

I really like HVC. It was the first crypto I mined and I think it had some real innovations. But as a trader as well, I can find no reasons to justify long term survival of HVC without the Devs pulling off what ZET did (allegedly, we'll know tomorrow) and achieve some form of real world utility.

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HVC: HJWFdgUJPEw1oiLckBFPBzs8vCTLokCGgd
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April 09, 2014, 03:38:25 AM
 #4382

I am using the latest miner and this is my bat file

setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
COLOR 0A
del *.bin
cgminer.exe --heavy --vote 512 -w 64 -o stratum+tcp://hvcpool.1gh.com:5333 -u x-p VIP -o stratum+tcp://hvcpool2.1gh.com:5333 -u x-p VIP -I 8 --gpu-memclock 1400,1600,1300,1300 --gpu-engine 1000,1100,950,950

The GPUs are as follows 7970, 280x toxic, 7950, 7950

I am getting around 10MH/s each of these... any ideas? I thought I should be getting 20MH/s each?

I am using the latest miner with the 13.12 installed

Lower the memory clock on the 280 to 1500Mhz, increase GPU clock on the 7950s to 1000Mhz, try a different worksize, add "-g 2" for multi-thread mining, try "-X 4" instead of "-I 8", add "--thread-concurrency 8193".

My 7950s run 1050/1450 at ~15Mh/s
My 280s run 1100/1500 at ~20Mh/s.
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April 09, 2014, 04:23:00 AM
 #4383

@Cayars For the ASIC part, I disagree. To my understanding your hash speed will only be as fast as the slowest algorithm, so using an asic would be useless and multi-gpu distributed hashing wouldn't be much better. Regardless, as I said in my last post, that isn't the problem.

Big problem 1) The votes are TOO DAMN HIGH. Voting will be the death of the coin. All PoW coins need mass adoption and a crap ton of transactions in order to survive. (The reason Bitcoin will survive even after 100% mint is because transaction volumes will keep rewarding for new blocks). IF HVC were to survive, it would need to achieve mass adoption before the end of the limit phase, which at this rate cannot happen.

Big problem 2) The coin has no meaningful innovations to offer. It is competing against Blackcoin (BC), Myriadcoin (MYR) and Zetacoin (ZET) for an up-and-coming place in crypto this year, and the only upside to it is the new algo. Problem with that is, MYR has a MUCH cooler Algo system, and QRK kinda already has that issue covered, as do all X11 coins.

I really like HVC. It was the first crypto I mined and I think it had some real innovations. But as a trader as well, I can find no reasons to justify long term survival of HVC without the Devs pulling off what ZET did (allegedly, we'll know tomorrow) and achieve some form of real world utility.

What will we allegedly know tomorrow?
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April 09, 2014, 04:41:10 AM
 #4384

Coin was sold as CPU only by the devs.
 True. It is not the first CPU only coin to be GPU mined. HVC brought us 50% less power than scrypt and cool cards. I think we can all agree these are beneficial to GPU miners. Why is the loss of CPU only so important?

Coin has what many consider a unique feature of decentralized voting but it's more gimmick then anything else due to implementation failures.
 I agree that it could have been implemented much better, votes should have been set at zero, and people forced to choose. Connection strings should have left the -v as 0, again forcing people to choose. We still have the power to change the duration of the mint phase. If the community dropped the vote to 1, so we mint 720 coins per day, 45,000,000-22,873,154= 22,127,428 coins remaining in mint phase/720= 30,732.538889 days until end of mint phase. We could mine the mint phase for another 84 years if my math is right. We need to come together as a community and lower the vote, which would demonstrate a solid community for the coin, which helps people give the coin value. Not a gimmick at all, no other coin even allows for such happenings.

Devs made a horrible choice in having three phases of production which are Mint, Limit and Sustain
Don't all coins give you lower rewards as they age and the difficulty gets higher? Does changing the mint phase duration change the effect of limit and sustain phase in your assessment?

A few miners hold the keys to most of the coins
The whales are everywhere, this is certainly not specific to HVC. There would have been whales if it was CPU only too.

Lets get the vote down and get ourselves more time.

Myriad coin will mint 2 billion coins. Zetacoin Initial coin mining is 160 million coins, thereafter a yearly inflation of 1 million coins. Blackcoin strikes me as a scam. I don't see how any of those coins are better than HVC, even at max supply of 128,000,000.
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April 09, 2014, 05:49:10 AM
 #4385

@Cayars For the ASIC part, I disagree. To my understanding your hash speed will only be as fast as the slowest algorithm, so using an asic would be useless and multi-gpu distributed hashing wouldn't be much better. Regardless, as I said in my last post, that isn't the problem.

Big problem 1) The votes are TOO DAMN HIGH. Voting will be the death of the coin. All PoW coins need mass adoption and a crap ton of transactions in order to survive. (The reason Bitcoin will survive even after 100% mint is because transaction volumes will keep rewarding for new blocks). IF HVC were to survive, it would need to achieve mass adoption before the end of the limit phase, which at this rate cannot happen.

Big problem 2) The coin has no meaningful innovations to offer. It is competing against Blackcoin (BC), Myriadcoin (MYR) and Zetacoin (ZET) for an up-and-coming place in crypto this year, and the only upside to it is the new algo. Problem with that is, MYR has a MUCH cooler Algo system, and QRK kinda already has that issue covered, as do all X11 coins.

I really like HVC. It was the first crypto I mined and I think it had some real innovations. But as a trader as well, I can find no reasons to justify long term survival of HVC without the Devs pulling off what ZET did (allegedly, we'll know tomorrow) and achieve some form of real world utility.

What will we allegedly know tomorrow?

There's a ton of Zeta talk on Twitter, some big announcement of the culmination of a huge real world project being announced in a few hours. Can be certain, but it seems legit. We'll see.

BTC: 163pZXhATaWiuGAX9o9y6PuKCF8ipDWnJH
HVC: HJWFdgUJPEw1oiLckBFPBzs8vCTLokCGgd
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April 09, 2014, 05:51:09 AM
 #4386

Coin was sold as CPU only by the devs.
 True. It is not the first CPU only coin to be GPU mined. HVC brought us 50% less power than scrypt and cool cards. I think we can all agree these are beneficial to GPU miners. Why is the loss of CPU only so important?
Goes to credibility
Quote
Coin has what many consider a unique feature of decentralized voting but it's more gimmick then anything else due to implementation failures.
 I agree that it could have been implemented much better, votes should have been set at zero, and people forced to choose. Connection strings should have left the -v as 0, again forcing people to choose. We still have the power to change the duration of the mint phase. If the community dropped the vote to 1, so we mint 720 coins per day, 45,000,000-22,873,154= 22,127,428 coins remaining in mint phase/720= 30,732.538889 days until end of mint phase. We could mine the mint phase for another 84 years if my math is right. We need to come together as a community and lower the vote, which would demonstrate a solid community for the coin, which helps people give the coin value. Not a gimmick at all, no other coin even allows for such happenings.
Problem with this is that it was flawed from the launch by amateur design, so any vote change won't matter (nor did it ever really matter). The 3 "phrases" don't make sense as implemented. Being more specific. This coin is just barely profitable right now for some and not for others already.  There are many other coins much more profitable right now any way you cut it. It's almost impossible to get ROI on equipment at CURRENT levels per block on HVC.  If EVERYONE lowered their vote then we would get an extended "mint" phase but then it would NOT be profitable to mine at all so no one would mine it due to higher diff level. So it's would self kill.  On the other hand with higher vote count there is more coins to mine for a short time to make it profitable short term (maybe). But then we get to limit phase and 56 days later the coin is dead as no one will mine it.

Both are bad, by poor design and right now without a "core" change it can't be fixed. This is why I said the vote count really doesn't matter. The vote count can maybe buy another 56 days before it dies.

Because of the faulty implementation it's doomed. No one that does any proper research on this coin could find ANY reason to invest in it that I can see.

I would love to see ANYONE post a scenario where the coin lives into the summer without a rapid death spiral.  Try doing the math and see if you can find any possible way it survives short of somehow changing the core (spaced out time line, different coin count or somehow changing/morphing into a POS).  The only way involves a change that invalidates the central voting feature and completely abolishing the 3 current phases as these do not mathematically work at present nor since it was launched.  At this point the credibility of the coin is gone as there is nothing left unique to the coin. If you go to this extreme to fix things then I'd ask why?  It would be much easier to fix things with a brand new launch of a new coin.  Probably harsh to say but am I wrong?

If you do the math, you'll find the decentralized vote count is an illusion at best.

Quote
Devs made a horrible choice in having three phases of production which are Mint, Limit and Sustain
Don't all coins give you lower rewards as they age and the difficulty gets higher? Does changing the mint phase duration change the effect of limit and sustain phase in your assessment?
Sure, but by design most don't setup a coin to mine 90% or so in the first couple of months. The problem I have is the sustain phase. It by design throws the diff off the charts and will halt mining.  So what do you do then? With other coins that are designed without the "trick/illusion" phases it's predetermined how many coins can be mined.  The block values SLOWLY adjust over time based on hash rate and not by some other "trick" thrown in (that was not thought out AT ALL).  This gives the coin a chance to build value if everything else is done well.  With other coins, as diff rises people stop mining and move to a different more profitable coin. Then diff lowers and people move back, cycle of mining.  With HVC and the sustain phase this can't work.  Once it hits that phase the diff level is sky high and no intelligent miner will touch it.

The only exception I can see to the above paragraph is what I alluded to in a previous post.  Some how, some way, in a real short term the core team will need to get the value to 100 times it's current value.  With a set amount of coins to be produced in the sustain phase of 10 million coins at the minimal amount of time 4.7 years there has to be some serious value to the coin for people to continue mining it.

I just don't see this happening.  Do any of you?  I just don't think there is any credibility to the coin or ideas behind it that work as "marketed". A lot of stuff sounds good when you first hear it, but breaking it down and analyzing it... With no real credibility behind it how do you increase the value to a point that will allow the sustain phase to exist?

Quote
A few miners hold the keys to most of the coins
The whales are everywhere, this is certainly not specific to HVC. There would have been whales if it was CPU only too.

Lets get the vote down and get ourselves more time.

Myriad coin will mint 2 billion coins. Zetacoin Initial coin mining is 160 million coins, thereafter a yearly inflation of 1 million coins. Blackcoin strikes me as a scam. I don't see how any of those coins are better than HVC, even at max supply of 128,000,000.

I don't really like any of them particularly either but they each probably have something really unique they are doing. HVC has nothing once you start to peel back the marketing and really look at the implementation.

You guys can quote me and throw this back at me at a later time, but don't say I didn't foretell the future and tell you there will be a death spiral coming by the end of the limit phase if not sooner. Sad

Keep holding your HVC like a boss if you think they will have a future and be worth something but I just don't see it.

Again, I'd love for someone to show me where my logic is wrong.

Carlo
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April 09, 2014, 06:08:59 AM
 #4387

Here's how the sustain phase would have to work: HVC would have to have widespread enough adoption and support for the transaction fee too fill the block value. That is why Alt coins in general have the mint spread over long durations of time, decades even. It takes A LOT of innovation and A LOT of investment to build up enough support for sustaining the network post-mint. Bitcoin isn't even there yet. Trust me, I'm an HVC supporter and I'm holding ~1/3 of what I've mined in hope it lives, but without a massive momentum shift I think it'll be a hard sell. Perhaps a better thought out HVC 2.0 will launch and that will be engineered to live on, but my faith is shaken for HVC.

Other issue I have is the presence of the Dev. I know a lot of trolls were trolling about this earlier, but it feels to me like Kekkak is showing up once a week, and if this coin is really going to make a splash I think it needs more than that. IDK, I'm somewhat new to this. Whether or not BC, MYR and ZET are long term contenders is another discussion for another time, but I just can't see HVC taking them on in market cap.

Then again, maybe it will. That's why I still hold Smiley

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April 09, 2014, 07:23:14 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 07:40:53 AM by jakiman
 #4388

Problem with this is that it was flawed from the launch by amateur design, so any vote change won't matter (nor did it ever really matter). The 3 "phrases" don't make sense as implemented. Being more specific. This coin is just barely profitable right now for some and not for others already.  There are many other coins much more profitable right now any way you cut it. It's almost impossible to get ROI on equipment at CURRENT levels per block on HVC.  If EVERYONE lowered their vote then we would get an extended "mint" phase but then it would NOT be profitable to mine at all so no one would mine it due to higher diff level. So it's would self kill.  On the other hand with higher vote count there is more coins to mine for a short time to make it profitable short term (maybe). But then we get to limit phase and 56 days later the coin is dead as no one will mine it.

The whole point of democratic vote is just that. Miners want to mine it with super high block rewards. They vote for it. It gets minted super quick. Price stays low. That's expected. But also with any democratic society, some one convincing enough can change the fate of this coin by getting everyone to start voting lower gradually. By what you say, every country should be self killing right now as everyone is greedy. But that doesn't happen. (well, not every time. =p)

So yeah, the fate of this coin can still change although not easily. If you disagree, that's because you only see the pessimistic side of things. There is no need to try and convince yourself and everyone here about what you think. We heard you the first time. I hope the developer heard you also. But I don't think it needs any fundamental change. It only needs better marketing and a more influential leader / group to change the voting.

Also, last time I checked, there are barely any coins that are a lot more profitable to any other coin. We are talking peanuts in terms of difference. HVC is no different to most. So I'm not sure why you say it as if HVC is abnormal being not profitable compared to other coins. It's not abnormal. Bitcoin was not profitable also at times. Same for Litecoin for a long time.

Quote
I just don't see this happening.  Do any of you?  I just don't think there is any credibility to the coin or ideas behind it that work as "marketed". A lot of stuff sounds good when you first hear it, but breaking it down and analyzing it... With no real credibility behind it how do you increase the value to a point that will allow the sustain phase to exist?

I don't see Bitcoin becoming $1 million USD either. But some strongly believe that it will. So who is right? Last time i checked, other than Bitcoin being the first and Litecoin second, they are "now" technically NOT any better than many other newer coins. Yes, most are copy coins but many have slight differences and sometimes, that's all it takes to succeed over some other coin or perceived as being better.

So yeah, what are you trying to prove? That you are correct and everyone else should see it same way as you?
HVC value doesn't need to go up 100 times. Whatever price it ends up is what it's true value is at that point in time.
If suddenly people can only mine 70 times less than now, let's see what happens then. Speculation isn't the truth.

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April 09, 2014, 10:28:49 AM
 #4389

The coin was sold as using Kimoto Gravity Well but this was also quickly replaced by Temporal Retargeting which is a "home-brew" different way of adjusting difficulty on the fly. 

That's not true.  We never used Kimoto Gravity Well.  We innovated Temporal Retargeting from the start.  This is visible on the forums going all the way back to the PRE-ANN, but also in the source code.

Am I wrong on anything I've said that has any substance?

Carlo

You need to check your facts and read a bit more.
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April 09, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 11:03:22 AM by keccak512
 #4390

The bigger problem I see is that once out of limit phase which is 56 days, there is no reason left to mine this coin as the diff level is "beyond" through the roof.  The coin itself is dead at

Except there's a 5 to 38+ year sustain phase.  This is documented here: http://heavycoin.github.io/about.html#decentralised-voting

Did you bother reading anything before posting?

Heavycoin is being mined so intensely because it's a solid coin with unique innovations and developer support.

The code has been working very well without issues.  Heavycoin's unique retargeting algorithm is also working extremely well with no hard-forks, unlike so many copy and paste coins.

Long-term Heavycoin will continue to flourish.  Even at 8 HVC per block in the sustain phase, that's 40 HVC per 10 min, which is pretty good for a relatively small money supply.
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April 09, 2014, 11:02:40 AM
 #4391

Here's how the sustain phase would have to work: HVC would have to have widespread enough adoption and support for the transaction fee too fill the block value. That is why Alt coins in general have the mint spread over long durations of time, decades even. It takes A LOT of innovation and A LOT of investment to build up enough support for sustaining the network post-mint. Bitcoin isn't even there yet. Trust me, I'm an HVC supporter and I'm holding ~1/3 of what I've mined in hope it lives, but without a massive momentum shift I think it'll be a hard sell. Perhaps a better thought out HVC 2.0 will launch and that will be engineered to live on, but my faith is shaken for HVC.

Other issue I have is the presence of the Dev. I know a lot of trolls were trolling about this earlier, but it feels to me like Kekkak is showing up once a week, and if this coin is really going to make a splash I think it needs more than that. IDK, I'm somewhat new to this. Whether or not BC, MYR and ZET are long term contenders is another discussion for another time, but I just can't see HVC taking them on in market cap.

Then again, maybe it will. That's why I still hold Smiley

There have been some very successful altcoins (eg. Quark) without long mint durations or where most minting happens earlier on.

As with all coins before Heavycoin, the community will determine Heavycoin's success.  Relying on two developers will not work.  A community effort/swarm is infinitely more powerful and likely to succeed.

We developers will continue to maintain and develop the code.  We will also back community efforts with the Heavycoin fund.  If you have ideas for promotion, then put them forward (eg. PM us).  Kreativekrypto is handling marketing and has some great ideas, but I'm sure he'd like more community involvement.

We developers have also been focusing on getting some quality articles publish about Heavycoin.  We've been working with a CoinDesk author on an article and also with someone at the Verge on another article.  The process is a bit more involved than we expected and even those authors cannot guarantee publication, as it depends on whether the CoinDesk (editor?) will publish the article in the end.  With all the Bitcoin commotion going on things could go slowly, but we are hopeful.

Another area we feel is important is getting Heavycoin into use, for example, on shops and payment networks such as AltOutlet and Digipay/Moolah.  We are actively perusing these goals, but many are long-term.   Again, nothing helps more than direct, self-organized action by the community.
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April 09, 2014, 11:31:01 AM
 #4392

I dont see any  underlying problems with HVC except for the VOTE being too damn high.
One solution could be a fund that the community could donate to which will rent cloudmining power and vote the rewards down. All the mining revenue could go to sustain the operations.
Getting the blockreward to 50-100HVC per block would eventually increase the value greatly, would make the minting period much longer and decrease the sudden drop in mining revenues once minting phase is over.
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April 09, 2014, 11:33:10 AM
 #4393

The mining of coins is really completely irrelevant to their use as a currency. Best to vote 1024, get the coins produced as quickly as possible, and move on to using it as a currency which is the real point of it.

The Sustain phase will self regulate by the number of miners falling to a level that makes it generate a small profit for them. This would be no problem for the coin's primary function of being used as a currency, except for that fact that the resulting low network hashrate could make the coin vulnerable to a 51% attack.
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April 09, 2014, 11:39:26 AM
 #4394

The bigger problem I see is that once out of limit phase which is 56 days, there is no reason left to mine this coin as the diff level is "beyond" through the roof.  The coin itself is dead at

Except there's a 5 to 38+ year sustain phase.  This is documented here: http://heavycoin.github.io/about.html#decentralised-voting

Did you bother reading anything before posting?

Heavycoin is being mined so intensely because it's a solid coin with unique innovations and developer support.

The code has been working very well without issues.  Heavycoin's unique retargeting algorithm is also working extremely well with no hard-forks, unlike so many copy and paste coins.

Long-term Heavycoin will continue to flourish.  Even at 8 HVC per block in the sustain phase, that's 40 HVC per 10 min, which is pretty good for a relatively small money supply.
90% of coins will be mine if 4-5 months and then 10% in 5-38+ years....if you dont see the point i cant explane you..hash rate in sustain phase would be minimal ( prise can not rise with this ridilous inflation ) so anyone with a rig farm could make a 51% attack and kill the coin whatewher he wants..who will drop money in something that is not safe at all?

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April 09, 2014, 11:41:28 AM
 #4395

The mining of coins is really completely irrelevant to their use as a currency. Best to vote 1024, get the coins produced as quickly as possible, and move on to using it as a currency which is the real point of it.

The Sustain phase will self regulate by the number of miners falling to a level that makes it generate a small profit for them. This would be no problem for the coin's primary function of being used as a currency, except for that fact that the resulting low network hashrate could make the coin vulnerable to a 51% attack.



The problem is you need more than 2 months to get a coin out there being used as a currency. As miners are the primary advocates of any coin then most of them leaving the coin would be a disaster.
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April 09, 2014, 11:56:05 AM
 #4396

funny how everyones panicking  now that all alts are in the toilet. I swear some of you dont have the constitution for this unless is continually on the up and up. I'm just enjoying the train ride, in the coming months the weak will be separated from the chaf. I'm holding my HVC like a boss!
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April 09, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 12:31:23 PM by cayars
 #4397

The coin was sold as using Kimoto Gravity Well but this was also quickly replaced by Temporal Retargeting which is a "home-brew" different way of adjusting difficulty on the fly.

That's not true.  We never used Kimoto Gravity Well.  We innovated Temporal Retargeting from the start.  This is visible on the forums going all the way back to the PRE-ANN, but also in the source code.

Am I wrong on anything I've said that has any substance?

Carlo

You need to check your facts and read a bit more.

Sorry for the bad info on KGW which was from the link I already posted. http://blog.gryfencryp.to/2014/03/19/heavycoin-hvc-democratic-cpu-coin/
So I did get that wrong by copying what someone else had wrote an article on. You should contact the author to get them to fix this article. My bad for that.  But do you have any info can share with us to show TR has has been well tested before being implemented and doesn't have the same type of flaws like time warp, etc?  While I personally would like to read about it. It's not that important compared to what I write below that I would really like your take on.

The bigger problem I see is that once out of limit phase which is 56 days, there is no reason left to mine this coin as the diff level is "beyond" through the roof.  The coin itself is dead at

Except there's a 5 to 38+ year sustain phase.  This is documented here: http://heavycoin.github.io/about.html#decentralised-voting

Did you bother reading anything before posting?

Heavycoin is being mined so intensely because it's a solid coin with unique innovations and developer support.

The code has been working very well without issues.  Heavycoin's unique retargeting algorithm is also working extremely well with no hard-forks, unlike so many copy and paste coins.

Long-term Heavycoin will continue to flourish.  Even at 8 HVC per block in the sustain phase, that's 40 HVC per 10 min, which is pretty good for a relatively small money supply.

According to website sustain phase has 10,000,576 coins that will be issued in the time span of 4.7 years to 38+ years (depending on votes).
10000576/4.7 years = 2,127,782.12 coins per year / 365 = 5829.54 coins per day / 24 hours = 242.89 coins per hour / 30 = 8.09 coins per block. Rounded down to 8 coins per block.  I already had this information in an earlier post which I find alarming.    THIS IS THE BEST CASE based on short vote count.  Long vote count could make it 1 HVC per block reward. Reality will have it come in around the middle and will pay 4 or 5 HVC per block.

But even assuming straight low votes and we end up at only 4.7 years for sustain phase.  WHO IS GOING TO MINE THIS?  This coin will go from 550 (give or take) HVC per block to 5 HVC per block (give or take).

That's over a hundred fold decrease in mining profit overnight.  The coin commits suicide IMHO as soon as that happens.

I'm not a hater, but don't see a bright future or any future for that matter for HVC at current without a core change to fix this major problem as I see it.

keccak512, I'm really trying to hold back even though it probably sounds like I'm being really rough or bashing on your guys.  I just see flaws or missing information on most of the implementation or ideas behind the coin.

Could you please do us all a favor and put a timeline together showing what the math looks like with current voting patters for the rest of mint, what limit will look like and then what sustain will look like.  And then do the same with a vote count half what it presently is and one at 50% higher vote count.  This will lay out a good foundation for people to understand that aren't following the math.

How do you plan on addressing what I called the "suicide" phase?  Is there anything in place, in discussion to fix this or do you really think people will continue to mine HVC at less then 10 coins per block?  What will happen if the hash rate drops to 1/100th or 1/1000th of what it presently is, due to people moving on to mine other more profitable coins?

Carlo (starting to feel like the Grim Reaper of HVC news) Sad

PS there were 5 or 6 other posts since I started typing this and I see people are now getting what I'm saying and are already picking up on some of the problems I alluded to like 51% attack.

Yes, BTC is down and so are other alt coins.  Really doesn't play into my thoughts much at all about this coins implementation.  Really all that does is change the line of profitability a bit as I pointed out in the first "doom/gloom" message written yesterday where the 4 rig AMD is making less than 30 cents a day right now.  But will that same person continue to pay $2.75 in electric costs per day to earn back 5 HVC per block?
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April 09, 2014, 12:07:50 PM
 #4398

hello keccak512 nomisugi
u have 170 btc yet u dont update the coin with the openssl fix
i am disappointed hard
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April 09, 2014, 12:24:33 PM
 #4399

funny how everyones panicking  now that all alts are in the toilet. I swear some of you dont have the constitution for this unless is continually on the up and up. I'm just enjoying the train ride, in the coming months the weak will be separated from the chaf. I'm holding my HVC like a boss!

It's not a matter of panicking cause coins are in the toilet right now.  That's a cycle that will rebound in time. I think many people planned on holding HVC until that time when we have a rebound.  However, the coin has to be around, doing well and thriving to get a good return on your mining investment and HVC you have been holding.

Hence my posts.  There is time to fix some of the issues I've described if they get recognized for what they are (issues needing a fix).  The 3 phases need to get the boot as they just don't work.  The voting is/was a nice concept if implemented better.  This could still be useful but the block rewards can't be allowed to just substantially drop at any given time. It needs to gently/smoothly adjust over a proper period to allow the coin to build value. To stay minable, the coins needs to grow in value to offset the ever lowering block reward.  It's a trade off.

Trying to make a change like this now, would be a mess, but would/could allow it to survive. Otherwise it's dead shortly IMHO.

Carlo
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April 09, 2014, 12:46:21 PM
Last edit: April 09, 2014, 12:56:38 PM by jakiman
 #4400

But even assuming straight low votes and we end up at only 4.7 years for sustain phase.  WHO IS GOING TO MINE THIS?  This coin will go from 550 (give or take) HVC per block to 5 HVC per block (give or take). That's over a hundred fold decrease in mining profit overnight.  The coin commits suicide IMHO as soon as that happens.

Umm, you do realize that people aren't just going to sit around and keep selling at the low price when they know that it will suddenly become 50-100 times harder to mine? Price isn't going to stay the same as now and then BAM! instantly it becomes 5 coins per day instead of 500 coins per day of mining. That will NOT happen unless everyone is dumb. Early adopters won't just dump the coin at the current super low price. Also the new miners or buyers won't even be able to dream of buying it at the current low price. Also, it's not going to be an instantaneous overnight change like you say anyways to the people who are mining & trading.

Quote
I'm not a hater, but don't see a bright future or any future for that matter for HVC at current without a core change to fix this major problem as I see it.

You see a major problem. But many others do not. So who is right? Still you?
There are about 100 coins out there which I do not see a bright future for.
Heck, I don't even know if Bitcoin or Litecoin has a bright future. I wish I knew...

Quote
Yes, BTC is down and so are other alt coins.  Really doesn't play into my thoughts much at all about this coins implementation.  Really all that does is change the line of profitability a bit as I pointed out in the first "doom/gloom" message written yesterday where the 4 rig AMD is making less than 30 cents a day right now.  But will that same person continue to pay $2.75 in electric costs per day to earn back 5 HVC per block?

There you go again. 4 card 280x rig currently mines about 200 Heavycoins right now. You are "assuming" that price will remain the same.
When the time gets closer to the sustain phase, you won't be able to buy 200 HVC for $2.75. Or do you know for sure that you will be?
Once you accept that you have no clue about the future, then you will understand that what you are saying is ALL speculation.

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