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Author Topic: Demands of Gilet Jaunes (Yellow Vests)  (Read 460 times)
coins4commies
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December 17, 2018, 10:02:23 PM
 #1

There is a lot of buzz around social media about what these protests are about.  We even have right wingers saying they are pro-Trump protests.  Its not an accident that MSM is vaguely reporting what the movement is about.  They don't want it to spread!   Let me just put an end to conservatives trying to claim Gilet Jaunes right now.  I have bolded the ones that are especially left wing.
Quote
1. Housing for all homeless people

2. A more progressive tax system
3. Minimum wage of 1,300€/month
4. Measures to protect small businesses (stop building malls, no more “big box” stores), more parking spaces in downtowns
5. Government program for insulating homes & other buildings
6. Big businesses (McDonald’s, Google, Amazon...) should pay big taxes & small businesses pay small ones
7. Same health insurance system for all (including self-employed)
8. Keep retirement system the way it is now (working people pay the pensions of retirees)
9. No more increases on fuel taxes
10. No old age pensions below 1,200€/month
11. All elected officials should earn French median income + reimbursement of travel costs if justified + meal tickets
12. All salaries & government benefits must be indexed on inflation
13. Protect French industry, outlaw delocalizations
14. End the European system whereby workers from other European countries are paid the lower salaries and benefits of their respective countries rather than French wages and benefits
15. Job security. Larger businesses should be obliged to give more employees permanent contracts (CDI)
16. Create a French industry of hydrogen powered automobiles
17. End the politics of austerity
18.  Better treatment for asylum seekers. Provide lodging, food, security & ...
18. (cont.) ... education for minors. Work with the UN to build camps in many countries to hold asylum seekers until their papers are processed
19. Accompany those who are not granted asylum back to the countries they came from
20. Create a program for integrating immigrants. Living in France entails becoming French (certificate program in French language, history, civics)
21. Maximum salary fixed at 15,000€/month
22. Jobs for the unemployed

Uh-oh, missed one up thread 😩
Here’s the one I missed, should have been number 18:

18. Treat the causes that are forcing people to migrate.
24. Increase disability pensions
25. Rent control. More social housing and in particular housing for college students, contractors, gig economy workers, people without steady jobs
26. Outlaw the sale of French public property (dams, airports...)
27. Allocate much more money to the justice system, the police and the armed forces. Pay police officers overtime or allow them to take the corresponding hours off
28. The totality of sums collected at toll booths should go to maintaining the countries highways & roads...
28. (cont.) ... and to road security.
29. As the prices of natural gas & electricity have risen since these sectors were privatized, we demand the re-nationalization of these industries and the lowering of prices
30. An immediate end to the closings of smaller train lines,...
30. (cont.) ... post offices, schools and maternity wards
31. Well-being for our elderly. Outlaw for-profit elderly care. The time of “gray gold” has come to an end
32. A maximum of 25 students per class from nursery school through high school
33. More public financing of psychiatry
34. Write a popular referendum system into the Constitution. Create an on-line referendum site where citizens can propose new laws, overseen by an independent body. If a proposition receives over 700,000 votes it should be introduced...
34. (cont.) into Congress, accordingly completed, amended and discussed before all citizens are allowed to vote on it (within exactly one year of obtaining the 700,000 signatures)
35. Return to a presidential mandate of 7 years (currently it’s 5) with interim elections of reps
36. Retirement for all at 60 years old and at 55 for people in professions that are hard on the body (construction work...)
37. Extension of public aid to parents paying for daycare for children up until 10 years of age
38. Incentivize transportation of merchandise by rail
39. No withholding of income tax
40. Presidents should no longer receive a salary for life
41. Outlaw the tax paid by shopkeepers each time a client pays by credit or debit card
42. Tax kerosene, air and maritime fuels
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cestmoi
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December 17, 2018, 10:43:16 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3), theymos (2), TECSHARE (2)
 #2

The demands of the gilet jaunes are just a joke.
I am french, i lived there for 28 years before leaving tired of the attitude french have about working / money.

They (we) want more while doing less.

Number 10 :
Let's sum up.
You are born, you don't pay for the hospital.
Then you go to school for 25 years for free (your parent don't pay, you have no student loan either).
Then you work for 40 years (age 65) and earn 1300 euros per months.  Obviously you don't pay for hospital, you dont pay for schooling of your children either.
Then, because you worked for 40 years you want to have for the next 25 / 30 years  (until your death) 1200 euros per month (almost as much as what you were earning)  paid by the government while not paying for your very expensive end of life medical treatment. 

In which world do we live ?


That list of 42 demands is just the proof that the gilet jaunes are living in a pink world where money grow on tree.

I do however agree with many points( 2 / 3/4/6 !!!!/ 11 !!!/ 15/ 21/ 34 ......) , but come-on ! let's be reasonable.

“W̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ill you draW̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ me a sheep?”
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December 18, 2018, 02:15:23 AM
Last edit: December 18, 2018, 03:13:03 AM by TECSHARE
 #3

Just as predicted the Socialists and Commies roll in and try to take credit for everyone elses work and hijack the group and redirect it toward implementing Marxist ideologies. They are parasites and can build nothing of their own. I saw the exact same shit happen to Occupy in the US. Before you know it, it will be yellow vest consensus by hand sparkle (because clapping can trigger people). Communists and Socialists LAARP as revolutionaries, but the real result is they help maintain the status quo.


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cestmoi
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December 18, 2018, 02:29:02 AM
Last edit: December 19, 2018, 01:36:56 AM by cestmoi
 #4

I am french, I lived in France my first 28 years, moved overseas (literally as far as one human can go : in the Pacific islands ) and have been working there for the past 4 years. I intend to move again early 2019 but hell no, i'm not moving back to France.

I am still obviously still in touch with France via my younger brother (that is being paid minimum wages) and my parents that are civil servant so just basically earning the median income or maybe a little less.
I call them twice a week and we talk about politic and how should France be if it was a perfect world.

All of the points below are always hot topics at xmas diner haha.



Quote
1. Housing for all homeless people
How do yo intend to do that ? what will prevent people to declare themselves homeless to have a home for free. Migration is free and easy in europe, what prevent europeans to come to france declare themselves homeless and claim a free house. if anything to do it you would have to increase taxes by 1000 factor!

2. A more progressive tax system
Agreed !

3. Minimum wage of 1,300€/month
Yes if you want, but it won't change much. It is a society issue. Give people 1000euros a month they don't save a penny, give them 1500 euros a month they still won't save a penny. people have to change the way they consume (spend money).

4. Measures to protect small businesses (stop building malls, no more “big box” stores), more parking spaces in downtowns
Well, i agree with this. Except that french people love to go to malls or to buy on amazon to pay LESS then the small shops in the city center.

5. Government program for insulating homes & other buildings
yes ok, but technically it will force homeowner to spend money, unless it is subsidized  (= more tax)

6. Big businesses (McDonald’s, Google, Amazon...) should pay big taxes & small businesses pay small ones
I agree, buisnesses should pay taxes where they operate. Let's stop the bulsshit of tax optimisation with legal offshore parent/child company sucking the taxes from european countries (but not just European countries).

7. Same health insurance system for all (including self-employed)
Ok, let's do it. (it will increase taxes).

8. Keep retirement system the way it is now (working people pay the pensions of retirees)
This is not possible. The retirement systeme was created so old people would have a living minimun IF they didnt sorted themselve earlier. It was made after the war when most have lost everything. It has always been designed so working labour would commit some of their wages to pay for the older people. Not as an individualistic "I pay tax so i expect to have the same salary when i retire". If there is less people working, the "cake" is smaller and the retirement pension smaller. Same applies if people live longer and more are on the retirement pension.

9. No more increases on fuel taxes
Ok, but less tax = less money to spend on all the things you are demanding

10. No old age pensions below 1,200€/month
Refer point 8

11. All elected officials should earn French median income + reimbursement of travel costs if justified + meal tickets
Yes !!!! that would be great, it would not save much money, but at least they would understand what it means to live with a regular income and not like a king

12. All salaries & government benefits must be indexed on inflation
Yes !

13. Protect French industry, outlaw delocalizations
Well, this is hard to do, unless you want to pay your car twice the price or your white-ware or your TV ...

14. End the European system whereby workers from other European countries are paid the lower salaries and benefits of their respective countries rather than French wages and benefits
Unrealistic, do you level to the top or the bottom ? who pays for the extra wages ?

15. Job security. Larger businesses should be obliged to give more employees permanent contracts (CDI)
Yes, but also if an employee is at fault or not good they should be allowed to fire him. It is quite common that employee stay in the same company for 30 years or more overseas and they just have a 4 weeks notice.

16. Create a French industry of hydrogen powered automobiles
Yes lets do it. It would have to be private, unless yo uwant more taxes to be raised to pay for this brand new industry.

17. End the politics of austerity
Sure, but spendings would have to be reduced. For the past 40 years France has spent 103% of his GPD. to write is in easy way. If Frence's salary is 100$ then the government is spending 103$ .... how does it work ? it is still the case even though we are in an "austerity" period.

18.  Better treatment for asylum seekers. Provide lodging, food, security & ...
Hell yes ! but again, where do you take the money from if you don't raise tax (we are already spending more money that we are earning/raising).

18. (cont.) ... education for minors. Work with the UN to build camps in many countries to hold asylum seekers until their papers are processed
yes, see previous point

19. Accompany those who are not granted asylum back to the countries they came from
ok

20. Create a program for integrating immigrants. Living in France entails becoming French (certificate program in French language, history, civics)
Yes !

21. Maximum salary fixed at 15,000€/month
Well, good luck with that. Salary or income ? it is not the same. And also, if you want someone talented to be a CEO or a top executive, why would work in France for just 15 000E when he can have 2,3 10 times this in Switzerland or in any other country.

22. Jobs for the unemployed
Yes sure, start your own business, and employ people you will see how easy it is. And if you refer to civil servant jobs. Well it means more tax to pay the salaries.

Uh-oh, missed one up thread 😩
Here’s the one I missed, should have been number 18:

18. Treat the causes that are forcing people to migrate.
That would have been great to develop what is the actual demand here.

24. Increase disability pensions
Yes, with which money ?

25. Rent control. More social housing and in particular housing for college students, contractors, gig economy workers, people without steady jobs
This is pure hypocrisy, most french people aspire to be able to buy a second home to rent it. And obviously to rent it as high as possible to yield a good return. But obviously if you are  a renter you want to rents to be frozen and as low as possible. In France you can get a mortgage with a fixed rate (fixed for 20 years) at 1.6 to 2.1%  there is no excuse to not pull your finger out of your ass, save and buy your own flat or house.

26. Outlaw the sale of French public property (dams, airports...)
i am not against, but again, privately operated it is more efficient.

27. Allocate much more money to the justice system, the police and the armed forces. Pay police officers overtime or allow them to take the corresponding hours off
Yes ! let's raise the taxes to do it !

28. The totality of sums collected at toll booths should go to maintaining the countries highways & roads...
yes !

28. (cont.) ... and to road security.

29. As the prices of natural gas & electricity have risen since these sectors were privatized, we demand the re-nationalization of these industries and the lowering of prices
Lol, and subsidized it with tax money.

30. An immediate end to the closings of smaller train lines,...
If a train line is not profitable, why keeping it ? it is basically wasting tax money on something not profitable

30. (cont.) ... post offices, schools and maternity wards
Same as above

31. Well-being for our elderly. Outlaw for-profit elderly care. The time of “gray gold” has come to an end
I agree, retirement village / retirement home  should be cheaper.

32. A maximum of 25 students per class from nursery school through high school
Sure, let's increase the taxes to do it !

33. More public financing of psychiatry
yes, but again, more healthcare spending = more taxes, we are al;ready spending more than collecting

34. Write a popular referendum system into the Constitution. Create an on-line referendum site where citizens can propose new laws, overseen by an independent body. If a proposition receives over 700,000 votes it should be introduced...
(cont.) into Congress, accordingly completed, amended and discussed before all citizens are allowed to vote on it (within exactly one year of obtaining the 700,000 signatures)
YES !!!

35. Return to a presidential mandate of 7 years (currently it’s 5) with interim elections of reps
OK

36. Retirement for all at 60 years old and at 55 for people in professions that are hard on the body (construction work...)
See point 8 above

37. Extension of public aid to parents paying for daycare for children up until 10 years of age
With tax money, let's increase the taxes to do it !

38. Incentivize transportation of merchandise by rail
Yes !

39. No withholding of income tax
ok but it means less spendable money for the government = less funding for research, police, university, health...

40. Presidents should no longer receive a salary for life
HELL YES !!!!

41. Outlaw the tax paid by shopkeepers each time a client pays by credit or debit card
Ok, but it is unlikely that Visa or mastercard wil accept

42. Tax kerosene, air and maritime fuels
Yes, this will increase the cost of flying on holiday, hence limiting low income people to have a holiday overseas



“W̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ill you draW̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ me a sheep?”
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December 18, 2018, 04:23:36 AM
 #5

The demands of the gilet jaunes are just a joke.
I am french, i lived there for 28 years before leaving tired of the attitude french have about working / money.

They (we) want more while doing less.

Number 10 :
Let's sum up.
You are born, you don't pay for the hospital.
Then you go to school for 25 years for free (your parent don't pay, you have no student loan either).
Then you work for 40 years (age 65) and earn 1300 euros per months.  Obviously you don't pay for hospital, you dont pay for schooling of your children either.
Then, because you worked for 40 years you want to have for the next 25 / 30 years  (until your death) 1200 euros per month (almost as much as what you were earning)  paid by the government while not paying for your very expensive end of life medical treatment. 

In which world do we live ?


That list of 42 demands is just the proof that the gilet jaunes are living in a pink world where money grow on tree.

I do however agree with many points( 2 / 3/4/6 !!!!/ 11 !!!/ 15/ 21/ 34 ......) , but come-on ! let's be reasonable.

Money did grow on trees but now it grows on 1s and 0s.  People want to build the skills they need to work until they are no longer working age and then want to survive their later years with at least basic dignity while seeing their children do the same or better.   Its not free loading because they want to contribute work to society for most of their lives  (40 years) and only want basic dignity back in return.     That sounds like the goals of most everyone I've ever come across on this planet.   What is wrong with any of that? 

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December 18, 2018, 10:13:39 AM
 #6

When I stated the demands are "socialist", I got called "not smart" and my post was deleted. Probably not the post where I got called that, but okay. Granted, it was one line post, but sometimes a duck is a duck, I didn't see the need to elaborate for the audience here who I am sure is monitoring the situation closely. Apologies to the moderator.

Anyway, I don't think this is just a leftist infiltration into the right wing movement. If it is, it is pretty damn good and it looks like the infiltration will take over. If all these parasites are so competent, the host will die.

BUT. France is about freedom, equality and brotherhood. It always has been. Think long and hard about that.
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December 18, 2018, 10:44:44 AM
Merited by Yaplatu (1)
 #7


Then you work for 40 years (age 65) and earn 1300 euros per months.  Obviously you don't pay for hospital, you dont pay for schooling of your children either.
Then, because you worked for 40 years you want to have for the next 25 / 30 years  (until your death) 1200 euros per month (almost as much as what you were earning)  paid by the government while not paying for your very expensive end of life medical treatment.  


WTF Huh So much of what you just said is wrong (and not just morally wrong, just completely wrong).
So I suppose you're gonna kill yourself before you become a burden for others ?
Or else, you're gonna work until you die ?

Please chose option 1.

I can't believe people merited this idiot.



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December 18, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
 #8

(snip)
the proof that the gilet jaunes are living in a pink world where money grow on tree.

Indeed : https://twitter.com/redfishstream/status/1073850878120071168

(The problem with democracy is that from time to time people believe they have the right to participate.)
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December 18, 2018, 10:55:41 AM
 #9


I am french, i lived there for 28 years before leaving tired of the attitude french have about working / money.


Thank you very much!  We do not need a loser  Wink


"Les révolutions coupent les têtes alors qu'il suffirait de changer les cerveaux." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.
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December 18, 2018, 12:52:53 PM
 #10

The demands of the gilet jaunes are just a joke.
I am french, i lived there for 28 years before leaving tired of the attitude french have about working / money.

They (we) want more while doing less.

Number 10 :
Let's sum up.
You are born, you don't pay for the hospital.
Then you go to school for 25 years for free (your parent don't pay, you have no student loan either).
Then you work for 40 years (age 65) and earn 1300 euros per months.  Obviously you don't pay for hospital, you dont pay for schooling of your children either.
Then, because you worked for 40 years you want to have for the next 25 / 30 years  (until your death) 1200 euros per month (almost as much as what you were earning)  paid by the government while not paying for your very expensive end of life medical treatment. 

In which world do we live ?


That list of 42 demands is just the proof that the gilet jaunes are living in a pink world where money grow on tree.

I do however agree with many points( 2 / 3/4/6 !!!!/ 11 !!!/ 15/ 21/ 34 ......) , but come-on ! let's be reasonable.
If you were french, you'd know that hospitals are not free, you must pay every month a healthcare insurance for that.
University is also not free, fees are low ok but french universities are very low too...

 
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December 18, 2018, 06:17:42 PM
Merited by Flying Hellfish (4), theymos_away (2)
 #11


If you were french, you'd know that hospitals are not free, you must pay every month a healthcare insurance for that.
University is also not free, fees are low ok but french universities are very low too...

80% of hospital care is paid directly by the sécurité sociale.
If you stay several days at the hospital, yes you have 20€ left to pay.

But if you have a chronic disease Sécu pays 100%
If you are pregnant over 5 months, Sécu pays 100%.
If your condition is work related, even if symptoms occured after your retirement or job change, Sécu pays 100%
Infants first month, Sécu pays 100%
You stay longer than 30 days in a row, 31st day and further, you know it, Sécu pays 100%

The way I see it the people are in the street because they want more.
They want more money, they want more free time, and they want more liberty.
But what are they willing to do for it?
I know for a fact difficult jobs are always looking for manpower, and they pay more.
Take a look in big cities in France. Who is doing the garbage collection? Who is cleaning the streets. Most know the answer. These jobs are tough, and pay more.

Of course there will always be examples of social unfairness. No system is perfect. But I think the state is doing a fair job.

The best way this would be constructive would actually to challenge the budget of the government. I didn't see any Gilet Jaune doing anything close to this, proposing anything that would actually make a difference.

Some points are valid tho:

- A more progressive income tax system is a must. In France the highest tax is from 45k€ NETTO/month. And it implies 45% taxation. To me that level of taxation occurs way too late.
- More direct democracy.
etc

Will continue by quoting previous post

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December 18, 2018, 06:30:37 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2018, 06:47:56 PM by F2b
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 #12

Well... you're right mates, but we must admit that not everything on that list is doable.
You know there's already a pretty huge budget deficit (like almost every country (thanks FIATs ! would it happen if they all used Bitcoin ?)). Some points of the list are realisable without spending much money, but some others would be really expensive, and if it costs money on a side, you need to take some money on the other side (with taxes). (PS : I'm pretty clumsy explaining this, just read the previous post, it's better Grin (Edit : and the post after this one too))
Some people thinks that we should have more taxes and more help for people needing it. Some others thinks the opposite : reduce taxes but give less to the people in need. Both points of views have good arguments, but we will probably never be able to make these people reach agreement, unfortunately.

However, if we put aside the money-related revendications, then there are some propositions that are really, really interesting.

Last thing, I like pretty much criticizing the government and its decisions, but I don't think we would do the job better than them. (I mean, on some points we would, but in average we wouldn't.) If we want to have a democracy really working, we have to build a brand new system from zero, and involve everyone in it. But even with this, there would still be alot of problems, I'm pretty conviced of that.

Sorry, pas du tout de temps pour participer au fofo en ce moment. Pas facile de tenir le rythme (le comble pour un bruyant comme moi ^^), mais je ne vous abandonne pas. Je continue à vous lire de temps en temps, mais en différé... Prenez soin de vous.                                Rappel : si vous voulez mériter des posts et que vous n'avez plus assez de sMerits, n'hésiter pas à garder les liens dans un coin pour, au bout d'un moment, poster la liste ICI. J'y jetterai un oeil.


Quote from: Yaplatu      (comme quoi on peut tout sortir de son contexte ; et on peut tous le faire)
Après ça dépend, les femmes sont plus attirées par les grosses bites pourtant il y a toujours des petites bites. (post original)
(...) J'avais lu un article vraiment perspicace à ce sujet, mais je ne remets pas la main dessus. (post original) (edit : celui-ci aussi est priceless)


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December 18, 2018, 06:33:13 PM
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 #13

Quote
1. Housing for all homeless people => nice thought. I'd be down for it. But this means more taxes, which is what yellow vests started demonstrating against.

2. A more progressive tax system => Ok good idea. Steps are too steep.
3. Minimum wage of 1,300€/month => Why not, but where do we find the money? Also the purchasing power in France has been steadily increasing last 25 years...
4. Measures to protect small businesses (stop building malls, no more “big box” stores), more parking spaces in downtowns => WTF ? The idea is to move people to public transportation, not to make more room for more cars.
5. Government program for insulating homes & other buildings => Sure, with your money?
6. Big businesses (McDonald’s, Google, Amazon...) should pay big taxes & small businesses pay small ones => actually yes, but it's already the case, minus when they transfer they profits to ireland or another paradise.
7. Same health insurance system for all (including self-employed) => It is already almost the case. You can get most necessary care for free.
8. Keep retirement system the way it is now (working people pay the pensions of retirees) => Ok so more old people, longer life expectancy, so where do we get the money? You live longer, you work longer. Period.
9. No more increases on fuel taxes => So fuck environment? Fuck what we voted regarding carbon emissions?
10. No old age pensions below 1,200€/month => Again, nice thought, but where do we get the money? The movement arose because taxes are too high. Basically this is another "just increase taxes"
11. All elected officials should earn French median income + reimbursement of travel costs if justified + meal tickets => Why not. But then we would have noone that is even close to having the needed brains to run the country. Real bad idea
12. All salaries & government benefits must be indexed on inflation => No. The salaries have actually been cut down last years.
13. Protect French industry, outlaw delocalizations => So that we loose any chance of being competitive? This means losing marketshares, losing BIP, and having pricier products in France, you wouldn't be able to affort anymore
14. End the European system whereby workers from other European countries are paid the lower salaries and benefits of their respective countries rather than French wages and benefits. => This is up to them to accept working for that wage. Some people are actually willing to do what it takes to get paid.
15. Job security. Larger businesses should be obliged to give more employees permanent contracts (CDI) => No better way to kill their envy to offer jobs in France. Looking at 2 figures unemployment.
16. Create a French industry of hydrogen powered automobiles => Air Liquide is world leader in Hydrogen. We might be getting there. But then how to produce the needed electricity? More nuclear power? We aren't even able anymore to build new nuclear plants (cf flamanville). And everyone gets crazy when the word wind farm is pronounced. This is you guys
17. End the politics of austerity => austerity in France ?!
18.  Better treatment for asylum seekers. Provide lodging, food, security & ... => YES YES YES PLEASE
18. (cont.) ... education for minors. Work with the UN to build camps in many countries to hold asylum seekers until their papers are processed
19. Accompany those who are not granted asylum back to the countries they came from
20. Create a program for integrating immigrants. Living in France entails becoming French (certificate program in French language, history, civics)
21. Maximum salary fixed at 15,000€/month => Again that would kill the drive of some people who are helping the french economy strive.
22. Jobs for the unemployed => Ok let's make some jobs. lol, wonder how since you want to scare all the companies away

Uh-oh, missed one up thread 😩
Here’s the one I missed, should have been number 18:

18. Treat the causes that are forcing people to migrate.
24. Increase disability pensions
25. Rent control. More social housing and in particular housing for college students, contractors, gig economy workers, people without steady jobs
26. Outlaw the sale of French public property (dams, airports...) => I'm pretty happy France got out of Alstom
27. Allocate much more money to the justice system, the police and the armed forces. Pay police officers overtime or allow them to take the corresponding hours off => Money from where?
28. The totality of sums collected at toll booths should go to maintaining the countries highways & roads...
28. (cont.) ... and to road security.
29. As the prices of natural gas & electricity have risen since these sectors were privatized, we demand the re-nationalization of these industries and the lowering of prices
30. An immediate end to the closings of smaller train lines,...
30. (cont.) ... post offices, schools and maternity wards
31. Well-being for our elderly. Outlaw for-profit elderly care. The time of “gray gold” has come to an end
32. A maximum of 25 students per class from nursery school through high school => money
33. More public financing of psychiatry
34. Write a popular referendum system into the Constitution. Create an on-line referendum site where citizens can propose new laws, overseen by an independent body. If a proposition receives over 700,000 votes it should be introduced...
34. (cont.) into Congress, accordingly completed, amended and discussed before all citizens are allowed to vote on it (within exactly one year of obtaining the 700,000 signatures)
35. Return to a presidential mandate of 7 years (currently it’s 5) with interim elections of reps
36. Retirement for all at 60 years old and at 55 for people in professions that are hard on the body (construction work...) => lol. See above
37. Extension of public aid to parents paying for daycare for children up until 10 years of age
38. Incentivize transportation of merchandise by rail - Yes please. However difficult on the french infrastructure right new. Did a research paper on this one.
39. No withholding of income tax = wut ?
40. Presidents should no longer receive a salary for life => agreed
41. Outlaw the tax paid by shopkeepers each time a client pays by credit or debit card => Ok but if they don't pay it, you pay your credit card 200€/year. Have fun.
42. Tax kerosene, air and maritime fuels Yes please, then again don't whine if your easyjet is suddenly too expensive for you

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December 18, 2018, 07:13:45 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2018, 07:31:59 PM by kenzawak
Merited by Flying Hellfish (4)
 #14

Just gonna throw up here.
Everybody knows where the money can come from.

Let's see :
-$400k : Edouard Philippe, prime minister uses two Airbus 340 to come back from Tokyo. Reason ? Personal comfort.
-$6k : that's how much deputies earn per month. At the "National Assembly", most of them never show up, never vote, never take part in debates. In total, Senate + Assembly, there's about a thousand of them. They also get about 7k in expenses, expenses that they don't have to justify to anyone.
-$600k : this is how much it cost to change the kitchenware at the Elysees
-$600k : the price to change the carpet at the Elysees.. yes the carpet !
-$40k to build a new swimming pool at the Fort de Bregancon, one of the State properties used by the President for his holidays.
-+20% : that's the amount of the raise the French ministers received last year
-+40% : same thing for many French mayors and their wages
-100 Billion Euros in tax fraud, most of it coming of course from the richest people and biggest businesses. Ever heard of Carlos Ghosn ? We have lots like him in France but the government protects them.
-Wanna talk about retirement pensions ? Let's talk about the ones our politicians earn. Former president Sakorzy costs us about $4 millions per year ! All former politicians get pensions for each role they had in the State (minister, member of Parliament...) and many other privileges (free cars, free first class tickets on Air France, free security...).
-How about the suppression of the ISF, a gift from Macron to the rich ? It was a tax the richest people had to pay. Well that was before Macron who canceled it. Some idiots will tell you it's a good thing for the French Economy, that it will help create employment and incite rich people to come back to France. Well, the past year showed this is complete bullshit.


Shall I go on ? These are just a few examples.

In the meantime, you see old ladies in discount shops paying with yellow coins, families who at the middle of the month are already in red on their bank accounts, students afraid about their future...
For once, the whole country is protesting. 72% of the people support the gilets jaunes movement.
Macron is at an all time low 23% in popularity surveys.

But yeah French people are just lazy idiots who know nothing about economics. Well, at least we can recognize when we're being fucked in the ass without jelly (French expression sorry).
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December 18, 2018, 08:34:56 PM
Last edit: December 19, 2018, 01:35:29 AM by cestmoi
Merited by Flying Hellfish (4), TECSHARE (1)
 #15

The demands of the gilet jaunes are just a joke.

Your (stupid) summaries is the real joke !

You have leave France,stay away.
I answered you in the french board.


i lived there for 28 years before leaving

Good riddance, don't come back.
See my answer on the french board.



Then you work for 40 years (age 65) and earn 1300 euros per months.  Obviously you don't pay for hospital, you dont pay for schooling of your children either.
Then, because you worked for 40 years you want to have for the next 25 / 30 years  (until your death) 1200 euros per month (almost as much as what you were earning)  paid by the government while not paying for your very expensive end of life medical treatment.  


WTF Huh So much of what you just said is wrong (and not just morally wrong, just completely wrong).
So I suppose you're gonna kill yourself before you become a burden for others ?
Or else, you're gonna work until you die ?

Please chose option 1.

I can't believe people merited this idiot.



Dude, i'm just stating facts!
Anyway the french system was never about "paying tax for its own retirement"
It always has been : "let's tax the workers to pay for the retired"

If there are less worker, or if the number of retired is higher then the share for each retired is smaller. Basic maths / economics




I am french, i lived there for 28 years before leaving tired of the attitude french have about working / money.

Thank you very much!  We do not need a loser  Wink



No worries mate. I don't need you either.



~snip~
If you were french, you'd know that hospitals are not free, you must pay every month a healthcare insurance for that.
University is also not free, fees are low ok but french universities are very low too...
[/quote]

Hospital not free ? Do you pay 1000 euro for an Xray ? Do you pay 50 000 for a small surgery ? we both know the answer. Yes there is a tiny bit to pay, but it is fuck all. I had a surgery, stayed in hospital for 2 days  and i had to pay 140 euros. In the real world it is considered as "free".
If you are on minimum wage (which you aspire to be  Grin  then you don't pay anything)

You don't have to pay for a healthcare, my dad never paid for one, and at 62 years of age he has saved thousands not paying private care insurance.

University not free ? you are joking, it is 500 euros per year, it is 2 euros per day (only 223 working days in France). Student are spending 10 times this amount on alcool, cigarettes and other stuff (i was a student not long ago !).
And you get more than that back on subsidized meal at the school restaurant and even more thanks to the 130 euros / month on housing benefits.
Go to the US, UK, Australia .....

See this answer by another frenchmen : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5086257.msg48745887#msg48745887


Well, I do agree with maybe 80% of the gilet jaunes demands, but 20% are just pure utopia.

In France we have that saying, "it is funny the number of Taxi driver or hair dresser that missed their call and should have been a President".


Also, i have given my view on the 42 demands and while i agree with some, it is always the same : we want less tax, but we want the state to do more stuff.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5086257.msg48731861#msg48731861

“W̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ill you draW̼̟̻͎̞̦̖̭̩͔͇̺͍̩̯̲̔̆̌̏͂͑ͦͧ͛̿̑̈́̎͑̽̍ͭ̏̇͜ me a sheep?”
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December 19, 2018, 03:53:21 AM
 #16

The demands of the gilet jaunes are just a joke.
I am french, i lived there for 28 years before leaving tired of the attitude french have about working / money.

They (we) want more while doing less.

Number 10 :
Let's sum up.
You are born, you don't pay for the hospital.
Then you go to school for 25 years for free (your parent don't pay, you have no student loan either).
Then you work for 40 years (age 65) and earn 1300 euros per months.  Obviously you don't pay for hospital, you dont pay for schooling of your children either.
Then, because you worked for 40 years you want to have for the next 25 / 30 years  (until your death) 1200 euros per month (almost as much as what you were earning)  paid by the government while not paying for your very expensive end of life medical treatment. 

In which world do we live ?


That list of 42 demands is just the proof that the gilet jaunes are living in a pink world where money grow on tree.

I do however agree with many points( 2 / 3/4/6 !!!!/ 11 !!!/ 15/ 21/ 34 ......) , but come-on ! let's be reasonable.


I can't agree more about many of the demands being nothing but a joke, but i think the gilet jaunes are following an exact old saying in my country which says " always shoot at the belly" , referring to when an average person is shooting at someone, you aim for the head then you don't have much room to the upside and your bullet will go to waste , same goes for aiming at the feet , But shoot at the belly, you will still make a shot worth it even with a slight miss.

so the gilet jaunes took their shot knowing 100% that most of their demands will not be met , but at least some will.

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December 19, 2018, 02:40:11 PM
 #17

You forgot the one most important demand of Gilets Jaunes.

The one that truly matter.

The one nobody can argue against and governments just try to put under the carpet.

The one that makes bot left and right wings agree.



Referendum initiative. The right for the people to decide the law and the constitution.


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December 19, 2018, 04:02:25 PM
 #18

Referendum initiative. The right for the people to decide the law and the constitution.
I didn't. I said I was in favor of more direct democracy. This is included.

However taking people hostage is not the way to ask for it, and neither is degrading property.

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December 19, 2018, 04:09:18 PM
 #19

Referendum initiative. The right for the people to decide the law and the constitution.
I didn't. I said I was in favor of more direct democracy. This is included.

However taking people hostage is not the way to ask for it, and neither is degrading property.

You're not the OP so you're not the one I was adressing the "you forgot" part Wink

Degrading property, violence, killing... All this is the basis of every strong social change that ever happened. If it's not the right way to ask for more power then what is? Peacefully demonstrating and politely asking?

People forget that violence has always been the best weapon of the common folks. We're more numerous, we're stronger, we don't have to play the game by their rules.

Who said violence was a bad thing? Who said we couldn't just go take the guillotine out again and go through European aristocracy all again?
Damn some heads should rolls.

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December 19, 2018, 04:27:24 PM
 #20

First of all you didn't quote op not addressed to him in any way. So it is normal to suppose you are addressing to the latest posts.

Most people are against violence. Also you should check maslow's pyramid.
Safety is in second position in it.



Also you can hardly compare situation in France today with times pre revolution when people got killed by the people holding power with 0 justice. There are means for peaceful change today. That's actually what democracy is about, you should look it up.

If everyone is agreeing on this point it should be fairly easy to make a political program around it and getting elected.

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