[ANN] [HVC] Heavycoin - Ultra-secure, Decentralized Block Reward Voting, Fast

[cayars]

Mumbly,

A week can seem a little long in Crypto world but it allows for lots of clues.  If you plan on running a few of these (I liked it) then you could try different formats.

Example, 3 days with say 10 clues.  After the first clue the rest could come at "random" times. Could be 6 in the first day, 3 in the 2nd and 1 last day, ect

Makes people have to check the forum often.

If you do longer days then maybe allowing one vote per day is good.  If only 3 days then keep it one total vote only.

Could also just take top 3 votes for places 1 to 3 and then start another after that. Could just do 3K, 2K, 1K as prizes, etc...

All kinds of ways to do it.  Try experimenting a bit.

Concerning Limit phase:
56 days * 24 hours * 30 (blocks per hour) = 40,320 blocks but website http://heavycoin.github.io/about.html#decentralised-voting says 63,476 blocks.  If that page is changed to 40,320 it all makes sense.
However, would be a very good idea to match the website up to what the code is doing.

Doesn't matter one way or the other but would be good to have it clarified so the math works.

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[p1nky]

I had a look at the source code a bit.

First of all the mint phase apparently is not 45,000,000 coins as the site says but 53,000,000. This is what the wallet says as "Next" and what the source code says also

static const int64 PHASE1_MONEY = 53000000; // 45,000,000 (min 30D, max 171Y)
static const int64 PHASE2_BLOCKS = 63476 - nBlockRewardVoteSpan - 1; // 44D (min 0, max 64,948,224)

The limit phase seems to be defined in blocks, calculated from the block height of phase 1 + PHASE2_BLOCKS (as the upper block height limit for the limit phase).

So to me it seems this 1024 voting madness will continue to go on for more than 100 days (around 20 days left to reach 53m coins and then more than 80 days until we're at the last 3600 blocks of limit phase).
This also means more than 50m additional coins will be generated before the voting is limited to 8

IMHO something must be done in the code or the coin will be dead before the voting limit kicks in.

If the minting phase money supply apparently has been changed from the original 45m to 53m then certainly it must be possible to change this back to the 45m it was supposed to be in the first place, and also to make additional steps for the limit phase.

I suggest going back to the original communicated 56 days limit phase = 8 weeks = 40,320 blocks and drop the voting limit by 128 every week (5,040 blocks):
week 1   896
week 2   768
week 3   640
week 4   512
week 5   384
week 6   256
week 7   128
week 8   8

IMHO the coin can't survive 100 more days of 1024 voting, and then suddenly dropping to 8.
Also this reflects the spirit of what was in mind for the limit phase, having a graduation phase into the sustain phase.

The same as markets also a democracy needs regulations and adjustments, it doesn't mean the end of democracy.
We need a democracy, not a demo-crazy.

[mumbly]

@cayars - all good ideas man, I'll take them on board. I agree changing the frequency of clues and playing with different time periods will help me figure out the best format, and will keep everyone on their toes a little.

I don't have anything to add to the conversation about the coin phases for now, but I'm following with interest.

Cheers,
M

[p1nky]

I don't have anything to add to the conversation about the coin phases for now, but I'm following with interest.

Well can you check with the developer why the website and also the comment in the code says 45m coins for mint phase but the actual the code says 53m please?
And why the site says 56 days for limit phase, when actually according to the number of blocks for the limit phase it's more than 88?

We really need to go into limit phase soon as it was originally intended and the limit phase really needs to limit the number of new coins in some way, and not keep things as they are up until to the last 5 days of the limit phase.

[HVC_Comps]

Ok - final clue!

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This site is located within the continent of Africa

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Thanks to everyone who has taken part so far - this competition will close 1pm, 26 May, Bitcointalk server time

I hope you guys have enjoyed this comp, as cayars has done above, any feedback is very welcome.

I'll be hosting the next one, but after that I thought it would be fun to get some guest hosts for these competitions. I'm still figuring out the logistics, but if you're interested in hosting one of these comps, PM me.

Cheers,
M

[cayars]

I was just going to go hunting through the source but guess I don't need to now as p1nky has already done it.

This is not good, but not the end of the world either. Let's assume there is no code change.

We would end up with 53,000,000 coins during mint.
Limit phase 63,476 blocks * 687 (need to double check average vote) = 43,608,012 coins
96,608,012 total coins from mint and limit phase. Sustain has 10,000,576 coins
106,608,588 total coins

Sustain should not change and would have a max of 8 coins per block.

So assuming you read the source code correct and my average vote of 687 is correct above we just got some "instant inflation".

We gained 8,000,000 coins during Mint Phase

63,476 blocks - 40,320 (56 days of blocks) = 23,156 extra blocks in Limit Phase
23,156 * 687 = 15,908,172 extra Limit Phase Coins

Total Inflation of 23,908,172 coins never anticipated until today's conversation (assuming all math is correct).
That's a sizable amount of the total coins.

Could somebody do a double/triple check of the math above?

[mumbly]

I don't have anything to add to the conversation about the coin phases for now, but I'm following with interest.

Well can you check with the developer why the website and also the comment in the code says 45m coins for mint phase but the actual the code says 53m please?
And why the site says 56 days for limit phase, when actually according to the number of blocks for the limit phase it's more than 88?

We really need to go into limit phase soon as it was originally intended and the limit phase really needs to limit the number of new coins in some way, and not keep things as they are up until to the last 5 days of the limit phase.

Hey man,

For sure, that's already the next thing on my to-do list.

I don't like to post when I ask the devs on the side to take a look at a post. I think I've done this once and Keccak had already responded by the time I sent him a message.

They are watching the forum, so I'm more a fail safe then the person to tell them when there's a conversation where we could use their input.

Cheers,
M

[p1nky]

But it's another 23m coins on top of a coin that has far too much inflation already.

And it most probably means another 100+ days of the coin getting devalued more and more with transaction volumes of 1/3,000th of DarkCoin and others. I'm sorry, I have been mining HVC since the start and holding them still, but I don't see the coin surving 100+ more days of what has been going on in the last few weeks.

I know a few ppl investing in HVC lately in expectation of this 1024 vote thing ending soon and I don't see this ending well if over the next 3 months we're gonna see another 50+m coins dumped onto the market.
That's more coins generated over the next 3 months than have been minted so far since the beginning, and the coin is already in an almost coma like state!

Actually there are people voting 1024 currently in order to get over the minting phase as soon as possible. But as it looks this minting phase de facto will go on for 100+ more days, no matter what they do. And I don't see this raising confidence in the coin.

Therefore it is my strong believe that actions from the developer have to take place to save this coin and turn it around and make the limit phase an actual limit phase and not keep the limit phase a renamed minting phase for all but the last 5 days.

[cayars]

There's an upside if you are a miner.

The IPO just got smaller. 

[incin]

The 8 million difference is the IPO/Premine is it not? See original pre-ann...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470391.0

[cayars]

The 8 million difference is the IPO/Premine is it not?

The IPO/Premine was 8,000,000 coins total. Hmmm,  need to check that.

But still doesn't address the limit phase block difference.

[incin]

The 8 million difference is the IPO/Premine is it not?

The IPO/Premine was 8,000,000 coins total. Hmmm,  need to check that.

But still doesn't address the limit phase block difference.

Yeah, with 45 mil in the Mint phase and just over 10 mil in the sustain phase and a minimum supply of 63 mil (if 0 vote through limit phase) leaves 8 mil for IPO/Bounties/Developement ect. I am also curious as to the block count issue brought up as that doesn't add up.

IPO/Premine (Fixed) = 8,000,000
Mint (Fixed) = 45,000,000
Limit (max vote) = ( 59,876 * 1024 ) + ( 3600 * 8 ) = ( 61,313,024 + 28800 ) = 61,341,824
Sustain (Fixed) = 10,000,576

Max Total Supply = 124,342,400

For limit phase either....
block count is off,
the days are off,
or the block time is off.

Based on 56 days with 2 min block time...
3600 * 8 = 28,800
36720 * 1024 = 37,601,280
Total Limit = 37,630,080
Total Supply = 100,630,656

[cayars]

I don't think the vote count during the last 3600 blocks of Limit phase have any affect on that phase at all but is used to "setup" the sustain phase.

[cayars]

static const int64 PHASE1_MONEY = 53000000; // 45,000,000 (min 30D, max 171Y)
static const int64 PHASE2_BLOCKS = 63476 - nBlockRewardVoteSpan - 1; // 44D (min 0, max 64,948,224)

Just curious, but what is nBlockRewardVoteSpan set to any ideas?
If it happens to be 23,155 then that would be correct.

[incin]

Ok i'll leave this to the code crackers. All i can do is continue to vote 0 at zhpool. 

[cayars]

Ok i'll leave this to the code crackers. All i can do is continue to vote 0 at zhpool. 

Yea we really just need keccek512 to give us a quick post explaining it.

[auctioneeeeer]

Repost

@keccak512

Is there any chance DarkSend or CryptoNote could be implemented in Heavycoin?  

If Yes...  you need to drop this to the crypto community QUICK!!!  

...just let us know so that we pull our 0.0001 HVC/BTC Asks first...

^^ this

[TheRealSteve]

Pool hash rates and miners

pool	rate (Mh/s)*	delta***	% of network	miners**	rate/miner	fee (%)	payout
http://hvc.1gh.com/	12,183.00	1,255.99	60.68			1	RBPPS
http://heavycoin.zhpool.com/	7,798.20	1,060.90	38.84	140.9	55.35	1	PPLNS
http://heavycoin.miningpoolhub.com/	82.49	-34.84	0.41	2.9	28.44	1	PROP
http://hvc.nonce-pool.com/	12.93	-1.27	0.06	7.4	38.4	1	PPLNS
total	20,076.62	2,280.78	99.99

* due to rate variability displayed through pool statistics pages, rates are based on average of 10 samples over the past hour
** miner count for 1gh unavailable
*** Delta since last update

Block Progression and Pool Luck

last 24h 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub hash avg 11,613.42 45.15 7,621.82 72.16 blocks 561 2 350 1 hash % 60.01 0.23 39.38 0.37 blocks % 61.38 0.22 38.29 0.11 luck % 102.30 93.80 97.20 29.30

| | | | | | | |

last 7d 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub hash avg 10,442.03 30.48 9,385.97 483.17 blocks 2,940 6 2,380 76 hash % 51.33 0.15 46.14 2.38 blocks % 54.42 0.11 44.06 1.41 luck % 106.02 74.13 95.48 59.23

1gh Top stats

Top 100 Mhash/s | Top 10 Mhash/s Total: 12,278.20 | Total: 6,782.07 Mean rate: 122.78 | Mean rate: 678.21 Median rate: 37.40 | Median rate: 721.21 Mode(10) rate: 0 | Mode(100) rate: 200 % of pool: 100.8% | % of pool: 55.7% % of network: 61.2% | % of network: 33.8%

Pool voting

Mining (indicative, not authoritative!)

payoff per Mhash/s / day ideal solo 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub HVC 27.35624 27.36 19.13 24.64 15.28 mBTC 0.12283 0.12 0.09 0.11 0.07 USD 0.06449 0.06 0.05 0.06 0.04 pool take/day 1gh nonce zhpool poolhub HVC 2,885.40 5.89 2,335.80 74.59 BTC 0.01 0.00 0.01 0.00 USD 6.80 0.01 5.51 0.18

Based on last 7 days performance and... block reward: HVC687 | mBTC/HVC: 0.00449 | USD/BTC: $525

Like these Stats Posts? Donate HeavyCoin: HTQUFnH79dorHhfJATgLDUAwNpQ2Xa9LLb

[keccak512]

static const int64 PHASE1_MONEY = 53000000; // 45,000,000 (min 30D, max 171Y)
static const int64 PHASE2_BLOCKS = 63476 - nBlockRewardVoteSpan - 1; // 44D (min 0, max 64,948,224)

Just curious, but what is nBlockRewardVoteSpan set to any ideas?
If it happens to be 23,155 then that would be correct.

Code:

main.cpp:1182:        nBlockRewardVoteSpan = 3600; // Tally votes every 5 days

[keccak512]

The 8 million difference is the IPO/Premine is it not?

The IPO/Premine was 8,000,000 coins total. Hmmm,  need to check that.

But still doesn't address the limit phase block difference.

Yeah, with 45 mil in the Mint phase and just over 10 mil in the sustain phase and a minimum supply of 63 mil (if 0 vote through limit phase) leaves 8 mil for IPO/Bounties/Developement ect. I am also curious as to the block count issue brought up as that doesn't add up.

IPO/Premine (Fixed) = 8,000,000
Mint (Fixed) = 45,000,000
Limit (max vote) = ( 59,876 * 1024 ) + ( 3600 * 8 ) = ( 61,313,024 + 28800 ) = 61,341,824
Sustain (Fixed) = 10,000,576

Max Total Supply = 124,342,400

For limit phase either....
block count is off,
the days are off,
or the block time is off.

Based on 56 days with 2 min block time...
3600 * 8 = 28,800
36720 * 1024 = 37,601,280
Total Limit = 37,630,080
Total Supply = 100,630,656

The equation you are looking for

Code:

main.h:62:static const int64 MAX_MONEY = (PHASE1_MONEY + PHASE2_BLOCKS*MAX_VOTE + (nBlockRewardVoteSpan + 1)*MAX_VOTE + PHASE3_MONEY) * COIN;

Missing from your calculations is (nBlockRewardVoteSpan + 1)*MAX_VOTE
A special voting interval needed to make sure the block reward decreases from 1024 down to 8 before the sustain phase starts; otherwise you could start the sustain phase with 1024 block reward, which would be bad...

you gets

Code:

MAX_MONEY = 53000000 + (63476 - 3600 - 1)*1024 + 3601*1024 + 10000000 + 576 = 128,000,000

This has been on the "About" page from day one: https://heavycoin.github.io/about.html#decentralised-voting

The second phase (Limit) allows a maximum vote of 1024 HVC for the first 59,876 blocks, but 8 HVC for the last ~3,600 blocks so it can transition into to the last phase (Sustain).