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Author Topic: The release of Satoshi's personal data  (Read 933 times)
AverageGlabella
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December 09, 2018, 04:01:17 PM
Merited by Welsh (5), Foxpup (4), vapourminer (1), yahoo62278 (1), LoyceV (1), Veleor (1), elliottflz65 (1)
 #1

Following my What if? Satoshi Nakamoto's identity was public information   thread. Despite the conspiracy theories going on in the replies a user pointed out something interesting. That theymos is considering releasing the personal messages of Satoshi.

theymos posted this:
I'll probably release Satoshi's PMs and logged IPs addresses in ~8 years. This'd probably be of great historical interest. (Though he always used Tor, as far as I can tell.)

He posted that back in 2013. 8 years from then would be 2021. However I'm a little concerned about exposing personal information just because Satoshi is the one to have created the forum and Bitcoin. His personal data should be handled the exact same as any other user.

Theymos in the past has said that our data is safe from information requests unless he has reason to believe you are scamming or breaking the law. I'm pretty sure I've read that theymos has rejected several subpoenas because he didn't think there was sufficient reason to do so. Taking this into consideration why is theymos willing to release personal messages and logged IPs. Even if he used Tor to connect over the forum his data shouldn't be released. Sure its interesting information but he should not be treated any different.

As you can probably tell from this thread and my what if thread  I'm very against exposing any sort of personal data unless there's a good enough reason. I don't think that historic significance to the cryptocurrency world would be a good enough reason to expose his personal data.

I don't read PMs for fun. Very very rarely, I need to read PMs for technical, administrative, or legal reasons, but I try to avoid this as much as possible. I don't want to spy on anyone's personal business.

obviously lol, i bet the first thing theymos did when he became admin was to read satoshi's pms.

I've never read Satoshi's PMs.

There is nothing to say they didn't subpoena the records of the shroomery

They did.
theymos hadn't read Satoshi's PM's up until this quote and he said that he doesn't like to spy on peoples personal business. I don't think Satoshi should be treated any differently. Even if the information was of historic value and would be interesting to view.
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December 09, 2018, 04:22:41 PM
 #2

Haven't you heard?  Craig Steven Wright is Satoshi.
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December 09, 2018, 05:04:57 PM
 #3

Haven't you heard?  Craig Steven Wright is Satoshi.

Grin




We have information on a lot of personal information from history, people used to write books and letters which were kept over generations/malleniums.

8 years may be a bit short but what’s the harm in posting someone’s pms, a lot of his emails were leaked already.

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December 09, 2018, 05:11:04 PM
 #4

We don't need to know who Satoshi really is. I don't think there's any information about him in his private messages. He always remained anonymous. I have no reason to mistrust Theymos, he is a man of his word.

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December 09, 2018, 05:42:28 PM
 #5

Can we leave Satoshi alone! Who cares to identify the person? Focusing on the creation will help the human being than focusing to the creator. What is bad with Bitcoin?

I could not stand the lies against me anymore. I can not prove them wrong too. It's better I live in peace.
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December 09, 2018, 05:57:49 PM
 #6

There is the possibility that Satoshi wished his PMs and logged IP addresses released at some point, and considering the reference to the future and the time span of 8 years, could be possible that it would be impossible to track the identity of Satoshi through the proposed details.

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December 09, 2018, 06:00:34 PM
Merited by cryptohunter (10), Welsh (5), Foxpup (4), vapourminer (1), LoyceV (1), HeRetiK (1)
 #7

I've rethought this, and I won't be releasing the PMs in 2021. I'm convinced that nobody will ever identify Satoshi no matter what info comes out, so I'm not worried about that, but I am concerned about the privacy of those who communicated with him. For example, kiba once said that he tried to send a gift to Satoshi, but Satoshi declined (reportedly saying something like "I already have plenty of BTC"). If the PMs for this exchange exist in the database and hypothetically look like this:
Quote
kiba: Hey, I know it's worth peanuts, but do you want a gift of 10k BTC?
satoshi: lol, no thanks scrub

Then it would put a big target on kiba's back. (This is only a hypothetical example: in reality, kiba never published the amount he offered Satoshi, if any amount was even specified.) Even if I screened the PMs in advance for obvious stuff like this, it's impossible to find everything. Eg. maybe someone who talked to Satoshi was trying to be anonymous, but people are able to find him just based on his writing style or knowledge.

I do think that there could be historically-relevant info in there, so maybe if Bitcoin has taken over the world in like 50 years and historians are clamoring to know more about its history, I or my successors could be convinced to revisit the issue. Or maybe not; don't get your hopes up. (I still haven't read the PMs, BTW; maybe they're all really boring.)

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December 09, 2018, 06:13:12 PM
 #8

Great. AverageGlabella will be happy now... Roll Eyes
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December 09, 2018, 06:29:31 PM
 #9

I used to think Satoshi invented this forum, that he invented the forum to help discuss the promotion of the token and community. If he did, who got the forum administration employed ? and if he was not the one, then there was a link to him along the line of transferring the forum's leadership. He is not actually anonymous, am sure some people or organisation or government are hiding him

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December 09, 2018, 07:00:16 PM
 #10

As of now and in the supposed year(2021),I doubt there will be any reason whatsoever to reveal satoshi's Pm's for whatever reasons,as such informations remain private as Theymos has reiterated numerous times,but you just get that feeling that with satoshi things will be a bit different as we've got numerous groups clamouring for his identity and probably an inkling could be gotten from his private messages.
I've rethought this, and I won't be releasing the PMs in 2021. I'm convinced that nobody will ever identify Satoshi no matter what info comes out
And this I think this settles it all, for now at least
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December 09, 2018, 07:07:44 PM
 #11

I used to think Satoshi invented this forum, that he invented the forum to help discuss the promotion of the token and community. If he did, who got the forum administration employed ? and if he was not the one, then there was a link to him along the line of transferring the forum's leadership. He is not actually anonymous, am sure some people or organisation or government are hiding him

I think theymos probably knows satoshi's identity. Although it's quite easy to remain anonymous on the internet so it might not be true.

Satoshi originally published bitcoincore on sourceforge and there was a forum there but the forum was moved here (for obvious reasons). Theymos took over control of the forum after satoshi gave him ownership privileges. I think sirius was also quite heavily involved in the forum at the start (not sure where badbear came into the equation though - the old admin here).

Also, anyone know where the forum was before it got moved to amazon aws?

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December 09, 2018, 07:31:58 PM
 #12

I used to think Satoshi invented this forum, that he invented the forum to help discuss the promotion of the token and community. If he did, who got the forum administration employed ? and if he was not the one, then there was a link to him along the line of transferring the forum's leadership. He is not actually anonymous, am sure some people or organisation or government are hiding him

I think theymos probably knows satoshi's identity. Although it's quite easy to remain anonymous on the internet so it might not be true.

Satoshi originally published bitcoincore on sourceforge and there was a forum there but the forum was moved here (for obvious reasons). Theymos took over control of the forum after satoshi gave him ownership privileges. I think sirius was also quite heavily involved in the forum at the start (not sure where badbear came into the equation though - the old admin here).

Also, anyone know where the forum was before it got moved to amazon aws?

So it means that Theymos and other admins who were involved in this forum startup know about satoshi but they dont want to reveal themselves and what who know that who are this admins can also be one of the associate of satoshi or they are itself the group who are involved in cryptocurrency development and then wanted to be anonymous

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December 09, 2018, 07:38:58 PM
 #13

I dont think somebody will find out who Satoshi was =D Maybe in future when new hacking methods or stuff like that come out . And speaking about Craig s wright , im 100% sure his not Satoshi . Imagine what will happen with News channels when somebody publish info about Satoshi nakomoto and who he is . He is / was really clever at start and knew he will need to hide
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December 10, 2018, 11:59:16 AM
Merited by AverageGlabella (2)
 #14

I've rethought this, and I won't be releasing the PMs in 2021. I'm convinced that nobody will ever identify Satoshi no matter what info comes out, so I'm not worried about that

It would be funny if satoshi's dox and home address were just sat in those PMs all along  Grin. Maybe he did an Ulbricht and colossally screwed up right at that start (I seriosuly doubt satoshi was as dumb as Ross)

Even if I screened the PMs in advance for obvious stuff like this, it's impossible to find everything. Eg. maybe someone who talked to Satoshi was trying to be anonymous, but people are able to find him just based on his writing style or knowledge.

I think satoshi is probably safe, but it's surprising how much the way people type gives them away sometimes (especially if they're still active on another account or elsewhere... would be hilarious if satoshi was still on the forum trolling on another account haha. Maybe he's one of the fud trolls  Grin.).  Most people have mannerisms or some identifying marks when they talk and especially type - typos, grammar mistakes, sentence/paragraph structure, specific slang or usual words they use. I've spotted quite a few alts (or suspected ones) over the years just by the way they type. mdayonliner fairly recently created a new account that he purposely wanted to keep separate and anonymous from his original and within a few days I had an inkling that it belonged to him. He then referred to me by a variation of my name in a specific way that I had only ever seen him use that gave the game away fully. A few other people have since noticed it. A similar thing could be used on satoshi, but again, I think he probably took this into consideration. The fact that he wasn't around for that long also helps. The longer people are here the more evidence and personality traits they leave behind and it becomes easier to identify them.

I used to think Satoshi invented this forum, that he invented the forum to help discuss the promotion of the token and community. If he did, who got the forum administration employed ? and if he was not the one, then there was a link to him along the line of transferring the forum's leadership. He is not actually anonymous, am sure some people or organisation or government are hiding him

Why would you think some government would be hiding him and why would they be doing that? I think he just took sufficient steps to remain anonymous. Probably not that difficult to do if it's something you're conscious of before the get-go. Most of us here after all are mostly anonymous but with a few additional steps most people could leave little trace of things that could be tied back to them.

I used to think Satoshi invented this forum, that he invented the forum to help discuss the promotion of the token and community. If he did, who got the forum administration employed ? and if he was not the one, then there was a link to him along the line of transferring the forum's leadership. He is not actually anonymous, am sure some people or organisation or government are hiding him

I think theymos probably knows satoshi's identity. Although it's quite easy to remain anonymous on the internet so it might not be true.

Why would he? I believe theymos has said before he doesn't know who he is, but whether you believe him or not is up to you. Satoshi seems to have taken sufficient steps to tell nobody about his identity and remain anon for obviosu reasons so I'm sure even theymos doesn't even know.

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December 10, 2018, 12:41:44 PM
 #15

I've rethought this, and I won't be releasing the PMs in 2021.
~
I do think that there could be historically-relevant info in there, so maybe if Bitcoin has taken over the world in like 50 years and historians are clamoring to know more about its history, I or my successors could be convinced to revisit the issue.
So I can start PMing my secrets to satoshi Cheesy

Why would you think some government would be hiding him and why would they be doing that?
I can think of a few reasons, for example: "Tell us where your private keys are or you'll be in this hole for the rest of your life".
Satoshi's last posts didn't look like someone who was going to leave the forum. There's a chance he's dead, he could have been hit in traffic. He could also be in jail.
On the other hand, if "Satoshi" was not just one person, but a group of people, it's much less likely they all had accidents. That means there was a reason to disappear into hiding.

Quote
I think he just took sufficient steps to remain anonymous. Probably not that difficult to do if it's something you're conscious of before the get-go. Most of us here after all are mostly anonymous but with a few additional steps most people could leave little trace of things that could be tied back to them.
I'm more curious why satoshi was hiding his identity from the start: did he know how big Bitcoin would get?
I don't think it's common for programmers to take measures to protect their privacy when they post a beta on SourceForge.

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December 10, 2018, 01:00:13 PM
Merited by AverageGlabella (3)
 #16


Quote
I think he just took sufficient steps to remain anonymous. Probably not that difficult to do if it's something you're conscious of before the get-go. Most of us here after all are mostly anonymous but with a few additional steps most people could leave little trace of things that could be tied back to them.
I'm more curious why satoshi was hiding his identity from the start: did he know how big Bitcoin would get?
I don't think it's common for programmers to take measures to protect their privacy when they post a beta on SourceForge.

Nobody could have predicted where bitcoin would go but I believe he did say something along the lines of (and I'm colossally paraphrasing here): In ten years time either nobody will be using it or everybody will be. There are a lots of potential reasons why he may have wished to be anonymous, but we'll probably never know his true reasons. Maybe he wasn't sure of the legality of it or didn't want to run into any potential legal problems in the future. I'm sure governments would have wanted to talk to him at least. If someone knew who he was then they could certainly pressure him to take bitcoin in a certain way or even try to sabotage it. Maybe he just didn't want the attention or hassle of being the founder/figurehead of it. Being famous in any sort of capacity for me would be a nightmare. I like my anonymity. I like being able to walk down the street and nobody hassle or bother me for anything. That changes when you're famous. Maybe satoshi also felt this way.

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December 10, 2018, 01:37:45 PM
 #17

Most people have mannerisms or some identifying marks when they talk and especially type - typos, grammar mistakes, sentence/paragraph structure, specific slang or usual words they use. I've spotted quite a few alts (or suspected ones) over the years just by the way they type. mdayonliner fairly recently created a new account that he purposely wanted to keep separate and anonymous from his original and within a few days I had an inkling that it belonged to him. He then referred to me by a variation of my name in a specific way that I had only ever seen him use that gave the game away fully. A few other people have since noticed it.
I do not deny that it's not possible to identify an account using the writing style (grammar, typos, sense of humour etc etc) however excuse me (LOL) please.

May I ask to PM me the account username please? I am really interested to see your skill.

Quote
(especially if they're still active on another account or elsewhere... would be hilarious if satoshi was still on the forum trolling on another account haha. Maybe he's one of the fud trolls)
Or may be digaran was him and now the Dig Bicks1 LOL

1 I read it Big Dicks

I could not stand the lies against me anymore. I can not prove them wrong too. It's better I live in peace.
So, I am willingly locking mdayonliner. Thank you BitcoinTalk. Be addictive, be a Bitcoiner.
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December 10, 2018, 03:01:26 PM
 #18

You're welcome OP  Roll Eyes

Guess I have to wait another 50 years...

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December 10, 2018, 05:26:14 PM
 #19

mdayonliner fairly recently created a new account that he purposely wanted to keep separate and anonymous from his original and within a few days I had an inkling that it belonged to him. He then referred to me by a variation of my name in a specific way that I had only ever seen him use that gave the game away fully. A few other people have since noticed it.
Yah... Marina5, i.e. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1142505
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December 10, 2018, 06:27:39 PM
Merited by AverageGlabella (5), Welsh (4)
 #20

Nobody could have predicted where bitcoin would go but I believe he did say something along the lines of (and I'm colossally paraphrasing here): In ten years time either nobody will be using it or everybody will be. There are a lots of potential reasons why he may have wished to be anonymous, but we'll probably never know his true reasons. Maybe he wasn't sure of the legality of it or didn't want to run into any potential legal problems in the future. I'm sure governments would have wanted to talk to him at least. If someone knew who he was then they could certainly pressure him to take bitcoin in a certain way or even try to sabotage it. Maybe he just didn't want the attention or hassle of being the founder/figurehead of it. Being famous in any sort of capacity for me would be a nightmare. I like my anonymity. I like being able to walk down the street and nobody hassle or bother me for anything. That changes when you're famous. Maybe satoshi also felt this way.

I think I recall Gavin Andersen meeting with the government. I can't remember if it was the FBI or some other section of the government but he did definitely meet with someone to talk about Bitcoin. I don't think the talks were all that successful and actually made the community question Gavin. I think this was around the time Satoshi went quiet on Gavin too and just up and left although I can't be sure. I'll try and find the thread that was here on the forum but it was a number of years ago. Speculation is speculation but one could assume Satoshi didn't want Gavin to go to the government whatever the meeting was about. Satoshi didn't seem comfortable with that and up and left. I think its fair to assume Satoshi wouldn't want his personal informaiton leaked to the public to as he has taken every precaution to do so. Although it must be said if Satoshi didn't trust theymos judgement he would of likely deleted the pms permanently. Especially if there were sensitive information in them.

Sorry I kind of went off on one there but my point being was the government would of defintely wanted at least a word with Satoshi because they did so with Gavin. They probably tried getting in contact with Satoshi many times but maybe he didn't answer. What could be interesting is whether the government signed up on this forum and messaged him asking for a meeting. I agree with a lot of people that its unfortunate that the pms wont be released but at the same time its only fair to those that he was in contact with.
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