Ledger Nano X - new mobile focused hardware wallet

[gentlemand]

https://www.coindesk.com/ledger-crypto-wallet-goes-mobile-with-bluetooth-ready-nano-x

This hasn't had a full launch yet but here are some details - mobile focused with Bluetooth, space for 100 coins, larger screen, price drop for the nano s.

What's the opinion on Bluetooth for this? Will you be tempted to upgrade?

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[TryNinja]

https://www.coindesk.com/ledger-crypto-wallet-goes-mobile-with-bluetooth-ready-nano-x

This hasn't had a full launch yet but here are some details - mobile focused with Bluetooth, space for 100 coins, larger screen, price drop for the nano s.

What's the opinion on Bluetooth for this? Will you be tempted to upgrade?

I only store BTC and a few coins (sometimes) in my Nano S. So, it's probably going to be a no for me.

All I want to know is if this mobile app is going to be exclusive for the new device or if that's the new app that they promised back when they were developing the Ledger Live dashboard (and if it's going to work with the Ledger Nano S).

[NeuroticFish]

Sounds expensive, especially it can stores up to 100 crypto assets (unless they found cheaper way to have bigger secure storage).

From what I see Ledger Nano X can be preordered at about 120 EUR.
On the other hand Ledger Nano S at some 60 EUR sounds much better for me.

I'd rather see them focus fixing recently found security vulnerable or enable Tor/VPN user to use Ledger Live.

+1

[bitmover]

The only Altcoins I want to seeing my ledger nano are the forks, so I can dump them easily.
They should focus in a easier system to recover them, instead of adding shitcoins.

Forks are really an interesting way to increase your bitcoin holdings, if you sell them fast enough

[asche]

space for 100 coins, larger screen, price drop for the nano s.

It's not about space.

You can already use way more than 100 coins in Nano S.

The main difference is you can use the APPS needed for it in the ledger at the SAME time.

it's mostly about storage capacity, nothing else.

Don't need bluetooth, will stick with my cheap S.

They will also lower the price of the S once the X is produced/sold.

Preorders start a 119€.

[asche]

From what I see Ledger Nano X can be preordered at about 120 EUR.
On the other hand Ledger Nano S at some 60 EUR sounds much better for me.

69€ isn't it?

Bought mine for 49€ during black friday sale.

What will be very interesting, and what I didn't find any information about is what kind of battery will be fitted.

CR2032? Or something rechargeable. Also will it affect the device's durability? How often does a phone stop working because of it's battery long before the warranty is over?

[NeuroticFish]

69€ isn't it?
Bought mine for 49€ during black friday sale.

It shows for me 279,00 RON with VAT and all. That's, according to google, 59.82 EUR. So 60, not 69. Still you got a better deal

What will be very interesting, and what I didn't find any information about is what kind of battery will be fitted.
CR2032? Or something rechargeable. Also will it affect the device's durability? How often does a phone stop working because of it's battery long before the warranty is over?

It would be silly without rechargeable battery, the Bluetooth connection may be energy consuming... So I did some research for you and here we are:

Ledger Nano X has a 100 mAh battery. The device will last several hours in use and a few months when idle on a full charge. The battery can be easily recharged by connecting the USB-C port to the USB port of a laptop or desktop computer with the cable that's included. The battery cannot be replaced.

[asche]

It would be silly without rechargeable battery, the Bluetooth connection may be energy consuming... So I did some research for you and here we are:

Ledger Nano X has a 100 mAh battery. The device will last several hours in use and a few months when idle on a full charge. The battery can be easily recharged by connecting the USB-C port to the USB port of a laptop or desktop computer with the cable that's included. The battery cannot be replaced.

Thank you You'd be surprised tho. I use several bluetooth LE devices powered by CR2032. Most of them a very simple (Heart Rate Monitor and so on) but the amount they send over Bluetooth isn't much bigger than the one the wallet has to.

I think the issue is more the power needed for actually encrypting/signing. Anything mathematic anyway

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

[Rath_]

Honestly, 119 euro isn't really that much. I thought it would be somewhere around 150 euro. I bought my Ledger Nano S for 100 euro but I quickly got tired of missing transactions (due to enormous load on Ledger servers back then) and decided to sell it to a friend. Has anyone pre-ordered it yet? How does Ledger Live work in comparison to the deprecated Chrome app? Does it perform better?

All I want to know is if this mobile app is going to be exclusive for the new device or if that's the new app that they promised back when they were developing the Ledger Live dashboard (and if it's going to work with the Ledger Nano S).

Fortunately, Ledger mobile app will be also compatible with older models (Ledger Nano S and Blue). Source:

Android users will be able to use the On-The-Go cable kit to connect their Ledger Nano S or Ledger Blue to their smartphone. This functionality will later be added as a software update to the Ledger Live mobile app. iPhone users are out of luck due to restrictions of the iPhone's Lightning port.

[bitmover]

Honestly, 119 euro isn't really that much. I thought it would be somewhere around 150 euro. I bought my Ledger Nano S for 100 euro but I quickly got tired of missing transactions (due to enormous load on Ledger servers back then) and decided to sell it to a friend. Has anyone pre-ordered it yet? How does Ledger Live work in comparison to the deprecated Chrome app? Does it perform better?

I never had this kind of problem. What would be "missing transaction"?
You can always use Electrum with your ledger nano. It works perfectly and gives you all control over your coins  an average user needs

[TryNinja]

Android users will be able to use the On-The-Go cable kit to connect their Ledger Nano S or Ledger Blue to their smartphone. This functionality will later be added as a software update to the Ledger Live mobile app. iPhone users are out of luck due to restrictions of the iPhone's Lightning port.

RIP. I've just got a new iPhone.

I was kinda excited to use it in my mobile app (just to check it out, cuz it looks dope). Maybe I get a Nano X in the future because of the Bluetooth or just buy an old Android phone to play around with it.

[Rath_]

I never had this kind of problem. What would be "missing transaction"?
You can always use Electrum with your ledger nano. It works perfectly and gives you all control over your coins  an average user needs

Some of my transactions would not show up or it would take ages for the Chrome app to load (certainly not because of my PC). I was aware of Ledger support in Electrum but I was disappointed with the provided software.

Maybe I get a Nano X in the future because of the Bluetooth or just buy an old Android phone to play around with it.

Carrying a separate phone only for Ledger would be pretty inconvenient. For how long have you had your Ledger Nano S?

[bitmover]

I never had this kind of problem. What would be "missing transaction"?
You can always use Electrum with your ledger nano. It works perfectly and gives you all control over your coins  an average user needs

Some of my transactions would not show up or it would take ages for the Chrome app to load (certainly not because of my PC). I was aware of Ledger support in Electrum but I was disappointed with the provided software.

The chrome app was really bad. I never used it, always used Electrum. You can also check balances on blockers, which I think are much more reliable.

Anyway it's much safer to use a hardware Wallet, even if the software UI is terrible..

[Tramirostronix]

I don't see the point of changing when  you have a ledger nano and I'm not a big fan of bluetooth for everything .. so without me 

[LTU_btc]

Interesting news. Managing of crypto assets on Ledger for some people probably will be more convenient using Bluetooth than connecting Ledger to PC. Especially, if you need to do it often. And €119 is optimal price for new device with new features. It's also great to hear that they are planning to reduce price of Nano S. Even now, €59 with VAT is very nice price. So, this wallet soon will become more affordable.
Now I'm not planning to upgrade to Nano X, but maybe later. I'm still happy with my Nano S.

Honestly, 119 euro isn't really that much. I thought it would be somewhere around 150 euro. I bought my Ledger Nano S for 100 euro but I quickly got tired of missing transactions (due to enormous load on Ledger servers back then) and decided to sell it to a friend. Has anyone pre-ordered it yet? How does Ledger Live work in comparison to the deprecated Chrome app? Does it perform better?

I don't have much experience with Chrome better, but I don't have complaints about Ledger Live, it performs well for me. Main disadvantage of it - still many currencies aren't supported on Ledger Live.

[gentlemand]

space for 100 coins, larger screen, price drop for the nano s.

It's not about space.

You can already use way more than 100 coins in Nano S.

The main difference is you can use the APPS needed for it in the ledger at the SAME time.

Well yes. That's what I meant, though perusing the list of coins they accommodate was largely a journey into total mystery.

It's still the bluetooth I'm wondering about the most. I presume they'll have explored every possible route for exploitation. There must be others waiting to be dug out.

[asche]

It's still the bluetooth I'm wondering about the most. I presume they'll have explored every possible route for exploitation. There must be others waiting to be dug out.

Makes no difference really. It is an interface just as usb is.
You still have to confirm physically on screen every signature.

Bluetooth/USB/Serial/whatever, the major security happens after that point. Not on that point.

[ranman09]

69€ isn't it?
Bought mine for 49€ during black friday sale.

It shows for me 279,00 RON with VAT and all. That's, according to google, 59.82 EUR. So 60, not 69. Still you got a better deal

That's what's good in this deal. You will get the Ledger Nano S cheaper. I don't like new concepts and upgrade now, well maybe after a few months when there are good reviews, because of the last Electrum incident on updates.

Though it would be nice to have Ledger Nano S boot without cable on it.

[Rath_]

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

I agree with asche. Even after thinking, i only can think the possibility 3rd party get transaction data which transmitted over bluetooth which could break user's privacy, but it's not realistic scenario.

Ledger claims that data sent over Bluetooth is end-to-end encrypted. What about man-in-the-middle attacks?

[asche]

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

I'm not. You are actually giving me some hope.

Will buy some cheap ass usb-c otg cable and try.

[TryNinja]

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

That's correct. I've tried once and it worked with the OTG cable that came with my old phone (a Samsung Galaxy S8+).

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

[asche]

Are sure about that? I am quite sure that I managed to get it to work by simply using USB to micro-usb converter provided by Samsung with the original cable. The same goes for Trezor. It works perfectly fine.

That's correct. I've tried once and it worked with the OTG cable that came with my old phone (a Samsung Galaxy S8+).

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

Holy tits that's good news

[HCP]

Edit: Sad thing is the OTG cable for the Ledger S is f**-ing expensive. 30% of the price of the device.
And i read somewhere a generic OTG cable won't work.

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

Yeah, can confirm 100% that any OTG cable should work... Ledger isn't doing anything "proprietary" here... I have a cheap-as OTG micro-usb to USB socket adapter that I got from AliExpress for $1 (incl shipping)... and a very short USB-A to micro-usb cable.

Have used successfully with Ledger (and Trezor) and Mycelium, on an old S5. Haven't tried with my newer phone which is USB-C, as I'm still waiting for AliExpress to deliver the adapter



As for the Ledger X... I don't need storage space for 100 coin apps... and I don't really need BT support either, think I'll stick with the Nano S (and Trezor One) for now

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm pretty disappointed, to be perfectly honest.

The big selling points seem to be Bluetooth and 100 apps at once. No one needs 100 apps at once. Hardly anyone needs more than 10 apps at once. If you need more than 10, then I can guarantee you are holding some utter trash coins. I have never used Bluetooth in my life, and don't plan to start now. I also wouldn't take a hardware wallet out in public with me to use with a phone - why make yourself a target like that? Regardless, it seems the Nano S will work with the Android app via a USB cable.

The only plus side I can see is maybe I'll be able to get another Nano S at a cheaper price.

[asche]

I also wouldn't take a hardware wallet out in public with me to use with a phone - why make yourself a target like that?

No, but at work or during your travels is an option.

Just take it out at your desk or in your hotel room.
Allows you to travel without a need for a laptop.

[Lucius]

I'm pretty disappointed, to be perfectly honest.

The big selling points seem to be Bluetooth and 100 apps at once. No one needs 100 apps at once. Hardly anyone needs more than 10 apps at once. If you need more than 10, then I can guarantee you are holding some utter trash coins. I have never used Bluetooth in my life, and don't plan to start now. I also wouldn't take a hardware wallet out in public with me to use with a phone - why make yourself a target like that? Regardless, it seems the Nano S will work with the Android app via a USB cable.

The only plus side I can see is maybe I'll be able to get another Nano S at a cheaper price.

I fully agree with you, except Bluetooth and the options that the user is using up to 100 apps at same time, only thing changed here is X in name instead of S. Also using Bluetooth can only be one more of the vectors of the attack, even if they use end-to-end encryption. Personally, I see this just as option to trick users in a way X is more mobile friendly, and we know S can also be used with mobile device+OTG cable.

Perhaps some people will see the benefits in this new HW, and and they will agree to pay for it, but for me 120 euro is to much for what is offered.

[asche]

I fully agree with you, except Bluetooth and the options that the user is using up to 100 apps at same time, only thing changed here is X in name instead of S. Also using Bluetooth can only be one more of the vectors of the attack, even if they use end-to-end encryption. Personally, I see this just as option to trick users in a way X is more mobile friendly, and we know S can also be used with mobile device+OTG cable.

Perhaps some people will see the benefits in this new HW, and and they will agree to pay for it, but for me 120 euro is to much for what is offered.

Great marketing indeed. Same chip, more storage, add bluetooth chip, change S to X. Profit.

[BitHodler]

The big selling points seem to be Bluetooth and 100 apps at once. No one needs 100 apps at once. Hardly anyone needs more than 10 apps at once. If you need more than 10, then I can guarantee you are holding some utter trash coins.

It all comes down to shitcoins for sure. People have figured out that downloading random mobile wallet clients isn't the best thing to do with how many fake shitcoin clients there are available. It's easy to go wrong here.

The best solution is to buy a hardware wallet that's 1000x more secure than any other mobile wallet client, and at the same time doesn't require you to download untested software from sources you never heard of.

The only plus side I can see is maybe I'll be able to get another Nano S at a cheaper price.

Exactly. I ordered myself 2 more yesterday when I saw the news about the nano x come out. It wouldn't surprise me if we get somewhat of a run on these older models, so be quick with ordering.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It all comes down to shitcoins for sure. People have figured out that downloading random mobile wallet clients isn't the best thing to do with how many fake shitcoin clients there are available. It's easy to go wrong here.

It's where the next wave of buyers for Ledger comes from, I suppose. Most serious bitcoin users already own a hardware wallet or two - sure, some will upgrade to the new model, but many won't. They need to get a new wave of buyers interested, and I guess the best way to do that is to support the 100s of trash coins that are flooding the market. They are paving the way for skyrocketing sales when the next bull run arrives. It is good business sense, but as someone with zero interest in all these trash alts, I can't say I'm not disappointed.

[Kenni88]

Bought a backup Nano S in the 50% off sale in December  Still happy with the S, but i'll give the X another 6 months before I'll buy, hopefully all bugs and vulnerability are tested further, especially the bluetooth feature.

[asche]

Exactly. I ordered myself 2 more yesterday when I saw the news about the nano x come out. It wouldn't surprise me if we get somewhat of a run on these older models, so be quick with ordering.

Ledger officially said the price would drop when X becomes available. So patience is the key if you want to get your hands on cheap wallets.

[activescott]

I use my Nano S quite a bit for Eth, Tokens, and Bitcoin and it works great. The X seems to make sense for wireless and more space for apps. However, with an S in hand, and usually using it at my desktop the wireless aspect isn't a big deal. The increased space makes sense, as I can only put like 3-5 apps on my S, but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal. So I'm probably going to get an X at some point, but not right away since my S is working great.

[Lucius]

The increased space makes sense, as I can only put like 3-5 apps on my S, but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal.

When Ledger released last firmware we got the possibility to install up to 18 apps at the same time, but such a number could have been achieved only if you install apps for coins based on BTC or ETH, because Ledger say they are small and user can stacking them.

I just check Ledger support page and now they claim that the number of apps that can be installed at the same time is 24, but only Bitcoin based apps. It is true that in other cases that number is from 3-5 depending of what coin app you use.

Also if user install apps in alphabetical order speed of Nano S booting will be faster.

Manage device storage - Nano S

[o_e_l_e_o]

but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal.

Pretty much. You can change apps in about 20 seconds, so even if you are regularly using several different one, a price tag of 120€ hardly seems worth it to save yourself a few seconds.

I'm sure I read somewhere about an update to Ledger Live being in the works, where if you tried to open a coin that wasn't installed, it would automatically uninstall other apps and install the app you need. But for the life of me I can't find anything about that now - maybe I'm making it up. Still, would be a nice feature.

[Tramirostronix]

but since it is pretty quick and easy to swap out apps when I need to (without changing keys or loosing any transaction info) it isn't that big of a deal.

Pretty much. You can change apps in about 20 seconds, so even if you are regularly using several different one, a price tag of 120€ hardly seems worth it to save yourself a few seconds.

I'm sure I read somewhere about an update to Ledger Live being in the works, where if you tried to open a coin that wasn't installed, it would automatically uninstall other apps and install the app you need. But for the life of me I can't find anything about that now - maybe I'm making it up. Still, would be a nice feature.

it will be a good solution for ledger live, but I don't use it because when I bought my ledger, it was only with the old interface... so 

[NeuroticFish]

There is no difference between the OTG cable sold by Ledger and any regular one.

Since I got a Ledger too now, I can confirm that it works perfectly without the original OTG cable. I've used a small adapter from USB to OTG MicroUSB that costs under 1$.
I think that's the easiest approach, since I also use Ledger's cable from the initial package.

Pictures with the adapter:

[asche]

Since I got a Ledger too now, I can confirm that it works perfectly without the original OTG cable. I've used a small adapter from USB to OTG MicroUSB that costs under 1$.
I think that's the easiest approach, since I also use Ledger's cable from the initial package.

I also bought a USB cable. Waiting for Ledger Live for android now

Any cool ERC20 wallet that would be compatible on smartphone and show the same addresses than Metamask does?

[Rath_]

Any cool ERC20 wallet that would be compatible on smartphone and show the same addresses than Metamask does?

I don't think if there is any Android Ethereum wallet which supports Ledger Nano S. The only app worth taking look at, in my opinion, is WallETH if you are using an Android device. Unfortunately, it looks like it supports only TREZOR devices.

[asche]

Fingers crossed ledger live will support erc20 then...
thanks for the input BitCryptex

[TryNinja]

Looks like the shipping of the new Ledger Nano X begins in 20 days.

From Reddit:



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/aw9nec/received_ledger_nano_x_shipping_update_march_20th/

[whotookmycrypto]

Certainly won't be upgrading. Can't understand the need for a mobile-focused hardware wallet. Are users really dying to spend crypto on the go? Believe most users would struggle to even find places to spend crypto. 

[NeuroticFish]

Certainly won't be upgrading. Can't understand the need for a mobile-focused hardware wallet. Are users really dying to spend crypto on the go? Believe most users would struggle to even find places to spend crypto. 

In theory you spend money more often when you are not home. So the idea is not bad.
Still, Ledger Nano S is just fine for spending from mobile too, so indeed, I don't see a good reason for buying unless one has a lot of altcoins he wants to use with Ledger (Nano X boasts 10x bigger storage than Nano S).

[Rath_]

Has anyone received their Ledger Nano X yet? Ledger was supposed to ship their new model with an extra Ledger Nano S as a compensation for the delay. I don't think that the limited edition was worth pre-ordering.

[Lucius]

BitCryptex, one user is report that he received Nano X in Friday, you obviously missed that post in other thread. I did not know that Ledger would send a free Nano S as a compensation for late delivery, and user that report delivery did not mention he had received Nano S.

What is known offer from Ledger is Nano X and Nano S with 50% discount, they sell this as Ledger Backup Pack.

[Rath_]

I did not know that Ledger would send a free Nano S as a compensation for late delivery, and user that report delivery did not mention he had received Nano S.

Anyone who pre-ordered the device before the delay was announced (~20th March), was supposed to receive a free Ledger Nano S. There might have been a 4 month delay if they had to make a new mold which is used for producing plastic parts. Thank you for the link.

[DireWolfM14]

I ordered the bundle (1 each: Nano X, and S) just last week.  I have not received them and still no word on shipping yet.


Off Topic:
For some reason manufacturers of plastic injection molds are backed up for months and months.  One of our better suppliers is almost two years out for new orders.  Oddly, lead time for injection molding machines hasn't changed much in recent months, I'm afraid what ever factor has affected mold makers hasn't hit the machine makers yet.

[HCP]

Has anyone received their Ledger Nano X yet? Ledger was supposed to ship their new model with an extra Ledger Nano S as a compensation for the delay. I don't think that the limited edition was worth pre-ordering.

Not sure about anyone here... a few over at r/ledgerwallet showing off their bundles:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpx6kc/look_what_came_in_the_mail_today_as_promised_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpqqu9/they_finally_came_today/

And others that have at least received the Nano X:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bppk96/finally_arrived/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpo58r/i_got_it_so_great/

There are also unboxings and reviews and a few complaints about the Nano X being unresponsive and stuck on Bootloader

[asche]

Not sure about anyone here... a few over at r/ledgerwallet showing off their bundles:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpx6kc/look_what_came_in_the_mail_today_as_promised_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpqqu9/they_finally_came_today/

If this concerns a lot of people we might see some discounted S's for sale around here

[roc-noc]

I received my Ledger X on Friday May 17th.  I also received the free Ledger S which I didn't mention in the other thread and it sits here unopened.  Not really worth selling.  I already had a Ledger S from a year ago.  I'll probably give them to friends or family.

I wanted the Ledger X for more memory so I could load more than 3 coins.  I am currently hodling 4 different coins.  My Ledger X works great.  I like it better than the Ledger S.

 

[DireWolfM14]

Not sure about anyone here... a few over at r/ledgerwallet showing off their bundles:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpx6kc/look_what_came_in_the_mail_today_as_promised_a/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/bpqqu9/they_finally_came_today/

If this concerns a lot of people we might see some discounted S's for sale around here

I expect Ledger will discount the model S quite a bit this coming holiday season.  I wouldn't mind picking up a couple as gifts for my kids.

I just received the shipping notice for my "bundle" order, they're due to arrive on Tuesday. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

I expect Ledger will discount the model S quite a bit this coming holiday season.

I expect so too, and I certainly hope so. I want to pick up another one to duplicate my main wallets to to serve as an extra back up, and perhaps another one as a gift for a friend who I've as of yet been unable to convince to stop using Coinbase to store his bitcoin.

In past years they've always done Black Friday and Christmas sales, but I don't want to wait that long. I'm hoping for some sort of summer weekend flash sale or similar.

[DireWolfM14]

a gift for a friend who I've as of yet been unable to convince to stop using Coinbase to store his bitcoin.

I have a friend like that too, and that's a great idea.  Coinbase has there "vault" cold storage service they offer, with multiple signatures required to move funds, but still.  If the seed backup isn't etched on a chunk of stainless steel and safely tucked away in the fire-resistant document bag in my fire-resistant gun safe, I have a hard time sleeping at night. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

I've never used Coinbase myself, but last I read about them they were offering users the ability to back up their private keys to Google or Apple's cloud storage. I don't understand how anyone who has been involved in crypto for more than a week would want to use that and not understand how awful an idea it is.

In terms of your fire proof safe, the easiest alternative to that is off site back ups. The chances of two separate backups burning down simultaneously is very small.

[Rath_]

Coinbase has there "vault" cold storage service they offer, with multiple signatures required to move funds

Wasn't Ledger supposed to implement something similar in a software update? I might have confused it with Trezor.

I've never used Coinbase myself, but last I read about them they were offering users the ability to back up their private keys to Google or Apple's cloud storage. I don't understand how anyone who has been involved in crypto for more than a week would want to use that and not understand how awful an idea it is.

"Convenience" and low-cost are the reasons why people decide to use services like Coinbase and their weird features. Not to mention that some people buy crypto without educating themselves properly or after being misinformed by other people.

[DireWolfM14]

I've never used Coinbase myself, but last I read about them they were offering users the ability to back up their private keys to Google or Apple's cloud storage. I don't understand how anyone who has been involved in crypto for more than a week would want to use that and not understand how awful an idea it is.

It is strange they offer that option, and it is laughable.  I've used Coinbase to convert fiat into bitcoin, but that's about it.  If I do store anything on their platform it's for a couple of days max, so they can do what ever they want with my "private" keys.

Wasn't Ledger supposed to implement something similar in a software update? I might have confused it with Trezor.

I know blockchain.com has a specific Ledger built HW wallet that can be used in conjunction with their web wallet.  That's a brilliant idea, more web wallet services should offer such an option.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I know blockchain.com has a specific Ledger built HW wallet that can be used in conjunction with their web wallet.

This is another thing that I don't understand. It's called "Lockbox". It can only be used with blockchain.com, and won't work with Ledger Live, Electrum, or any other wallet. It doesn't support SegWit or most altcoins. Instead of integrating support for actual Ledger and Trezor devices, they rebrand a Ledger device, make it less functional, and sell it for a higher price.

Now that you can use Ledger Nano X with your phone, or Nano S with android phones, the only benefit of a web wallet of being able to access it anywhere is gone. There is literally no reason to use one.