The situation with IRAN

[Linkkoin]

Disclaimer:
As a resident of Iran, I'm obviously biased toward my nation, the people who I personally know and well, mostly love.

Is it true that the price of BTC is much higher in Iran than elsewhere?

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[aliashraf]

Disclaimer:
As a resident of Iran, I'm obviously biased toward my nation, the people who I personally know and well, mostly love.

Is it true that the price of BTC is much higher in Iran than elsewhere?

Nop. Rial has suffered but we trade bitcoin by its usd price as it is reported by Binance and others, then it translates to Rial using free market Rial/USD fee.

[jacafbiz]

Personally I don't like mixing politics with Crypto especially Bitcoin,  but I think Iranians people too need to look at the mirror and ask themselves some fundamental questions, this issue is not peculiar with Iran alone becaause there are some people behind the scene benefiting greatly from this, I am talking about Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Argentina and some of these countries in dire financial mess. For me you can only help yourselves thanks God for internet that has made information this readily available prepare for your future and that of your children because some people I talked to about BTC still believe it to be a scam

[franky1]

what id love to see as a code solution to de-tag bitcoin from the PEOPLES vision of $america control

imagine exchanges(local decentralised) all agreed to stop measuring bitcoin in $ and instead measure it as
minimum wage hours

imagine right now all exchanges measure bitcoin as being 533 hours
just that 533 hours
and exchange move up or down in minute or seconds (not cents)

now people using the Rial can convert that to what their minimum wage per hour is to get a rial value

.. heres the international revolution part.
in america it would cost americans $4000
in iran it would cost iranians r882

meaning where-ever you ar in the world it only costs you 533 of your local hard labour employment to get 1btc
instead of having to work 2415 hours due to converting dollar to rial to get 1btc

benfits: labour equality world wide
detags peoples perception that $$ rule
people can then arbitrage the forex markets and flood forex with dollars as they buy rial to get cheap coins so that $/r imbalance occurs and brings the rial inline with $.. lifting iran out of 'poverty'

[Jackolantern]

I have read about the situation with IRAN for several times and there are still some things. I hope that everything will be fine! I am not an expert but to my mind the situation will stabilize

[aliashraf]

franky,

I have  a point: AML/KYC discourse is weakening bitcoin and my nation at the same time and there are potentials for the two to become allies. For this to work, both sides have obligations? Yes! Iranians should adopt bitcoin and bitcoin should improve in terms of privacy and decentralization.

Any objections franky?

bitcoin has privacy
  show me a command/line of code that asks for your name and house location
  show me on the blockchain anyones name/house address

Bitcoin is pseudonymous, you are not exposed but you are traceable. US surveillance agencies have to spend their ridiculously high budgets somehow and tracking bitcoin transactions mixed with imposing kyc on centralized exchanges gives them everything they want plus a stupid selfie of the victim who is holding his id and smiles like fools  

To guarantee their seizure, SEC recently pressed charges against Zachary Coburn because he is the developer of Etherdelta, a decentralized exchange!  and here I come to another issue that should be fixed: bitcoin devs are too exposed, they are not eligible for developing useful stuff
related to privacy and decentralization because of this, not being anonymous and being vulnerable to prosecution.

bitcoin the currency is decentralised.
  show me a command that says do not relay/confirm transactions intended for iran/china/korea or anywhere.
  show me a command that says only transact with americans

I have been discussing pooling pressure flaw in bitcoin and the situation with pools for a while, we need serious commitment by devs to fix it, what we are not observing any signal from them about.

With pools, speaking of decentralization is void, Trump is crazy enough to make a deal with Chinese for blacklisting specific addresses/nodes/... and dictating it to pool operators within a week.

Bottom line:
We need to get rid of pools and centralized exchanges and to implement stronger privacy features in bitcoin.
Such an agenda needs a lot of commitment from devs (true anonymous ones) and the community (true insightful members). Shut the F**up and join franky  

God forbid me, but I feel so bad when important posts happen to fall at the bottom of the page (with default settings) and get little chance to be on the latest page because of scrolling. So, I did it, I quoted my own post and I'm sorry, not a common practice for me, I promise.

[greg458]

I am very curious. I know that the Iranian government has always implemented the external website filtering policy for the domestic Internet, and this year the Iranian government has blocked VPN access, so how did you come here?
If you think your government is right, why are you using VPN?

[franky1]

Bitcoin is pseudonymous, you are not exposed but you are traceable. US surveillance agencies have to spend their ridiculously high budgets somehow and tracking bitcoin transactions mixed with imposing kyc on centralized exchanges gives them everything they want plus a stupid selfie of the victim who is holding his id and smiles like fools  

To guarantee their seizure, SEC recently pressed charges against Zachary Coburn because he is the developer of Etherdelta, a decentralized exchange!  and here I come to another issue that should be fixed: bitcoin devs are too exposed, they are not eligible for developing useful stuff
related to privacy and decentralization because of this, not being anonymous and being vulnerable to prosecution.

again you are addressing businesses "imposing KYC on centralised exchanges"
if you dont use it. dont make a stupid selfie.. they wont find your details on a businesses website

again you are addressing businesses
you also argue about needing decentralised exchanges. then quote a media story about decentralised exchange getting hit
again if you dont put coins into etherdelta. you wont get anything seized

bitcoin code cannot stop businesses. cannot stop government from reading kyc details held by businesses. so th solution si to just stop using businesses that do it.

if everyone found a local meetup and traded coins in a coffee shop. the blockchain wont show any details of the coffee shop
you can buy btc with rial with someone else while you sip on a coffee..

then you just trade bitcoin internationally without your identity being revealed.. oh and no stupid selfies will be found.
the recipient then just finds someone in his area and trades bitcoin he gets back to his fiat. without trace shown on the blockchain.

its simple. stop using regulated businesses.
if you really need code to prevent your details from being listed in a KYC's business.. simple
{
ShowMessage("dont use that business.");
}

its the beer bottle argument
if you want to drink beer during prohibition. make your own moonshine beer and drink it wherever you like. just dont go to a bar/pub and ask for a beer

the point you keep missing hense me repeating
code cannot stop you making a selfie and stop you typing your name into a KYC'd srvice.. only you can stop yourself.
if a service has a selfie of you and your details. its because you provided that information to that service.

if you cannot stop yourself from using a KYC service. you might want to take a step back from the keyboard and stop typing your name and address into services

[franky1]

the funny thing about laws is. laws are paper

the law itself is meaningless. its about people
officers looking and arresting.
customers giving out information to a business for an officer to find.

lets take the U.S gun law.
the law says no fully automatic gun with a certain grip should be permitted.
people didn sit on their hands for years crying that laws should change.

the simply changed the grip on the gun.. now the law doesnt apply to people using fully automatic weapons

if you dont like a law.. as a person.. AVOID IT. work around the problem
bank related activity:
dont use banks. form your own credit union.
set up a bartab get people to trade bitcoin using banknotes for btc
work for cash in hand
i can think of hundreds of solutions.

but sitting at a computer mentioning the problem is just about highlighting the problem
if you want a solution then solutions have been presented to you

if you want a revolution. start one.
code cant start a revolution. its just code

[aliashraf]

if you want a revolution. start one.
code cant start a revolution. its just code

So wrong!

It is classic:

  link=https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/4/#selection-29.0-47.6
>Lengthy exposition of vulnerability of a systm to use-of-force
>monopolies ellided.
>
>You will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography.

Yes, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Satoshi

It is known as the Axiom of Resistance:

link= https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin/wiki/Axiom-of-Resistance
In other words there is an assumption that it is possible for a system to resist state control. This is not accepted as a fact but deemed to be a reasonable assumption, due to the behavior of similar systems, on which to base the system.

One who does not accept the axiom of resistance is contemplating an entirely different system than Bitcoin. If one assumes it is not possible for a system to resist state controls, conclusions do not make sense in the context of Bitcoin; just as conclusions in spherical geometry contradict Euclidean.

[franky1]

what you are quoting is not code doing the work
its people

code cannot hand deliver weapons through the postal system. people do. businesses do
if DHL suddenly stops delivering guns to peoples homes. code cannot mandate that people stop using DHL people choose to stop using DHL
people would then choose to use the amazon logistics similar to uber(for parcels) again. people

so if you want to circumvent weapons policies people need to act.

[aliashraf]

what you are quoting is not code doing the work
its people

code cannot hand deliver weapons through the postal system. people do. businesses do
if DHL suddenly stops delivering guns to peoples homes. code cannot mandate that people stop using DHL people choose to stop using DHL
people would then choose to use the amazon logistics similar to uber(for parcels) again. people

so if you want to circumvent weapons policies people need to act.

Code is supposed to be supportive, isn't it?

Bitcoin should improve even more to cope with the new centralization threats led by crazy right wing populists who want the whole power in their dirty hands.

I have clearly defined what I mean by improvements:

To guarantee their seizure, SEC recently pressed charges against Zachary Coburn because he is the developer of Etherdelta, a decentralized exchange!  and here I come to another issue that should be fixed: bitcoin devs are too exposed, they are not eligible for developing useful stuff
related to privacy and decentralization because of this, not being anonymous and being vulnerable to prosecution.
...

We need to get rid of pools and centralized exchanges and to implement stronger privacy features in bitcoin.
Such an agenda needs a lot of commitment from devs (true anonymous ones) and the community (true insightful members).

You got any problems with this franky?

[franky1]

what you are quoting is not code doing the work
its people

code cannot hand deliver weapons through the postal system. people do. businesses do
if DHL suddenly stops delivering guns to peoples homes. code cannot mandate that people stop using DHL people choose to stop using DHL
people would then choose to use the amazon logistics similar to uber(for parcels) again. people

so if you want to circumvent weapons policies people need to act.

Code is supposed to be supportive, isn't it?

Bitcoin should improve even more to cope with the new centralization threats led by crazy right wing populists who want the whole power in their dirty hands.

I have clearly defined what I mean by improvements:

To guarantee their seizure, SEC recently pressed charges against Zachary Coburn because he is the developer of Etherdelta, a decentralized exchange!  and here I come to another issue that should be fixed: bitcoin devs are too exposed, they are not eligible for developing useful stuff
related to privacy and decentralization because of this, not being anonymous and being vulnerable to prosecution.
...

We need to get rid of pools and centralized exchanges and to implement stronger privacy features in bitcoin.
Such an agenda needs a lot of commitment from devs (true anonymous ones) and the community (true insightful members).

You got any problems with this franky?

bitcoins privacy has not changed from 2009-2018
satoshi a person rmained anonymous even while writing hundreds of posts and emails. not due to changing code. but by him as a person not doing something(giving out his real name)

bitcoin does not ask for real names.
its peoples decision to go public. the problem is not bitcoin code its peoples choice to reveal their name
so if you want code (which people will ignore at times)
{
ShowMessage("dont give out real name");
}
but as you can see the code cant enforce people. its people that need to act.
again code cant shut down pools because people will find a work around.
even with PoS instead of PoW people are already syndicating their funds('stake') into pools
agaiin the problems you raise cannot be sorted by getting writing on paper(laws) changed. or keys on keyboard(code)
people need to be the change.

to kill a pool/exchange people just need to stop using such services. and it can only happen if people do things and people change their normal habits

so if you dont like american regulations holding iranians hostage against international trade. stop using businesses linked to american rgulations. then do something local to get your btc and be able to buy things in your local town with btc without the need of american tied services

[aliashraf]

bitcoins privacy has not changed from 2009-2018

But threats have been escalated! So we need change, desperately.

again code cant shut down pools because people will find a work around.
even with PoS instead of PoW people are already syndicating their funds('stake') into pools
agaiin the problems you raise cannot be sorted by getting writing on paper(laws) changed. or keys on keyboard(code)
people need to be the change.
to kill a pool/exchange people just need to stop using such services. and it can only happen if people do things and people change their normal habits

I'm realising that you franky, play dumb once you find it adequate for your arguments. It is really dumb, to think about pools as of people's choice! They are not! Pools are totally inevitable because of bitcoin pooling pressure flaw which I have been discussing it in this forum for a long time and I have proposed a definite solution for it. Briefly speaking, people join pools because they just can't afford the high stake gambling that bitcoin mining is. It is called mining variance and i have dedicated a topic to analyse it.

so if you dont like american regulations holding iranians hostage against international trade. stop using businesses linked to american regulations. then do something local to get your btc and be able to buy things in your local town with btc without the need of american tied services

Now you are back to "american businesses" and "using bitcoin locally in Iran" stuff that I've refuted more than once. So, please stop this nonsense.

[franky1]

bitcoins privacy has not changed from 2009-2018

But threats have been escalated! So we need change, desperately.

what threat.
if you fear your bank freezing your account. take your fiat out
they cant freeze what they dont have.

then with fiat in hand organise a meetup and buy bitcoin hand to hand
there, done, no threat.
now your free from the worry of banks

I'm realising that you franky, play dumb once you find it adequate for your arguments. It is really dumb, to think about pools as of people's choice!

i dont play dumb. what i do is take something that someone over complicates using buzzwords and finger pointing. and i simplify it into simple terms and solutions. not just for your benefit. but all readers,

i dont bother finding simple solutions and then twist them into sounding complicated by giving them buzzwords. though many people in other topics hate it when i use simple terms. so now and again i use other peoples buzzwords just to shut people up arguing offtopic about lack of buzzwords, so that the topic can revert back to simple explanations for ALL readers to understand.

EG your buzzword "axiom" ill call it what it is to common people.... "common sense"

so i am sorry if i dont use your buzz word. but 99% of readers would prefer to read a topic that gets straight from problem to solution. rather than have to deep dive search engines for definitions

if they would rather just talk about the complexities of the problem, so be it i just tell them to go research and deep dive the search engines in their own time

same goes for solutions
instead of over complicating solutions requiring trying to lobby governments to change or lobbying devs to change. i just give out a simple idea for a simple solution any average common person can do. and just leave them to do it.

thats where people think that i should be pushing things. nope. i just untwist complicated FUD, mis understandings and correct it into simple terms. people think i should push for change because i am mentioning the problem.. others think i am trying to force change because i mention a problem/solution. again no.
i just show the simple real understanding all common people can understand and then, if people want to wake up one day and do something that will change something. they can

but its up to them to do it.
code cant change itself and as this topic has shown no matter how much you tell a person to do something they wont. because THEY/YOU need to do it. not rely on others to do it

people/businesses are the problem. if you cant change them. avoid them and find another way.
hense. find the simple solution that solves the issue without you having to bang your head against the wall

so your problem with KYX banking regs and seizing funds. easy dont use a bank. do things locally
so your problem with not being able to buy brad locally with btc. easy locally organise a meet up and plan to help grocer store use bitcoin

[aliashraf]

Today, the US federal agency in charge of Iran sanctions, Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), for the first time in bitcoin history, announced two bitcoin addresses associated to two Iranian individuals subject to secondary sanctions!

link= https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm556

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) took action today against two Iran-based individuals, Ali Khorashadizadeh and Mohammad Ghorbaniyan, who helped exchange digital currency (bitcoin) ransom payments into Iranian rial on behalf of Iranian malicious cyber actors involved with the SamSam ransomware scheme that targeted over 200 known victims.  Also today, OFAC identified two digital currency addresses associated with these two financial facilitators.  Over 7,000 transactions in bitcoin, worth millions of U.S. dollars, have processed through these two addresses - some of which involved SamSam ransomware derived bitcoin. In a related action, the U.S. Department of Justice today indicted two Iranian criminal actors for infecting numerous data networks with SamSam ransomware in the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada since 2015.  

“Treasury is targeting digital currency exchangers who have enabled Iranian cyber actors to profit from extorting digital ransom payments from their victims.  As Iran becomes increasingly isolated and desperate for access to U.S. dollars, it is vital that virtual currency exchanges, peer-to-peer exchangers, and other providers of digital currency services harden their networks against these illicit schemes,” said Treasury Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence Sigal Mandelker.  “We are publishing digital currency addresses to identify illicit actors operating in the digital currency space. Treasury will aggressively pursue Iran and other rogue regimes attempting to exploit digital currencies and weaknesses in cyber and AML/CFT safeguards to further their nefarious objectives.”

Obviously, the two addresses belong to Iranian local bitcoin traders/exchanges that has been transacting bitcoin for years and the accusation of being "involved" in processing ransomware related addresses is just an excuse for weakening bitcoin in Iran by threatening people all around the world.

It is a declaration of war against bitcoin too. The dick heads in Trump administration has no clue about what they are talking about! How in the hell bitcoiners should avoid this two addresses to transact with?

And it is a proof of what I'm saying about the shady zone getting narrower:

I guess, it is no more possible for bitcoiners to live in the gray zone, it is just fading out, the gray zone:

Trump needs even more centralization of power for running his version of Fascism, Putin has already centralized everything in Russia (again) and Chinese have no clue about what a non-centralized form of power could ever be.

In monetary systems, AML/KYC discourse is getting more aggressive on a daily basis, It is about Orwell 1984 rather than Satoshi Nakamoto 2009. The true force behind bitcoin falling down is this trend and the fact that bitcoiners are doing almost nothing about it other than sticking with their few coins and waiting for dick heads in regulatory agencies to show merci and absorb them in the so-called 'legal system'.

As a smart con artist, Craig Faketoshi Wrong has understood the situation and made a decision: "Don't be shy Craig, you've never been, choose the wrong side as usual and figure out a way to keep talking in public."

The rest of bitcoiners? They are just shy!

Just a few days after the above post and they are blacklisting bitcoin addresses and threatening bitcoiners all around the world by their brutal secondary sanctions!

What?! You think they may be following my posts?

But seriously, isn't it the moment of truth for bitcoin?  

[franky1]

if THEY are blacklisting 2 addresses. then dont use services/exchanges tied to "they"

continue trading bitcoin locally. you will still see that you can swap your fiat for btc by not using exchanges that blacklist
again simple solution.

instead of sitting in a chair worrying yourself and thinking for years you cant swap bitcoin because you fear x,y,z.. find a work around

EG i see flaws of segwit and flaws of LN. my solution. i just dont use segwit or LN

if you want decentralised exchanges. organise a meetup and change hand to hand. code cant organise decentralised exchanges of people

its like your trying to ask a screwdriver to make a wooden box. yes a screw driver is the tool. but it requires a human to put things together and lay out the space to build it.
if you find out that a government is asking a popular retailer to report all screwdriver sales. find another retailer

[Slow death]

[...]

I will not delve into the issue of the fight between Iran is the US, let's talk about bitcoin and Iran, here are the headlines that were published months ago on the news channels:

MAR 18, 2014

Iranian Officials Look Into Bitcoin

That was 4 years ago and it was supposed that today Iran legalized bitcoin or will it be that this article was just rumor? who knows, but let's continue to see other headlines about Iran

NOV 04, 2017

Iranian Government Plans New Infrastructure for Bitcoin Users

Amir Hossein Davaee, Iran’s Deputy Minister of Information and Communication Technology. shares:

“The ministry of communications and information technology has already conducted a number of research studies as part of efforts to prepare the infrastructure to use Bitcoin inside the country.”

FEB 22, 2018

Iran Central Bank Wants To ‘Control And Prevent’ Cryptocurrency, Local Press Reports

Iran’s central bank has split from previous pro-Bitcoin government announcements and is now looking to “prevent” cryptocurrency, according to a report published by the Iran Front Page news site Wednesday, Feb. 21.

An article in local newspaper Iran quoted online by Iran Front Page cites the Central Bank of Iran describing cryptocurrencies as “highly unreliable and risky” this week.

The bank, the press sources claim, is now “cooperating with other institutions to develop a new mechanism to control and prevent digital currencies in Iran.”

APR 04, 2018

Iranian Cyberspace Authority Says Telegram’s Upcoming Crypto Threatens National Currency

The secretary of Iran’s High Council of Cyberspace (HCC) has publicly supported the potential ban of Telegram within the country, citing the chat app’s recent Initial Coin Offering (ICO) as potentially “undermin[ing] the national currency of Iran,” local news outlet Al-Monitor reported yesterday, April 3.

Why the government of Iran has not yet legalized bitcoin? Power corrupts people, and government is consists of a small group of people who only defend their own personal interests.

[franky1]

bitcoin does not ask/force you to use a centralised exchange.
bitcoin does not ask/force you for personal information
bitcoin does not ask/force you to use a certain bank

bitcoin does not ask/force you to avoid local swaps
bitcoin does not ask/force you to avoid OTC trades
bitcoin does not ask/force you to avoid paper money swaps

bitcoin did not code exchanges
bitcoin did not create regulations
bitcoin does not contain code that follow american regulations
bitcoin does not contain code that blacklist addresses

its businesses and people.
thus the problem is not bitcoin its businesses and people

if you want privacy dont give out personal information
if you dont want a business linked to regulation, regulating/prohibiting you. dont use that business

create your people group and circumvent/work around the problem