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Author Topic: Can virtual wallets be confiscated by courts?  (Read 533 times)
Allura74
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November 28, 2018, 02:30:31 AM
 #21

I’m not a legal advisor but in my opinion I think this law is not crafted yet or will not be crafted. It will also depend on what jurisdictions, some countries may apply some may not. Just like the bank secrecy law that protect its clients from unnecessary inquiries but some can be voided by law. But for criminal cases I think it is necessary to confiscate such assets mostly if it involves in drugs and corruption without excuses and with solid evidence.
Virtual wallet for virtual currency does not hold true identity of a specific holder as the fact that virtual currency is a decentralized form but I think if has act against the law then it can be confiscated granting that they already have reliable evedince of that person who owned the wallet.

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November 28, 2018, 05:23:51 AM
 #22

it cant be if you can imagine how they be able to know it and since this kind of assets doesnt define on the book of law ( i dont know if what law we should follow ) but here in my country it is not indicated that kind of assets and even it was indicated it is still hard because there was no data bases for that and the identity of holder is not indicated also so it is hard for it to be confiscated that is why government does not want this kind of industry yet because they dont have control.

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November 28, 2018, 05:51:25 AM
 #23

it cant be if you can imagine how they be able to know it and since this kind of assets doesnt define on the book of law ( i dont know if what law we should follow ) but here in my country it is not indicated that kind of assets and even it was indicated it is still hard because there was no data bases for that and the identity of holder is not indicated also so it is hard for it to be confiscated that is why government does not want this kind of industry yet because they dont have control.
for now, in my country, of course It can't, because the government through Bappebti is still planning bitcoin to enter the trading market, not as a currency. therefore it is difficult for the court to confiscate our wallet, because there is no legal clarity

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November 28, 2018, 07:17:37 AM
 #24

Technically, no one will be able to block your wallet even by court decision, but this only applies to decentralized coins, because Ripple can block any wallet in the system and freeze any funds on the wallet, especially since there have already been similar cases. With Bitcoin, nothing like this can happen due to its structure.
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November 28, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
 #25

At the moment, while you can create anonymously wallets and transfer to other users of the network, you should not worry about blocking funds on the wallet. But when the adoption of cryptocurrencies and legalization begins, then most likely we all will have to go through the KYC procedure and all the wallets and the amount of funds they will be known to law enforcement agencies and it is possible that you can be held accountable for illegal actions, but still block your wallet no one can.
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November 29, 2018, 08:15:54 AM
 #26

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?


Two very important assumptions here.

Firstly, they would have to not recognise bitcoin as an asset at all, and secondly, they would have to not know where to look. And I think that both of them these criterion can't be fulfilled in most countries. Most countries do recognise bitcoin as some form of asset, and they do have quite extensive virtual currency teams by now I assume.

So I definitely wouldn't see bitcoin as some form of currency that is used by criminals as a safe haven (even though the media tries to get you to think this way), because all the same legal repercussions will apply if you conduct fraudulent activities with bitcoin, or if you go bankrupt etc. More likely than not, your wallet will get seized as a result of your wrongdoings if the extent is that high. I'm not sure why you're under the impression that bitcoin can't be touched, legally.

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November 29, 2018, 05:18:14 PM
 #27

If Bitcoin is legal in a certain country then yes it can be confiscated by the court specially if it was involved in illegal activities like money laundering. If you are the wallet owner then the court will command you to give the private keys specially if the transactions are involving huge amounts. So lets just use Bitcoin in to good use but not in illegal transactions.

and in the end we will not be able to use the wallet again because it has been exposed and also if it only depends on the transaction history, it is likely that it will later be rejected because of less concrete evidence. The polemic about money laundering is indeed troublesome, because someone could buy / sell bitcoin to us on the pretext of investing but in fact, they make us become involved in this problem

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November 29, 2018, 05:59:31 PM
 #28

The government can not prohibit and confiscate our wallets. We have a private key and they can not do anything about us. In the crypto market, the government does not have the capacity to apply the law here. This is a decentralized market and they can not do anything else. do not worry.

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November 29, 2018, 06:24:05 PM
 #29

I think all forms of ownership can be confiscated or used as evidence in court in all cases and not only debt. In the modern era like now, I think the government has its own law about all crimes in the online world, except that cases like this still seldom rise to the surface because usually courts only look for evidence in physical form, if someone is guilty without having a rough form so they usually continue to look for evidence to be brought to court, so in my opinion it is possible that the virtual wallet can be confiscated by the court.

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November 29, 2018, 06:34:03 PM
 #30

I am also interested in this question. It became especially interesting after the SEC added 2 Bitcoin wallet of Iranian citizens suspected of fraud to the ban list. I just can not understand how the SEC will be able to influence these people with this decision? After all, now nothing prevents them from exchanging their bitcoins for another cryptocurrency and finally cash out this money. For example, through monero. And no one will know that these are the exactly this people.

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November 30, 2018, 05:54:34 AM
 #31

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Theoretically no, but in practicality it can be. The difference is can they prove you have bitcoins, if you are using something like coinbase for example and give your KYC information to them and make money and so forth, they will ask for your taxes and if you do not provide them that they will try to confiscate something from you, starting from more "real" stuff but can work their way into coinbase as well.

Nothing like that has happened as far as I know but doesn't mean it can't be. However if you are using something without any name that means nobody really knows you have bitcoins anywhere and they can't confiscate something they don't know about. Charlie Shrem recently got burned about it because he failed to pay a million dollars in back taxes whereas he bought a bunch of stuff with bitcoin. Nobody could trace his bitcoins but it is obvious he has some.
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November 30, 2018, 07:17:28 AM
 #32

I am also interested in this question. It became especially interesting after the SEC added 2 Bitcoin wallet of Iranian citizens suspected of fraud to the ban list. I just can not understand how the SEC will be able to influence these people with this decision? After all, now nothing prevents them from exchanging their bitcoins for another cryptocurrency and finally cash out this money. For example, through monero. And no one will know that these are the exactly this people.
Exactly, although its not the SEC by the Treasury Department and they even gave warnings not to deal with that Bitcoin address. So its possible that US might be able to pressure courts to issue an order to confiscate wallets as well. And we all know that US will do everything in their power to weed out those criminals hiding through crypto so right now we might see in happened in the future, just saying.

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November 30, 2018, 07:49:02 AM
 #33

If  virtual currencies are illegal than our wallets can be blocked
If you are suspected for criminal activity can be blocked
Anyway i use vpn
Recommend you to use proton vpn
Even free version works rally well and you are protected
My internet is working better even with his vpn


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Capt00
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November 30, 2018, 09:10:51 AM
 #34

If  virtual currencies are illegal than our wallets can be blocked
If you are suspected for criminal activity can be blocked
Anyway i use vpn
Recommend you to use proton vpn
Even free version works rally well and you are protected
My internet is working better even with his vpn
You are right, then if that illegal also our wallet should be locked by into them, even if having a VPN then your wallet has compiled with KYC that most likely wallets having now in our personal data especially web wallets or apps wallet that we might convert to our local fiat.
Then, yes, it might be our wallet can be confiscated by authorities if we have commit crimes.

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November 30, 2018, 02:39:31 PM
 #35

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Remember is different per country, but if they know anything about a virtual wallet and the government wants to seize the currency they can try to hack into your account, or go to the company where the wallet is stored and ask for corporation. If how ever they don't find any clues that you own a virtual wallet, then there should be no problem other than going to jail because you cannot pay ur debt.

Why this question? Do you run a pharmacy lol

That's right. Every country has their own set of laws. However, if you speak of cyber laws these days, many countries have been updating their laws to cater also that kind of crimes, since there are so many crimes perpetrated online or with the use of the internet. Today, there are a wide array of cyber crimes, and thus, it needs evidence that are mostly cyber in nature as well. Therefore, in many countries, it has given the court power to subpoena or check on online records and use them as evidence in order to help settle cases unlike before when technology is not as widely used as today.
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December 01, 2018, 06:33:11 AM
 #36

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Yes they can confiscate your cryptocurrency if they are aware of it, it’s possible. Whether crypto assets are legal or illegal in your country, I believe the government can always confiscate it. It only gets worst when it is illegal in your country, cause you will also be punished severally for holding an asset that has been declared as illegal by the government of your country. In a place where it is legal, they won’t confiscate it if they are not aware you are in possession of cryptocurrency. Hope I gave the right answer to your question.
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December 01, 2018, 07:06:28 AM
 #37

This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

Who auctioned the coins? The FBI? That is unethical, is it not? He probably worked on those coins but someone just auctioned it off when they took it away from him? Do you think there should be a way we can store coins in a virtual wallet that the court cannot confiscate?

Yes.. it was the FBI who auctioned his coins under the order from the courts. He had stored them in a virtual wallet, but the FBI agents were able to find the private key and transfer the coins. Anyway, those coins will be of little use for him. He is jailed for life without a chance of parole.
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December 02, 2018, 09:06:28 PM
 #38

The cryptocurrency platform is still evolving, presently courts cannot confisticated your wallets except you declare and release your private key, In the near future when there will be global acceptance of the platform, the technological developmetn will be develop to a level where you can declare your portfolio, just as the fiat bank account balance.

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December 02, 2018, 09:11:51 PM
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This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

They seized his live unencrypted computer. That's how they accessed the coins. If he'd managed to shut down and purge his computer before being arrested and refused to let them know how to get into it they could not have gained ownership of those coins.

No court can confiscate a properly set up wallet. It's not technically possible. However since they have jurisdiction over you they can force some extremely unpleasant things on you yourself until or unless you agree to let them in.

If they never know about it then they can't force anything about it on you. You can bet your bippy they'll be watching any financial movements if they suspect you of something very closely though. In that case you need to stay away from any fiat through an exchange or traceable expenditure such as via Bitpay.

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December 02, 2018, 10:58:22 PM
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I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Remember is different per country, but if they know anything about a virtual wallet and the government wants to seize the currency they can try to hack into your account, or go to the company where the wallet is stored and ask for corporation. If how ever they don't find any clues that you own a virtual wallet, then there should be no problem other than going to jail because you cannot pay ur debt.

Why this question? Do you run a pharmacy lol
I am not an attorney but I read some stuff about this. The authorities can confiscate our digital wallet by virtue of search warrant. If there is a search warrant, the investigator can seize any of our property that has a conncetion to the case or crime. Well, digital wallet is connected in graft and corruption, robbery and hacking. It may solve the case.

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