Healthcare in the US is a disaster! Warning: Rant

[suchmoon]

As a side note, is this why US residents are so averse to socialized healthcare? Do they honestly believe the price of insulin is $1000 a month? Or that it costs $40,000 to give birth or have a joint replaced? Or that a cancer treatment costs $300,000-$1,000,000. I always figured people realized they were being monumentally ripped off. But I suppose if they honestly believe those are the prices, and they believed that their taxes would have to go up even more so the government could spend even more of its GDP to cover a socialized plan, it would explain why they are so against it. It's completely wrong, but it's a possible explanation.

Most people don't have the slightest clue about pricing, which BTW isn't quite as simple as $1000 or $40k. Providers (of which there will be numerous ones even for a simple 2-day hospital stay without complications - doctors, nurses, room, drugs, food, even the fucking TV in the room is billed separately) bill you $40k, insurance "negotiates" down to $14570, you pay $1750 deductible plus 30% above that up to your individual out-of-pocket maximum of $5600 but not exceeding your family OOP of $8700 and also depending on other expenses your family had that year (numbers vary depending on your plan), some of which you might be able to deduct on your tax return. So how much does it cost to give birth?

And that's relatively simple compared to pre-Obamacare shit that had pre-existing condition exclusions (pregnancy was obviously one of those) and lifetime maximums and other BS.

But the biggest perceived issue seems to be the fear of "rationing" that many associate with "socialism", despite there being no rationing in Medicare or VA or other government healthcare programs.

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[o_e_l_e_o]

Most people don't have the slightest clue about pricing

Can you blame them when it's that complicated? Here's the pricing in most developed countries: Every treatment/prescription/surgery/therapy/consultation: $0.

pre-existing condition exclusions (pregnancy was obviously one of those)

Lol. Just lol.

[suchmoon]

Here's the pricing in most developed countries: Every treatment/prescription/surgery/therapy/consultation: $0.

Filthy communists.

pre-existing condition exclusions (pregnancy was obviously one of those)

Lol. Just lol.

BTW women pre-Obamacare also used to have higher health insurance premiums, because apparently men have nothing to do with childbirth whatsoever. If that's not proof of immaculate conception I don't know what is.

[sirazimuth]

I'm now close to retirement and thankfully still have my health.
But speaking as a British ex-pat and holding both a US and UK passport,(and a UK  National Health#... akin to a US ss#)
if  there was any reason for me to move back to my  "home" country to maybe retire,
it would most certainly have something to do the ridiculous state of health care in this country (ie... the USA).

[Spendulus]

Here's the pricing in most developed countries: Every treatment/prescription/surgery/therapy/consultation: $0.

Filthy communists.

pre-existing condition exclusions (pregnancy was obviously one of those)

Lol. Just lol.

BTW women pre-Obamacare also used to have higher health insurance premiums, because apparently men have nothing to do with childbirth whatsoever. If that's not proof of immaculate conception I don't know what is.

You might want it cheap, or you might want it equally priced. Any experienced actuary can develop tables of what you will get for x number of dollars input under any such premises.

But when the controlling factor is industry lobbyists, a good deal you will not get.

[Flying Hellfish]

But when the controlling factor is industry lobbyists, a good deal you will not get.

Not sure if you meant it this way or not but this is literally why the rest of the developed world has legislated the private sector and lobbyist out of healthcare as much as possible.  Ironically enough the commies that do this spend WAY less tax dollars while providing WAY better healthcare for it's citizens.  As long as the corporations can continue to trick stupid people into believing any government intervention will end up in a communist state in 3 years Americans will continue to die earlier and spend more public money on healthcare than the rest of the developed world!

The corporations purposely conflate socialized healthcare with government making your pants and cars etc and uneducated or down right stupid people eat it up like a fat kid eats cake.

I can assure you that living in a country that has socialized healthcare does not lead to the government making my jeans and phones, but it does have one side affect, my family never has to worry about declaring bankruptcy from a medical condition or not seeing a doctor because we don't have insurance and can't afford it.

[Spendulus]

But when the controlling factor is industry lobbyists, a good deal you will not get.

Not sure if you meant it this way or not but this is literally why the rest of the developed world has legislated the private sector and lobbyist out of healthcare as much as possible. ....

Fuck your snotty know it all talk, I'm telling you what would happen in the USA.

[suchmoon]

But when the controlling factor is industry lobbyists, a good deal you will not get.

Not sure if you meant it this way or not but this is literally why the rest of the developed world has legislated the private sector and lobbyist out of healthcare as much as possible. ....

Fuck your snotty know it all talk, I'm telling you what would happen in the USA.

Good old "thoughts and prayers, nothing can be done" method

I think there is a couple of ways this can work out. Either the youngsters will vote the dinosaurs out instead of just whining on the intertubes, or the federal government will cannibalize itself with tax cuts so states will say "fuck it" and implement proper healthcare on their own.

[sirazimuth]

But when the controlling factor is industry lobbyists, a good deal you will not get.

Not sure if you meant it this way or not but this is literally why the rest of the developed world has legislated the private sector and lobbyist out of healthcare as much as possible. ....

Fuck your snotty know it all talk, I'm telling you what would happen in the USA.

Good old "thoughts and prayers, nothing can be done" method

I think there is a couple of ways this can work out. Either the youngsters will vote the dinosaurs out instead of just whining on the intertubes, or the federal government will cannibalize itself with tax cuts so states will say "fuck it" and implement proper healthcare on their own.

Well I was gonna comment but I don't want to be a snotty know it all....

[Flying Hellfish]

so states will say "fuck it" and implement proper healthcare on their own.

California, Texas, Florida etc could go it alone but states like Vermont, Wyoming, the Dakota's etc would probably need federal assistance to make it work.

It might be interesting to see California create a state run healthcare system.  All the smaller states could be shown how it works at home and in a couple dozens years might figure out what the rest of the world figured out decades ago!

[suchmoon]

so states will say "fuck it" and implement proper healthcare on their own.

California, Texas, Florida etc could go it alone but states like Vermont, Wyoming, the Dakota's etc would probably need federal assistance to make it work.

It might be interesting to see California create a state run healthcare system.  All the smaller states could be shown how it works at home and in a couple dozens years might figure out what the rest of the world figured out decades ago!

I don't see a problem for Vermont, there are tiny countries in Europe doing it reasonably well. In the US itself most insurance groups are smaller than the smallest state. And Wyoming doesn't want communism anyway so who cares

Another side of this whole healthcare bullshit that rarely gets mentioned is how it hurts businesses, particularly small ones. Healthcare is expected to be a "benefit" provided by the employer. Which is obviously not free and it costs the employers and by extension the employees those 18% of the GDP.

Large employers have a huge advantage as they can spread the risk over a large pool, much like a state-run system would but with fewer elderly and disabled and other "expensive" individuals. Midsize employers are still ok-ish until one person gets cancer, which could double the costs for a 1000-employee business (unless the person dies quickly). And small businesses are utterly fucked. Even if by law they're not required to provide insurance (below 50 employees IIRC) - that still means they can't compete with big businesses in the hiring process.

It also makes businesses less competitive in the global market, stifles freelancing (domestically and globally), and discourages anyone over the age of 50 and/or not in 100% perfect health from entrepreneurship. That can't be good in the long run.

[Spendulus]

so states will say "fuck it" and implement proper healthcare on their own.

California, Texas, Florida etc could go it alone but states like Vermont, Wyoming, the Dakota's etc would probably need federal assistance to make it work.

It might be interesting to see California create a state run healthcare system.  All the smaller states could be shown how it works at home and in a couple dozens years might figure out what the rest of the world figured out decades ago!

Admit ignorance, you don't know anything about CA's state run healthcare.

Smaller states need to band together, sure....it's the REPUBLICANS THAT HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT, and it's your Democrat friends that have at every chance, stopped or stalled availablility of healthcare plans "across state lines."

Why? Because of the influence of health care lobbyists on their agendas.

The health care lobby is strictly for higher cash flow and profits, it doesn't care what you call the plans.