[ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven.

[Hueristic]

They don't cause centralization.

Really? So you think that one person/group controlling 1000s of mining machines where they can achieve more than half the hash rate isn't centralization?

nope.

I see.. Well either you're not all that bright since that's exactly why Satoshi designed what he did, or you have an ulterior motive for spreading that fallacy. Either way, not like it really matters since it's all going to end up being centralized so good luck to you.

What is that difference between 1000s of mining ASICs, 10000 of mining GPUs and 5 people controlling half of the coins in a PoS system?

For as long as there are poor and rich people, centralizion will keep occurring in one form on another.

What is the difference between cryptocurrency and central bankers shitting money out of thin air?

If a currency can not exist without being controlled by a few, then its not a currency, its shit.

Miners, hardware, electricity, ups the stakes significantly compared to PoS, which leads faster to centralization and shitcoins.

You might believe Bitcoin is decentralized, but it's not much better than altcoins.
Thanks to BTC's aggressive halvings, the few who knew about BTC in its early days obtained more than half of its supply in less than 4 years... way to go for a system which hopes to stay around for a long time huh?
We've currently mined 85.70% of BTC, what will happen when there'll be no more interest to mine it?

On this regard, GRIN's system is safer and more decentralization-friendly.

Correct, by the time those that would want to destroy such a system get to the point where they fear it, it will have become massive enough to make that task unpractical (hopefully). Guessing the future is hard enough when dealing with economics let alone fear indexes of global threats.

One worry arises in my head:

'Grin was launched without a premine, ICO, or founders rewards and relies on donations to support the long-term development of the project.'

So, there is a risk associated with a lack of interest at a point that could jeopardise the whole project?

What am I missing?

Also, 'early holders advantage and makes it fairer for late adopters' what I read is: 'Join later and make more' which could combat the above and maybe hope people will donate and not only profit? Greed goes a long way though  

Monero was launched the same way and a large majority of mining pools donate to a Dev fund and there is a community funding system that anyone can make proposals to.

@AlecMe. Can you explain join later and make more?

Grin's monetary supply discourages early whales that cause an influence on the supply. It also encourages wider distribution and a more stable price.

How would joining later, make more occur? If it would, it would be occuring under a stable price and less influential whales.

By using the terms "make more" i think he is referring to increasing profits by purchasing the coin cheaper down the road and therefore when the price rises he will have made more for the same initial investment.

[1713871467]

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[1713871467]

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[Viper1]

They don't cause centralization.

Really? So you think that one person/group controlling 1000s of mining machines where they can achieve more than half the hash rate isn't centralization?

nope.

I see.. Well either you're not all that bright since that's exactly why Satoshi designed what he did, or you have an ulterior motive for spreading that fallacy. Either way, not like it really matters since it's all going to end up being centralized so good luck to you.

I am far more concerned with a bad actor that controls asics than a botnet owner trying to 51%. You see the botnet owner will not kill his income while whoever can afford the asic ranch may very well be an incentivized adversary. You can figure out the rest yourself unless you are the dullard you think i am.

You said a botnet having 50%+ wasn't centralization. Now you're twisting it into what they'd actually do with that centralized control so you can try and "win" an argument that you just lost with that tactic. We can certainly have a discussion about what someone might do with centralized control. But that's different than the fact that they have it.

[Hueristic]

They don't cause centralization.

Really? So you think that one person/group controlling 1000s of mining machines where they can achieve more than half the hash rate isn't centralization?

nope.

I see.. Well either you're not all that bright since that's exactly why Satoshi designed what he did, or you have an ulterior motive for spreading that fallacy. Either way, not like it really matters since it's all going to end up being centralized so good luck to you.

I am far more concerned with a bad actor that controls asics than a botnet owner trying to 51%. You see the botnet owner will not kill his income while whoever can afford the asic ranch may very well be an incentivized adversary. You can figure out the rest yourself unless you are the dullard you think i am.

You said a botnet having 50%+ wasn't centralization. Now you're twisting it into what they'd actually do with that centralized control so you can try and "win" an argument that you just lost with that tactic. We can certainly have a discussion about what someone might do with centralized control. But that's different than the fact that they have it.

I do not believe a botnet will ever have a large enough control of the hash but playing devils advocate i stated they were not incentivized to make an attack if they could even get in that position.It's far more likely a pool will achieve the necessary hash than a botnet ever attacking. Botnets comprise very small hash potential (most of the machines are not high hashing machines). They just control alot of them. But there is alot of latency in there as well as it is much more decentralized than most pools as people tend to join pools with low latency.
You should ask the big miners the game theory behind it as i do not claim to be an expert. I am only stating that i believe you have no clue what you are talking about.
And it sounds to me like your just trying to create Fud.

[Viper1]

i stated they were not incentivized to make an attack if they could even get in that position.

The most obvious one would be to take out your competition which is a pretty big incentive and is the sort of thing that happens all the time when control/power comes into play for those that seek it.

And it sounds to me like your just trying to create Fud.

Why is it when people don't like what someone is saying, they automatically turn to claiming it's "FUD". You simply made a statement that I found fault with and was pointing that out. Nothing more.

[Hueristic]

i stated they were not incentivized to make an attack if they could even get in that position.

The most obvious one would be to take out your competition which is a pretty big incentive and is the sort of thing that happens all the time when control/power comes into play for those that seek it.

And it sounds to me like your just trying to create Fud.

Why is it when people don't like what someone is saying, they automatically turn to claiming it's "FUD". You simply made a statement that I found fault with and was pointing that out. Nothing more.

FYI BitcoinEXpress already tried this FUD attack and was unable to follow through with his botnet. I would be more worried of your SV getting 51'd.

[Viper1]

i stated they were not incentivized to make an attack if they could even get in that position.

The most obvious one would be to take out your competition which is a pretty big incentive and is the sort of thing that happens all the time when control/power comes into play for those that seek it.

And it sounds to me like your just trying to create Fud.

Why is it when people don't like what someone is saying, they automatically turn to claiming it's "FUD". You simply made a statement that I found fault with and was pointing that out. Nothing more.

FYI BitcoinEXpress already tried this FUD attack and was unable to follow through with his botnet. I would be more worried of your SV getting 51'd.

Did he? Well he's also the guy that said he would attack Monero and then didn't right? So...... Yeah...

What do you mean "my SV"? You think I support that cause I've posted in there? I think my more recent comment in there sort of shows I don't.

I'd be worried about "all" coins. Bitcoin Cash was attacked and they did a 51% double spend on it rewriting the ledger that isn't supposed to be rewritten. Course they "justified" it.. Didn't ETH do the same thing? And there was another coin that had the same sort of thing didn't they? vertcoin or via or something? These things have already happened and so someone just has to have a good enough reason and they can do it to any coin.

But sure. If you can't argue the issues then say FUD. Sort of says it all right there.

[Hueristic]

i stated they were not incentivized to make an attack if they could even get in that position.

The most obvious one would be to take out your competition which is a pretty big incentive and is the sort of thing that happens all the time when control/power comes into play for those that seek it.

And it sounds to me like your just trying to create Fud.

Why is it when people don't like what someone is saying, they automatically turn to claiming it's "FUD". You simply made a statement that I found fault with and was pointing that out. Nothing more.

FYI BitcoinEXpress already tried this FUD attack and was unable to follow through with his botnet. I would be more worried of your SV getting 51'd.

Did he? Well he's also the guy that said he would attack Monero and then didn't right? So...... Yeah...

What do you mean "my SV"? You think I support that cause I've posted in there? I think my more recent comment in there sort of shows I don't.

I'd be worried about "all" coins. Bitcoin Cash was attacked and they did a 51% double spend on it rewriting the ledger that isn't supposed to be rewritten. Course they "justified" it.. Didn't ETH do the same thing? And there was another coin that had the same sort of thing didn't they? vertcoin or via or something? These things have already happened and so someone just has to have a good enough reason and they can do it to any coin.

But sure. If you can't argue the issues then say FUD. Sort of says it all right there.

There really is nothing to argue, show me a botnet with the capabilities to 0wn monero's chain.   Please.

I only argued that even if one exists that it has no incentive but you cannot even show one does let alone that it is incentivized to. Not to mention the fact that there are by your own admission botnets that are actively protecting the security of the chain, do you think they would magically disappear when this fantasy attack vector appears?

And FYI BCX was a verified Botnet operator that took down Polo during his FUD campaign and yes he failed in his chain attack.

[Neo-Geo]

I wonder how decentralized Grin will be once ASICs hit this network. I feel that Innosilicon's ASICs are strategically priced to insure that 'ROI = never' and fear that Innsolicon will be mostly solo mining Grin, as planned (Innosilicon to be their own best customer in employing their ASICs, see Bitmain). Lets glimpse how distributed Grin will be in a post-ASIC era.
http://www.strawpoll.me/18860003

If ASICs really are a must, perhaps a better solution of distribution would be a fixed and locked split of:
C31/C32+ for ASICs = 50% block reward
C29 for GPUs with biannual forks (tweak algo to brick ASICs/FPGAs) = 50% block reward

[tbct_mt2]

The Grincoin price has fallen over months, and now it stays around 10k satoshis. As theymos predicted at very weeks after Grincoin born, its price fell within its first year, and now we see Grincoin has been unsignificantly fluctuated about 10k satoshis. The range of price is good enough for accumulators, IMO.

What do you think about the temporary price of Grin coin and what do you think about future rally and growth of Grincoin?

[RivAngE]

The Grincoin price has fallen over months, and now it stays around 10k satoshis. As theymos predicted at very weeks after Grincoin born, its price fell within its first year, and now we see Grincoin has been unsignificantly fluctuated about 10k satoshis. The range of price is good enough for accumulators, IMO.

What do you think about the temporary price of Grin coin and what do you think about future rally and growth of Grincoin?

I believe it will all depend on how famous GRIN can get.
With the inflation being forever stable, we can't hope for the inflation to fall low enough to reach a level which can be supported by the community's interest level.

[tbct_mt2]

I believe it will all depend on how famous GRIN can get.
With the inflation being forever stable, we can't hope for the inflation to fall low enough to reach a level which can be supported by the community's interest level.

Inflation can be changed by developers as what we see from Stellar with their annoucement released recent days. Amazingly, let's look at Stellar price today. It has been pumped more than 10 percent temporarily. At its peak today, its price in realilty increased more than 13 percent.

Despite the unknown plan (or no plan at all) on inflation of Grincoin team, I think price is below 10k satoshis is very good to accumulate Grincoin.

[Viper1]

Is there a windows compiled cpu miner available for Grin?

[RivAngE]

I believe it will all depend on how famous GRIN can get.
With the inflation being forever stable, we can't hope for the inflation to fall low enough to reach a level which can be supported by the community's interest level.

Inflation can be changed by developers as what we see from Stellar with their annoucement released recent days. Amazingly, let's look at Stellar price today. It has been pumped more than 10 percent temporarily. At its peak today, its price in realilty increased more than 13 percent.

Despite the unknown plan (or no plan at all) on inflation of Grincoin team, I think price is below 10k satoshis is very good to accumulate Grincoin.

Right, and to be honest I'm surprised there hasn't been any formal change request to reduce the inflation which could be voted for and be implemented in the next blockchain update (aka fork) if it'd be voted.
Just the existence of this request would send the price flying!

[tromp]

Right, and to be honest I'm surprised there hasn't been any formal change request to reduce the inflation which could be voted for and be implemented in the next blockchain update (aka fork) if it'd be voted.

If it ain't 1 per second forever, then it ain't Grin...

[RivAngE]

Right, and to be honest I'm surprised there hasn't been any formal change request to reduce the inflation which could be voted for and be implemented in the next blockchain update (aka fork) if it'd be voted.

If it ain't 1 per second forever, then it ain't Grin...

If they grind down the block rewards even a little bit, I'll be fine with GRIND too!

That was a terrible joke attempt, wasn't it? 

[bbc.reporter]

Right, and to be honest I'm surprised there hasn't been any formal change request to reduce the inflation which could be voted for and be implemented in the next blockchain update (aka fork) if it'd be voted.

If it ain't 1 per second forever, then it ain't Grin...

I support 1 per second and infinite emission forever. Moon math must be fixed and eliminated. Bitcoin's flaws should not be copied. Go to Beam for moon math.

[Texacha]

Go to Beam for moon math.

Actually most of people will. (or already did)

[vlom]

Go to Beam for moon math.

Actually most of people will. (or already did)

I lost interest in almost all acltcoins. the only one that I still support is grin. although i dont do much to support it.
i would use a grin Sig. Is anybody able to create one?

[ArMaTuRa]

Go to Beam for moon math.

Actually most of people will. (or already did)

I lost interest in almost all acltcoins. the only one that I still support is grin. although i dont do much to support it.
i would use a grin Sig. Is anybody able to create one?

This Grin coin really deserves attention. I still really like Monero. I think that anonymous cryptocurrency has a future!

[1207Lmcin]

Go to Beam for moon math.

Actually most of people will. (or already did)

I lost interest in almost all acltcoins. the only one that I still support is grin. although i dont do much to support it.
i would use a grin Sig. Is anybody able to create one?

This Grin coin really deserves attention. I still really like Monero. I think that anonymous cryptocurrency has a future!

We are all here discussing this. And you and I both understand that anonymity is absolutely essential. I still look forward to the next steps from Grin.