Bitcoin Forum
June 26, 2019, 07:03:01 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Which wallet still support sending bitcoin with 0 fee?  (Read 611 times)
rutanguo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 5
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 29, 2018, 05:48:57 PM
 #1

Hi. I need a wallet that support sending bitcoin with 0 fee. I tried electrum but i get that server can send transaction with 0 fee, i tried blockchain info but say is needed minimum 1sat/byte fee.

Anyone know any wallet that still support 0 fee?
Bitcoin Poker 3.0
The Largest Bitcoin Poker Site
Bad Beat Jackpot Available
No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games And Tournaments
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1561532581
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1561532581

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1561532581
Reply with quote  #2

1561532581
Report to moderator
darosior
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 170
Merit: 185



View Profile WWW
December 29, 2018, 06:01:17 PM
 #2

Hi,

Even with 1sat/B, your transaction would not even be relayed by most of the nodes, what do you try to achieve ?
https://p2sh.info/dashboard/db/fee-estimation?orgId=1&from=now-7d&to=now

Github profile ~ Crypto Lyon (french community)  ~ GPG key fingerprint : E13F C145 CD3F 430 ~ LN public key : 03678b4f041fbfbeebcafc076469df75decf81da20a53bd490172e83ce532df1fa
Tutorials/posts : Address from private keyBitcoin smart contracts ~ Setup a Bitcoin node ~ Raw P2PKH transaction in Python ~ P2SH ~ 51% attack
AdolfinWolf
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 924


One should always be drunk.That's all that matters


View Profile
December 29, 2018, 06:12:30 PM
Last edit: December 29, 2018, 06:28:50 PM by AdolfinWolf
Merited by Jet Cash (2)
 #3

Hi. I need a wallet that support sending bitcoin with 0 fee. I tried electrum but i get that server can send transaction with 0 fee, i tried blockchain info but say is needed minimum 1sat/byte fee.

Anyone know any wallet that still support 0 fee?
I think i’ve read somewhere that you can use Bitcoin core with
Code:
-minrelaytxfee
and
Code:
-mintxfee
set to 0? (Or 0.00000001)That should allow the broadcasting of a transaction with little to no fees at all.

https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/48235/what-is-the-minrelaytxfee

EDIT: This probably is no longer possible as LoyceV suggests?

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 4149


Self-made Legendary outside Meta!


View Profile WWW
December 29, 2018, 06:13:36 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), darosior (1)
 #4

I need a wallet that support sending bitcoin with 0 fee.
Older wallets can do this, but the current Bitcoin network doesn't accept it.

Even with 1sat/B, your transaction would not even be relayed by most of the nodes
Transactions with 1 sat/byte fee confirm fast most of the time.

If you want to pay less fee, this may help you in the future:
Default fees are proposed to be lowered in Bitcoin 0.18.0

Basically, the minimum will drop from 1sat/vbyte to 0.2sat/vbyte.

0.18.0 is scheduled for release in March 2019, which assumes nothing delays the release. And it may take time for the full effects be felt on the network, as miners may still refuse transactions less than 1sat/vbyte for a while (until a large enough backlog of < 1sat/vbyte transactions develops, I should imagine). Maybe this time next year we could be celebrating even cheaper fees Cheesy

Can you explain what exactly you're trying to accomplish?

ETFbitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680
Merit: 1813

Use SegWit and enjoy lower fees.


View Profile WWW
December 29, 2018, 08:53:21 PM
 #5

EDIT: This probably is no longer possible as LoyceV suggests?

It's true, in fact AFAIK it's not possible since Core 0.11 releases which set default minrelaytxfee to 0.00001BTC (aka 1 sat/byte)

I need a wallet that support sending bitcoin with 0 fee.
Older wallets can do this, but the current Bitcoin network doesn't accept it.

But it's still valid transaction if it's included on block. So it's possible if you directly connect to miner/pool nodes and it's configured to accept transaction with 0 fee, even though it's not realistic scenario.


Pmalek
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1072



View Profile
December 29, 2018, 09:29:40 PM
 #6

Not exactly sure what you are trying to do but a miner will have no incentive to include your 0 fee transaction to the block. As long as there are transactions with higher fees (and there always will be) your transaction will unlikely be included or will take forever to do so.
Unless you are the miner and you are trying to include your own transaction without a fee, is that what you are trying to do? I think that is possible but not sure how to do it.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████

███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
buwaytress
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 1022
Merit: 906


I bit, therefore I am


View Profile
December 30, 2018, 09:56:09 AM
 #7

There still appear to be zero-fee transactions if you check even past 24 hours, there were 2 transactions but as Pmalek says above, probably just miners including their own transactions in their blocks.

Surprised myself to be honest, if I recall last I looked, still scores of 0-fees a day even if the total has been going down ever since I first started checking in late 2016.

Myself liked to do 0-fee txs, just for fun. I think I even have an Electrum installation from 2.x that allowed it, but really, there is hardly a need when 1 sat/byte confirms quickly and hardly costs anything especially with Segwit. Once Lightning gets underway, we won't even be thinking of fees.

jackg
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1265


https://bit.ly/2FR9nyn - free python tutorials


View Profile
December 30, 2018, 10:11:00 AM
 #8

Do transactions not expire from the mempool then if 0 sat per byre fees aren't accepted. I'd have fun sending with 0 sat per byte fee although 200 SATs isn't much...

If my wallet gets made, I'll be the irresponsible one and put 0 sat per byte fee limit on the software config so I can have cheap transactions (then do one of my strategies when it doesn't confirm to unlock the funds) - it'll probably get blocked by normal Bitcoin nodes anyway if I do too much in adjusting the protocols Wink.

Miners mining 0 sat per byte fees is scamming if they're from a pool. I don't know why I didnt make one Grin.

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 4149


Self-made Legendary outside Meta!


View Profile WWW
December 30, 2018, 10:21:09 AM
 #9

Myself liked to do 0-fee txs, just for fun.
I remember the days when an input had to have "medium priority" to be able to add other inputs up to 1 kB in a zero-fee transaction. It's too bad the concept of "coin days destroyed" was bandoned in favour of higher fees. It was a good feature, as it rewarded using older funds, while discouraging rapid (spam) transactions.
I gave up on it before it was abandoned, after some of my transactions got stuck for 2 weeks and I had to double spend them to get them confirmed.

Theb
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 398



View Profile
December 30, 2018, 08:17:55 PM
 #10

If you really want to save on transaction costs you can try to use hybrid wallets that have an off-chain transfer within their system such as Coinbase, there is no transaction cost or any network fees involve and the BTC transfer are always instant. The only catch is your recipient must also have the same wallet as yours which in this case should also be a Coinbase wallet address. These off-chain transfers come in handy especially when you don't want any network fees involve.

FORTUNEJACK
      ▄▄███████▄▄
   ▄████▀▀ ▄ ██████▄
  ████ ▄▄███ ████████
 █████▌▐███▌ ▀▄ ▀█████
███████▄██▀▀▀▀▄████████
█████▀▄▄▄▄█████████████
████▄▄▄▄ █████████████
 ██████▌ ███▀████████
  ███████▄▀▄████████
   ▀█████▀▀███████▀
      ▀▀██████▀▀
         
         █
...FortuneJack.com                                             
...THE BIGGEST BITCOIN GAMBLING SITE
       ▄▄█████████▄▄
    ▄█████████████████▄
  ▄█████████████████████▄
 ▄██
█████████▀███████████▄
██████████▀   ▀██████████
█████████▀       ▀█████████
████████           ████████
████████▄   ▄ ▄   ▄████████
██████████▀   ▀██████████
 ▀██
█████████████████████▀
  ▀██
███████████████████▀
    ▀█████████████████▀
       ▀▀█████████▀▀
#JACKMATE
WIN 1 BTC
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████▀█████▀██████████
███████▀░░▀░░░░░▀░░▀███████
██████▌░░░░░░░░░░░░░▐██████
██████░░░░██░░░██░░░░██████
█████▌░░░░▀▀░░░▀▀░░░░▐█████
██████▄░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░▄██████
████████▄▄███████▄▄████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
▀█████████████████████████▀
pooya87
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1680
Merit: 1712



View Profile
December 31, 2018, 05:11:17 AM
 #11

you can still create a transaction with 0 fee with all the wallets as long as you are not using their user interfaces because that is where the blocking takes place. for example in Electrum the wallet doesn't allow you to set the fee to zero in the interface but you can still make an unsigned transaction with 0 fee using any additional method and then sign it using Electrum. then you again will be stuck in broadcasting it because the "servers" reject your tx.

one way of doing it is to preview your tx before signing it, then copying the hex and editing the amount field to include the fee in it (increase it +fee) and then giving it back to electrum to sign. of course you mustn't do it without knowing what you are doing or you may end up messing things up.

HeRetiK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1062


the forkings will continue until morale improves


View Profile
December 31, 2018, 04:08:59 PM
 #12

one way of doing it is to preview your tx before signing it, then copying the hex and editing the amount field to include the fee in it (increase it +fee) and then giving it back to electrum to sign. of course you mustn't do it without knowing what you are doing or you may end up messing things up.

Do not manually create or manipulate Bitcoin transactions unless you absolutely know what you are doing (and think twice even then).

You don't want to end up as the guy spending 10 BTC in mining fees on a zero BTC transaction...

jackg
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1265


https://bit.ly/2FR9nyn - free python tutorials


View Profile
December 31, 2018, 04:51:40 PM
 #13

one way of doing it is to preview your tx before signing it, then copying the hex and editing the amount field to include the fee in it (increase it +fee) and then giving it back to electrum to sign. of course you mustn't do it without knowing what you are doing or you may end up messing things up.

Do not manually create or manipulate Bitcoin transactions unless you absolutely know what you are doing (and think twice even then).

You don't want to end up as the guy spending 10 BTC in mining fees on a zero BTC transaction...

Mining fees are not stated on transactions.
There's the input data and the output data that is necessary and only the output says the specific amount afaik.

P.s it was 15btc Grin
If you import a transaction it goes into the preview window, you should be running transactions that way instead to make it more secure and know exactly what you're doing a bit better.

buwaytress
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 1022
Merit: 906


I bit, therefore I am


View Profile
December 31, 2018, 05:58:36 PM
 #14

Myself liked to do 0-fee txs, just for fun.
I remember the days when an input had to have "medium priority" to be able to add other inputs up to 1 kB in a zero-fee transaction. It's too bad the concept of "coin days destroyed" was bandoned in favour of higher fees. It was a good feature, as it rewarded using older funds, while discouraging rapid (spam) transactions.
I gave up on it before it was abandoned, after some of my transactions got stuck for 2 weeks and I had to double spend them to get them confirmed.

I entered Bitcoin just at the tail end of that... still remember priority values on blockchain.info. I too thought the idea of older coins having some weight in priority was a good thing, but was never able to enjoy it myself. All coins acquired were ever fairly new. Suppose scaling upgrades mean spammers have to get ever more creative now.

I believe the antpool "acceleration" submitter still works even for 0-fee tx now, so in the unlikely event someone inadvertently managed to make such a tx, there's still that one avenue for confirmation.

HeRetiK
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 1062


the forkings will continue until morale improves


View Profile
December 31, 2018, 06:04:31 PM
 #15

Do not manually create or manipulate Bitcoin transactions unless you absolutely know what you are doing (and think twice even then).

You don't want to end up as the guy spending 10 BTC in mining fees on a zero BTC transaction...

Mining fees are not stated on transactions.
There's the input data and the output data that is necessary and only the output says the specific amount afaik.

P.s it was 15btc Grin
If you import a transaction it goes into the preview window, you should be running transactions that way instead to make it more secure and know exactly what you're doing a bit better.

To be more precise, the transaction fee is implicitly stated -- it's the difference between the sum of all inputs and the sum of all outputs Smiley Still easy to mess up though

Good point about using Electrum's preview window!



I believe the antpool "acceleration" submitter still works even for 0-fee tx now, so in the unlikely event someone inadvertently managed to make such a tx, there's still that one avenue for confirmation.

Is Antpool's accelerator free though? The only free transaction accelerator I'm aware of that actually is working is the one from ViaBTC and that one requires a minimum transaction fee.

jackg
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1265


https://bit.ly/2FR9nyn - free python tutorials


View Profile
December 31, 2018, 06:12:31 PM
 #16

Is Antpool's accelerator free though? The only free transaction accelerator I'm aware of that actually is working is the one from ViaBTC and that one requires a minimum transaction fee.

No and it also looked broken yesterday. It wouldn't work for me when I wanted to see what the fee would he to push something through.

It's also worth noting that once you sign a zero fee transaction in electrum. No one else will broadcast it unless you do a nonstandard transaction on Bitcoin core which isn't something to do lightly.

You can double spend a no fee transaction also. You guys are forgetting that a node won't broadcast a transaction that is a double spend but if it's a zero fee transaction most nodes don't accept it so it can be double spent in the mempool as long as you send it to a node that accepts it. Only one transaction will ultimately be added to a block though.

buwaytress
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 1022
Merit: 906


I bit, therefore I am


View Profile
January 01, 2019, 11:03:57 AM
 #17

I believe the antpool "acceleration" submitter still works even for 0-fee tx now, so in the unlikely event someone inadvertently managed to make such a tx, there's still that one avenue for confirmation.

Is Antpool's accelerator free though? The only free transaction accelerator I'm aware of that actually is working is the one from ViaBTC and that one requires a minimum transaction fee.

It's always been free, at least from when I knew about it in 2017. I seem to recall there being some conditions, if I'm not mistaken, it shouldn't be a double spend, but there wasn't a min fee as I used it myself several times to push txs for people getting stuck for days/weeks, including 0-fee ones.

Is Antpool's accelerator free though? The only free transaction accelerator I'm aware of that actually is working is the one from ViaBTC and that one requires a minimum transaction fee.

No and it also looked broken yesterday. It wouldn't work for me when I wanted to see what the fee would he to push something through.

It's also worth noting that once you sign a zero fee transaction in electrum. No one else will broadcast it unless you do a nonstandard transaction on Bitcoin core which isn't something to do lightly.

You can double spend a no fee transaction also. You guys are forgetting that a node won't broadcast a transaction that is a double spend but if it's a zero fee transaction most nodes don't accept it so it can be double spent in the mempool as long as you send it to a node that accepts it. Only one transaction will ultimately be added to a block though.

Checking it now and it doesn't seem to have changed from when I last remember using. Still free, and able to accept even 2/3 txs. Just submitted a couple of txs and it got accepted for "acceleration". They'll probably naturally get confirmed for others long before antpool though. They've switched off quite a bit of their rigs recently haven't they?

Will try and remember to do a 1 sat/byte tx during next spike and see if antpool will confirm it... and update. Likely to be a few weeks til another mempool spike happens.

Artemis3
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 520


★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!


View Profile WWW
January 01, 2019, 04:14:35 PM
 #18

Even with 1sat/B, your transaction would not even be relayed by most of the nodes, what do you try to achieve ?

Not true, in the last 6 months I did nearly all my transactions at 1sat/B and they usually confirm in about 1 hour or less.

What you should NOT do is use zero, that won't move at all. I remember some people on IRC saying its possible to use half satoshi per byte or so tho. But if you use "twice" of that (ie. 2sat/B) it often gets processed by the next block! (10 mins); or sometimes by 2~4  blocks, but you get the idea...

Electrum allows the "replace by fee" option in case you get desperate and something gets stuck for weeks, probably other wallets allow this too. It lets you increase the tx fee to an already broadcasted transaction, so you can spend some more satoshis to speed it up yourself.

jackg
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1265


https://bit.ly/2FR9nyn - free python tutorials


View Profile
January 01, 2019, 05:21:34 PM
 #19

Even with 1sat/B, your transaction would not even be relayed by most of the nodes, what do you try to achieve ?

Not true, in the last 6 months I did nearly all my transactions at 1sat/B and they usually confirm in about 1 hour or less.

What you should NOT do is use zero, that won't move at all. I remember some people on IRC saying its possible to use half satoshi per byte or so tho. But if you use "twice" of that (ie. 2sat/B) it often gets processed by the next block! (10 mins); or sometimes by 2~4  blocks, but you get the idea...

Electrum allows the "replace by fee" option in case you get desperate and something gets stuck for weeks, probably other wallets allow this too. It lets you increase the tx fee to an already broadcasted transaction, so you can spend some more satoshis to speed it up yourself.

Does rbf require your input to be used with a smaller output?

I'd be interested in trying to broadcast a 0 fee transaction but I'll have to nail the handshaking process and automate it because I reckon a lot of nodes will reject it.
0.1 sat/byte fee would be interesting too to see what happens,that's about 20 sats for a standard transaction then. It would be nice to see low fees again soon though.

BitCryptex
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 616
Merit: 779


Write @BitCryptex or quote my post to notify me


View Profile WWW
January 01, 2019, 07:26:55 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2019, 07:38:53 PM by BitCryptex
Merited by joniboini (1)
 #20

0.1 sat/byte fee would be interesting too to see what happens,that's about 20 sats for a standard transaction then. It would be nice to see low fees again soon though.

Currently, Bitcoin Core does not allow users to relay transactions with fee lower than 1 sat/b. Fortunately, this is going to change in the next release of Bitcoin Core (0.18.0). Here you can find more information.

Does rbf require your input to be used with a smaller output?

There should be the same inputs and outputs with no change to the amount of coins sent + a new input which will be spent on the increased fee and an extra output if there are any coins left from the new input. However, there are different variants of RBF.

Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!