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Author Topic: Why we want btc etf and bakkt?  (Read 617 times)
Tytanowy Janusz
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December 30, 2018, 09:35:46 AM
Last edit: March 20, 2019, 10:56:19 AM by Tytanowy Janusz
Merited by dbshck (4), LoyceV (2), Halab (2), xandry (1)
 #1

Crypto is new technology. Our tokens are a dozen times better than stocks, contracts etc. Why we are struggling with implementing new technology into old technology hoping that old technology influencers will let us in just because they are old guys with money. Tokens are new technology.

I made this topic to start conversation about showing middle finger to old technology with old guys on board. We need them only for volume. We don't need to hear all the time "we will let your new technology to be trade on our old technology platform by old technology assets but not today ... maybe tomorrow... maybe next year"

What you think?
If fund managing cryptocurrencies, or big crypto exchange would implement facebook token - token like tether but backed not by USD but by facebook shares. We will be able to invest in facebook on binance using eth/bitcoin/usdt or even $ in the future. What about tokenizing whole NYSE, German DAX, NIKKEI, everything ... even polish WIG (all shares, indeks, materials etc). Stock by stock. We will be able to invest in every asset by buying simple token on crypto exchange by universal currency - bitcoin.

Personally i would love that. My broker in my country allowed me to invest only in regional shares. To invest in foreign asset i have to create special account with other broker with huge fees what makes it unprofitable to invest (not saying a word about daytrading). I think it would help crypto hundred times better than pushing new technology into old technology guys hoping that they will invest into new technology using old technology assets... its stupid. Let them invest in old technology assets by our new technology.

Lets create here possibility for everyone to trade on any asset. That will make not only crypto enthusiast to invest on crypto exchanges but also regular investors willing to invest in foreign shares, materials with lower fees. That will make whales from old technology came to us and say "teach us this new technology ... we are ONLY old guys with money"

Just imagine your portfolio based on:
Etherum, bitcoin, US facebook, google, amazon /German BMW and Mercedess / Russia Gasprom / gold, silver / Japaniese Toyota. Everything you will be able to buy on binance and store on trezor/ledger.

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December 30, 2018, 01:15:41 PM
 #2

You have great thinking about turning these two markets into one. I confront with people that want BTC ETF (personally I don't as I hope to see the value of BTC increasing due to mass crypto adoption) because I believe that it will make the transmission and open crypto markets to more investors. I don't agree that the already established tokenization system is better/perfect or whatever; there are many flaws in it that discourage people to be involved in it.

I am in favor of giving the chance to anyone to trade any asset they like and make a profit from investments as right now stocks/bonds/ contracts etc. are not available for everyone.

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December 30, 2018, 01:33:34 PM
 #3

Because they will make bitcoin more "legit". By legit I mean at least make it look like a more professional investing option.

Right now even tough you and me know that bitcoin is a safe investment method, there are a lot of 35+ year olds who do not really grasp the innovation side of things and want to invest into things that are more secure, right now with the upcoming BAKKT and ETF deals we are going to go into the same root that gold and silver has and that would only make things better for all of us by involving a lot more people into crypto space.

This way we can gather more money and the volume would rise increasing the demand which would effect the price positively. This is all we care about, the price going up. If the price goes up like we assume, it will have great affects on all of us.

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December 30, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
 #4

I am indeed impressed by your imagination capability. What you are suggesting is to convert the entire stock market game in a tokenized environment. But I am afraid to say that it's not going to happen, ever! Sorry to sound negative but that's the reality. The fact is, no matter how much noise we make to see bitcoin as a global universal currency, the network is simply not capable to handle that! We won't ever see any crypto currency will become the main currency for any country, let alone for the world. No matter how advance technology we bring in, non-government issued cryptos will never make it to that level you are thinking!

I am not a pessimist and I want bitcoin to be recognized at a global level. But no government will ever let that happen! Being a realistic person I can say that, we will see virtual version of USD, EUR, JPY or any other fiat very soon which can be transacted through online wallets without having to handle cash! But cryptocurrency? Not an option at global level! 

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December 30, 2018, 02:53:20 PM
 #5

Crypto is new technology. Our tokens are dozen times better than stocks, contracts etc. Why we are struggling with implementing new technology into old technology hoping that old technology influencers will let us in just because they are old guys with money. Tokens are new technology.

I made this topic to start conversation about showing middle finger to old technology with old guys on board. We need them only for volume. We dont need to hear all the time "we will let your new technology to be trade on our old technology platworm by old technology assets but not today ... maybe tomorrow... maybe next year"

What you think?
If fund managing cryptocurrencies, or big crypto exchange would implement facebook token - token like tether but backed not by USD but by facebook shares. We will be able to invest in facebook on binance using eth/bitcoin/usdt or even $ in future. What about tokenizing whole NYSE, german DAX, NIKKEI, everything ... even polish WIG (all stocks, indeks, materials etc). Stock by stock. We will be able to invest in every asset by buying simple token on crypto exchange by univesal currency - bitcoin.

Personally i would love that. My broker in my country allowes me to invest only in regional stocks. To invest in foreing asset i have to create special account with other broker with huge fees what makes it unprofitable to invest (not saying a word about daytrading). I think it would help crypto houndred times better than pushing new technology into old technology guys hoping that they will invest into new technology using old technology assets... its stupid. Let them invest in old technology assets by our new technology.

Lets create here possibility for everyone to trade on any asset. That will make not only crypto enthusiast to invest on crypto exchanges but also regular investors willing to invest in foreing stocks, mateials with lower fees. That will make whales from old technology came to us and say "teach us this new technology ... we are ONLY old guys with money"

Just imagine your porfolio based on:
Etherum, bitcoin, US facebook, google, amazon /German BMW and Mercedess / Russia Gasprom / gold, silver / Japaniese Toyota. Everything you will be able to buy on binance and store on trezor/ledger.

Many people and investors that are here in the market want it because they know that it would really help Bitcoin to grown and be hyped all around the world.

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December 30, 2018, 02:59:23 PM
 #6

Truthfully we don't need any of those things.  Bitcoin already hit 20k without an etf.  I thought the point of bitcoin was to be disconnected from traditional financial institutions.  I guess most new investors are just here for easy money and will support anything that will push the price up.




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December 30, 2018, 03:01:21 PM
 #7


But all these that we will be  imagining could just be a wishful thinking. Those old guys are not going to give up without a fight, they  may even  be winning if people in crypto  starts to  listen to every fud they  post here. They could also rule this market when regulations  are going to be tighter for us.

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December 30, 2018, 03:24:00 PM
 #8

I think what OP trying to express is why can’t we invest on stocks the way invest in crypto’s, traditional stock maybe hard to blend or to make it tokenized everything due to most stock investors are conservative and they want real assets or maybe they don’t fully understand the nature of crypto yet. Why we need institutional investors? Because simply these markets are not just build for new breed of investors but also for the classic ones.

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Tytanowy Janusz
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December 30, 2018, 04:30:58 PM
Last edit: December 30, 2018, 05:14:01 PM by Tytanowy Janusz
 #9

I am indeed impressed by your imagination capability. What you are suggesting is to convert the entire stock market game in a tokenized environment. But I am afraid to say that it's not going to happen, ever! Sorry to sound negative but that's the reality. The fact is, no matter how much noise we make to see bitcoin as a global universal currency, the network is simply not capable to handle that! We won't ever see any crypto currency will become the main currency for any country, let alone for the world. No matter how advance technology we bring in, non-government issued cryptos will never make it to that level you are thinking!

I am not a pessimist and I want bitcoin to be recognized at a global level. But no government will ever let that happen! Being a realistic person I can say that, we will see virtual version of USD, EUR, JPY or any other fiat very soon which can be transacted through online wallets without having to handle cash! But cryptocurrency? Not an option at global level!  


Main currency of any country? What are you talking about. Im talking about tokenizing tradictional assets by creating tokens backed by traditional asset tradable on every crypto exchange (where main curency is bitcoin currently, but stable coins are awaible too for those scared of bitcoin). Not making bitcoin national currency of any country. Did you even read my post?




But all these that we will be  imagining could just be a wishful thinking. Those old guys are not going to give up without a fight, they  may even  be winning if people in crypto  starts to  listen to every fud they  post here. They could also rule this market when regulations  are going to be tighter for us.

We dont need their aproof for that. Its like bitcoin ETF on traditional stock market. Does satoshi approve that? No. Company will buy bitcoin on crypto exchange for every etf unit bought from them. We have paxos, theter, usdc, TUSD. All are tokens backed by USD. Did US government aproved that? No. Company open USD deposits and TUSD withdrawals for every usd deposited. Thats all. We only need company that will do the same thing with stocks. Will buy on stock market facebook share(f.e.) for every facebook token bought from them. Screw governments and old guys in suits. With tokenized stocks, materials from all around the world they will come to Us on knees. Thats the spirit of crypto. Asking government for permision is oposit of satoshi vision. Crypto was ment to destroy traditional monetary monopolized by few


Truthfully we don't need any of those things.  Bitcoin already hit 20k without an etf.  I thought the point of bitcoin was to be disconnected from traditional financial institutions.  I guess most new investors are just here for easy money and will support anything that will push the price up.
I'm not talking this in perspective of bitcoin price grow. Im talking this in perspective of crypto hitting mass adoption. ETF and BAKKT will help bitcoin price in short term. My idea will pump crypto market for next 100 years. Why? Because average invesotr willing to invest in foreign stocks will have option to invest in it by new asset type called "token" with smaller fees. He will create account on crypto exchange and close to facebook he will see company called Vechain where he might invest too. He will also see BNB token  that he will buy for sure to make his fees even smaller.

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December 30, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
 #10

We only want how bitcoin could have higher price again, it more important to make investor trust about bitcoin investment at the future, when bitcoin never could be on higher price many investor will left bitcoin.

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December 30, 2018, 05:06:36 PM
 #11

We only want how bitcoin could have higher price again, it more important to make investor trust about bitcoin investment at the future, when bitcoin never could be on higher price many investor will left bitcoin.

Is it a difference for bitcoin that speculation investor will leave bitcoin at 3k on loss or on 25k on profit? He is here not for technology. he is here for quick lambo. We dont need him ... we need people to start using bitcoin. To do that we need high volume and high marketcap on exchanges to stop massive pump and dumps - what scares average bitcoin users from using bitcoin - how to pay for coffe if tommorow ill be able to buy 2 coffes for that much of satoshis.

Big marketcap and high volume will stop bitcoin from massive pump and dumps because its so much harder to pump asset with huge buy/sell orders on order book made by institutional investors.

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December 30, 2018, 08:36:06 PM
 #12

So basically you are looking to make derivatives again and let them be embedded on a platform for cryptocurrencies? I don't quite get the gist but it seems to me that you want to just have a platform wherein traditional stocks can be purchased by 'tokens,' and believe me, if there's a substantial volume for such, these 'old guys' would surely get their capitals working just to rake the profits waiting for them on a new market. I might be translating things negatively but knowing how the capitalist minds work, this is the first thing that springs to mind.

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December 30, 2018, 09:00:19 PM
 #13

So basically you are looking to make derivatives again and let them be embedded on a platform for cryptocurrencies? I don't quite get the gist but it seems to me that you want to just have a platform wherein traditional stocks can be purchased by 'tokens,' and believe me, if there's a substantial volume for such, these 'old guys' would surely get their capitals working just to rake the profits waiting for them on a new market. I might be translating things negatively but knowing how the capitalist minds work, this is the first thing that springs to mind.

Personally i'm in love how fast binance works and how good their interface is in comparision with my regional stock exchange. Also i'm not able to invest in foreing stocks and if so i need to pay huge fees. Thats why if ill be able to do it buying stocks tokens backed by shares itself with lower fees i would definetly do this. Do your broker support for example Malta stocks? I bet it doesnt. Tokenizing them by creating token like USDT but backed by specyfic stock sounds easy, unstopable, profitable and for sure will help crypto better than begging wall street for aproval to trade bitcoin on their exchange.

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December 30, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
 #14

We cannot change the fact that the current precious money is legalized by them and we do not live with our own rules. Lets imagine the opposite so instead of accepting cryptocurrency they decide that it is unlawful and boom!  Tongue
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December 30, 2018, 09:57:27 PM
 #15

Truthfully we don't need any of those things.  Bitcoin already hit 20k without an etf.  I thought the point of bitcoin was to be disconnected from traditional financial institutions.  I guess most new investors are just here for easy money and will support anything that will push the price up.
But we need new development with these great coins so we can assure a bright future, so for me we really need it not just to pump the price up but also to enjoy a new functions of this top coins. Many players are here to create big profit and they don’t even care about the technology of some coins and its usage.
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December 30, 2018, 10:19:08 PM
 #16

Great, and in other way, we can just say that with cryptocurrency,  there is adaptations of this great technology.

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December 30, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
 #17

Do your broker support for example Malta stocks? I bet it doesnt. Tokenizing them by creating token like USDT but backed by specyfic stock sounds easy, unstopable, profitable and for sure will help crypto better than begging wall street for aproval to trade bitcoin on their exchange.

It depends on where you live basically. I personally can invest in pretty much any stock/derivative market through my bank account. I think that's what makes an ETF very interesting on paper, because you don't have to wire money to an exchange anymore, and every joe with a decent sum of money can buy a share instantly. No silly verification process, no waiting times, no unsafe environment, etc.

In terms of the fees, sure they are higher than average depending on what asset you buy into, and they even charge a very small percentage annually over your total portfolio balance, but people don't see it as much of a proble. They have been buying into stocks and whatnot for years.

The only competitor in the game are services like Robinhood where people can trade for free, but you don't actually own anything there. For some people it might not matter and they are just interested in free trading, and others want to own the stocks in their portfolio giving them access to dividends, voting rights, etc.

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December 31, 2018, 02:12:20 AM
 #18

Truthfully we don't need any of those things.  Bitcoin already hit 20k without an etf.  I thought the point of bitcoin was to be disconnected from traditional financial institutions.  I guess most new investors are just here for easy money and will support anything that will push the price up.

I kind of agree with this, nowadays the investors only care about the price, they don't see the potential anymore, so whatever things that could make the price go up, then they will agree

It will be great to see the two market join into one but I don't think that will happen the governments won't allowed that things to happen, mixing the two things will make the economic become more complicated to handle

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December 31, 2018, 08:03:15 AM
 #19

I am indeed impressed by your imagination capability. What you are suggesting is to convert the entire stock market game in a tokenized environment. But I am afraid to say that it's not going to happen, ever! Sorry to sound negative but that's the reality. The fact is, no matter how much noise we make to see bitcoin as a global universal currency, the network is simply not capable to handle that! We won't ever see any crypto currency will become the main currency for any country, let alone for the world. No matter how advance technology we bring in, non-government issued cryptos will never make it to that level you are thinking!

I am not a pessimist and I want bitcoin to be recognized at a global level. But no government will ever let that happen! Being a realistic person I can say that, we will see virtual version of USD, EUR, JPY or any other fiat very soon which can be transacted through online wallets without having to handle cash! But cryptocurrency? Not an option at global level!  

Main currency of any country? What are you talking about. Im talking about tokenizing tradictional assets by creating tokens backed by traditional asset tradable on every crypto exchange (where main curency is bitcoin currently, but stable coins are awaible too for those scared of bitcoin). Not making bitcoin national currency of any country. Did you even read my post?


I indeed read your post but comprehended incorrectly, Sorry about that! What you are suggesting is already present in real world scenario, they are called mutual funds. You are proposing to bring that same concept in crypto eco-system. A pool of fund will be invested in traditional assets or crypto assets and the investors will receive a unit value corresponding to his/her investment value in form of token whose price will fluctuate based on the performance of the underlying assets. Is that what you mean? I believe I understood it correctly now!

 

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December 31, 2018, 11:35:38 AM
 #20

If fund managing cryptocurrencies, or big crypto exchange would implement facebook token - token like tether but backed not by USD but by facebook shares. We will be able to invest in facebook on binance using eth/bitcoin/usdt or even $ in future. What about tokenizing whole NYSE, german DAX, NIKKEI, everything ... even polish WIG (all stocks, indeks, materials etc). Stock by stock. We will be able to invest in every asset by buying simple token on crypto exchange by univesal currency - bitcoin.

Some services have tried to simulate that using crypto-backed contract for difference (CFD) schemes. Unfortunately, you need to be a licensed broker-dealer to do it legally. 1Broker got shut down by the SEC a few months ago for letting people bet on stocks with BTC collateral.

I think we'll see what you're talking about in the next 5-10 years: sanctioned equity tokenization where licensed broker-dealers are selling tokens to investors instead of fly-by-night altcoin exchanges. I think that was Circle's plan when they acquired Poloniex.

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